I had a great time and we figured we would be missing something but the bar was just too tempting :)
I have a few suspicions about a certain video I saw though and perhaps a certain person here might have been involved with.
call it a hunch :)
Ryan McAvoy said:
Well that was pretty damned awesome! I'll can't really say to much without giving anything away (It's supposed to be secret afterall). But it was like being "inside" the original Star Wars movie... and a good chunk of ESB too. If you can get there and are willing to pay the steep ticket price do not miss out on this people.
Did you go last night?
or on Friday?
:)
I ended up boycotting the film half way through just to be in a certain bar
fishmanlee said:
The Battle of Hoth on the 2 disc CD is
3M1 Drawing The Battle Lines
3M2 Leia’s Instructions
3M3 The Snow Battle
3M4/4M1 Luke’s First Crash
4M2 The Rebels Escape Again
All overlapped in the film, but with sections dropped, the CD mostly reflect this, but they chose to mix the cues together differently. (And wrongly in the case of 3m2 and 3m3)
What sections were dropped? and which others are overlapped? Are you sure about the phrasing interpretation being overlap and not Lead-in?
This is very different to the fade out cuts where the build ups were cut when the falcon leaves echo base or "we're going in closer to one of the big ones" when the build up is chopped in half. Although it is another build up that has once again been trashed albeit in a different manner because they kept the music score solid in this instance. But we have far too much music than there is footage. I agree with most restored cues you did, but this one just sounds wrong. And that is not in any way meant to be in detriment of you. I think it is actually quite tricky on occasion to say how something was actually meant to be and get it right. I'll put myself in the category too.
I remember when I was actually looking at "The Departure of Bobba Fett" Music cues and I know something is not right about it. And you were saying it was right.
So I only figured this out a few days a go... "Don't blame me how am I supposed to know the difference between a power socket and a computer terminal"
R2-D2 drives in to the wall and beeps disgruntled.
"We'll at least your still in one piece, look what happened to me!"
I think that "Behind the scenes" Clip was really good.
It's re-enforcing my faith that it can be done, Star Wars can feel real again.
Proper trailer for this film... Cannot wait!
KilroyMcFadden said:
I don't care if it's not rated "R." All I ask is that it not "explain" the origins of anything.
Neither do I, I just prefer a film with a timeline that stays intact and not censored. Sex, violence or bad language is not a good reason to cut a film.
A good reason for cutting something is if it's just really exposition or does not work or it is making the film drag. This more than ever before is what we are getting from hum drum spin offs and reboots basing whole films on mindless exposition with a few good special effects shots thrown in for kicks.
Rather than as you say giving us a good story that does not need to connect the dot's constantly, and be one big throw back homage schlock.
When will they ever learn?
I'm not so sure the people getting squashed under the AT-AT foot would have been pretty gruesome as it's got shock factor.
This scene you alude to is a bit of a slow burner :)
The Bunker scene in ROTJ was obviously cut to keep the kill count down. Because Star Wars had less dismemberment it meant that more people got shot and was passed.
Tobar said:
Haarspalter said:
So far i have zero interest in any of these upcoming Anthology movies.
Rogue One is looking to be amazing. They've assembled a rogues gallery of veterans of gritty war films. Gareth Edwards is gunning to put the WAR back in Star Wars.
As opposed to censoring scenes of violence from episode 5 and adding teddy bears and censoring scenes of violence in six hmmmm.
Sounds ok but they could just put any missing scenes of violence back in the original films too or at least show us any missing violence that was cut or how things were altered to make them more tame. now that ratings are more relaxed surely. Namely storm troopers being shot and people generally getting shot by the imperials. They managed to keep all the dismemberment though in the OT which probably was the reason more people did not get shot or killed.
Let's face it how else would you execute Lobot other than blowing his computer brains out :)
The Han screams censored whilst being tortured... The storm troopers without a voice.
Empire in workprint would have been R or 15 without any shadow of doubt and that is without swearing and it's also part of the reason it was re-cut because when ever there are scenes battling storm troopers the timeline goes to hell and there was also a whole gun fight that was deleted. It crept through at PG only just with cuts and alterations.
I am going tonight!!!
And I won't tell you what it is like either :)
This film is intended to "Keep the original trilogy alive"
Bloody balloon b*ll*cks
adywan said:
Ronster said:
The whole thing that has me in disagreement about this particular clip is that the pause works so incredibly well and it was how it was recorded, so this is what really has me scratching my head about that particular point.But it wasn't how it was recorded, that's the thing. It was two separately recorded pieces edited together for nothing more than the soundtrack CD. On the original soundtrack double vinyl LP they were two separate tracks also.
Yes! and there is a very clear space in between where one track ends and the other one starts.
They are edited together with a gap in the middle of them both...Agreed?
The question here is how they were edited together is it precise as to how it was meant to synch up to the film?
You have gone for an overlap as per score notes and I have chose to adhere to the silence as per the recording and remove Bars because I don't think anything is missing from the AT-AT reveal and really the main thing I have been looking at is the transition to double time and matching that and found that the first note of the piano riff (although bars are removed) synchs up with the foot... The first time we see the AT-AT.
I am tracing back from a point in the middle (Double time cue) to find a start point.... You are trying to synch the music to what is already there when it might be a cover up of a missing scene. Hence why the music was probably removed in the first place.
fishmanlee said:
I can confirm that Adywan is correct (the sheet music indicates this overlap)
The first note of the piano riff lines up exactly with the foot coming down and the double time transition to the Hanger.
I have exactly the same rhythm as what is displayed in the youtube clip as in the beats are exactly the same except when you observe the change to double time at the correct point and take into account the pause you get this result.
Why would they not record it as one whole piece of music with the piano riff as you have displayed it in the youtube clip then if there was not meant to be a pause?
That is the real big question on this and it's not about calling right or wrong but It just don't feel right I am sorry. The only possible excuse I can give for excising the first few bars of the piano riff are that they were a lead in specifically for the percussionists and were played in mind of them being edited out. As the percussion in this part is actually very complicated. Agree or disagree with me or agree or disagree with the actual recordings and sheet music too we have been given. The whole thing that has me in disagreement about this particular clip is that the pause works so incredibly well and it was how it was recorded, so this is what really has me scratching my head about that particular point.
And the change to double time at the end of the R2-D2 scene rather than it actually changing to double time when we actually transition to the very busy hanger. The Hanger shots are all quick cuts specifically cut that way to be in double time to match the music the R2-D2 scene is not.
You have my final take on it, If you disagree with it I don't have a problem with that.
yeah I am, and yep it does synch up with the gap removed this as you say could be misleading I never thought about that in terms of assembling the CD but I do believe they used the score notes and if it stated a rest then the gap is correct.
But the change of tempo (suddenly going double time) at the end of the R2-D2 scene does not feel right. And more so the big piano beats looking at the ice plain landscape also make even less sense.
the double time kicking in on the shots of people running about just seems to reflect what is going on, on the screen but then this gap we are talking about shifts to a part somewhere where the snow speeders are preparing to launch without actually showing them Launch.
I probably just want to believe there was some kind of storyboard card on the screen for that bit when it was scored where they are preparing to go out of the base I wish I could prove it, but I seriously know I cannot. But this is what I think John Williams intended, and I have given you my take on it.
I also think it's a bit naughty to not observe pauses in the music just because there is no footage to compliment it. That is the best thing about the unused music what ever interpretation people have of it. It is still a wonderful and fascinating thing :)
I don't think that big piano riff would be heard at all until we actually witness the first shot of the hulking AT-AT (through Binoculars). There is no way this music is intended for anything other than the first time we see it and absolutely none of the lead up to that point. That may mean excising a couple of bars as they are repeated and placeholders only. I have not checked but I would be surprised if the first note of the piano riff and the AT-AT foot stomping down did not match the change to double time when we are in the hanger. I will check this later on.
I noticed something about a month a go and put it into practice today..
I added the full music cue for the snow speeders preparing to go in to battle.
Adding the full music cue reveals that potentially this sequence has a missing scene of around 2.5 seconds. Although there are no notes in the script to suggest what it would be, It may well have been planned to show the snow speeders actually launching out of echo base through the tunnel.
Not asking for a shot like this to be done but it is an interesting find and could well serve the restored music section you have planned for your special features supplement but if you also decided that it would be something cool to do considering you have a miniature rebel hanger on your hands I won't complain if you decide to have a stab at adding something :).
Anyway it's a rough and quick demonstration of the full cue with a blank for where I think the scene would go but if there is a missing scene, it really could have gone anywhere within this sequence of quick cuts and may have been another shot of people running about for all we know. But it is a discovery worth sharing even for curiosity sake. To be honest it's a big guess with very little evidence to back up anything particularly concrete of there being either a missing scene or what it might of been.
Anyway you can check the music cue here.
what an amazing sound you discovered
I only just looked at it properly as a comparison.
I think now they did rotoscope the lasers again and made them deliberately pink.
Because many shots in the original theatrical film on Hoth have no white hot or bright cores.
So going back to what you were saying about bright light in the day time it does make more sense that the lasers in daylight or fairly bright conditions lose / diminish their bright white cores due to them being subdued from the surrounding daylight. They are also fairly transparent and not solid.
but if you really want to keep the white cores then keep the pink.
And the Red would also go a different shade because of the daylight like a bit more pinky purple red but not full on pink... The original is more crimson with no white core.
Oh god really? They changed the lasers to pink in the new battlefront oh dear.
The reason the lasers are pink are because they never bothered to re-rotoscope the lasers after applying the Blue Blanket color filter to the film on the hoth scenes.
They were going to be blue for a short period of time but then they decided to eventually make the lasers red. See Below.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CroqdjDv82s
And by the way I am not saying the actual rotoscoping you did was bad, I just disagree with the color on the hoth lasers quite strongly that is all, and you did put the title of your video as "What it should be like" or something so I thought I would point out that I do not agree with the color.
But I am not knocking you... The Lasers, engine glows and lightsabers and all other hand painted effects were one of the last things to be added in the process and that you are doing this is something that should have been done for the Special edition that is also why you see shots in that trailer where they were using sticks because they had still yet to be hand painted over.
This is where the Special edition if you like got lazy and added a blanket color filter changing the colors away from what they originally were and also not performing any re-paint or re-rotoscope to the hand painted effects as they were originally one of the last visual processes to be performed.
TV's Frink said:
Ronster said:
This is the new THX trailer... Do you think they would make another one for star wars 7???
Yes, they certainly might.
Perhaps in reference to "See you on the other side"
it's a slogan change as well
It's always been "The Audience is Listening"
This is the new THX trailer... Do you think they would make another one for star wars 7???
I mean you are quite right in that the visual might change but this is a new sounding THX intro with enhanced surround sound. It whirls around the theater before hitting that big bass note so the sound is what we will hear for sure they may make a tailor made THX intro for star wars you could be quite right there Frink.
well you might not if the cinema is not THX certified :)
New THX Logo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2knpiDvxx5w
I guess this will be the first thing we will see before the film.
The pink lasers are no good. Use this as a proper reference This color to the lasers look amazing even if it is red shifted the lasers are not pink.
I have to say I really do like the tie fighter laser coloring you did though I think it's the glow you added that makes them work well although goes a bit fat in places but on the whole I like it.. And some of the falcon engines shots were cool as well but what you have there in terms of color is the hyperspace colors not the normal engine glow color.
Ever thought about extending what you are doing to all of the hand painted effects?
Here is an example something I have been wanting to do for a long time, you might like it? this was a test on trying to bring out the original colors in the FLAK Bursts
Good idea on the sith eyes... That is really quite a cool idea. I'm into that, it's abstract anyway so it really has no harm in it. Good Man Good! More Yellow though.
team_negative1 said:
There is no demand for an official release, because the Bluray was the official release. If you mean a cleaned up official release, we would argue, again, there is no demand for them, because what difference would it really make. They are deleted scenes.
Yes, we hope someday, someone will incorporate them back into the movie.
That being said, the tests continue. Here is part 3 of the Luke and Biggs scene, there is still more work to be done on these, as the right hand sides still has a lot of lines:
Team Negative1
AntcuFaalb said:
I don't see what's pointless about the industry moving toward >8-bit video. Most people can easily distinguish a >8-bit image on a >8-bit display from its corresponding 8-bit reduction. 2K vs. 4K on a 4K display... eh, not so much.
The sRGB gamut is just too small. Hell, NTSC is larger, so we're (finally!) coming full-circle.
They need to take care of this guyand keep him under close observation before he does something worse.
I was waiting for the Pod racing joke!