Being a pretentious ass isn’t helping you. You can’t be objective with subjective material, to quote you, that’s “retarded”.
And thinking you’re enlightened by claiming “everything is subjective” just makes you look ridiculous.
Look, I usually don’t resort to ad hominem attacks, but are you intentionally trying to sound retarded?
Oh you lovely human being.
Deflecting because you can’t answer my question, noice.
Look, I usually don’t resort to ad hominem attacks, but are you intentionally trying to sound retarded?
Obviously those two uses of ‘real’ are different. In the most recent instance I used “real” to refer to practical effects, in the latter I meant the literal translation.
Twisting my words also doesn’t help you.
Proving my point by being childish really doesn’t help you.
I never said all the SFX in TPM was better, I was saying that one shot was better than all the crappy greenscreening ROTJ is infamous for.
Real =/= better.
Circle jerking about it doesn’t make it true.
The greenscreens in ESB are convincing, the ones in ROTJ are not; this isn’t even a prequel debate, or a CGI one.
Also as a side note, those pods and the background in that scene are real, physical objects.
You don’t need “scientific fact” to prove that a real tree looks more real than a cartoon one.
Similarly, you don’t need “scientific fact” to tell that the speeder chase in ROTJ looked crap when it came out and looks crap to this day. Just because something has a nostalgic value to you it doesn’t make it better.
I’m not discussing the PT, I’m saying being pretentious is not indicative of intelligence.
Stop treating your opinion as objective fact or you’re gonna have a rough time.
It’s not my opinion, it’s called not being narrow-minded and deluded by nostalgia.
From a technical standpoint the screenshot of TPM looks more real than that of ROTJ, which is ultimately what the filmmakers were aiming for: amazing special effects that felt real.
Star Wars isn’t some weird trippy arthouse film, it’s a Hollywood blockbuster, the effects of which are supposed to be convincing, and the shot from TPM is objectively more convincing than that of ROTJ.
And the fact that ESB has considerably better SFX than ROTJ across the board doesn’t help.
Nobody cares if you prefer the way ROTJ looks, but being arrogant and stubborn about it just because you don’t like another movie doesn’t make you right.
It doesn’t.
Looks are purely subjective, there’s no objectivity about it.
Well… No.
Yes I get the whole “personal taste” argument and while I agree that what you personally like is subjective, there is objective quality.This is obviously a drastic example/hypothetical, but let’s say two movies come out and they both have a scene of a teacher at their desk, an apple at the foreground and clearly the main focus.
One film has a real, nice, shiny looking apple, and the second film literally just has a red splotch that looks like it was put in there using Microsoft Paint, with the intent of it resembling an apple.One apple looks well on film, the other is a piece of shit.
You may think the second apple looks good personally, but that doesn’t mean it looks like a good apple in general.You’re comparing apples (haha get it) and oranges here. IMO good quality modeling shot on 35mm looks way better than crappy 1080p unimaginative CGI.
Well that’s, just like, your opinion, man.
I won’t touch the ship argument due to all the SE modifications that have improved them, but instead offer up a less “apples and oranges” comparison.
You cannot tell me that this:
http://dorksideoftheforce.com/files/2015/08/return-of-the-jedi-speeder-bike-race.jpg
Looks better than this:
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/banthapodoo/Podrace.jpg
Both use film stock, both use a blend of green/bluescreen and practical effects.
And yeah I know, crappy links, but I’m on my phone.
Looks are purely subjective, there’s no objectivity about it.
Well… No.
Yes I get the whole “personal taste” argument and while I agree that what you personally like is subjective, there is objective quality.
This is obviously a drastic example/hypothetical, but let’s say two movies come out and they both have a scene of a teacher at their desk, an apple at the foreground and clearly the main focus.
One film has a real, nice, shiny looking apple, and the second film literally just has a red splotch that looks like it was put in there using Microsoft Paint, with the intent of it resembling an apple.
One apple looks well on film, the other is a piece of shit.
You may think the second apple looks good personally, but that doesn’t mean it looks like a good apple in general.
While I do agree with you to an extent, I don’t really agree that the Emperor needed to look more like he did in ROTJ than ROTS.
He doesn’t look nearly as different between '04 ESB and ROTJ as he does between ROTS and ROTJ.
His appearance changes in pretty much every film he’s in so it isn’t really too unbelievable that he would look different from '04 ESB to ROTJ.
At the end of the day you have to remember that the SE from '04 onwards was altered to be more familiar with the PT (like it or not, that’s not really relevant), so it makes sense to an extent to give the Emperor more of a ROTS look.
Personally I think it’s a decent hybrid between ROTS and ROTJ and while the original may be more interesting, that doesn’t make the quality better.
Nostalgia is obviously a very big factor, but while someone may personally prefer the aesthetic of model ship battles in ANH, it’s not really subjective that the ones in ROTS look objectively better, which they should, almost 30 years later.
Indeed, Emperor was in '04.
But let’s be honest, the original Emperor in ESB is absolutely shocking, and not in a good way.
Funnily enough I quite like the Hayden change though. Yeah it’s unnecessary, but at least there’s a reason behind it (the validity can be argued).
I feel that this change was very unacceptable. First on a logic level it makes no sense. If you have a young Hayden why not CG Yoda and Ewan. Then I would personally say that the whole “Hayden is the version of the time when Anakin was last on the light side” argument completely ruins the importance of his turn in Jedi. And then on a nostalgic level obviously (combined with the logical problems) it ruins ultimately one of the most happy moments of the saga. That is why that and Vaders “Noo” are so criticized. They were mindless dumb changes to incredibly critical and nostalgic scenes.
I don’t agree with that “this is when Anakin was good argument”, either.
Trust me, I do agree with you that it’s a terrible change and one just for the sake of being there, I just personally don’t hate it because I never had any attachment to Shaw as Anakin in the slightest.
I think most of us can agree that we wouldn’t actually care that George tampered with the films if he’d just made the OOT readily available as well (minus crappy “Limited Edition” DVDs).
I think the ESB SE ('97) is a tad better than the theatrical though, minus some wonky CGI.
Pull out your 1997 SE VHS and skip to one of the most memorable movie scenes of all time (cloud city reveal). Absorb the weight and importance of the scene as Luke is tempted, he chooses to rather fall to an inevitable death, wait…is that the Emperors scream, oh god WTF is this.
I actually forgot about that sorry. No, I agree that the scream is complete junk and was glad it was removed for the '04 release. Other than the sream though, I do think the ESB SE makes some genuine improvements, though it’s no excuse to discard the OOT for this amount of time.
If the rumors of ghost Hayden being in Episode 8 are true, then all chance of an OOT release outside of bonus material in the vein of the '06 DVDs is gone.
At the end of the day the average consumer doesn’t care anyway, and that’s all that matters to Disney/Lucasfilm.
My second choice would be to leave in “Episode IV: A New Hope.”
Technically not a SE change, technically.
I honestly feel like the big uproar was blown way out of proportion.
While I think there never should have been a change in the first place, of all the changes it is probably the least damaging, except for the removal of Yub Nub. Yub Nub is shit.
Shaw is literally just a glorified cameo in the film, it’s not like Alec was turned into Samuel L. Jackson or something.
Was that an actual color regrade though? It kind of just looks like the saturation has been bumped up a notch.
Pretty much every change in ROTJ is complete rubbish however.
Funnily enough I quite like the Hayden change though. Yeah it’s unnecessary, but at least there’s a reason behind it (the validity can be argued).
But Jedi Rocks? CGI Sarlacc? CGI R2D2? Vader’s “Noooo”? Jabba’s Palace door size and then shrinkage? What were the point of these?
I think the ESB SE ('97) is a tad better than the theatrical though, minus some wonky CGI.
Literally cringed.
I actually burst out laughing when I heard Obi-Wan’s new screech though.
I don’t get angry about changes, on the contrary I find them fascinating.
Part of the reason I have 100+ copies of all six (seven, I guess… technically TFA counts…) Star Wars films on BD/DVD/VCD/LD/VHS/Beta in various releases, as well as a stupidly large amount of bootlegs, is because I love seeing all the differences between releases.
While I think the cinema mix is much better and I’m kind of sick of studios watering down BD sound mixes, when it comes to TFA I don’t really care anyway; the movie is about as interesting as a puddle.
Even so we’re all going to bitch like children regardless, it wouldn’t be OT.com if we didn’t complain about Star Wars all the time.
Just about everywhere has it, even the major sites.
STOP
It is kind of like going to a sports bar with Green Bay Packers stuff all over the walls, and starting a convo on how lousy a team they are. 😉
The difference being I’d probably have my head chopped off if I did that, here I only get chewed out :’)
AOTC and ROTS both have considerably more fully CGI characters and environments than any of the LOTR films.
Think about this really hard, and you might notice the problem.
I never said it wasn’t a problem, I just said it was a fact.
Regardless all this moaning of “I don’t get it! The prequels suck! How can you think they’re colorful?! They’re not!” doesn’t really accomplish anything.
Whether I think the movies are fun and colorful is entirely subjective; I never said anyone else had to share that opinion, just that it was mine.
I’m not trying to persuade anyone; coming to a forum on “ORIGINAL TRILOGY” and expecting anything other than an OT circle-jerk would be naive.
Anyway, that’s just, like, your opinion, man.
OT:
- Fun faced pace space adventure with simple plots but had a bit of depth
- Practical effects were heavily used to make the universe looked lived in
- Colorful and fun characters who had chemistry and fully realized arcs
PT:
- Slow paced bore fests set in space with simple plots and the illusion of depth
- Over reliance on mostly terrible CGI which made a lot of it look fake and the universe was all shiny while the OT was gritty
- Dull and (mostly) 1 dimensional characters who had no chemistry and no fully defined arcs
I can keep going but I guess all you need are lightsabers, blasters and things that look like Storm Troopers and suddenly it’s Star Wars. Say what you will about TFA but at least that had colorful characters and was exciting in my point of view a Star Wars film with boring characters and no sense of fun isn’t really a Star Wars film.
First of all, the plot points in the PT are faaaaaar from simple. Executed poorly? Perhaps, but they are not simple.
“Say what you will about TFA but at least that had colorful characters and was exciting”
Funny, that’s what I say about the PT.
“a Star Wars film with boring characters and no sense of fun isn’t really a Star Wars film.”
And that’s what I say about TFA.
Like I said, either either.
Ryan-SWI said:
but from what I’ve seen from this new ‘era’, the only person who really understands the essence of Star Wars is George.The disconnect between the OT and the PT proves that statement is inaccurate without a shadow of a doubt.
There is zero disconnect. Everything may be more glossy but the theme is the same.
And I don’t secretly love the PT, I openly love the PT.
It’s not a shared sentiment around here and I’m aware of it, but I can’t ignore the fact that I love both the PT and OT and I still don’t consider TFA a proper Star Wars movie.
Either it says something about it, or I’m just nuts.
Either either.
