Ronster

The most weird thing about this scene is that neither General Veers Death or the actual shield generator explosion are actually in the script.

Or at least not in any script that I have seen.

Some believe it to be an idea that was cut out of the film early on, which I am fine with because I don't really know the answer.

But there is also evidence that points to the shots that are of general veers as in looking at the back of his head / helmet are actually not the actor that plays general veers and these scenes were filmed after he left the production by a stand in...

It's a bit of a weird one and must of been the subject of some debate.

In the end the shield generator destruction was what made it in to the film, but much of the shots that were made for the sequence of Veers death still ended up in the film in some way shape or form.

There is also something I personally think about too is that, the suicide and deaths attributed to the shot might have been one bout of violence too far. Empire Strikes Back is fairly graphic for a PG film in the 80's although violence was very popular in the 80's. It's another possibility for it's removal.

The Idea was eventually recycled and used in ROTJ

thorr said:

I personally think you had it right to begin with at post 12, 13, etc.

 I actually think it's getting slightly better and better.

I can see the opening shots now looks way better than it did previously. Hats off Dr Dre. Looking much more full and yes vibrant.

I have been looking at the matte paintings of Bespin recently.

I noticed there was some swapping around on the buildings particularly the Slave 1 landing Platform. What is curious about it is that it must have been re-done a few times as the buildings when the falcon takes off on the left seemed to have been originally planned for Slave 1. I know they are gone in Revisited (i do miss the Spire on the right though.. sorry)  but it is worth knowing that it was swapped about and put to Plaform 327 which is a bit odd.

And then I stumbled across yet another Joe Johnston story board... The Storm troopers Run out the door, again they never made it in to the next shot. Is it Just Joe's Imagination getting a bit carried away?

Nevermind... one of the Patrols might pick them up :)

I dont think there is any more missing or adjusted elements I found four from existing footage in the film discounting planned scenes never constructed. 2 laser fire 1 shot missing tie fighters and the troops on the platform. Not too many and adjusted would seem to count for 3 of them Laser and tie fighters to suit the story. 

EDIT:

forgot about the deflection lasers from Han shooting at Vader but you did something about that one that counts in the missing pile. And cool you did that.

I just looked at it a bit more in depth... The shot of the Storm trooper running was moved to a later point in the sequence to make it appear as if the Storm Troopers were not meant to have reached the Platform in the take off shot because they are missing and not filmed.... But you will notice Lando's last Laser bolt is fired before he retreats and hits the wall before the storm trooper runs giving up the shots proper original order in the sequence. As who can fire the shot that hits the wall if they are all already on board the falcon... Another puzzle solved.

Harmy said:

Plus it's not a great matte-painting to begin with - the background has a bit of a pencil-sketch feel to it - a bit of blur actually help it look more realistic.

The only flaw in this stance on preservation is that, this painting in question was only ever made for that particular scene and it did not come out quite right.

The 2 elements them selves both stand alone and combined are not the issue, the actual process and it seems to be a camera problem is what you are preserving and that is fine but it probably took much longer and much more hard work to create the painting than to point a camera at it for an hour.

That makes sense.

But it is lazy of them if they re-comped it for the DVD then it should have been recomped using the raw painting element and not the second generation image.

What classifies as presrrvation and what is revision. putting the raw painting overlay is preserving the matte is it not?

Preserving a partially blurred over exposed image?

Ok. My bad on how the shot of the amphibious plane was assembled but why does the image i posted have no black matte lines and dr dre image have a thick black matte line. that is why i said blue screen...

The painting part looks over exposed and the focus is well soft blurred even.

Even if they painted the matte paintings a certain way to allow for the final shot in terms of color difference this to me looks bad the other mattes look good comparitively.

I don't think it is intentionally all blurred and the sea is a weird color looks wrong and it is wrong because of the actual method. but most importantly if it was re-done as a composite it is pretty shocking it turned out like it did.

I would like to see the shot recomposited to get the detail back in the background and the water the right color.

you see it's 2 separate images and neither when combined are correct because of blue screen process. 

towne32 said:

The 1997 SE or a modified form of it?

 nah the 2006 bonus disc

they are native are the Ugnaughts

TV's Frink said:

Did I miss the part where Landis said a 3D OUT is coming?

 No.. But you have missed the point that the last time the OT was planned for a re-release was the 3D conversion.

Even the Special Edition will not convert to 3D properly.

So what is left to release also considering screen Resolutions are increasing and the Special edition elements are obsolete at higher resolutions.

By power of deduction you are only left with one possible answer.

Real color of the Matte Painting before Blue Screen process applied.

I think that camera projection would work very well here on this for vertigo sensation.

If ypu take the Endor landing platform matte though, it is a bit silly here are a load of hand painted trees. In the next shot here are some real trees... Just fails no matter if you made it 3D or not but it works in more fantastical environs. But the Jabbas palace Matte is not too shabby. 

Stereoscopic images are nothing new, it's been around a long time.

So perhaps it would work in some kind of really odd quirky way.. I would have to see it to make proper judgement on still Matte paintings from Star Wars converted into 3D.

But without any movement in them, it's a real stretch to my imagination of what that would be like on film. That last film that I recall using static 2D matte paintings was Grand Budapest Hotel and it was a joke not meant to be taken seriously which although the OT is a fun film I do think it's not joking when it is showing you an environment via a painting.

The best option for a Joy Ride experience OT is to just make a whole new version I agree.

But the original film needs to be restored first and how many times can you re-invent an old movie to alter it to try and make it something else, perhaps it would make it better perhaps it would end up worse.

I would like to see the old special effects crew (where possible) that worked on the OT to come back and actually make new shots for a new version but in the same vein as that exists in the movie with models and some 3d mattes perhaps but done using today's technology but made to look of the time. Imagine miniatures shot lord of the rings style but in the Star Wars universe, that is what I am talking about 

And also it would be nice if they included some of the deleted scenes or planned scenes that were never completed at the time that would actually add to the experience perhaps (although it's not too much or too many) rather than some of the special editions additions that detracted from the film in some instances.

I mean like imagine Cloud City, Endor Platform, Yavin Base as a Miniature shot like Minas Tirith or Orthanc from LOTR, It would be Amazing.

Not much chance of that ever looking 3D is there...

No way this would ever look remotely 3D no matter what conversion you throw at it. It would need a 3D Model and well a totally new shot made.

You can go on and on. Paintings are not 3D it's like saying make the Mona Lisa in 3D on my TV. It's also not going to move it's motionless.

It's about as Pancake as they come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcliR8kAbzc

John Doom said:

What about ROTJ in 3d?

I think the "hype" for 3d is almost gone by now: some years ago it was all about 3d, now it's about 4k (or 8k, or whatever). 3d also got unpopular because glasses were needed until now.

This may be on of the reasons why Disney is holding 3d rereleases back. Sure, TFA will be on 3d too, but it was mostly shot that way, so it costs them nothing to show it in that format, after all.

 The Model shots of the Original Trilogy would convert very well in to 3D... But there are an awful lot of 2D flat as a pancake imagery that will just refuse to translate in to 3D and many shots have little regard for 3D spacial realness.

That is of course unless you make a Special 3D version that compliments the film to be in 3D where it just will not translate into 3D at all.

Just saying that there is some very good reasons why the Original Trilogy will not be presented in 3D in it's Original and even Special Edition form.

And it's not worth having a put your glasses on take your glasses off scenario either. I doubt it will ever happen.

8K is already out there now. I saw an 8K screen this month, yeah it looks impressive.

So what is the point in 4K if it's only half the resolution of the new 8K screens?

It's quite honestly rather ridiculous now... Where is all the content.

HDTV Broadcasts are already in terms of quality going to fall behind and how on earth will 8K get transmitted through the air. I doubt it will. It will all probably come down fibre Optic cable. Will we see the end of Broadcast video? yeah I think in the next decade we will if not down cat6 then down fiber optic.

:) yep that was the pinnacle of the experience I think. A great moment that I will not forget.

The first film is Star Wars and it will always be Star Wars to me, no matter what you put at the start won't make a shred of difference.

NeverarGreat said:

So it looks like the shots are inconsistent from the outset, and simply correcting both with the same settings isn't going to fix these sorts of problems. If you want a global color fix (as you indicated earlier) then I entirely understand and retract my nitpick. Life is too short for shot by shot color corrections and sanity is a good thing :)

 That's what I noticed, it seems like it could do with a going over on a shot by shot basis in some regards. And I actually thought that was the purpose.

It would be quite something to really, go through it shot by shot and do CC on it.

I do think that is what it ultimately needs which is an awful lot of work but it's nothing too drastic either.

That has been a long time in the making and all the drama that surrounded it eventually being acquired.

A milestone indeed. Well done! Is it the actual sculpture you got modified, or totally a scratch built new sculpture?

Right, Dr Dre color Matching program whilst fascinating in it's own right of what it can do and I also don't want to hijack his 35mm regrade thread but I like generally a lot of the results he is getting.

I also agree Litemakr that the WOWWOW although not perfect is the better source from what I can see.

The only access I have to it is when Dr Dre posts a picture so I am not disputing his work but in looking at the last picture posted I tried to pull as much as I could out of the WOWWOW and found it settles nicely and looks natural all apart from the people in the truck were magenta and blue hues behind the window. Some sort of issue there and it seems inherited in all versions. So perhaps that is an issue across all versions? but I will share what I did. I'd really just like to see something that looked natural looking to be honest I had to color correct the inside of the truck separately so the people driving it look like normal people. I'm not saying it's right either but I am trying and it's good fun to see things differently.

Don't have the time or the tools, but I do like what you are doing none the less.

And I certainly think you are doing more good than bad, but this one feels wrong.

I think I remember this film far more desaturated when I used to watch it on TV years a go, so It's been color boosted from it's original look when it was digitized.

I am not knocking what you are doing I am giving you an honest opinion.

It's very clear that the yellow is blown out all over the place.

The WOWWOW is much more settled and has more detail because it's not blown out, but it's still not balanced and in my honest opinion it is oversaturated in Red and Yellow slightly undersaturated in cyan. Here is a twaek to the WOWWOW, I am looking for that grittiness to the scene, which is what makes it so brilliant.

But Honestly make it what ever color you like, I am just looking for the realism you might be looking for something else. But it is a preservation thread and I remember this as being gritty and dirty and not blown out and all yellow.