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SKot

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Join date
3-Apr-2005
Last activity
12-May-2025
Posts
935
Web Site
http://www.starwarsholidayspecial.com

Post History

Post
#231927
Topic
The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside!
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
To me, a change is a change, and none of them should exist. And the minor problems never really bothered anybody enough to keep it from becoming a successful movie, so there's really no point in changing it twenty years later.
But to not buy the Indy trilogy just becasue of a missing reflection (and maybe some cleaned-up matte lines)? It's your choice, but it seems like overkill to me, not to mention depriving yourself of those films on a worthwhile format.

--SKot
Post
#231924
Topic
Why LFL is actually cool (I know we need some reasons right now)...
Time
From TFN, here.

Basically, it comes down to the Lucasfilm statement:

Lucasfilm has been informed that YouTube recently removed from its site several fan-made Star Wars spoofs and parodies. We would like the fan film community to know that this was not done at our request. Apparently the action was taken by YouTube as a result of a misunderstanding of a request to remove an item containing material taken from starwars.com without our permission. We have asked YouTube to restore any works that they inadvertently removed.

Whereas most corporations would have just as soon thrown the baby out with the bath water and insisted on a blanket removal of all material they own the rights to (in addition to never allowing fan films to use their materials in the first place), Lucasfilm goes out of their way to make sure that the misunderstanding is righted, and that all the non-Hyperspace fan material gets restored.

I have to give them a huge thumbs-up on this. Lucasfilm is responsible for pioneering this kind of progressive thinking in the first place, setting the standard for other companies to follow (Paramount with Star Trek, for one - remember how tight they were before?). First with websites (LFL learned their lesson quickly and set a very fan-friendly policy after some initial missteps), and then with fan films, allowing fans to freely use their copyrighted material in a non-profit way.

I know we're all pretty sore at Lucasfilm right now due to their unwillingness to spend the required time and effort to fully restore the OUT, but let's not forget that they're also on our side... from time to time.

--SKot
Post
#231917
Topic
Saber fighting as kids....
Time
I was an original 1977 Star Wars generation kid, so at first the only lightsabers that were available were the Kenner ones that were basically a flashlight with a yellow inflatable blade. Oddly enough, though, nobody I ever knew seemed to have one! Of course I wanted one too, but I never did get one... seems like they were hard to find, and not around for very long. I finally picked one up at Celebration 3, many years later, and it was cool finally getting to see what they were like. Of course they wouldn't have worked very well for dueling.

I remember using those plastic lightweight Wiffle ball bats as lightsabers. They were yellow, too, so you could imagine they were like the Kenner sabers. But the best sabers my friend and I ever had were actually golf clubs with the club end broken off and the broken end crimped down. They were fantastic for duels, though they hurt like hell when you got hit on the fingers. We had to be covert about them because our parents thought they were potentially dangerous. They cut down thistles and sticker bushes like butter, though!

--SKot
Post
#231911
Topic
The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside!
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: Mielr
Why do you consider the Indy trilogy to be tampered? Because they erased the snake's reflection from the plexi?
Yes, that change alone is too much. And then there were all the other "fixed" blue-screen shots, etc.


I agree with boris on this one. That's the same reason I've never attempted to get the Indy set. I find it quite irritating.
This I find difficult to understand - after all, it doesn't really change the content of the film - but hey, to each their own.

It just seems like you'll be depriving yourselves of really nice versions of the Indy films for a very minor thing. And I don't expect they will ever release a giant box set with one whole disc with the snake reflection and one whole disc without. That would be silly. Seamless branching allowing you to see the reflection if you want: maybe.

We all draw the line somewhere. Personally, even with the Star Wars films, I'd be fine if they fixed certain things that were glaringly distracting: garbage mattes, matte problems with the Rancor scene, ships flying through other objects, the Emperor's eye slugs, etc. as long as they left other things alone that weren't a problem. For the vaseline smear below Luke's landspeeder, I don't think there's a fix for that. And the way they did it in the SE looked terribly fake. They erased too much of the bottom of the landspeeder and made the ground too far below it.

But I also like to be able to have a version of the films with warts and all. And generally that's what we'll get in September.

--SKot
Post
#231738
Topic
No explanation necessary (but we got one anyway)
Time
Originally posted by: Whiners
Of course, you people know nothing about being creative. Originally posted by: Whiners
If they're not contradicting at all, than why do you people whine about contradictions?
God, I hate you people who are always making blanket statements about large groups with very diverse opinions and backgrounds and referring to them as 'you people'. Hello, Ross Perot...

Incidentally, I think the only REAL thing we all have in common here is that we'd all like to see the original, unaltered trilogy released in a good quality contemporary format. That's it. Beyond that, we all have our own ideas and opinions.

--SKot
Post
#231718
Topic
1977 70mm Soundtrack Recording (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: Number20
I might be wrong, but I think that Editdroid v1 does not have the actual 70 mm 6-track mix, but the authors used the 1985 LD audio remix, believing it to be the original 70 mm 6-track mix. No one has released the actual 70 mm mix until this audio recording was released.
I believe you are correct in your statement. Unfortunately it did not turn out to be the real 70mm mix on the EditDroid discs.

I'd love to see a re-authored EditDroid Star Wars with the actual 70mm mix included, once we have a copy we can work with.

--SKot

Post
#231714
Topic
Finally Hocked the SE
Time
Originally posted by: JennyS1138
I have to admit that I only watched the SE/2004 DVD versions of Star Wars from 1997-2004. The reason was I absolutely abhor full screen films and with so much of the picture missing I wouldn't really be seeing the theatrical versions. Now I have a set of the OOT on DVD and it's great. But the picture on the 2004 is so much better. Actually, the last time I watched Empire, I watched the 2004 version, but then switched back and forth between the original version and the 2004 dvd (for the scenes that were not changed.)
You sound like a good candidate for ocpmovie's Classic Editions, then. If you haven't already, you should seek them out--as you may or may not know, they took the clarity of the 2004 editions and mixed in (as fluidly as could be done) elements from laserdisc captures to undo the SE changes. Plus a little extra effort was made to make the sound mix a "best of" from previous mixes, including all the missing lines. Then you wouldn't have to switch back and forth.

--SKot
Post
#231634
Topic
Finally Hocked the SE
Time
I bought all of the DVDs of all the movies the minute they came out (except for ROTS, as that was released at a point where I was broke) - and I don't regret it. I don't intend to get rid of them, either. The Star Wars historian in me wants to have all of the versions of the films, at the very least just for the sake of reference. And I reference them a lot. I may not like the SEs or the prequels as much as I do the OOT, but it's all Star Wars - even if I find parts of it disappointing. I guess I look at the SE changes and prequels as EU material that I don't necessarily accept as canon, but find interesting to watch sometimes, kind of like reading those Star Wars Tales comics Dark Horse put out.

When I want to watch what to me are the REAL movies, I get out the EditDroid set. Or maybe the Moth3r set, for better quality. As long as I have the choice of being able to watch the OOT, I'm happy. I have that choice now, unofficial though it may be. When the September DVDs come out, hopefully I'll have a somewhat better quality yet (though still non-anamorphic) official choice, and be somewhat happier.

I'll repeat what I imagine are the feelings of most of the group here: I don't care what George Lucas does to his movies, as long as I have the ability to watch the original, unaltered versions in good quality at my leisure.

--SKot
Post
#231284
Topic
1977 70mm Soundtrack Strikes Back (Released)
Time
Originally posted by: blitter
I mentioned this in passing over on the X0 Project thread, but for what it's worth, I've got a transfer of the 70mm audio mix straight to cassette tape. My father was fortunate enough to have been an assistant manager of a theatre in 1977 and ripped the soundtrack directly from the projection equipment, through patch cables into a cassette deck, and onto two dual-sided 60 minute cassettes, which have been stored in plastic cases for the past 25 years.

I don't know how good of a source 25-year-old tape is though... when I played it recently I found it warbles a bit but the line "Blast it Biggs where are you" is indeed there and it seems to be an actual stereo recording (not downmixed to mono/upmixed to stereo). I'm sure someone with a background in audio might be able to do something with it but it definitely needs some work.
This definitely sounds like the best possible 70mm audio capture yet. All others we know of have been open-air recordings. By all means, see to getting that transferred to digital ASAP. If you don't have the best means of doing it yourself, there are others here who have those means, some of whom work in the audio field professionally. They will be more than happy to do their best work on preserving this piece.

Now, since it was recorded onto two cassettes, I'm guessing the music is likely missing some small pieces due to side flipping. This is where David's version may be of best use to stitch the soundtrack back together. David, I wonder if it would be worthwhile to use the technique you used on this new clip you posted just for making transition pieces that are likely to be needed? I'm guessing the missing bits would be less than a minute long, so syncing them up shouldn't pose too much difficulty.

We may at last have a 70mm audio track here worthy of serious consideration as an alternate soundtrack. Great find!

--SKot
Post
#231259
Topic
United States of Noooooooo! (Documentary)
Time
For my part, I don't agree that "NOOOOO!" destroyed ROTS, let alone the whole SW saga. All I thought was that it was a little weak, and should have been more like a primal scream. But the documentary is still funny, using that as a larger symbol of all that has gone wrong.

I also don't feel (like most people do) that Jar Jar destroyed TPM. Its flaws run far deeper than that, and Jar Jar wasn't even the worst symptom.

All the scenes toward the end of AOTC with the digital Threepio really make me cringe. I love Threepio, but that was too much. The flying Artoo irritates me, too. Apart from this and the stilted love scenes, I enjoy most of that film.

Ewoks... well, I don't hate them, but I do agree they were the weakest point in ROTJ.

And the Boba Fett cartoon in the Holiday Special is the weak point in that film - the one thing that really prevented it from being the 100% complete crapfest it was meant to be. Such a shame they had to include that part.

--SKot

Post
#231082
Topic
United States of Noooooooo! (Documentary)
Time
For further comic effect, I think the interviewer should have had a pink glowing special effect superimposed on his microphone the whole time, ala Jefferson Starship's part in The Star Wars Holiday Special.

Incidentally, I had a good laugh watching that. It's a bit long for the joke and should probably be trimmed down a bit, but the recreation of the scene at the end was especially hilarious.

--SKot
Post
#231014
Topic
Anyone got the original 'theatrical' release of TPM or AOTC?
Time
Mentasm,

More praise for your article, which I've consulted a number of times in the past... it's exactly what I like to see for easy reference when trying to make sense out of all the little (and not so little) tweaks, cuts, and additions to the Star Wars films. I'll try to help you out any way I can with any further info I find out about.

Here's another change to AOTC: during the speeder chase through the city, a background ship was removed in the DVD release to make Anakin's flying lightsaber easier to see. I managed to grab comparison frames showing this, and T'bone has it on his site here (see the text near the very bottom, and the accompanying comparison picture). Unfortunately, I only had a crappy camcorder copy of the theatrical version for reference, so that's the best shot I could get.

Regarding TPM: the VHS release came out a good while before the DVD release. While I believe that it was the same as the theatrical version, just like the laserdiscs were, at some point I thought there were some small differences between the VHS version and the theatrical version. In particular, something during the pod race sequence, it seemed. But I wasn't able to find anything, so I assume they are the same. Has anyone heard differently?

--SKot
Post
#230253
Topic
More changes ?
Time
Originally posted by: Scruffy
Every episode of the PT has been changed on the DVD release.
What has been changed on ROTS between the theatrical version and the DVD version? Heck, even between the workprint and the DVD version? I believe there is one wipe that's slightly different, but that's the only thing I know of. If you have more info, please spill the beans.

--SKot

P.S. - It's annoying that ROTS is the one film where a decent quality copy of a workprint leaks, and then then it ends up being exactly like the version we get on DVD! If only it had been AOTC or TPM's workprint that had leaked...
Post
#230246
Topic
Anyone got the original 'theatrical' release of TPM or AOTC?
Time
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Pacing aside, lets get back to the topic. The TPM original version was available on VHS and Laserdisc. I suppose it wouldn't be too hard to construct a hybrid version of the movie based on the DVD with the differences grafted in from a good laserdisc transfer. Sort of along the lines of OCP's Classic Editions. The laserdisc transfer I have isn't bad, but nowhere near comparable to the DVD. No need to use the laserdisc for the original version of TPM, man... the TB version is the original theatrical release, and it looks better than anything I've seen. Surely better than any laserdisc transfer out there.

A preservation project for Clones would be tougher as the DVD was the first release and it had all of the changes. I am sure someone out there somewhere has a better version than the camcorder version. Was it ever broadcast on TV? Which version would have this been?
That's what I'm thinking; there's GOT to be a better version of the theatrical AOTC than the crappy camcorder versions we've seen. But I fear that may be difficult since the changes were made while it was still in the theaters, showing up in the digitally projected version. That means that one became the definitive version extremely quickly. So I doubt there was a version of it shown on TV before that point, and anything after that most likely would have been the same as the digitally projected version.

Somebody prove me wrong on this... please!

--SKot
Post
#229988
Topic
Anyone got the original 'theatrical' release of TPM or AOTC?
Time
Originally posted by: russs15
In my opinion, the TB releases are the best Ep 1 theatrical and OT SE versions available. I guess we could call these definitive, then, at this point. I can't stress enough how important these are to preservation efforts. They are now more of an endangered species than the OOT, in my book. But I really hope something similar turns up for the theatrical version of Episode 2.

For Ep 2, all I know of is a really scabby CAM copy which is where I got the screenshots from for my basic Ep 2 changes page.
Unfortunately, that sounds like what I've got as well. I've looked around for something better, to no avail.

Has ANYBODY ever run across a decent copy of the original theatrical version of Episode 2? (no hand-holding during Anakin's wedding, minor changes to some other scenes, etc.)

--SKot
Post
#229436
Topic
The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside!
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
Boris, if they were going to use the actual 1977 crawl ie from the actual archives, then they would obviously use the EOD footage since it is already transfered and they obviously do not want to spend any money on this release. The trailer clip is clearly not the same as the EOD one.
The thing to remember is this: it doesn't matter one iota what they show in the preview trailer. Nowhere does it say that the footage contained in that trailer is the same exact footage that is going to be in the September DVDs. Who's to say they didn't make a custom edit showing the text crawl as the SW logo is still on-screen, to compress more into less time for the trailer? And who's to say they didn't fabricate a text crawl just for this promotional trailer?

Boris is right about one thing, at least. We can't jump to any conclusions until we've seen the actual DVDs ourselves.

--SKot
Post
#229111
Topic
first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I just think it's a bad idea to think, "I'm going to buy these crappy discs not because I want them, but because it might convince George to sell me something else that's better." It just makes me sick when I see that logic, and it makes me feel even more sick to think that George has that stranglehold over it like that.
I don't think this is the case at all, though. The fact is, George has enough money. He doesn't try *not* to make money, but whether a particular thing does or doesn't make money isn't his primary concern anymore. He does what he wants, regardless. The fact is, NOTHING is going to convince George Lucas to do something he doesn't want to do... unless someone close to him manages to sway him that direction. Which rarely happens, since he's generally surrounded by people too afraid to speak out most of the time. In the case of the September DVDs, I think it actually happened: someone had the guts to talk him into releasing the OOT. But as we know, it was only a partial victory.

Give it time. There will be another, better release later... I'll wager the Falcon in a game of sabacc over it. But don't give up the fight.

Remember:
"Star Wars will never be on home video."
(release of all the films on home video follows)
"No Star Wars film will come out on DVD until after the prequels are complete."
(release of Episode I on DVD follows)
"The original trilogy will not come out on DVD until the prequels are complete."
(release of SE OT on DVD follows, prior to Episode III's completion)
"The SE is George Lucas' vision; the OUT will not be released again."
(release of OUT on DVD follows)
"We have no plans to release the OUT in anamorphic widescreen."
...time will tell.

--SKot
Post
#229042
Topic
first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
I'm not saying that anyone who buys these DVDs is a fool, I just see it, at this point (knowing what we know), to be a bad move unless the money spent is not big deal and the Star Wars trilogy is really that important to you. I am nearly 100% certain that I am going to buy the September set. But it's actually because the Star Wars trilogy *is* really that important to me. I want the OOT in the best available viewing format. I don't know what will be available in the future, but I know this is what's going to be available now. It will hold me until the next better thing comes along. And I have no doubt there will be a next better thing. It's the way it's always worked. I don't look back on previous inferior formats and regret that I purchased them. I know that the money was well-spent at the time. And I also know that I will wind up purchasing Star Wars a few more times in my life as well, as the formats improve. I'm not bitter about this; I consider it a fact of life.

I've always been unhappy with the quality of VHS. But at one time it was the best thing there was. I didn't deny myself the ability to see the films just because VHS was crap. When laserdisc was available, that was the next best format. I would have upgraded to that if I could have afforded it, but my poverty-stricken college years made that impossible. So I picked up a really nice nearly new "Faces" widescreen VHS boxed set, and waited for the next format to arrive. The 2004 DVD set was a different trilogy, so that didn't count. I guess I'm still waiting. But the September release will be my next step up. And then I'll wait again for whatever comes after that.

Otherwise, giving George money will reward him for giving out crap, but I do not think that causes any problems for us. Even if George Lucas gets less money, that won’t help him change his mind. Absolutely right; this is a very important point. The way this product is being marketed, there is no way to send any kind of clear message by either buying or not buying it. We have to forget about that. Buy it if you want it or don't if you don't, but don't give up on continuing to push for a better release afterwards.

From my point of view it’s a basic economic principle only to spend your money on things you want. At this point, I'd rather never see the films again than ever purchase this release. That's the value that I believe everyone else have as well, but if other people feel differently I'm not going to criticize them. George Lucas has effectively destroyed Star Wars for me and that's all.
I don't understand why watching this upcoming release would be so bad. For instance: my version of choice is the EditDroid DVDs. The picture quality is good, the menus fantastic, and I know how much love and effort went into making them. Let's take the EditDroid Star Wars. It has the original opening crawl as an option. Simulated, yes, but very painstakingly done by fans. It's laserdisc quality, transferred to the best of their ability by a group of fans. It's not anamorphic, or even 'fanamorphic'. Now compare that to the upcoming official release. Original opening crawl? Even if it's simulated (and that *is* an IF - we don't know yet), at worst it will be as good as the EditDroid one. At best it could even be taken from the original source. It's non-anamorphic, just like the EditDroid. But picture quality--this is where I have to give in. I guarantee without any doubt that the picture quality will far exceed the EditDroid version. And this is why I will buy it. Sure, it will be sub-par by Lucasfilm standards. Sure, it won't have the same amount of loving attention the EditDroid crew gave theirs. But it will become the set I watch when I want to see the films at their best.

Now, I have no intention of getting rid of my EditDroid set. I appreciate the work done on them far too much for that. But I'll generally only be watching it for the features and extras at that point, not for the main films.

Oh, and I'm still holding out for the X0 set to see how that comes out.

(Thankfully I still have viewable VHS copies too.)
VHS is unacceptable to me these days, not even so much for picture quality (I still think my "Faces" tapes look fairly good), but for lack of any kind of interface or method of non-linear navigation. I often like to just jump to a particular scene to watch, or a section of the film. VHS is worthless in that aspect. If VHS were the only method I had of watching the OOT, then I'd still watch it that way... but it's not. EditDroid fills the gap nicely, for now.

--SKot
Post
#228849
Topic
What is the rarest video in your collection?
Time
Funny to see mention of the Legendary Pink Dots, Current 93, brainwashed, etc. here. I'm also a Dots fan, as well as having run the brainwashed websites for Current 93, Death In June, and Annie Anxiety for many years.

Some of my rarest videos (minus flat-out bootlegs) would probably be:
Current 93 - Since Yesterday VHS (someone stole my original and I had to replace it in recent years... aaargh!)
Elijah's Mantle - Philosophy With A Hammer VHS
Der Blutharsch - Gold Gab Ich Für Eisen VHS
Fire+Ice - Live at Hammersmith VHS
Coil - Live in NYC VHS
WaxTrax! Video Sampler #1 VHS
WaxTrax! Video Sampler #2 VHS (both of these are original promos sent out from WaxTrax! back in the day)
Laibach - Predictions Of Fire workprint VHS (may or may not be a bootleg)
Jefferson Starship - St. Charles 1976 conceptual video DVD (my own transfer from the original 16mm film)
The Trap Door complete collection 2xVHS (very rare official Canadian release, now superceded by the UK DVD)
Star Wars rental library edition VHS (picked up from a local video store that closed down)

That's what I can think of without being able to look right now. I don't actually own any laserdiscs.

--SKot