Ronster

Well honestly I thought it was better than a missing scene card that I put up.

And I pointed it out because I felt it was something I had not seen before 3 speeders coming in to frame left to right hard banking and flying over camera.

and although I did not check the time exactly I did check the seconds and it starts on 32:29 and finishes on 32:31 and a bit so I felt it was also a fit of the 2.5 seconds.

You are saying it's the shot with the turret only heavily altered?

Possessed said:

There's still no evidence those (unfinished!) scenes were ever shown in theaters. 

 Is there any evidence to suggest the unfinished film as we know it was shown in cinemas?

They were still trying to do more shots after it had already been released to theaters.

The more important thing is that the "unfinished scenes" as you put it were complete in a sense. They were earmarked in position and were in color and good quality with a sound mix awaiting an unfinished special effect shot in most cases.

The most important things really is to do with the Bacta tank "Becoming red" with a possibly smokey dye injected in to it. Not sure if this is true though myself. But it is worth noting the observation. A Flash is mentioned in the script upon contact of the robot arm to the tank. The Line by 21B is interesting and how it all fits together with the extended scene of Leia and Luke smooching.

The other important observation is of General Veers never shot the power generators he was blown up before this happened. He got taken out and another AT-AT destroys the generator by his order.

other pilots shot the generator that is why the explosion does not have general veers in the shot of the explosion through the AT-AT window.

"Princess Leia (Fisher) has come into possession of the lightsaber once possessed by her father, Darth Vader, and later lost by Luke (Hamill) when Vader separated him from his arm during that “join me” duel in The Empire Strikes Back."

So this is a confirmation of the lightsaber being recovered when Luke lost his hand and his fathers light saber given to him by Obi-Wan.

If it's not the object that falls when Luke falls out the hatch possibly recovered by Ugnaughts living below then I wonder if it was recovered from the bottom of the large round shaft?

I wonder if they will let us know where it was recovered from?

I have only read this thread today, but it really is irksome how someone came here with very valuable information about a version of Empire Strikes Back that I for one completely believe "Rauncher" on his statements and his memories only to be dismissed by the community here as him having a bad memory and not remembering things properly.

This all said and done it's worth a read of this thread because all this was said and done before the deleted scenes were released on Blu-ray in 2011 which would have proved "Rauncher" correct.

But I believe there are some very interesting nuggets of information here.

Take note of them... This man was no liar I can assure you of that.

I'm sorry I keep posting I am not trying to hog this thread but I have a pretty concrete answer on the missing scene from the snowspeeders in the Hanger found via music cues.

This animation found in Jamie Bennings "Building Empire" @32.29 Is the missing 2.5 seconds that John williams scored the music to before seeing the AT-AT's attack.

I was mouthing 3 snowspeeders whooshing overhead and imagining they were going out the tunnel I got the number that were meant to be there correct in my imagination but I only just realized this is the shot intended and never filmed but scored and they are up in the air already and banking overhead going over camera.

SilverWook said:

For those of who refuse to go to a certain site. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-VTdsCKLgg

And a super huge version of that shot...

http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2015/33/1439234367-iua5038-bs0050-x1199-4k-pub-001386-v02.jpg

 Interesting that they cut out the snap zoom on that trailer after the negative feedback on it. :)

I am with you on all you have said but try to look at it more in a sense of a sliding scale.

When you weigh up those shots that are particularly badly damaged exhibiting the "rusty red" saturation hues and the hyperspace cockpit view you get to a point of saying the video source is not viable. Because well let's be honest they are a write off for so many reasons they are for want of a better word "Shit" and not acceptable.

It would be much easier to use an alternative source for those shots in particular and start in a better place. I am pretty sure a better video source could be made available for those. Much less work then.

Now to address the point about "Barring an awful lot of work, there's only so much that Adywan can do with picture information which just isn't visible anymore, but I'm pleased he's managed to improve things overall now, as Lando's inconsistent shirt was particularly jarring from shot to shot for me."

The most annoying thing about this is that everything has to rest on Ady's shoulders and that we have reached a point where he is now working alone again. It is frustrating that an old VFX process (blue screen) causes the problems it does and the only manner with which to attempt a fix is a "Fake" fix. Then as you said you also have the 2004 crushed blacks. What would be wonderful if tasks such as these which are more "restoration and repair" based could have someone dedicated to this task alone so Ady could get on with the more complicated creations and actual editing.

The thing that strikes me is that there is an extra mile to go both in blue screen reversal damage on all the window shots or any shot with blue absent from blue screen removal that would pay off massively and crushed blacks re-instating lost detail. I will give my example of how to potentially approach it.

I don't disagree with Ady's color corrections but I did find here that the red needed to be shifted orange to get the natural tones out of it and lot's of yellow de-satuation and red de-saturation also. I then added the Blue lights ramped up the strip lights, and added crushed black detail for the round part in top right I tinkered with the light areas of Lando's shirt leaving the shadow color intact. I changed his shirt to try match the previous and the following shot as it is more this color perhaps due to lighting? 

I did this as a still image, and whilst doing this yes I could certainly appreciate how long it would take to do this in terms of footage in say after effects which I do not have. But what I am saying is it would be good to have someone on this job alone mainly concerned  with "repair and restoration" only. There is a very simple formula to it and does not fall in to the Adywan rocket science category :)

I am trying to give a bigger picture in terms of watching the new clip seeing some amazing new shots and then immediately noticing a quality drop due to the state of the special edition and the fact that it's never been quite right since the day the film was released and how far do you want to go with it? I put the ceiling at that point... blue screen reversal damage and restoring missing detail.

ImperialFighter said:

In addition, I forgot to add in my previous post that it was also neat to finally see Lando consistently wearing a BLUE shirt throughout that clip, rather than it changing to grey in some of the shots.  :)

(by the way xxtelecine 7xx, it's not necessary to quote the whole of a long post in future just to comment with a couple of remarks, as it's a chore for everyone to scroll past the same thing again needlessly)

 The Reason his shirt becomes turquoise or greyish is because of the bluescreen removal. Again we are talking about shots that have a falcon cockpit window in it.

But the damage goes far greater than just Lando's lilac shirt.

All shots with a window practically destroy anything blue or with blue in it.

Check the cold cathode lights out when there is a window the luminosity is destroyed because they are in the blue light spectrum.

Then all the blue buttons and lights in the falcon cockpit are also wiped out and either are grey or black.

As I am posting I may as well also point out this side panel.

This panel on the lower right is inconsistent with the side views probably shot in the full scale falcon cockpit or another version of the cockpit.

Watch out for the destroyed detail (crushed blacks) on the back of 3PO's chair during the asteroid chase.

If anyone wants to use it or modify/update or improve it go ahead.

I fixed a couple of issues at the bottom and re-upped it for you.

I made this for me and I wanted to share it with you...

Off work and a bit bored so It's taken about 25 hours and was a fun project I really tried to add all the detail in the correct places and make the cockpit wider like the 2:35:1 aspect and add a bit of depth of field to it also. It was never meant to get as obsessive as I did over it. But I am quite pleased with how it came out and yeah I reckon I have a few details wrong or it's not exactly correct but I really did my best.

I just think those POV Falcon cockpit shots look old and tired so I did my best to bring it up to date a bit. I hope I can inspire you back :)

I spotted a couple more minor things in the new clip to do with the special edition and not your brilliant work.

"Look there's someone up there"

In the Red box the Panel goes dim then pops brighter than it was previously. Appears to be some form of video damage in the special edition.

I put a comparison here because I was looking at this shot trying to ascertain why it was not working as well as it could. I put it down to red saturation and the central Ring being jet black almost like a thick matte line. I sourced the detail from another shot to put detail and create a contrasting solid line  between the window and the executor to show as an example. Small but effective and I think it's a reasonable repair to make as this detail is present in the other shot but not in this one.

I don't have anything else to add I really like your new clip but the Special edition video source is showing signs of age and damage and missing detail all rolled in to one not a good combination with the great new special effects shots you have done.

The special edition is struggling to keep up... :)

xxtelecine 7xx said:

anything can be removed and changed, fact is it take's TIME>>>

 True mate, very true but It also takes time to break this stuff down and also I never post without doing some donkey work myself.

I did some color tests on the actual areas that exhibit the Rusty red and they can be very easily removed by de-saturating red and yellow (obviously keeping the characters color intact).

But the falcon POV shot of the frame is destroyed detail with crushed blacks... But there is the same frame at the asteroid chase that does not have this problem so it should be easily given better detail from this location even as a still image overlay if needed. Or take it from the negative one scan perhaps.

Time and effort, and I know my time and effort pales in comparison to revisited project but It all takes time even to say what I said and show the problem up.

I Noticed this a while ago and I don't know if anything could be done about it, but it seems to be a transfer issue with the special edition version. I put comparison for color the revisited vs gout.

So Lando, Leia and Chewie look a lot better in revisited in terms of color. But the interior of the cockpit looks thick with a rusty red in fact it makes it look as though the falcon is all of a sudden gone rusty!!!

Ok so the colors are widely different but it is not rusty so is there a way to remove this dark red rust on the Frames and metal work of the falcon??? Some of the frame has even disappeared...

This color problem only occurs when we can see out of the falcon window. All the other shots are fine... Even if it is locked down. What is this problem? and how was it created in the special edition?

The Hyperspace shot at this view is really nasty too in the special edition compared to the gout.

The side views also have the same rusty red as there is a window here also.

I literally just got back from seeing this and I have to say... It was alright at the start but by the end I had lost all interest.

And I feel that the terminator franchise has been terminated.

regularjoe said:

Darth Lucas said:

Visually, and imagination-wise, I don't see how a severed hand clutching a lost weapon is not more interesting than simply falling debris. 

 For starters there is no hand or lightsaber present while Luke goes skating through the gerbil tube.  Seeing as the hand was severed a couple of minutes prior to him taking a leap I would think that it would be present in the gerbil tube on his trip through it.  There's a whole lotta places in that big wind tunnel that it could have been sucked into, the thought of it just happening to go down the same pipe as Luke did is pretty lame, the thought of someone recovering it from where ever it landed is even lamer.

It's not so much an issue of whether it is interesting or not but whether it is plausible based on what is in the frame of the movie.  

 But the door Luke falls through to the outside or underside of Cloud city only opens when he stops going down the gerbil tube as you say... So it is possible that the door opening created a further suction and the hand because it is lighter did not have as much inertia as Luke so he probably went past it only for it to follow him down afterwards...

Make any sense? Seriously I only just thought about this now for the first time ever, it's reasonably plausible but it's not really a big deal I don't think.

It does look like a hand and light saber though and the 4th draft script is not the never seen 5th draft (if there ever was one properly assembled as production became a bit messy and stuff did get changed from 4th draft we just do not know exactly what it was changed to and if it was ever finished)

There are numerous special effects shots that were lined up to be done that were never completed for one reason or another and I know of a few through guesswork but I cannot tell you 100% for certain but the music score often gives up where there positions are. All the live action was shot though.

MrBrown said:

Also the missing 3 seconds from the theatrical missing in the extended cut should be reinserted. What about the different Credits?

 Hi sorry for this bump but yeah I am looking for the missing 3 seconds?

Anyone have this and the original theatrical mono audio?

The other missing seconds would be a bonus pls PM me if you can / don't mind doing a capture from the laser disc of the missing stuff.

I have hit a brick wall in finding those missing seconds on DVD and the only option is the LD release to my knowledge.

I want to assemble a DVD quality cut from various sources.

Thanks Kindly

doubleofive said:

The visuals are locked down

 No worries I told you what I thought about it and where I felt the visual bumps I never said you should change it but I gave you my feedback on it.

It's still amazing :)

I downloaded the clip a few days a go. And it is immense and I did not want to say anything about it until I let it settle on me.

So Feedback.

Wow! this is the best clip we have yet been served the colors and the refinement and the brightness and contrast are all (well feel to me) 100% balanced and rock solid. If you can get the rest of the film up to this standard that's it. The official release is in even deeper trouble than it was already :)

I Like all the fixes you have done and especially those new shots although I think the Light saber retracting speed could do with being a bit slower... If I remember correctly your old version retracted more slowly and I think you had it nailed in terms of speed on the old youtube clip "the revelation" .

I pointed out Helmet reflections before not sure how you feel about them but I think that one particular one with messy reflection and the big 4K lamps reflecting on the underside of Vaders helmet should be painted out. But It's minor really.

Fixing aspect ration on Falcon POV shots to include dashboard? This is another iffy one but I think it would push those shots to feel balanced with the rest of the footage and maintain aspect.

2 more larger visual disconnects I felt whilst watching the clip and they are shots that you have not really altered as in they are a carbon copy more or less so not really a problem you created but I will give feedback on these as other ways of looking at it.

1st one is update existing shot.

Seeing the actual bottom of the large structure when Luke looks down and perhaps when he falls?

I think you have a 3d model of the object?...So, really that is a snapshot static render if you agree the bottom of the Gantry Crane would be indeed visible.

2nd one is iffy but I think it either needs something like this or needs altering in someway to maintain visual flow a bit better and the scale is way off.

So Leia looks out to the left but Luke would actually be off screen if he was in the correct position to match the following shot in terms of visual flow... So

Yes pretty nasty mock up, but it's not worth me putting too much effort in but anyway it get's the point over about another way of looking at it although the actual angle in the mock up is totally not right something similar (from the never before seen angle) could make it flow better together visually and be a nice way to see it like we never seen it before. Oh yeah I am obviously not in competition with my crap art skills :)

Over all I thought the clip was outstanding stuff and visually the best I have seen from you yet.

I will talk about some audio stuff in this part later on

TV's Frink said:

Team Olie said:

Why not give it a shot yourself?

Ronster said:

*crickets*

Interesting. 

 Well I said I hold the current version I actually don't I have the iconic films release of the supposed uncut version or US edition and not the old international. I like the colors though!!!

Yes crickets sound effects might be needed in palace grounds at night :)

Boy a lot of scratches and blotches and jump cuts too in this. (jump cuts might need after effects job)

EDIT^ Nah you can get a squeaky clean new version but I think the grittyness of the release I have really lends itself to both the soundtrack and the feel sort of grindhouse. It's not the sort of film you want to watch being ultra clean it works better with grit and grime. I think old school is the way forward.

God knows how many versions I will have to buy of this film but I know the HKL releases are of good quality but I suspect I have bought the Asian version in this instance until it arrives I won't know.

Am I just dreaming or was the music removed from the cat on the guillotine with Roper & Han in his museum?

Apparently there are 4 music changes from the current edition edit than the original theatrical release.

Calling out again to any Laser disc holders regarding original sound mix differences.

OK UPDATE BAD NEWS THE SCENE IS NOT IN THE DEAGOSTINI RELEASE it is it's own version though.

you can see a comparison below of P&S vs current release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToxLiJxxv08

And the three missing music and sound the 4th change is relation to the altered footage displayed in the link above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNCzS3AOlv8

Well I just bought this off ebay (fairly rare) apparently it is the closest you can get on DVD to the actual theatrical cut. What that exactly means is yet to be seen. But even though I want to put Bruce Lee's voice back for the Abbott scene I really want to re-instate the theatrical cut at the end or something very similar.

So really it all boils down to literally a few seconds as to having the keys to some of the theatrical material but also the music cues. If this does not represent the theatrical cut very accurately then really the edit might not happen.

I used to have a pan & scan one, but I traded it in when the Special edition cut came out. And then when the proper fully uncut version came out I did the same traded in the fake uncut version for the current release.

It will get delivered next week....

Anyone have the theatrical cut on laser disc?

I have been recently looking in to Enter the Dragon and the deleted scenes contained within Game of Death 2.

Also not only this but for the special edition Bruce Lee’s voice was over dubbed and some of his original lines exist to replace them from a recording.

I am wondering has anyone attempted this to make an ultimate cut. There are also some minor differences between versions also from the theatrical version and the special edition (uncut) version where some very minor seconds have gone by the wayside.

If you are interested I would be interested in discussing the actual shot’s in “game of death 2” and trying to ascertain where they fit into “Enter the Dragon”

Also any differences between Mono Sound mix and Special edition.

You can watch Game of Death 2 on youtube. Personally I think it would be a great project to do If it has not already been done.

Project Summary

Video

Make the film look like it is from it’s era again the 70’s it was a gritty picture it’s lost it’s original look and feel.
Restore theatrical footage if possible
I want to avoid doing lot’s of edits any edits will be simple edits I don’t want to radically alter the film
I may try to address the jump cuts and minor fixes this is not yet decided

Audio

All missing music cues and sound will be restored
Some Audio from the cantonese version will be put in amalgamating the 2 mixes to make, in some instances a new audio track but it will be focused towards restoring original intent from Golden Harvest and not so much to change the film and make it differ more so as to fill out the sound mix and make the most complete version.

It's a bit fishy that link if you ask me...

Ok so that is your take and people interpret things differently. It does not mean you are wrong but for me to describe this "theme" I will do so specifically.

It is heavily inspired or influenced by a funeral march in it's rhythm and it's somber tones. It is often misquoted as being "Bobba Fetts" theme but it is not about him. It is about Han in carbonite although neither dead or alive being carted off in a floating coffin by his storm trooper undertakers. The music communicates this very clearly in the way it is fashioned.

So I just want to be clear that there is no silver platter although a valuable resource you still need to use association specifically when you get either a strong change in either rhythm or a specific theme. I am just trying to be helpful to you because I think you are a good bloke :)

I now understand what you are saying about Brian Risner Remix and how certain recordings are altered. And the Eric Tomlinson Film mixes shed a much greater light on the actual score sessions and are accurate to the actual film score.

fishmanlee said:

Except when the information on how it was intended to be is pretty much handed to you on a silver platter (in this case indicated by Williams himself in the sheet music).

 To what, or whom by means of association is this theme of music about? What does it relate to?

http://youtu.be/5zl9VtRxaoc?t=16

I think the creature effects was actually quite mind blowing personally