Ronster

I actually Have a question about which actual version I need to own?.

Do I need to own the complete Saga Blu Ray box set to watch ESB and ROTJ or can I only own the Original Trilogy Blu rays box set (3 films) to watch Revisited ESB and ROTJ and ARSE when it comes out :).

I really don't want to have to purchase the prequels to be honest because I sold them because I did not like them... But If I need them to watch those three films  I will buy them on those grounds....

Marty.McFly said:

For anyone in the know...

Soooo, my actual point. Will he release ESB:R as DL and BluRay? My computer can burn DL, but not BluRay and there's no one I know who can burn BL. If DL, then great, I'll burn them both when ESB:R is released. if only BL, well... crap.

 Your Best choice if you Have a Blu-Ray player but not a Burner would be the MKV 720p.

Check what file types your Blu Ray player supports also...VLC media Player supports MKV files most players do now days.

MKV files also support subtitles embeded within the file so for anyone hard of hearing this is handy for a stand alone file.

fishmanlee said:

Ronster said:

I am looking at it with a bit of an open mind because it would appear that the actual scene where Han is Loaded on to Slave 1 has a missing scene... This explains in the Gout the music for the Slave 1 scene being screwed up and cut short

It was meant to Have Fett climbing a ladder and saying "Seal it"

Also the whole Slave 1 sequence was meant to take place Just before the heroes ran through the door to try and save him from being carted off so it was moved because of script revision.

The special edition sorts the music problem out but also (This is the part I am not sure about...) Perhaps slows down the score so it joins the light saber duel and was perhaps never originally intended to?.

 It was.

 Yes... And although The missing scene I pointed out will sort out the music cues to a point in terms of timing them correctly, there could be a bit more to this story yet to be told.

Bear with me... The Chinese Puzzle has the missing square in the correct place but still could have not the complete picture yet....

muddyknees2000 said:

WILL build.

 Sugar?

I knew that x-wing shot was going to be a tricky one!!!! would there be any way to use grindhouse edition to get the missing detail in the shadow... Just a thought to try and help you speed ithe result. It's that contrast destroyed detail again (Black holes) *waves fist*

brimforge said:

ok, now this runs more smoothly ;-)

and yes, a short clip of Fett pushing some buttons would add to the sequence

but in the end, I think Adywan will keep the cinematic cut or do something else ...

at least it's a nice alternative for other editors

 Oh yes absolutely... And you know unless you get your hands dirty you will never be able to come to any conclusions....

This is what has hit me today like a slap in the face with a wet kipper....

Now again I am not 100% (leaning heavily and confidently) but I went looking for Fett climbing his ladder and I think I found him. I think it was once in this order... I have read about Kershner cut the film then Lucus did a cut because he disagreed with it and then everybody said your cut makes no sense George so Kershner had to cut it again...  Anyway not a suggestion but consider it a window into what it was perhaps originally intended to be or was planned to be.... I still have a open mind on this part of the film. But I share a small but perhaps significant point about this part. Tempo Changes are allowed are they not? :)

Whoops might be 2 bars behind... Basically where I put the image of Han being locked in the cargo bay in my fun edit is the cue for the door opening.

This restored cue video from starwarz.com is totally incorrect... It does not take into account the scenes in a different order or gaps with no music. So there was a lead into the Slave 1 scene scene hmmmm.

http://vimeo.com/77064509

brimforge said:

hm, it would get more tension, if we see Fett checking the status on the carbonite, like Lando did before, then the viewer could hope our heroes are just in time to rescue Han ...

but only showing the block, well it isn't that meaningful, not sure how it was scripted, so maybe there is something one editor likes to try (see above)

 Check my link again... I have re-done the whole sequence...

Now I think I agree with you... But I did not have the resources to add it... But what about Boba fett pushing a button to close the cargo bay? A close up on his Glove or something?

The other thing is, it was really nagging me so I had to check the music cues... And I can't make up my mind if the special edition is 100% correct I think it may be lagging slightly behind where it should be....

Anyway enjoy the re-done version on the original link it sells the idea a lot better and C3-PO no longer screams "look out! behind you" as I think this is something else that was ruining the scene quite badly. I have had a go at trying to make it more emotive but it needs a lot more work and I won't do another one it's a much better effort though.

I am looking at it with a bit of an open mind because it would appear that the actual scene where Han is Loaded on to Slave 1 has a missing scene... This explains in the Gout the music for the Slave 1 scene being screwed up and cut short

It was meant to Have Fett climbing a ladder and saying "Seal it"

Also the whole Slave 1 sequence was meant to take place Just before the heroes ran through the door to try and save him from being carted off so it was moved because of script revision.

The special edition sorts the music problem out but also (This is the part I am not sure about...) Perhaps slows down the score so it joins the light saber duel and was perhaps never originally intended to?.

I was trying to sneak in something akin to what was in the script just before they get to the landing bay as a kind of 50/50... Half way house bit of both.

I was trying to show the Carbonite shrouded in the darkness of the cargo bay with the lights on the carbonite block would be the only visible light once the cargo door shut. But yeah bit dull perhaps... I was trying to get the emotional connection of Han and Leia. Han shrouded in the Dark like what will happen to him....

danny_boy said:

msycamore said:

I am stunned, actually shocked! Do you actually own a 4K projector!! Why haven't you told us before?!

I also own a laserdisc player(newly acquired), VHS and V2000 player too-quite happy to watch star wars on any of them.

 Without putting your purchase down....Brightness : 2000 Lumens

Seriously the price tag and the Lumens don't match up. Although bulb technology has improved massively the brightness is measured at 2000 candles. For Home theater that you could still enjoy during the day you need at least 4000 Lumens. So I am a bit miffed at Sony and there price tag is unreasonable pulling the wool over people eyes.

It should house at least a 4000 Lumen Bulb to be a bit more flexible at the price tag I saw.

But nice it can handle 4k resolution.... It's very niche in that regard.

I Thought I would post this here as I suppose it is a suggestion for ESB and although I have absolutely no hard feelings on it, it is simply a concept and for that matter it is not finished audio but a rough concept edit.

Fact of the matter is, I am not even sure about it and I am not nagging for ideas but thought I would share it. But as far as a concept goes and considering you lot have a Han in Carbonite prop, I thought I would share the concept with you which was inspired from the shooting script of ESB. And if you wanted to perhaps have an extra shot of that Prop that is in ESB then I can think of no better opportunity. It's Cheap but simple and fairly effective.

Han aboard Slave 1

http://vimeo.com/123446198

The main point is the only reason I got this idea was to try to improve emotional impact of the failing to get to slave 1 in time would / does it work or not???

Don't know what it means for music cues either but as far as having a quick bit of fun yeah it is what it is.

EDIT: Theatrical mix might be more correct and SE mix is not a proper restored music cue??....  Again I don't know for sure....

billychaz said:

How do we distinguish between  the Clones

 If you look hard enough there are a few differences...

There is actually an Attack of the Clowns DVD but I cannot find the real film cover :P

you know those Clone films that try to pretend to be the actual film you want to watch and it is a low budget not even related film.

Liking that too...

Is the sky meant to be blue though on those opening shots?

It might be more correct in raw than you think....

I'd say this is also not quite right too bright but give this one another go....

hairy_hen said:

I really like your music, thanks for sharing it.  ;)

By the way, when recording an orchestra with that many microphones and no acoustic barriers between them, how do you take phase issues into account?  From a casual glance it seems like it would be an out of phase nightmare with all the bleed . . .

 I think Mike does the composing... but I guess you would have to phase reverse some mic input channels either by the phase button on the desk or using a cable that reverses the phase if you don't have the option on the desk..

Mike you are doing wonderful work Keep it up! I am really enjoying your videos.

Get this...

I Saw this in the Star Wars Visual Dictionary.... Is this for real like it was a 1997 Ditched special edition idea?

We Have the Probe Droid looking from a far using different vision modes to detect the shield generator. I can imagine the Probe droid Head spinning / turning and then being shown various image scans inter-cut with the probe droid prop...It seems like it is legit or at least part of Lucus R&D for the special edition? Or is it just made up?.

There is a music cue listed as "2M4 The Probe Scanner" which comes after Luke's Rescue .....

^ That's what happens when you hire Lousy Digital to do your restoration work for you :)

Although with that said I would probably advocate that process be done on the crest of Vaders Helmet in the shots mysycamore posted to stop Vader looking super imposed and sort out the lighting issues.

Shame they could not darken where it was actually needed but also overblow shots way beyond what they were originally intended to be. It's actually quite a basic thing brightness and contrast and they failed miserably on probably one of the most basic processes to getting film to look the same throughout.

The Brightness and contrast leaps around willy nilly as does color saturation levels between stock transfer of GOUT and SE.

It's all over the place. And what makes it worse is you have multiple layers in the Star wars which possibly never conformed to one another in the first place. Each need there own separate handling for instance foreground and background then for any additional overlays like Lightsabers or Flashes or what not need to be re-done as cherry's on top as they don't conform to any reality of film in so much as these go on last and are not lumped in with the footage. It's not that complicated but it is much more work than a standard restoration.

Here's that Lighting Fix... I would not be opposed to some revisionism there...

Same fix done to Gout... Gout looks superior. The Special edition manages to make him look more super imposed even with the lighting fix to his helmet just in general his whole body looks like he has been stuck on there.

Both the Brightness and the contrast on the special edition version have been drastically reduced giving him this super imposed look. That is the main problem. Here is the special edition matched to the gouts brightness and contrast with a bit of color correction this is what I think it should look like or something like this. THere is also the problem of the cyan light which is a bad choice considering he is not surrounded by cyan lights. and the color light does not match the background.

Basically I think he has been recomposited on this shot because you cannot get him to settle in to the background without altering him separately. There is also the circular hole under his chin where we can see through his head out the other side to a piece of the background

So I noticed there was a total eclipse recently on some island and then the Idea struck me and a vision unfolded in my imagination.

What better way to hide the Death Star 2 in a battle than behind a solar eclipse. The Death Star being behind the Planet and the light behind the death star. We also get quite a bit of symbolism from an image like this like the light is fading and darkness will prevail. I was imagining as the planet would cross the star the Death Star 2 would emerge into it's Black Heart. I think it's an image that movie goers would not forget in a long time and well I have to say that it could really have it all and be something that could really bring a massive epic feel, fantastical and symbolism also quite magical in an elementary way. The Dark Side of the force conjured in an image and deceitful by nature hiding in the shadows.

But with that said I like the direction you are heading in and I thought I would throw this vision I had at you as a perhaps artistic direction if it fits with what you are trying to achieve. It seems that you wanted to create more of a surprise for the death star 2 and I think this really could be a shocker that people would not forget. But it all really depends on what you want to achieve and how far you want to go.

If you wanted the Death Star 2 to threaten to obliteterate Coruscant (Equivalent to obliterating all civilization) then not only will you have a frame of reference for the death star 2 position in space but also from the ground up from innocents on  Coruscant people looking up at a solar eclipse.

It's a diifferent way of showing the countdown timer from A new Hope I suppose in that reference but done in a quite mystical fashion rather than technological readout. And it's actually a bit scary too. I mean where would everyone be looking during a solar eclipse. Up in the sky.

The Land goes Dark and then goodbye baby BOOOM! Or will the Sun shine again?

SilverWook said:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Secret-Screening-of-The-Empire-Strikes-Back-London-March-June-to-August-Tickets-sold-in-March/topic/17537/

 Ah sorry but they went on sale today....And they are selling fast...Merge if you like or can...

Cheers Ryan, Sounds like great fun and seeing as It's one of my much loved films I just knabbed myself a ticket to go with a few friends.

Don't tell anybody though :)

Now you tell me Blade Runner has been and gone... God Damn it, I can imagine that would have been pretty cool. people walking around with fluorescent umbrellas and Chinese people with pointy hats on bicycles?

men?.... Police men?....

Just a quick heads up about the secret cinema event running in London over this summer.

Adult Tickets are about £80.00.... Not Cheap but I have heard from friends that it is a blast and a lot of fun.

http://www.secretcinema.org/

Tickets are selling fast in spite of price tag.

http://www.secretcinema.org/tickets/

Excellent Job!!!

Although I may be 2 steps behind, I had no way of knowing if it had been addressed but it's wonderful to see it and it's better than I ever imagined it could look.

I can only echo the sentiments of others and thank you once again for your Hard work and dedication. Although I have been trying my hand at color correction but not for editing purposes.... it is a skill I wished to learn for balancing video walls so I have an ulterior motive and Hoth being the color nightmare it is I felt may as well chuck myself in the deep end and learn something.

But I also feel I have learned something else and as I began the process of trying to color correct and learning a bit of how to do the process it slowly became apparent and dawned on me.....

It's only projects of this sort and particularly Star Wars Revisited that will bring us the film as It was intended to be... I don't Have much faith in an overhauled release from Disney or Lucusfilm. It won't even scratch the surface of the depth that this project offers up or for that matter Luke's Goggles. It's self explanatory, simple, Beautiful and all encompassing vision of this project is more than any of us could wish for, and i am forever grateful and in your debt.

DF Shadow said:

Its amazing what a little toning down and desaturation can do here and there.

 Absolutely and although Ady's color correction is Hands down or should I say Hands up Lovely and Amazing The film not only jumps about in terms of Brightness and contrast across the footage SE and Stock Footage transfer but also in terms of over Saturation of Red when it is not a SE shot.

So nothing bad to say about the process Ady has employed it's really working wonders only to say watch out for the Red saturation leaping up on Stock Transfer shots Lukes skin tones are the real give away on this.

There is also one last thing I noticed about this aspect and I'll be honest I am a little perplexed by it on this shot.

There is a glowing light in the top image on the gout. My immediate thought was Oh it's the sun. When I watched the shot it does appear to be the sun but as the camera pans across the light seems to vanish upwards whilst the camera does not seem to pan down. If you alter the brightness and contrast on the SE the glowing light re-appears so it's not been removed the brightness too high and contrast is too low in the SE here I guess.

But I am not sure if it's the Sun for real in the footage or an added effect of the sun by Sfx?

Anyway it's something that made me a little curious about what it actually is or is it just an error of some kind?

Harmy said:

Why does the thread need any action, if there's nothing new to discuss concerning its topic?

 There is always things to talk about and there is also good reason to talk about stuff. Forgive me but I used part of your stills for a comparison. And I have been looking at your work too :)

Notice all the horrible Red Blotches in the Helmet and how red the shadow of the cockpit is... Also notice how Bright Orange his goggles are. Massively over bright recomp too.

So putting the colors in a more natural state De-saturating yellow and Red in spots and altering the Brightness and contrast darkening red Hues and trying to look at this image as if I was really there this is what I think it should look like in terms of a more real approach.  How can nobody spot all the Horrible red and purple blotches all over his helmet though?

Yes I know how that sounds Frink :)

We Have the foreground layer in the Gout as more or less correct  but the background footage out the window looks awful. I probably excised a bit too much Red though.

So in the Special Edition we have a totally screwed up foreground image of Luke but a much better looking Background that was re-done.

This is the best blend I could do... Like it or not it warms me up that It can be fixed up and look like real footage but it's all about de-saturation of the recomposites and getting there brightness and contrast to match with the rest of the footage. Or at the very least I think it goes a way towards getting a much more natural color to these offenders where the shots were re-done.

EDIT:

I had to re-do it as there was many color hues in the Shadow purple Red and Blue that should not be there. And there is still some that should not be there around his chin.

Head Like a hole...masked in Helmet detail to properly fix the Black hole in Lukes Head probably impossible? but one can dream. There is a number of shots where the bridge of Lukes goggles is missing also in other cockpit shots. that one is a simple fix though. on this shot though the bridge is solid black rather than being missing.

Ok here is a subject that could use some debate or at least I think it could do with thrashing out with some expert opinions, for which I am not an expert but I notice stuff and like to ask questions about how things make me feel.

So upon looking at various pieces of footage / stills from the preservation threads here and Revisited and the Gout and SE versions of ESB I ask the simple question How to brightness and contrast balance across segments Hoth exterior shots or shots with excessive glare or over bright?

Although I think the colors are really great in revisited is there an inherrant problem with brightness and contrast particularly in the Hoth portion of ESB carried over from the Blu Ray Transfer? Is Revisited too Bright?

Some Gout shots were actually quite murky lighting whilst the Blu Ray makes those shots much brighter (boosted) particularly on re-composited shots.

Although it is quite simple to turn the brightness up or down, how bright should it be? 

Is there a way to Balance the brightness and contrast for consistancy?

Whilst removing Pink and Blue tints how does that effect the whites?

Should it be balanced for brightness / contrast first and then color corrected particularly when shots are over bright?

Can a more natural looking brightness be even achieved with the Blu Ray Transfer without ruining the colors also?

I don't really understand what this LUT is or what it does or how to apply it...

But what I will say is that this is the best looking footage I have seen. It all feels there and the colors look right. Barring errors that need a replacement due to technological limitations badly lit composites.

Hat's off.... But how does it work on Battlefield Hoth? i.e. Purple / pink blown out cockpits and alike?

That is really the ultimate test for it as it is a color correcting nightmare whilst trying to eliminate the Blue tint and boosted brightness other elements suffer greatly especially the Lasers / Flak Bursts explosions and so on (Hand painted).

In my mind that is the real test for this luts, but I like it Luts... I mean lots.

Edit: looks far too bright though... Compensate for the brightness and the contrast boosting less bright bit more contrast and I think it will be just a bit better taking off some of the garishness it's a small touch mind. Color looks grand though. BTW I am looking at Luke with Red Light sabre picture.

Example

Perhaps overdone with brightness contrast? might need a dip in yellow hue? But this looks dark in the right way now I think.

This one has some yellow removed... Perhaps too much but I think it's somwhere around here that it strikes the right medium. Gimp Settings

Brightness - 14

Contrast +2

Color Balance

Shadow +3 blue (-3 Yellow)

Midtones + 3 / 2 Blue (-3/2 Yellow)

Highlights +1 Red (optional) +3 Blue (-3 Yellow)

But I can see a real potential in this process you are doing and I have to say I am quite excited by it it seems like it could be the way forward perhaps but let's see it work on those pink blown out cockpit flashes and then we will be sure. This may mean you Blue filter is too strong giving up too much yellow?

The +3 Blue highlight is important giving the ice a natural look assuming you applied the same LUT to this shot. Needless to say I am very excited about how the image intensity now appears. This shot uses exactly the same settings applied in gimp as the extremely dark indoor shot.

I also listened to a podcast regarding Luts and I now have a much better understanding of what it is all about. If you can can emulate the cameras that filmed the film initially as your standard Lut and then it would be great but the problem really is the footage is not Raw. But it might be worth creating a number of Luts depending on environment, lighting and dodgy color tints for various shots and using a bit of artistic license perhaps too.

This seemed still too garish to me though so I reduced the brightness and contrast by another -14 and +3 and fiddled with the red and magenta more dull day and natural look the green goggles gives a lot away.

.Mac. said:

The part I was talking about happens at 6:36, which is where I thought Ronster's mockup would be implemented, if at all. If something should be edited there, it should include editing the AT-AT to appear it is closer to the snowspeeder. 

The part you're talking about is at 6:33, which I'd say you're also right, the AT-AT should probably appear closer there too, just slightly (simply trimming small portions of the frame may work). I guess to me, the incorrect placement of the AT-AT at 6:36 was always so glaringly noticeable that the part you bring up didn't faze me :)

 153. INT LUKE'S SNOWSPEEDER - ROGUE LEADER

LUKE'S POV out cockpit window of giant walker feet crunching even closer. The ship shudders under the impact of the huge metal feet pounding the ice plain.

Ok here is a possible explaination....

The shot where the AT-AT appears in the sequence is way high in the frame... This is what it looks like when you would put a cockpit over that shot...This fixes the perspective but Eeewwww it would have been a pretty nasty transparent cockpit on a static shot with the technology limits that they had. So they Spliced this shot without the Bluescreen cockpit overlayed when Luke Looks before going to the back of his speeder. Think about how that alters distances and times and you also get another piece of the puzzle along with it Alswell as a Jump cut removal of luke unstrapping seatbelt.

I Challenged you 2 Ray and Mac and I can't believe you did not get it but I suppose it's not obvious but I tried to give you a few big clues about this.

Anyway that is what I think might be going on and why some of it is edited the way it is or it is my best guess.

SilverWook said:

Ronster said:

SilverWook said:

There is a grand tradition of deception and misdirection in the production of a Star Wars film. Dave Prowse was given phony dialog to say on ESB, and there were fake script pages on Return of the Jedi.

It's not a stretch to imagine J.J. doing this one better, and shoot fake scenes.

 Your saying the teaser trailer is fake? or some of it is fake?

 No. I'm saying it's easy to shoot a fake death scene. Remember when J.R. Ewing's shooter was revealed on Dallas? Most of the cast was filmed doing the deed to prevent the truth from leaking out before the episode aired.

The Simpsons went to the trouble of animating just about every character shooting Mr. Burns to keep everyone in the production pipeline in the dark.

Very few people outside J.J. and the actors know what actually happens in the movie.

 Sarlac pit kills Han did'nt you know :) and then it burps.

SilverWook said:

There is a grand tradition of deception and misdirection in the production of a Star Wars film. Dave Prowse was given phony dialog to say on ESB, and there were fake script pages on Return of the Jedi.

It's not a stretch to imagine J.J. doing this one better, and shoot fake scenes.

 Your saying the teaser trailer is fake? or some of it is fake?