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What is wrong with... <strong>Attack of the Clones</strong>? - a general discussion thread

Mavimao said:

The real problem with AOTC is that the idea is sound but is ruined by the execution.

Harmy pointed out that the synopsis of this film is probably the strongest in the three prequels: there’s been an assasination attempt on a senator and one jedi is sent to protect her and one is sent to investigate. The jedi and the senator fall in love (which is forbidden) and the other jedi discovers a gigantic military build up operation.

There’s a great story here! But George’s weaknesses in storytelling and direction hamper the whole thing and the execution is lousy.

I do think one shouldn’t nitpick too much with this movie, but unlike other films with glaring plothole issues that you can forgive, AOTC is so boring and badly acted that these plotholes just stare at you like a thousand deer in headlights.

Granted, much of the dialogue between Anakin and Padmé should have been rewritten. However, the story itself was profound, regardless of the execution.

Also, I never watch a Star Wars movie for compelling dialogue or character development. As long as the story is logically coherent, the action sequences are thrilling, the graphics are brilliant, and the film score is fantastic, I am content with the film.

If I needed to watch a film with compelling dialogue and character development, I would watch not watch a Star Wars film.

What is wrong with... <strong>Attack of the Clones</strong>? - a general discussion thread

Smithers said:

John Doom said:
😄 He was hilarious in Italian. Just before R2 removes 3PO’s head, while in English (I think) he just says “My neck!” or “My head”, in Italian he says “If you keep pulling me like this, I’M GOING TO LOSE MY MIND!”, which is hilarious because of the pun (R2 is in fact pulling his mind/head) and the fact he’s not acting like his usual self, as a well composed person 😄

I wish George Lucas actually wrote that

That would have been funny.

What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>

Lord Haseo said:

No, you should respect that somone has their own opinion but the opinion it’s self…no. If someone told me that in their opinion minorities were inferior or that pedophiles or serial killers weren’t evil (I know these are extreme examples) I would not respect those opinions at all.

An opinion about an artistic work is different from an opinion about morality . . . .

What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>

The opening crawl should have explained why the Republic lacked a standing army capable of defeating the First Order and had to covertly fund the Resistance.

Poe Dameron should have died in the crash landing on Jakku.

I dislike the idea of Han Solo losing the Millenium Falcon for so many years and then appearing out of nowhere as a Deus Ex Machina.

Han Solo never thought he should put a tracking device on the Millenium Falcon in case it was lost or stolen?

The script would have improved if Rey had stolen The Millenium Falcon from Han Solo during her escape from Jakku and Han Solo had tracked her down to retrieve his ship. . . .

There should be no superweapon. The goal of the story is to find Luke Skywalker. Inserting a third Death Star is irrelevant to the story.

Finn should not have been a janitor.

Rey should not have been able to perform a Jedi mind trick. The other characters should have had to rescue her.

Kylo Ren should not have taken off his mask in front of Rey.

Captain Phasma should not have disabled the shields without a fight. . . .

Snoke should have a more menacing name.

Why did C-3PO have a red arm? This is never explained. . . .

Kylo Ren should have defeated Rey, who should have barely survived. . . .

What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>

Smoking Lizard said:

Considering the subject of this thread, I am going to assume I can post what I do not like about TFA without being accused of being a “troll.” I just caved and saw the movie yesterday. Here’s what I did not like:

  • Von Sydow’s character required someone to travel IN PERSON to Jakku to receive the map, rather than just transmit it encrypted to Leia.

  • Instead of covertly sending an intelligence officer under deep cover to retrieve the map, Leia sends a pilot. In uniform. In an X-Wing.

  • On Jakku, Kylo Ren and the rest of the First Order round up the villagers. Instead of saying to Poe, “Tell us where the map is or we’ll kill these villagers,” Ren orders Poe onto his ship and then orders the villagers murdered for the sport of it.

  • The blaster bolt suspended midflight and hanging in the air until Ren “coolly” released it.

  • Kylo Ren and the First Order round up the innocent villagers and are setting the village on fire. When Kylo comes to question Poe, Poe deems it appropriate to crack jokes at Ren. No, Poe, don’t, you know, maybe BEG for mercy for the villagers and insist that they’re innocent. Nah. Crack jokes instead.

  • So Kylo Ren is Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader’s grandson? Kylo Ren, in private, “prays” to his grandfather to “show him the way” to resist the pull of the light side of the Force. Um, hello? Anakin Skywalker is probably the WORST person to ask for advice on how to resist the light side?

  • Anakin Skywalker is Kylo Ren’s grandfather, yes? So Anakin, a redeemed Jedi, couldn’t appear as a Force ghost to Ren years earlier as Ren was turning to the dark side and, you know, maybe try to talk him out of it? You know, appear to Ren as a ghost the way Obi Wan did multiple times to Luke?

  • If you’re saying right now, “Well, maybe he did and Ren resisted him!” Why, then, is Ren asking Vader for advice on how to resist the light?

  • So Finn helps Poe escape. Finn, by the way, is a janitor (yes…JANITOR!) stormtrooper who was abducted as an infant by the First Order and raised to be a stormtrooper. Because raising soldiers for your evil cause from infancy is easier than just using recruits. I mean, yeah, recruits worked for the Nazis, the Khmer Rouge, imperial Japan, Al Qaeda, Stalin, and ISIS but they would NEVER work for the First Order. Abducting babies is much easier.

  • OK, so we escape. Suddenly the new and improved First Order TIE fighters are two seaters.

  • The TIE fighter gets shot and then crash lands on Jakku. CONVENIENTLY close to Rey’s settlement.

  • The TIE fighter CONVENIENTLY gets eaten up by the desert. Because, yeah, the desert eats stuff all the time.

  • But there’s other crashed junk all over the place that hasn’t been swallowed up by the desert.

  • Finn runs to the settlement, where he conveniently bumps into Rey who conveniently has found BB-8.

  • So BB-8 tells Rey that that random dude is wearing my master’s jacket – or, well, a jacket that looks just like my master’s jacket. So Rey runs over and smashes him in the face with a blunt weapon.

  • Hey! Now we’re friends!

  • Oh no! The First Order is on to us! They’re chasing us!

  • Let’s run for that “Quad Jumper”! But we need a pilot? Don’t worry! I can PILOT ANYTHING! Including the Millenium Falcon!

  • How did you learn to fly the Millenium Falcon? I found a flight simulator! And the flight simulator taught me how to fly that type of craft!

  • Oh, no! The Quad Jumper was blown up by the First Order! Don’t worry! The Millenium Falcon is right over there! Yes, in this entire wide galaxy, how entirely fortunate that Kylo Ren’s father’s ship just happens to be right here!

  • And the door is open! Gee, I wonder why the pawn broker had enough sense to throw a tarp over the MF but not bother to close the door?

  • Ah, well! Let’s run inside! Won’t the First Order blow this ship up, too? Nah.

  • OK, I just started up the Millenium Falcon! Wait! Doesn’t it have some kind of security on the starter? After all, even my 1977 Ford Pinto required a KEY TO START! Nah! I just started it up!

  • Damn! Look at me! I can fly the MF at least as well as Han Solo…even though I never had before. IT’S THE FORCE! Yes, every other Jedi alive – including Anakin – had to be TRAINED to use the Force, but NOT REY! SHE’S SPECIAL!

  • OK, we’re in space now! We ditched the First Order somehow…but oh no! We’re captured…by Han Solo!

  • Who just so happened to be in the neighborhood, actively looking for the Millenium Falcon…at the age of 70 something years old. Sure he was a general once who led the Rebellion to maybe the greatest victory in the history of the galaxy, but now, at the age of 70, he’s back to being a smuggler.

  • OK, now Han is going to take Rey to his Force-sensitive mentor. But Han! Back in the 1977 movie, you insisted you didn’t believe in the Force! Um, oh yeah. Forgot about that.

  • Gotta love the trite, “I can see who you are by looking into your eyes,” bullsh*t. I mean, because that’s SOOOOOOO original.

  • Also gotta love that crawling across the table and switching the lenses in the goggles to amp up the magnification or whatever. Yeah, that wasn’t contrived.

  • Oh, hey! By the way, I’m Maz and I somehow have Luke Skywalker’s lighsaber in a wooden box downstairs in my dungeon! How did I get it, you ask? Oh, that’s a story for another time (TRANSLATION: The writers don’t know yet, either).

  • Somehow Rey just stumbles on the box with the lightsaber. I know, I know – the Force. Uh huh.

  • So now Finn has the lightsaber and Rey is randomly running around the woods because she’s upset or something.

  • Oh, hey! Look at that! We can see the blast rays from the Starkiller base, which is light years away!

  • The Starkiller base is able to blow up planets many light years away because, wait for it, its blasts travel through hyperspace to arrive at their targets! Not making this up.

  • Oh no! The First Order found us here on Maz’s planet! Oh no! Rey is captured and Ren doesn’t give a rat’s butt about BB-8 and the ACTUAL MAP anymore because he can torture the map out of Rey’s brain. Because, yeah, her cursory look at the map somehow enabled it to be perfectly imprinted on her brain.

  • Oh, yeah! What about Poe Dameron? Why did he just leave Jakku without finding BB-8 first? It was a critical mission AND HE JUST LEFT?! When he got back to the Resistance planet did Leia come up and say, “Well?” and he said, “Well, what?” and she said, “Did you get the message I sent you to retrieve?” and he said, “Oh, snap!”?!

  • So Rey is captured. She hasn’t figured out that she can already use the Force yet. Give it about 10 minutes and she’ll have it figured out.

  • So Ren’s secret darkest fear is that he will never be as powerful as Darth Vader? Puh-lease.

  • Han and Leia repeatedly refer to Ren stiltedly as “our son” and not simply his name.

  • Leia’s stilted dialog: “It was Snoke who seduced our son to the Dark Side of the Force.” Ugh.

  • Oh, yeah…and Snoke is a laughably bad CGI character. One that looks a hell of a lot like the trite old “big head alien” from alien abduction movies.

  • Yeah. Snoke is a bad CGI character. And he’s, like, one of the two main villains. Read that again. A main villain is a CGI character. Jar Jar, anyone?

  • And the command center of the First Order doesn’t look very military. Looked more like a Comcast customer care call center. In TESB, Lucas hired very experienced British stage actors to play the roles of the key imperials – Ozzel, Piett, Needa, and Veers – and they delivered a very “professional military” performance. These guys? Not so scary.

  • Temper tantrums make someone a bad guy! Get bad news? Tear sht up with your stupid lightsaber! A key prisoner escaped? Tear sht up with your stupid lightsaber!

  • Why the hell is Ren wearing a mask, anyway? Because it’s cool? Does he sleep with it, too?

  • So the galaxy has gone to hell in a hand basket…and Luke has gone into hiding? Never mind, you know, maybe helping the Resistance, you know, RESIST?

  • So in 30 years Luke trained ZERO new Jedis? Ren somehow killed them ALL?!

  • But failed to kill Luke?

  • Hey, we have to blow up the Starkiller base! No problem. We’ll just land on the planet and blow up the shields! But how will we get through the shields to begin with? We’ll just come out of hyperspace inside the shields? Why hadn’t we ever done that before? Um…because!

  • How many times is the MF going to scrape along the ground, scrape across rocks, and fly through trees without, you know, blowing up?

  • Oh, hey, now we’re going to crash. No, not really. We’ll just skid along the snowy surface. And…wait for it…wait for it! Yep! Here comes a cliff! And wait for it…wait for it…errrt! We stopped just at the edge of the cliff! Never saw that before!

  • We have X-Wing pilots who don’t look like military pilots. The female pilot especially…not because she’s female, but because she carries herself as a college student enjoying a theme park ride.

  • Rey kills Han. Thank God. Not because it was a good story element, but because at least it spares us from having to see an 80 year old Han Solo in the future.

  • We have C3PO literally calling play-by-play during the battle!

  • Hurray! We blew up the Starkiller base! How? Who cares?! An oscillator or something. Who cares?! It’s blown up! Yay!

  • And even better! Somehow all the main characters somehow manage to escape the planet blowing up! Sure is a good thing the First Order was somehow able to pick up Ren from the surface and get him off the planet before the planet blew up! How wonderfully convenient!

  • Oh, by the way, Ren got his butt kicked by Rey…who just suddenly, out of nowhere, learned how to use the Force and a lightsaber. How convenient!

  • Oh! And why didn’t Rey just kill him?! Because a rift in the planet formed just at the right second! Phew! That was CLOSE! We almost lost our super “cool” villain!

  • Hey look at that! R2-D2 just woke up somehow. Maybe Luke woke him up or something. Because “Now is the right time. The time was not right before now…” Since when did Luke become so melodramatic?

  • We land on a planet…

  • …and bring Luke his lightsaber.

  • Roll credits. Thank God.

This X 1,000

The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **

SilverWook said:

The Clone army didn’t turn on the Republic, they wiped out those traitorous Jedi and the Republic was reordered into the Empire. 😉

Kylo had a bleeding wound from being shot by Chewie, so that evened the odds a tad.

Turning on the guardians of peace and justice for a thousand generations and ushering in an autocratic dictatorship sure sounds like turning on the Republic to me.

The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **

TV’s Frink said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

  1. Who gives a damn about the political specifics? Did the OT delve into these in any detail?

  2. If Kylo had defeated Rey, the whole mystic behind her character would have been lost. She, a light side user, not Kylo, is the successor to Anikan.

  3. More menacing? He killed his father in cold blood!

You’re debating TFA with someone who thinks AOTC is a great film.

Attack of the Clones is not a perfect film, but it is a decent film, unlike The Force Awakens.

The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

  1. Who gives a damn about the political specifics? Did the OT delve into these in any detail?

  2. If Kylo had defeated Rey, the whole mystic behind her character would have been lost. She, a light side user, not Kylo, is the successor to Anikan.

  3. More menacing? He killed his father in cold blood!

  1. Actually yes . . . the diplomatic mission to Alderaan, the stolen battle plans, the references to past wars, the story of the formation of the Empire, the dissolution of the Imperial Senate, the regional governors taking direct control of their star systems, ect.

  2. So light side Force users must win lightsaber duels every time or else the whole mystic behind their characters is lost? That makes absolutely no sense. Do you expect me to believe that Kylo Ren destroyed the New Jedi Order but lost to a girl with no lightsaber training?

  3. And it took him forever to do it. What a wimpy villain! I laughed during that scene. It was supposed to be poignant, but it was only pathetic.

And why would Kylo Ren seek to murder his father in the first place? What goal was his father obstructing?

My understanding is that Kylo Ren killed his father because something something dark side something something.

George Lucas should have killed off Han Solo in Return of the Jedi. He should have died in the fight to destroy the Empire. It would have completed his character transformation from a self-interested smuggler to a self-sacrificial war hero. Instead, in The Force Awakens Han Solo is still a smuggler who learned absolutely nothing from his adventures in the Original Trilogy. What a slap in the face.

Return of the Jedi - The Spence Final Cut (Released)

SpenceEdit said:

Hey everyone,

You guys don’t really know me over here, but I’m a faneditor named Spence. Some info on my Star Wars edits pops up over here from time to time. I have done Ep. II, III and VI, and my current projects are turning The Force Unleashed games into animated features and, coming more recently, a new and pretty extensive fanedit of Return of the Jedi.

I thought you all might be interested in hearing about it, so I’m going to put my cutlist over here. Also, over at's forums there’s a pretty extensive thread discussing it, with preview clips and more information.

Here’s what I originally wrote over there, with my cutlist included. Let me know what you think.

I’ve also been sending out some more extended test clips for people who are interested. I’d be happy to give you the link to those via pm, but you have to provide feedback!

I’m looking forward to getting more involved on this forum in the future!

Return of the Jedi is my least favorite star wars movie. 4 and 5 are great as is, and there’s prequel edits that make them work. Jedi has really never been right for me. I’ve tried to edit it twice, and neither of those satisfy me. Apparently, they didn’t satisfy much of anyone . By the way, I’m aware of the bad quality of my version 1, and it will not repeat here. Also, that’s why I did a version 2, so leave the poor first guy alone, will you?!

My quest has always been to figure out what that element of the film is that keeps it from succeeding. I assumed it was the ewoks, as I really dislike them, but its not. The biggest problem with the movie is the lack of tension.

During the entire battle on endor, there’s not a single moment where it feels as of Han and Leia will not succeed. The humor of the sequence, the cuteness of the ewoks, its just really hard to think the empire will kill all the Teddy bears and capture our heroes.

Their success is what Lando and the fleet are depending on. So if Han seems like he’ll obviously win, this feeling stretches to the fleet as well.

The only tense sequence is between Luke and Vader. Its the core or the story, and there are real moments of darkness and doubt within it. Except, since this whole sequence happens on the Death Star, it’s essentially meaningless, as regardless of what happened, they would’ve all been blown up anyway.

Having seen the new edit of phantom, Shadow of the Sith, I realized how rearranging the ending can really help with the tension. everything has to feel as if our heroes will all fail.

Basic concepts:

  • The set up for the movie is totally different, as per the new crawl. Luke’s been training with Yoda since shortly after ESB. Chewy was already captured when he and Lando went to Tattooine at the end of ESB, and Lando has managed to get under-cover inside the palace. Leia grows restless waiting for Luke to return, and goes to rescue Han herself.

  • Luke is forced to use a simpler plan, sending the droids in with his lightsaber, then going in himself to break everyone out. It clears up the original completely stupid and illogical plan.

  • No Boba Fett. He isn’t at Jabba’s. There’s really no reason for him to be there, and it gets rid of his silly death.

  • No Rancor. Our first action scene is Luke being a full on Jedi, and beginning is all build up to that.

  • Lots of trims to Han being an idiot. Removed all of his jealousy toward Luke. The love story was resolved in ESB, so his jealousy just makes him seem foolish.

  • Lots of trims to the Ewoks. They’re still likeable and kind of cute, but not over the top. you can kind of believe they succeed in their battle now, with the way it is cut.

  • The emperor’s throne room is moved to a big Star Destroyer instead of on the Death Star, so Luke’s battle still has meaning. This Star Destroyer does not blow up in the battle. Lots of establishing shots and additions to make this very clear.

  • The battle is totally reordered for pacing, making it appear that the rebellion is losing the battle up until after the emperor is killed.

  • We get the release of winning the battle, then go to Vader’s death, so the sequence never slows down. Because they were on the Death Star, the emotional beat with Vader had to happen before the Death Star explosion, but it totally ruins the pacing. Now, that doesn’t matter, because they aren’t on it.

  • New ending with a little more emotional resonance. The final shot of the movie is now Luke burning Vader’s body, bringing the whole saga full circle.

  • Some musical call backs to the prequels.

An exact cut list below, though there are too many little changes for me to list (or remember) all of them:

-ADDED new opening crawl. Title is still RETURN OF THE JEDI. (thanks to L8wrtr)

-MOVED Dagobah sequence to right after the first Death Star scene.

-CUT Yoda confirming Vader is Luke’s father.

-CUT Obi-Wan’s ghost visiting Luke on Dagobah.

-CUT Lapti Nek/ Musical sequence.

-CUT Boba Fett from every scene of the movie.

-CUT frog guy eating a rodent in in the Jabba’s palace wide shot.

-CUT Leia as Boussh handing Chewy over to Jabba.

-MOVED Liea freeing Han from carbonite to after Dagobah.

-ADDED Luke sensing his friends are in trouble when they get caught by Jabba, using shots from him feeling Kenobi’s presence on Dagobah.

-REPLACED all of Jabba’s subtitles, to give him more personality and help with my cuts.

-RECOLORED 3PO when Jabba catches Han/Leia, so he appears to be a different droid. In this chronology, he hasn’t arrived yet.

-CROPPED 3PO out of many shots in this sequence.

-ADDED shots of Luke flying away from Dagobah from ESB, making it appear that he is headed for Tattooine.

-MOVED Han and Chewy in the prison cell to after Luke leaves Dagobah.

-CUT Han being filled in by Chewy on what’s going on.

-MOVED Droids arrival to after prison cell scene.

-CUT 3PO’s dialogue about Lando and Chewy never returning.

-CUT Eye droid (IDroid?) At Jabba’s gate. 3PO knocks, begins to walk away, and the door opens.

-ADDED Leia chained up with Jabba during the scene with the droids.

-CUT/CROPPED any shots that show Leia not being there.

-CUT much of Luke’s message to get to point faster.

-CUT 3PO not knowing about Luke’s plan to give them to Jabba.

-CUT the end of the droid scene, ending it now with 3PO’s “We’re Doomed!”

-MOVED Emperor’s arrival at the Death Star to after the Droids in Jabba’s Palace.

-MOVED Luke’s arrival to right after Emperor Death Star scene.

-ADDED Day time establishing shot of Jabba’s before Luke arrives.

-CUT Luke choking the pig guards. That would get him at least 2 dark side points.

-CUT all of Bib Fortuna’s dialogue with Luke. We don’t know he’s doing the mind trick until he repates things to Jabba.

-CUT much of Luke’s dialogue with Jabba. The only lines kept are “I must be allowed to speak” “You will bring Captain Solo and the Wookiee to me” and “You can either profit from this, or be destroyed. It’s your choice, but I warn you not to underestimate my powers.”

-CUT Rancor sequence. Moved some shots and dialogue from Jabba to make this transition work.

-CUT the droids interacting on the sail barge.

-CUT Luke and Han dialogue scene on the skiff.

-REPLACED original Sarlaac and sounds in every shot (sourced from the GOUT DVD.)

-CUT “3PO, tell that slimey piece of…” Now Han just says “He’ll get no such pleasure from us!”

-CUT a few shots of everyone looking at each other before Luke walks the plank.

-CUT Threepio on the barge from action sequence.

-CUT some of Han’s dialogue.

-CUT many little things in the Skiff fight for pacing.

-MOVED 3PO and R2 falling off the barge to after Luke fires the canon at the deck. Now it looks like they jump off just as the explosion occurs.

-CUT leaving Tattooine after “I owe you one”

-MOVED Rebel briefing to after they leave Tattooine.

-CUT Han’s dialogue with Lando. “Well look at you, a general…” etc.

-CUT some of the dialogue after Han is announced as leading the Endor away team to remove some cheese.

-CUT the beginning of Han and Lando talking about the Falcon, so it feels like we come into the middle of their conversation.

-MOVED the shuttle arrival at Endor to right after they leave the Fleet.

-ADDED Death Star establishing shot to smooth transition between these scenes.

-CUT some of Han’s shenanigans and other dialogue from the Faking the Code scene. Now the focus is mainly on Luke and Vader sensing each other.

-CUT “Hey, it’s me!” sequence.

-ADDED music to Speeder Bike chase. (thanks to Rogue-theX)

-CUT Leia passing out after she falls off of her speeder bike.

-CUT most of Wicket’s first scene. We just see him walk up to Leia with his spear.

-CUT Luke finding Leia’s helmet.

-CUT some of everyones stupidity standing around looking at the Ewok’s trap. Chewy now goes straight for the meat.

-CUT some of the end of the Levitation scene. I don’t really need to see the heroes happily reunited yet again.

-MOVED Luke walking outside to earlier in 3PO’s story.

-CUT 3PO’s story after “Yes, R2, I was getting to that.” Removed rest of that scene.

-CUT some of Leia’s dialogue about her mother. She didn’t really know anything about her, as she died two minutes into Leia’s life.

-CUT Han coming outside at the end of this scene.

-CUT Vader’s dialogue about it being “Too late for him now”

-CUT some of the Ewok on the Speeder bike.

-ADDED shots from ESB of a shuttle flying to The Executor and landing, which moves Luke/Vader/Emperor scenesto a Star Destroyer rather than the Death Star.

-CUT “Bring those two down here!” When 3PO distracts the Imperials.

-CUT many Ewok scenes. Anything involving traps or over-cutesy stuff is gone.

-ADDED Death Star into the viewport in the throne room, so Luke can see it next to the battle.

-CUT “Witness the firepower of this fully armed and operational battle station!”

-ADDED Reversal of the shot where Luke/Vader clash sabers in front of the Emperor, so it looks like they lift them up again.

-MOVED all of the Vader/Luke fight to immediately after they clash sabers.

-ADDED new music to fight to make it more exciting, sourced from TPM.

-CUT Emperor’s dialogue during the scene.

-CUT Luke kicking Vader down the stairs and him walking back up.

-CUT all dialogue from Luke jumping to the rafters to Vader throwing his saber. Now he throws it at him immediately after he jumps out of the way.

-CUT some of Vader walking down the stairs.

-CUT Luke responding to Vader while he’s hiding.

-MOVED some of the fleet battle to after “So be it, Jedi.”

-MOVED Leia and Han trying to open the door to after “we’ve gotta give him more time!”

-MOVED Chewy and Ewoks taking the ATST to after the extra blast doors close.

-CUT some bits of the ATST takeover to make it less comedic.

-MOVED Leia being shot to after ATST sequence.

-MOVED Vader’s redemption to after Han’s “I’ve got an idea.”

-MOVED Han taking the bunker to right after Emperor’s death.

-MOVED Han running from the bunker and the explosion to right after they set the charges.

-CUT Han’s reaction to the explosion.

-MOVED “The shield is down, commence attack!” to right after explosion.

-CUT the Executor being destroyed. The Rebels still attack it.

-CUT some of Vader’s lines during his death, and used new music over the scene.

-CUT Leia and Han’s dialogue about Luke. Now they look up at the explosion and kiss.

-CUT Wicket interrupting their kiss.

-MOVED Celebrations around the galaxy to after Leia and Han kiss.

-CUT Endor Celebration, other than one shot that pans down from the fireworks.

-MOVED the funeral pyre scene to the end, new music to make it fit better.

-ADDED Iris transition to credits after the camera pans up from Luke to the fireworks.

-ADDED a couple of extra credits at the end for me and everyone who has helped me with the edit.

There’s also a plan to do some slight color correction, mainly to make Vader’s saber look less pink.

I’d like to entertain any other ideas anyone would like to submit, so feel free to throw some stuff out! Also, there’s some preview clips all throughout the thread, but they’re all tests or works in progress, so nothing is finalized in them yet. Some of them I know I won’t be using, but will be included on the DVD.

Speaking of which…


  • Full length commentary track

  • Clips of ideas I abandoned and a little discussion about them and why they were not used.

  • A Basic Fan Editing Tutorial, basically a video version of ADM’s tutorial. Great for noobs!

  • Previews for my upcoming edits.

  • “George Lucas Can’t Win” a short opinion piece by me on George Lucas’ decisions when making the Star Wars films. It’s a little essay I wrote a while back that I was going to turn into video. This will be on the disc if I can finish it in time, if not I’ll just youtube it. Basically, it’s a little bit of understanding about Lucas and his “bad decisions” in regards to the Star War saga. I guess it’s defending him a little bit, but it also attempts to make sense of his thought process.

I agree with almost all of these edits.


  1. Retain the both ghost of Obi-Wan appearing to Luke as well as Obi-Wan and Yoda confirming that Darth Vader is his father. They have to explain why they refused to tell him earlier. Also, it is necessary to confirm to children viewing the film that Darth Vader was not simply lying.

  2. Cut Luke’s line “Do you remember your mother…your real mother?” to “Do you remember your mother?” so Leia’s memories can be of her adoptive mother.

  3. Cut Leia’s line, “Somehow, I always knew,” which is completely illogical because she made out with Luke in The Empire Strikes Back.

  4. Retain Han Solo’s line, “But you could tell Luke? Is that who you could tell?” It is his most memorable line in this film.

  5. Use Adywan’s edit as a starting point if he grants you permission.

The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread

TheBoost said:

This is probably well beyond the scope of any re-edit, but it bothers me that the main thing the Jedi have against the Emperor is that he’s a Sith lord.

General Greivous dies, then the Jedi go full battle ready to arrest the man. Is being a Sith lord technicaly illegal? They have no proof or evidence that he’s done anything wrong. The man doesn’t even have a single session of the Senate to renounce his emergency powers. It just seemed really rushed.

Honestly, I don’t mind TPM, although about 60% less Jar Jar would be nice.

AOTC is just unpleasent to watch. I hate Anakin the entire time, and they never actually solve the mystery Obi-Wan is investigating.

I still empathize with Anakin more than probably any other character in the Star Wars saga, but I am the exception to the rule.

They solve the mystery: Count Dooku hired Jango Fett to assassinate Senator Amidala in order to get Nute Gunray to sign a treaty pledging the Trade Federation’s droid army to the separatist movement.

Smithers' Prequel Fanedits (a Work In Progress)

Smithers said:

My Prequels will be edited into two movies, one being a radical edit of TPM and the other being about a half hour of AOTC followed by a completely reordered version of ROTS.

Phantom Menace Changes/Plans (so far):
-100% remove Jar Jar and the Gungans using rotoscoping and image keying
-no “decoy” subplot
-re-dub young Anakin
-re-dub Neimodians
-re-dub Darth Maul
-remove Darth Sidious
-C3PO gets finished and taken to Coruscant
-remove Yoda as a character (preserving surprises)
-add in Count Dooku
-add more Darth Maul
-introduce the clone army as a solution to Naboo’s invasion
-only two battles during the climax rather than four
-Anakin doesn’t go to war as a ten year old kid
-other little changes

AOTC/ROTS Changes/Plans (so far):
-follow same rules as my TPM edit^
-no forbidden love
-less lightsaber fights
-General Grievous is Darth Maul (re-dubbing and special effects)
-Anakin’s turn is more gradual and understandable
-Anakin doesn’t kill children
-Mace Windu’s lightsaber is blue
-Mace Windu is a complete dick
-Palpatine doesn’t electrocute himself until he becomes a genital wart
-no Jango Fett
-other little changes
-change/add in new versions of Anakin’s nightmares
-Padme doesn’t die
-new ending

Many more major changes to the stories are coming, but I just want to make sure they actually work out before announcing them everything in the list above will be happening for sure.


  1. Retain Yoda in Episode I. Yoda is the Grand Master of the Jedi Council and one of the few redeeming features of the film. Removing his character would not preserve any revelations.
  2. Personally, I like the idea of Anakin destroying the Droid Control Ship at such a young age, a feat which demonstrates his abilities as a pilot.
  3. Do not re-dub Darth Maul.
  4. Keep Darth Sidious.


I dislike all of these changes:

  1. No, keep Padmé’s death and merely remove the line, “She has lost the will to live.” Her death is poetic: Padmé dies as Anakin is reborn as Darth Vader.
  2. The Jedi Order is a monastic order of warrior monks, so the forbidden love theme makes sense.
  3. No, keep Padmé’s death and merely remove the line, “She has lost the will to live.”
  4. As a Jedi Master, Mace Windu’s lightsaber should be green, not purple or blue.
  5. No, keep all of the lightsaber duels except for Yoda’s.
  6. No, General Grievous should be a different character.
  7. No, Jango Fett is a bad ass.
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **

If the movie had explained that the new Republic was unwilling to form a standing army because the last time an army was formed during the Clone Wars that army turned against the Republic, I could have accepted the basic plot much more easily.

(I made up the above explanation.)

Then I would have understood why the Resistance was formed and why the new Republic was unable to defend itself.

However, without any exposition, the political situation in The Force Awakens is incomprehensible.

Furthermore, Kylo Ren should have defeated Rey in the lightsaber duel.

Rey should have only nearly escaped after sustaining serious injuries.

What is the purpose of training with Luke in the next episode if she is already superior to the antagonist?

Seriously, if J. J. Abrams had simply explained the political situation more clearly and had made Kylo Ren a more menacing villain, The Force Awakens would have been a much better film.

However, these two major flaws - an incomprehensible political situation and a weak villain - completely ruin the film for me.

What Didn't You Like About ROTS?

Wexter said:

“Everything” is the correct answer. I will break it down a bit, however:

  1. The characters.
    Terribly written and awfully acted. Mace Windu, Yoda and to a lesser extent Obi-Wan are a bunch of dull monks. Grievous is silly. Palpatine is way over the top. Anakin is less awful to watch than he was in the last movie, but his transformation is handled very poorly. Also: Darth Vader is now a child-killer, yet his mentor and his wife still kinda like the guy.

  2. The story.
    Most of the time it feels like George had a checklist of stuff that needs to happen in the PT and only got around to using it by the time he started making the third film. Having said that, the PT doesn’t even tie in to the OT very well and introduces a lot of continuity errors. I also hate how every surviving character (except for Chewbacca) ends up in the exact same place where they are found 20 years later.

  3. The little things.
    They had the same actor who portrayed Palpatine in ROTJ. They could have take advantage of that and with some very mild make-up work he could really become a 20 years younger version of the same character. Instead they chose to glue an awful Halloween mask on his face.
    The two lightsaber duels lack any suspence whatsoever. I never found out why the Yoda vs. Palpatine duel was even in the film.

I disagree with everything in this post.

1.) Grievous is an epic villain. His role as a cyborg foreshadows Anakin’s future role as a cyborg while he is Darth Vader. The lightsaber duels with Grievous are epic. Almost all of the characters

2.) First you criticize the characters for being in the same position they are in at the beginning of A New Hope, but then you criticize it for not being continuous with the Original Trilogy. Which is it?

3.) Aging in and of itself could not explain Palpatine’s transformation of appearance into the Emperor.

(Spoilers)How could The Force Awakens have been more original?

Episode VIII Predictions

The film will open with a battle occurring on an ice world.

The film will cross cut between Rey training with Luke and the other characters navigating an asteroid belt on the way to Cloud City.

Luke tells Rey she is too old to be trained.

Luke will say, “No, I am your father.”

Rey will battle Kylo Ren at the end.

Kylo Ren will cut off Rey’s arm.

Rey’s lightsaber will fall into the depths below.

(Spoilers)How could The Force Awakens have been more original?

suspiciouscoffee said:

Scott109 said:

Darth Vader was an epic villain precisely because 1) his prowess in combat was far superior to the protagonist’s, and 2) his internal conflict was hidden until the very end of the trilogy.

Um… who cares? Seriously, why must a villain only be conflicted at the end of his life. Look at Macbeth, the entire story is about his internal conflict.

Macbeth was not a villain. He was an antihero.

A morally conflicted antihero can make a compelling protagonist.

(Spoilers)How could The Force Awakens have been more original?

adywan said:

BmB said:

Lord Haseo said:
Lucas was a pretty good idea man but his ability to execute such things post ROTJ was nil. If anything JJ and Kasdan could have taken a couple of ideas George had and adapted it to Episode VII.

But they didn’t. And the result was as you see.

Yes, the result was a great movie 😉

No, the result was a pale pastiche less original than Jurassic World.

(Spoilers)How could The Force Awakens have been more original?

Lord Haseo said:

BmB said:

The politics was exactly what gave the prequels depth.

You mean the illusion of depth? Also the politics are so badly written not only does it kill the pacing anyone with a brain in that universe would see after a while that Palpatine was behind everything even before ROTS.

Everyone shits on midichlorians but midichlorians are a more scientific aspect of the force.

There didn’t need to be a scientific aspect to The Force. The Force is just The Force.

Where the OT presents a purely mystical force.

And that’s the way it should have stayed.

The OT has clear cut black and white heroes and villains, the prequels subvert that so it’s difficult to know if anyone is good at all.

Other than Count Dooku who could you say this about?

By cutting straight to the action and only action forever, TFA makes itself extremely shallow. Kylo Ren literally wants to be evil? Puh-lease, even saturday morning cartoon villains have more depth than that.

Not only is he a good person literally willing himself to be evil he is also hell bent on furthering the legacy of his Grandfather. Also there’s more to a character’s depth than his/her motivations.

It’s like a five year olds conception of what grey morality is, just switch black and white around, that’s interesting right? No.

That’s not grey morality at all. If Kylo Ren were doing all this to destroy all Dark Siders in the galaxy then it would be grey. I wouldn’t exactly know what to call what Kylo is doing but it isn’t grey.

I agree that a lot of the political scenes in the prequel trilogy were poorly written. A planet decided to elect a fourteen year old girl as queen? Queens have the power to propose votes of no confidence in the senate? Queens have term limits and become senators?

(Spoilers)How could The Force Awakens have been more original?

Lord Haseo said:

Scott109 said:

Lord Haseo said:

Scott109 said:

Lord Haseo said:

As far as depth goes it’s a bit deeper than STAR WARS was. Especially when it comes to the villain aspect of the films.

I am not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Care to form a rebuttal or?

Darth Vader was an epic villain precisely because 1) his backstory was revealed gradually 2) his prowess in combat was far superior to the protagonist’s, and 3) his internal conflict was hidden until the very end of the trilogy.

Kylo Ren fails on all three counts.

You fail to realize I was talking about the Vader in STAR WARS which is also known as A New Hope. I wasn’t talking about Vader in general. But Vader in STAR WARS was a one dimensional but awesome villain whereas Kylo is a layered character in TFA.

In A New Hope, Vader is a former pupil of Obi-Wan’s who turned to evil and hunted down and destroyed the Jedi Knights, is a great and powerful warrior, is a religious mystic, and is a TIE-Fighter pilot.

Darth Vader is a traitor, a warrior, a mystic, a pilot, and a cyborg. That is hardly one dimensional.

Imagine if Darth Vader took off his mask, spoke of his struggle between the light and the dark sides of the Force, and struggled to kill Obi-Wan, who was a father figure to him. He would have been a much weaker villain. Villains should not have to struggle to commit villainy. Villains should be naturally villainous.

The scene in which Kylo Ren struggles to murder Han Solo was supposed to be poignant. In reality, it was pathetic.

(Spoilers)How could The Force Awakens have been more original?

Lord Haseo said:

Scott109 said:

Lord Haseo said:

As far as depth goes it’s a bit deeper than STAR WARS was. Especially when it comes to the villain aspect of the films.

I am not sure whether to laugh or cry.

Care to form a rebuttal or?

Darth Vader was an epic villain precisely because 1) his prowess in combat was far superior to the protagonist’s, and 2) his internal conflict was hidden until the very end of the trilogy.

Kylo Ren fails on both counts.

(Spoilers)How could The Force Awakens have been more original?

TV’s Frink said:

Scott109 said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

BillionaireHobo287 said:

Kylo Ren, while his story is very similar to Darth Vader’s, is one of the greatest villains of all time and the best Star Wars villain.

Urge to drink … rising.

To be fair, I would’ve said that Kylo was the second best Star Wars villain if the prequels didn’t thoroughly ruin Vader.

Some other tips :

  1. Avoid politics. The original Star Wars wasn’t really WW2 in space. The Empire was just based on the Nazis but also the British during the American Revolution (why all the grey shirts have British accents). Star Wars is more like the American Revolution in space not WW2 and this isn’t explained through dialogue. We know this from the very first shot of the original Star Wars. Keep the politics simple and visual. You didn’t hear any talk of space taxes in the original trilogy.

  2. Sadly, the prequels are still canon. Any Jedi character more skilled than a Padawan is probably going to be an emotionless robot IF there is a Jedi Order. It doesn’t even make sense that there would be a succesful Jedi Order since Luke did not finish his training even after Return of the Jedi. Work around the prequels.

I actually enjoyed the prequels in spite of Jar Jar’s annoying presence and Anakin’s unlikability. At least the prequels were original even if the execution was wanting in many respects.

A crap sandwich would be fairly original but it’s still a crap sandwich.

I disagree with your comparison. Other than one character and a few scenes of poor dialogue, the Star Wars prequels are actually great films. They are precious gemstones hidden in layers of rock and tainted with minor impurities, but they are precious gemstones nonetheless.

The Force Awakens is a crap sandwich.