Ronster

You know when Luke pulls up to the burning Lars homestead…

The POV shot from the landspeeder has the glass dome removed.

when we cut back to the reverse angle we see Luke behind the glass dome in the cockpit.

Not sure if you fancy fixing this one I’ll just leave it as an observation I made and if you feel like having a go at fixing that one then cool.

ncskye said:

Hey folks,

So here is my question, what if in 1997 George Lucas just cleaned up the deleted scenes, added them back into the original films, and nothing else?

I have been looking at this for quite some time perhaps 2 years on and off and it’s not as straight forward as you might think.

Adding the deleted scenes back in radically changes the opening of the film amongst other cut’s and splices when you start to deep dive it is not only deleted material but even in existing material within the film is in the incorrect order especially gun battles or repeated sections of film and audio synch issues.

To say the deleted scenes do not belong in the film I would agree that with Jabba the scene is totally obsolete. Luke and Biggs are not however and I think that this is something worth trying to achieve.

To understand how these scenes work was and still is a long process. It is a slightly different film but not that different, but different enough to make it a different experience,

Hal 9000 said:

We do finish with Saruman in TTT, but I don’t think the TTT Rivendell scenes between Arwen and Aragorn are there at all. I could be wrong, but I think he removed them.

Ok Cheers for the reply…

Those scenes in the flashback need to be in TFOR to make Aragorns line about “Arwen going to the grey havens” from the gift giving scenes at Loth Lorien make sense.

So it seems you have included the full gift giving scenes but without that scene being present in FOTR it does not make sense even in the extended edition this makes no sense without the Scene placed correctly back before they leave. It’s also why Arwen looks so sad when the fellowship depart.

Just saying I’m not even sure if Arwen Leaving for the Grey havens should be in ROTK but in TTT instead.

How’s things coming along?

I’ve been busy with work but plan to get back on this soon in terms of sound mixing.

as Far as the opening goes I have to do sound for Luke Binoculars do you think if we cut from the planet surface to space instead of Panning down it would pan up from the planet to space?

There is more tattooine planet matte painting to achieve this more than is shown in the film anyway.

I have sorted out somewhat the music and sound for an escape pod being destroyed before they are clamped in this was to go in the fanfare that plays on Star Destroyer coming over the tantive this also solves the “There goes another one” gunner line issue.

I have a soundmix somewhat prepared for Tosche station scene where Luke runs into the bar. I think the cut music from the radio drama when Han and Luke part ways at Yavin Base when they are loading boxes is possibly a music cue for Luke having the binoculars chucked at him. I say this because it sounds very similar to the escape pod going towards Tattooine music cue but obviously this cue would then take us back up to the Tantive IV and captured princess Leia. I have a piece of music that I think will work well for the bar scene also.

Do you have the extra shot where they leave the bar in your possession? from what I understand it is quite low quality it’s not necessarily needed but it’s an extra shot…

Do you think when Luke runs up the stairs towards the Bar we should see the escape pod in the sky?

https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/783244488

^ Here is my final go at the Vader Scene and I included the Treadwell being shot edit to show how I think it was meant to go also. I hope you like my final take on this 😃

These sound interesting although like you have pointed out The 1st post assumes that we all know what “Kerrs” edit already is and you have expanded on them…

I dug about in FOTR and found a better way to do the 1st half of the film which is much better structured but I’d be interested in seeing the extended versions as were originally intended.

That means the flash back in The Two Towers of Rivendell goes back to FOTR
Saurman is killed at the end of The Two towers not the start of ROTK

These two things would be the major things I would be looking for. Is it like this in Kerrs edits?

https://www.slashfilm.com/613297/the-best-guillermo-del-toro-characters-ranked/

Del Toro is thinking about asking Phil Tippet to help do at the mountains of Madness in stop motion and contemplating doing the whole film as a stop motion film.

Good idea I reckon.

Pre-Vis from scrapped at the mountains of madness a decade ago.

https://www.empireonline.com/movies/news/guillermo-del-toro-shares-at-the-mountains-of-madness-footage/

He’s considering agreeing to a PG-13 version which would still be good to se this project finally put to film yet If you are going to do a kid’s horror flick perhaps it should not be made at all? Or you produce a Harder R-Rated version as well as a softer kids version.

I think studios, although they do the numbers and economics. I can’t see hordes of kids flocking to an Antarctic Horror flick in their droves, so I’ll say no point on making kiddie horror flicks make proper horror flicks and be done with it.

Also to see this I think it’s a shoggoth? Nothing wrong with the design that’s pretty cool but if it was to be done this way it would have been pretty lame. Seeing to much of the creature no mystery about it’s form, the angles. It should be done in a way that rarely show’s the creature as a whole showing the various parts in a more close up fashion I feel. Anyway it’s a previz of a rig.

https://textualvariations.substack.com/p/lynch-dune-4hourcut

This is a very interesting article on the history of the many cut’s of Dune and the Unrealised and unknown Directors cut.

https://www.thepropgallery.com/dune-john-dykstras-visual-effects-breakdown-binder

Apogee (John Dykstra) production binder before they left the production and another Effects house Van der Veer took over

https://www.thepropgallery.com/dune-apogee-production-used-storyboards

Found the story board for Keynes (Max Von Sydow) death scene spice blow perhaps this was to go with the water of life from the baby worm scenes?

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/dune-465-storyboards-copy-private-1820640753

This site also has many storyboards and some real interesting ones too. Angels seen in Pauls Dream. Jessica floating in the water. It shows the hole on the Heighliner was meant to be where the Navigator was to come out obviously missing effects on that one too. Paul Atreides puking Earth wind and fire. Navigators swarming Pauls face There is some fascinating stuff there.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ExGnAHqWYAkVcvc.png

Fullmetaled said:

I wish the original film prints of the extended edition of the lord of the rings trilogy were out there and somebody could scan them in 4k and the cgi effects as well. so we’d get a release without digital tinkering and with a proper Dolby vision hdr grade. 😦

Yeah I kind of wish for that but the extended edits of the films are not the true extended edition and not how they were originally conceived.

Whilst not wanting to take anything away from Dr Dre’s work here… To assemble the original extended cuts of the films would be the holy grail to fans I think yet there is nothing that can be done about this as the deleted scenes are suppressed and remain under tight lock and key.

This is my reconstruction of the original prologue with the original music… However Gil Gallad is not included as how could I do that? But aside from that it’s not a bad attempt at restoring how it could have went before they chopped it up.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/lganhntmh5if2k4/One_Prologue_to_rule_them_all.mp4/file

I would hope if Dr Dre attempted the extended editions he would put a bit of a different hat on although there is only so much that could be done to restore the Original extended versions never released but something could be done it’s just a very tricky impossible thing but you could get it some of the way there. And some of the way there might bring the film makers back again 😃

SpookyDollhouse said:

Ronster said:

SpookyDollhouse said:

I feel if this actually got off the ground he’d inevitably reconstruct his 4 hour cut as it was before Fox went in and did their own thing. Cuz as we know they pushed him around on set but he did what he could in the editing room before the top dogs went “nope.” I don’t think anything SFX would get changed really. Lynch isn’t super into that sort of thing to be honest.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments the fact of the matter is let’s take for instance I think it’s the 6th Draft after the Jamis fight. The Fremen with paul and Jessica set out from the rocks at dawn and go to “Sietch Tabar” chani points whilst they walk in the desert and says (sorry if there is spelling mistake) “Sietch Tabar” So this relies on having an image of this place which they may or may not have filmed. Although you could say ok don’t include the scene because we don’t have the fantastical location that does not exist. Of course it can be remedied by creating it. These sorts of films are like chicken and the egg. You can argue all day which one came first but the reality is that the egg needs the chicken just as much as the chicken needs the egg.

A Special effects film needs special effects constantly and consistantly especially one like Dune with blue eyes roto in on loads of shots but the actors and the performances are just as important. The World is important and that is something Dune did tremendously well with it’s production design.

I think the amount of work it probably would requite is daunting but at the same time it makes it much more plausible that people would want to have a go because it would be a challenge and that makes it more credible. A challenge is something that people can get behind.

It’s a beautiful film and exists how it is and doesn’t “need” anything visually redone to it. I stand by the notion that all Lynch would do is restore his initial cut and leave the rest be. He might request some minor seam corrections like what recently happened to Poltergeist but that’s all I’d realistically see. Everything else is do-it-cuz-we-can-current-year brand presentism tbh.

I don’t mind you havig that opinion at all.

Did you read the Ron Miller Article? Where he says that the effects budget was totally chopped down before they had even started shooting the effects scenes…

The physical shoot was all in the can. He was one of the main artists on the shoot.

He said that there are key effect scenes missing. That is his opinion and from his knowledge of being there. Do you think David Lynch would put the Blue eyes on the Fremen and stuff or just not bother?

I think he would but I’d like to know why you think he would not color in the Fremen eyes blue like he did before?

I myself looked at this problem previously regarding Ron Millers Comments and how to try and not CGI the film or as little as possible…

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0lJoQSDKPas/YTJqGvv5QTI/AAAAAAABppY/aJDUJ0J7vAAVaZunZShSmKCD7aQyGhKoQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1978/Dune-1984-concept-art-Ron-Miller-01-1978x799.jpg

Production art of Caladan

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uXUIzttOji8/W90XRObPhFI/AAAAAAAAr-k/2n9P5mtR0cMbJRWxxKpBEbnKABqUl_5lgCKgBGAs/s640/The%2BIsland%2Bvlcsnap-00507.jpg

Good Match by original Special effects artist Albert Whitlock from “The Island”

The Way West by Albert Whitlock

https://images.saymedia-content.com/.image/t_share/MTc2Mjk0ODAwNzc2MzczNDIx/albert-whitlock-hollywood-matte-artist.jpg

Creating Sietch Tabar

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/2091/3pvyixeomp8b929zg.jpg?size_id=a

These 2 I think were pretty good Ideas and it would retain the Albert Whitlock look whilst also creating shot’s that they may not have. I appreciate there could be rights issues over attempting something like this but I think it would be a better approach than CGI it’s a sort of pseudo CGI but for good reason and a good cause. Extraordinary circumstances call for extraordinary measures. So It’s possible to do things without going down some horrible revisionary crusade and try to fill any blanks in a modest and more genuine fashion whilst retaining the look of the original film.

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/178c/ayp9e4qth16qch8zg.jpg?size_id=5

This Ron Miller painting may have been the “Weather… See Storms” visual for the film book. I’m not sure but it would have been better with that I feel.

The Key Special effects… I don’t know what they are exactly but I have a strong feeling the Heighliners dissolving in simply as a transparent object is nothing like what Lynch had planned. I Believe that the Image of the Heighliner was to be projected on to a water tank and then you put a drop of water to disturb and distort the image until it settles. Then you take that footage and dissolve that blurred distorted Heighliner in with the water ripple effect over your matte painting of the destination. Thus creating or showing that displacement in time and space. There are shots in the film that do use this technique it simply was not applied to the Heighliner arriving at Arrakis.

Let’s look at the trip to Arrakis in more detail…

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/--emqOm4S7qM/YTJqIRY-bHI/AAAAAAABppo/2nyUHwcAi008ucRAP1y1W2mrMOVkVIHUQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1979/Dune-1984-concept-art-Ron-Miller-07-1979x862.jpg

Here we can clearly see what Caladan was to look like.

https://preview.redd.it/pdvvqo9vyez71.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=fd8a7f57f639207d8704e5396458435aa466d172

Here is the Original Painting from the film book.

So looking at the film this does not look correct at all in terms of Color.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gVEQRj_WJG4/maxresdefault.jpg

It’s almost as if that is also Arrakis in the background and if you were to travel without moving you would change everything around the Heighliner without touching the Matte painting of the Heighliner. So the one constant would be the tube like ship and everything else changes around it? Can you see what I mean it sort of feels like the whole way this sequence works is incorrect. It’s still lovely in it’s own right but I could see potentially a numerous different ways that this could of or should have gone.

Either the ship is the dissolving distorted object if you are at the location and it is arriving or if you “travel without moving” then all of the exterior planet elements distort and dissolve so everything else changes around the Heighliner vessel ship.

SpookyDollhouse said:

I feel if this actually got off the ground he’d inevitably reconstruct his 4 hour cut as it was before Fox went in and did their own thing. Cuz as we know they pushed him around on set but he did what he could in the editing room before the top dogs went “nope.” I don’t think anything SFX would get changed really. Lynch isn’t super into that sort of thing to be honest.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments the fact of the matter is let’s take for instance I think it’s the 6th Draft after the Jamis fight. The Fremen with paul and Jessica set out from the rocks at dawn and go to “Sietch Tabar” chani points whilst they walk in the desert and says (sorry if there is spelling mistake) “Sietch Tabar” So this relies on having an image of this place which they may or may not have filmed. Although you could say ok don’t include the scene because we don’t have the fantastical location that does not exist. Of course it can be remedied by creating it. These sorts of films are like chicken and the egg. You can argue all day which one came first but the reality is that the egg needs the chicken just as much as the chicken needs the egg.

A Special effects film needs special effects constantly and consistantly especially one like Dune with blue eyes roto in on loads of shots but the actors and the performances are just as important. The World is important and that is something Dune did tremendously well with it’s production design.

I think the amount of work it probably would requite is daunting but at the same time it makes it much more plausible that people would want to have a go because it would be a challenge and that makes it more credible. A challenge is something that people can get behind.

If we go by the actual pacing employed on the actual Werewolf shot’s it’s a pretty sure thing that it would be pretty much over in a flash and a “Jump Scare” what ever it was. The Outtakes of the wolf running through Picadilly put text all over them rather than leave them as raw. That to me says the following.

1. They don’t want that footage being used by people to make their own versions of the film.
2. They might actually want to do it themselves one day

The Wheelbarrow Werewolf shot with a guy palming along in a suit is pretty impressive and it goes quite a while possibly the longest in duration of the wolf, and I guess they know the very things we have been talking about.

Request “We want a bit more of the Wolf!”

“Ok, but It’s our Wolf not yours”

Bit of a Bummer too really.

Well the point of the transformation scene was to break the mold entirely and do it like it’s never been done so yeah good shout on it perhaps being less bright but that really was the challenge not to hide in the shadows and be really shocking and not be tied into that cliche of following a standard horror formula.

And going back to the Alex Kitner raft plan view shot… Obviously the Silhouette would not have been Bruce mechanical shark but probably hand drawn animation of the Silhouette.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWglVLx5mp8

But I hope that sort of helps explain my views on less is more until you end up with actually less than you should have… Happens all the time though using other footage to cover up what you don’t have or can’t have or simply can not get to work.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the shot of the Raft underwater only that we stay on that for far too long and the Music does not match as it’s building we needed to change perspective about 3 or 4 times in the build up to the sad moment Alex Kitners life is taken. That does not mean we need to see anymore gore either only that the Pacing is way off and it seems they had no alternatives.

Yeah "bullshit’ I contemplated getting an old VHS and then just understood there was no point… There won’t be any differences except the red phone booth scene seemed to be omitted in some versions where he calls home to America. In other versions it was reinstated.

But those small little extra shots do feel pretty genuine although I think or atleast it looks like they shot it and then changed the design of the werewolf a bit? I think Rick Baker ended up modeling it a bit off of his pet dog in the final iteration. So I think there could be some truth that it was trimmed a bit but only like as in that clip.

So to make the actual thing work in terms of continuity it would require giving the werrwolf either a bit of a face lift or perhaps simply darkening the shot. It works that bit better I feel with the small werewolf snippets. It is a good conversation this because it highlights how delicate film making is and how a single shot can really change a scene for better or for worse. Similarly getting the music and the sound right are equally important. I think Landis made a good choice to not have Elmer Bersteins “Metamorphasis” score however it seems to me that it works amazingly at the start especiallly the hand stretching part. It is possible that a simple shot of a Radio in the flat was needed to transition to “blue moon” so both would be included. Starting Intense and then the more satirical black comedy element. You never know with these sorts of things. I reckon it would have been a “Roberts Radio” if that was the idea.

Anyway this film in terms of actually requiring these changes it is not the case. It could be a small bit better but not by much.

Restoring Dune or even I suppose Reconstructing Dune would be a massive undertaking in comparison. It is possibly more complicated than “The Good the Bad the Ugly” and “Lawrence of Arabia” combined.

But if we consider “AWIL” I think yearning to see a bit more of Rick Bakers wolf Is natural, but only a slight bit more I think would have been good.

With Dune the same principle needs to be applied only a slight bit more. If any CGI reconstruction absolutely has to happen to make it work then it should look of the time and be seemless. I don’t think anyone wants another Star Wars on there hands altough both films are showing that disjointed lack of Special effect. The less of it employed the better only what is needed with zero ectravagence.

Showing less is sometimes more but less can also be truly less. If we take for instance Jaws which truly did a good job of less is more except the Alex Kitner death scene. Instead of the camera coming closer to the raft underwater this was meant to be a plan view of the raft and the Silhouette of the shark circling around. The same technique is employed in Dune when Atreidies reach Arrakis. Instead of the big scale shots we end up with “the prophecy” a lesser incarnation of what it was intended to be. So when you replace the big scale vast shots you end up with truly less. That is a fact.

The only other Special effect dropped from jaws was to have Chief Brody reflected in the sharks Black eye.

Otherwise I think Jaws got the balance about right and the shark not working was a gift.

Hmmm yes Jenny was quite a rose was’nt she 😃

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doveZaHMj2U

The Film so Badly needs a complete soundtrack release I think perhaps with a bit of Audio Book Dialogue or Something.

Well I suppose we can deviate a bit from Lynch and Dune.

Here is the things I found recently regarding American Werewolf…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2RdEQ3GhyY

^ Teaser Trailer

Here is a Version of the Tramp scene with some stuff changed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJQ0UXfK-Mg

I think that is pretty good to be honest

This next one was ok but it needed to trimmed down properly to include the werewolf before he says “Good Lord…”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFkpEiWf3rE

• The Subway Kill Re-Edit like the BLack and white shot needs coloring in though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bbmLnu2g8I

^Elmer Bernstein Score Metamorphasis alternate taken from Michael Jacksons Thriller also directed by Landis and scored by Bernstein

Yes the things you mention also sound interesting about the Glowing Eyes and the Attack on the Moors and the copper in the gutter… I think the same thing was meant to be in the Subway Tunnel the glowing eyes.

Songs that were requested to be in the film but refused rights

Cat Stevens “Moon Shadow” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c49aDWrzeA
Bob Dylan “Blue Moon” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNZNxcW80es

The Ominous Warren Zevon “werewolves of London” Fit’s right in too how in the hell was that not in also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qae25976UgA

The Meco Albumn impressions of an American werewold in London included Alice Cooper “No more mister nice guy” aswell as an orchestration called “the boys” which is fantastic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFg2VirraLY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR1jTaZILTM

You guessed It I really like the Audio stuff but yeah there you go 😃

That is the sad thing with films that you can know about stuff that was filmed and imagine what it might have been like yet also have no way of knowing what it actually was like…

I think like American Werewolf in London the out’s and trims have been binned off. Think about that for a moment a successful film like American Werewolf in London had it’s deleted scenes tossed in the bin.

Now with American Werewolf it’s not anything that is ruining the film but the things that are said to have been deleted are quite obscure like.

Teaser Trailer shows cut scene of rain puddles and werewolf paw dunking in. This is obviously to do with Jack and David straying from the path.

Jack as a zombie in the Hospital talking to David eats a piece of toast and it falls out his throat (unreleased)
.
When David wakes up in the Zoo in the wolfs den he was to spit out the bankers finger he killed (unreleased).

Snippets of the werewolf were cut on the underground of the wheelbarrow werewolf showing it coming around the corner of a tunnel and at the bottom of an escalator… This is on the dvd.

Then there is the infamous tramp scene which as far as I have been able to decipher had the werewolf with a tramp on a car bonnet mauling him (Unreleased) There is a also a pushback that this scene is a complete fabrication and never filmed. This scene was shot though down by tower bridge at the Guoman tower hotel I can see the filming location.

Lastly the decapitated man in Picadilly Circus you see the reverse angle of his head bouncing off a car bonnet which was cut and is on the dvd.

These things are small don’t hurt the film but sure make you want to see them but the ones released and on the DVD are not as nearly interesting as the ones you heard about that you never saw.

So with these things always bear in mind that it could be poor and deleted for a good reason but it does not help you from wanting to see it.

Tossed in the bin the outs and trims are for American Werewolf you will never see the Tramps the Bankers finger being spat out in the zoo or the tRamp being mauled on top of a car bonnet. THEY HAD THE FILM THE REST WAS NOT REQUIRED!

Highlander however is a genuine loss of material the out’s and trims burned down in a fire and the audio was also lost.

This has the whole extended recording of the soundtrack lost in good quality and numerous scenes like

Mcleoad and Kastigir talking in the nightclub bar
Kurgen fighting with a security guard in an office building

Although some footage was found and included on the DVD these 2 scenes and especially the lost fight in the office would be lost forever but images remain of this actually being shot and having been once part of the film.
It’s a real shame that this can never be recovered. This is a genuine lost material rather than throwing it in the bin but it’s the same effect. I want to see this stuff wether it burned in a fire or it was thrown in a bin.

https://imgur.com/oKBgFM1

ok thanks for your reply, as in the holochess board without the composited chess pieces looks as intended at least that seems to be the purpose of the statement on unfinished effects. To have un-blighted footage not subjected to an optical printer which would not exactly reproduce the same original image after the composite…

Found an article on I09 with Ron Miller Production artist

https://gizmodo.com/i-made-the-spice-flow-my-work-as-a-concept-artist-on-l-1509730566

Ron Miller says this.

"My copy is the one of the last shooting scripts. And, of course, I have a somewhat better idea than most where Lynch was going.

Spicediver has done a remarkable job…indeed, I helped to an extent by providing blueprints of the spacecraft and other material. The only problem for anyone doing this is that they are limited to the available live action footage.

Of course, it would be ideal if Lynch himself were to reconstruct the film. But given that the chances of this are pretty much nil, there are enough extant notes and other material that someone knowledgeable enough could do a creditable job."

“The reason for the opening is that so much got cut from the film itself, it was the only way to reinstate the. Information.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsAx5CqNCRo

"I helped Sasha with this by providing copies of some of the drawings and art as well as blueprints of the spacecraft.

One of the problems with any fan restoration is that it has only the available live action to work with…which even in the “restored” versions is incomplete."

The Star Wars Purist said:

A lot of the unfinished FX shots in there could be great resources for fanedits!

What unfinished effects shots?

could someone list them out?

the holochess table shot looks better than in the film more vibrant.

It’s nice to finally see that!

I suppose if that alternative is inserted in the film, then we should not hear him squealing away in the background…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohGtZJrqVGg

This is the last shreds of info I can gain from this deep dive on Dune and what it might have been.

So in the Comic the Paul on Caladan looking at his film book, once we see Arrakis it goes on to mention the Palm trees that line the palace and how the Harkonnens flaunt their water wealth this I would assume is correct. This goes on to the weather and never one drop of rain on Arrakis That makes way for the Spice mining filmbook in Pauls room to be correctly placed. It is a shame this remains unreleased.

I have a feeling that the burning palm trees were to be a symbolic visual for the downfall of house Atredies in Pauls visions and the new 2021 version does this well to good effect.

The only other real other thing I can glean from the comic book adaptation is for when Kynes is killed and Paul starts to have his waking dream. Kynes when he has his suit ripped apart has an inner monologue about how “all his dreams of turning Arrakis into a paradise have come to nothing (dust?)” i think the mention of dreams is accurate for it is with dreams and waking dreams induced by the spice that possible futures are glanced at yet Paul seems to know which ones will come true.

When Paul has his Waking dream in the comic seems to suggest in the pictures the shots of the 2 moons with red smoke (Check German trailer) should go here and the moon cracking apart like an egg which comes much later only seen in the TV version I think. So this whole surreal sequence was rather different. This may also mean that some of the visions used in the waking dream as is released were meant to go when Paul lands by the Harvester with Leto and we hear “Spice, pure unrefined Spice”

Lastly the comic book includes Alias birth and being held up Rabaan in the bathtub and that seems correct as per the script and falsifying reports about Spice production at critical levels. This was the Secret report within the guild as originally intended before they pay a second visit to the emperor.

So thankyou for reading. Please let me know your thoughts on how things were changed or altered pleade look at the scripts the comicbook and anything else. I would love to hear your thoughts on what David Lynch’s vision might have been as only he can truly know but we can I think see the bit’s of it trickling through

Slavicuss said:

WXM said:

Michael Mann should also revisit THE KEEP.

This seems to sum up the issues…

https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/the-disappearance-of-michael-manns-the-keep/

Bummer.

Well the alternate ending is found but the Special effects are obviously “never got done”.

So it is possible to salvage what remains to be found is if they kept the rest of the cut footage for the Keep which is unlikely.

At least with Dune they have everything.

I would hope that also means Dino kept everything for Conan the Barbarian also. Which personally I would love to see all the outs and trims and an uncensored version. Probably my favourite film it’s hard to have a 100% favourite I think.

Found an interesting still from Austrailian collectors edition dvd.

https://www.duneinfo.com/giedi_prime/dune-australian-dvd/

What is that device on the wall? This is from Geidi Prime. I don’t recall that being in the film and I am wondering if it was say a sort of intercom. Would this be Thuffers prision cell?

There was to be a scene where Thuffer does his best to screw up the Harkonnans whilst he is in captivity although there was only so much he could do.

Edit ok that device is in the choam ornithopter it is in the film…

But I have figured something out.

Duncan was meant to have his own ship.

Paul looking up when talking to leto he saw him leaving.

He may have also of meant to see him get to Aarakis whilst dreaming while he is muttering travelling moving before he wakes.

When Leto is in Pauls room the guy who knocks on the door “Unknown Objects on screen” although it’s a bit of an edit if that was “Unknown OBJECT on screen” cut to duncans craft then Duncan greets Duke Leto so although the Harkonnen fleet are approaching this kind of does a bait and switch.

The other thing I am wondering about is Leto’s inner monologue about “Jessica what is wrong, I should have married you” now the note Jesdica has when shadout mapes comes in with the Chrysknife was meant to be from Leto saying “I miss you…” I wonder if this monologue and that note somehow are meant to join together before Shadoubt Mapes enters.

hiphats said:

You probably know by now Lionsgate, DUNE’s international rights holder, has sanctioned the release of the SpiceDiver edit of the film for issue with the 7-disc box set now available only in Germany by Koch Films. In response, we may see even more “definitive” fan edits of the film pop up at any moment.

I doubt that it would be at all possible as a fan edit because to make a definitive version you would need to have in hand all of the unreleased footage and audio. It is with Both the Studio and David Lynch only a definitive version could be made.

What do you know of the version that has not been released? You are quoted on Duneinfo of knowing about certain scenes that were filmed not in the script regarding Nefud and the Lobotomy scene. Were you close to the production?

I have tried to make sense of the structure or intended structure and what goes where and MAF15 Deluxe version does a better job than Spicediver in terms of restoring rather than so much fan editing. But yeah both are good.

I suppose no definitive version exists yet. Will Lynch and the Studio do the proper Directors cut thing?

Lynch spent 4 years pitting the film together. I think he did an incredible job with it.

Every media story praises Dennis Villenvue version as definitive and paint’s the lynchversion as inferior.

Dune was a remarkable achievement and is a Special film. It’s sci fi and it’s not. It wants to be a normal film but set in a time and place where things are very different.

I found a good sized image for the actual planet Caladan matte painting which is nice to see. So that particular piece is available online.

It does not look exactly the same as in color is wrong when we see it it is green in secret report and in filmbook it is blue but it is more pale white with green and blue in raw format.

Wanted to add my full observation list

The Opening Narration - Although Good seems like it should be intercut with Show don’t tell images or footage whilst the “hidden away within the rocks are a people known as the Fremen” should be spoken in the part where they land on Arrakis as in the TV Version. This gap would then potentially be filled with alternate dialogue possibly regarding the bene geserit and the guild. So the opening Narration is actually an edit which removed Irulan Naration from extended footage to lose other information from what should have been said and accompanying images.

Irulan Talking of the Red Sapho Juice and mentats should probably go in the place of the audio repeat of “It is by will alone I set my mind in motion” aboard the cable car.

As Paul Atreides is looking at the film book on Caladan once his mentors enter the room it should focus on the planet “Beneth thielax training planet of the mentats” then back to freddie Jones looking angry cut then with the audio "Know a mentat by his red stained lips. Cut back to Paul "I know Thuffer I heard you, Gurney (cut to patrick stewart from TV Version) and Yueh (cut to dean stockwell from TV version) coming down the hall. Then finally Freddie Jonnes “Those sounds could be imitated.”

This scene was trimmed down Note Patrick Stewart mouthing lines but silence and there was an extended scene involving THuffer on mentat traininng which is unreleased.

It should also be noted that the TV cut seems to correctly place the Spice Harvester footage from film book on Arrakis in Pauls Room also “Weather See storms” should be accompanied by sand storm storm footage not english text. So that actually should be excised from it’s placement on Caladan But the see storms part stays on Caladan.

The final filmbook sequence for when Duke Leto visits his son Is Regarding Sandworms to complete this sequence it would be possible to lift the Audio from the TV mini series as there is a Filmbook on worms in that. and show footage of worms. Note that it was “Sir Duncan Idaho is here” was the reason Leto left Paul’s side where as in the film it is not correct audio dub. Obviously then Leto meets Duncan… and looked in on Jessica which is unreleased.

During the Guild Navigator sequence on Kaitain there is a shot from within the tank looking at the emperor but there is no gas in the tank missing special effects.

I also noted an issue with when the Navigators Tank unlock the sound of the Tank unlocking is placed over Reverend mother Mohiam rather than on the actual Tank so I’m assuming there is shots in the wrong order here.

Upon Helen Guias Mohim saying "we need to have a look at Paul Atreides on Caldan the TV version shows ships taking off reused footage but the script states shots of the Universe now here is the thing I think the shots of Space and Pauls Dream is meant to be joined together or interwoven if you like, with some editing but of note because paul’s dreams are premonition based it seems seeing Feyed and muttering “I will kill you” is too early meaning that this should have shown Chani and the Reverand mother with fire and water. Also I would put Caladan as the opening of the film no secret report then we go to Kaitain after Duke Leto talks to Paul. The only way to make this correctly play out is to start the film on Caladan then go to Kaitain for the Guild visiting the Emperor and then Pauls Dream intercut with Space and water and dream images removing the secret report within the guild as it is redundant.

When Duke Leto and Paul talk a Harkonnen flag is seen as Paul looks up rather than the green Atredies flag Lynch must have been pissed! weather this was to be Duncan leaving for Arrakis in a ship? I don’t know…But it’s really bad.

From this TV version of trip to Caladan the extended footage of Reverend mother in the chair may have been where Jessica inner monologue talking of the Test and losing her son was meant to go rather than as she has this before she knows what the reason for the vist was all about. There is also a shot of Lightning Striking at the very end of the TV version in the sky. This shot I believe to be caladan storm so when the Reverend mother exclaims “He is Here” we cut to the Lightning Strike then to the Reverend mother in the chair then Jessica opening the door. Important that Mohiam and Jessica first go to pauls room and then talk about everything else.

When Duke Leto stamps the message for the Baron with the signet ring “Herald of the change” Note that the cylinder would resemble a highliner. It is possible that the cylinder was to fade through into a highliner above Geidi prime. It feels like an obvious visual cue the TV cut has a painting of the planet. Also this scene may have been intended to include a voice over from the Baron Harkonnan. The scene with the Baron was slightly trimmed but not by much but it did include the famous dialogue about Arrakis plot.

So in Pauls Room when he has the Spice vision in the script it states Paul dead on a stone Floor… This is the vision of Feyed “I will kill you” into the hunter seeker appearing from the wall. So it seems that they messed with the premonitions too as they are not in the correct order or sequence of premonition.

Some shots of shadout mapes creeping about where meant to go before the door opens and paul saves her from the hunter seeker.

The expanded soundtrack “secrets of the fremen” is the music for when Shadoubt mapes gives the Crysknife to Jessica when she screams I feel that a shot of a worm transparent overlayed as she yells for the understanding of “The maker” should be the open mouth showing teeth Spiral turn with sound effect.

The expanded soundtrack “The Fremen” is for Jamis funeral but segways in to Liets Kynes and his still suit being ripped apart. This gives us correct scene orders.

When Paul and Jessica are being taken to the desert to be eaten by the worms The shots of the cliffs below as the fight on the ship ensues are missing the model of the Harkonan Ornithopter ship
When Paul get’s control of the Harkonen ship after they hit the cliff it feels like the next scene of them in the cockpit was an insert and a poor one at that. It felt like Jessica shouting “Leto he’s dead” and Paul saying “I know” could all be done via audio while we see Paul from behind struggling with the controls. Now we can join the footage of the actual crash excising all the clunky inner monologue about altitude and getting to rocks… Upon leaving the ship “This crash might bring a worm” is another insert originally it was “hurry these men will have watchers” which tallies up with Piters remark “Continue reconnaissance” So we can assume that they were hiding from other ships for a while although this is never shown. It’s unclear weather Leto.s death was meant o be aboard the Ornithopter or when they get to the safety of rock and Paul has his visions.

Mother Ramallo exclaiming the prophecy would originally be placed after the crash rather than when they first arrive at Arrakis.

Then the film sort of plays out ok from here on out somewhat so sorry for the long post on observations but it just feels like it needs putting right and actually dissecting what the substituted was and what was moved about.

The secret report within the guild was actually meant to do with the guild visiting the emperor the second time without the 3rd stage navigator and was to be not Kyle Mcglaughan voice.

There is couple more shifted footage that I can cite the emperor was to arrive on Arrakis whilst Paul takes the water of life (removing ship on the echo “we come for you”) hence bene gesserit having the nose bleeds at exactly the same time Mohiam, Alia and Jessica. Also the shot of Alia with the Crysknife is before she is taken hostage by the Sandarkar not the Fremen Victory end of the battle.

MAF 15 Dune Deluxe edition I really think the standout moments were the box music restored the gurney halleck speech music score restored and to also state the Jamis fight was very good music restoration also.

You might be pleased that I just figured out the extended soundtrack “the betrayal / shields down” is missing music for the hunter seeker scene whilst the end part is for when the shields are down after Leto is shot. However there is a segment in a Special Edition documentary that is included right at the end that has the stand alone music cue for when Paul grabs the hunter seeker and thrusts it into the wall. The shots approaching the door were Shadoubt Mapes before the door opens not Paul going to his Room.

When we see the repeated shots of Sandarkar fighting Atredies on Arrakis This was to Omit an Atreidies Soldier being stabbed through his head. The Sandakar soldiers approaching battle are flipped horizontally and the shot where a Sandakar comes through a doorway is missing the Lasers or Special effects. There is a brief snippet from a trailer of an Atreidies soldier being blown in an explosion up not in the film.

Imperial Slug said:

I remember reading about this 6 months ago. Although it’s encouraging that Lynch is seeing things with Dune in a different light now, I’d be very surprised if we ever see anything more than just talk come of this (I hate to be the voice of skepticism).

Which version do you think is correct? or more correct?

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/comparisons/comparisons/c_d/dune/Default.htm

I really like the the laser paradise edition look of the film the most however the desert scenes are not tinted…

So I would probably mix it up for discarding un-tinted desert but keeping the look of the laser paradise edition for everything else.

Astro films tint looks the best 1st one…

Color enthusiasts and experts might find this interesting.

I have this version in my collection.

Sorry for double post but it’s better to Separate.

https://vimeo.com/377738618

This was one of my old edits…

Let’s take for instance the structure at the start.

Opening with Irulan Narration now apparently the opening shot of the film was meant to be a highliner seen through a drop of water.

David Lynch Surrealism is missing there.

Irulan fading in and out are there images missing?

Now the opening Credits we should go straight to Caladan this plays out until Leto and Paul talk about going to Arrakis.

Now from the stormy clouds we should transition to the Emperor and 3rd stage Navigator scene.

From after this scene we go back to Caladan.

This transition part was meant to have Irulan Narrate about the Bene Geseritt sisterhood and manipulating bloodlines.

Now Jessica monologue about “tonight I may lose my son” are probably meant to be placed of helen Mohiam in the chair from fake outtakes trip to Caladan. This then cuts to opening the door Jesdica saying “she is going to observe you”

This whole part scenes are in the incorrect order the Dune Purist edition get’s the scene order correct here.

So it remains to be sern how Helen Mohiam get’s to Caladan but with Irulan Narration it can be smoothed out.

If we take for instance the secret report within the guild. The graphics seem to me here to be how the spacing guild calculate 2 positions to fold space from and to. So removing the text saying planet caladan for instance and planet kaitain. This would be the guild map. The symbol of the guild then makes sense so that was the guild navigation screen I reckon for the heighliner.

Anyway without knowing exactly how they planned to get from Kaitain to Caladan will be interesting how they handle that and I guess “if” they handle that is also a question. Helen Mohiam ship however she got there needs to land after pauls 1st dream sequence.

One last bit about this part right at the end of the extended edition there is a flash of lightning that shot was meant for Caladan and the storm. Not Arrakis Rain storm. Perhaps the witch arrived in a flash of lightning I would not put that past Lynch either.

The Dune Illustrated story book has this structure. So it was at one time in this order of Caladan to Kaitain and back to Caladan. There is also an interesting text prologue that was posdibly prior to Irulan doing the narration.