Ronster

I honestly love this film because it has it all but…

I have a few beefs to do with scenes being shuffled about and/or missing shots that complete the sequence. Basically anything that was re-arranged in a nonsense way bugs the hell out of me of what might have been… But I still adore it. The problem I think stems from because it was workprinted, edited and locked (Just like Star Wars) then somehow became unlocked and re-edited and had more music made and then they ran out of time / money released the 70mm… Then slightly edited the 35mm release but I want to see the first edit and the workprint versions of the film.

Something I was meaning to do for quite some time was try to figure out the workprint scene order for Lando, Leia, Chewie, C3-PO and R2-D2 on cloud city. Or something that flows much better…I doubt I will ever get it right (God help me!) I have been trying to figure it out for around 2 years now… I know I will never get it right but I keep going back and trying, and I had another go at it last night. I got closer but I am still a way off.

Here is where I am currently at…

https://vimeo.com/119593326

It’s not right and It probably never will be but it’s more right than what is in the film. It’s also an edit of sorts but really I should be using only gout footage.

If you notice R2-D2 smoking while he is trying to open the door that was an outtake from when he electrocuted himself edited in for his lines so it has to stay in the part it is although it’s not really meant to go there.

Ok when he confirmed Han Shot First I thought - Original Star Wars
and when he mentioned 40 years I thought - Original Star Wars

But some of the other stuff he has been talking about like the Biggs Stuff and him not getting a medal just seem to be not about a release of the Original Film but I think as perhaps would hint as the sort of thing you would find in say the special features of a DVD / Blu Ray.

I am going to wait with baited breath but I am not going to get too excited just yet It could literally be something else. Never assume anything

Density said:

joefavs said:

I doubt it’s his retirement, we know he’s doing VIII and this seems like a weird time to be making announcements about what he means to do beyond that. Honestly, the OUT didn’t even occur to me when I saw this story yesterday. Here’s hoping it’s that. Maybe a young Han Solo casting announcement? Though I doubt that would be Peter’s news to break. I guess we wait and see. How many pages is the SW shooting script, anyway?

I mean, he never says he would be the one making the announcement. Just that it would be “a” big announcement. My bet is that he knows Disney/Lucasfilm is announcing the OUT for the 40th anniversary on a certain date. It would explain why he’s sharing his script of the original film to commemorate the occasion. Seems more likely it’s about something old than something new.

And if that is true I really hope they not only release it on Blu-ray, but also screen the restoration in a theatrical re-release. I don’t want to get too excited, but with all the buzz going on recently it seems inevitable and the 40th anniversary, 20 years after the Special Edition, is the perfect time. Add on top of that Rogue One’s connection to the original and the fact that Episode 8 was pushed back to December and it seems like May 2017 would be the absolutely perfect time for a theatrical re-release. It’s like too perfect, all the stars are aligned exactly right. Disney would be stupid not to do it.

40th Anniversary Edition… Hmmm I’d buy it for sure, That seems like quite a long way off yet to make an announcement now but let’s wait and see 😃

Something I have thought about when it comes to releasing the original Star Wars movie, although I don’t particularly want it altered is there a need to alter it in certain places to get around legal issues? But I do hope it’s something in this vein I really do.

So did they replace the force ghost shot? It seems obvious that they did dying Vader from your comments but to what prowse voice too? so Is it safe to assume they dressed him up for the force ghost swap also?

It’s certainly interesting and to be perfectly honest If you compare the body of Davis Prowse with Sebasitian Shaw.

Davis Prowse had a lot of muscle and was a much larger build.

Sebastian Shaw looks plump and fat comparitively.

It’s not so much the face but the actual build of the man it’s actually pretty obvious it’s a different person when Sebastian Shaw is a force ghost… But I guess it can be explained away by Vaders replacement Robot Body parts so it does not really create an issue

Davis Prowse is also quite a bit taller which is another problem that sebastian Shaw obviously is not Vader as he Looks Stunted as a force ghost.

Was’nt the make up shot of Prowse back of his head for Empire Strikes Back and not Return of Jedi?

Well it got 3 Nominations but was pipped by Mad Max Fury Road and Ex Machina in the categories it could have won in or was considered for as being strong points.

Tough competition… To be honest both Mad Max and Ex Machina are very good films alongside The Revenant.

But like you say there is a clique and some winners already seem to be dubbed a full gone conclusion before they are even announced.

I think the category it was probably closest to winning for was visual effects for the animatronics but Ex Machina was pretty amazing how they did the robot stuff… It’s a tough call I do have more of a soft spot for Ex Machina though I have to admit.

I am actually a bit surprised TFA never got nominated for production design along with Crimson Peak

The Force Awakens never won any Oscars.

And I am also not surprised.

The Probe Scanner Revised (as uncut as I could make it)

https://vimeo.com/156984006

I have revised the version I had put up previously as It just did not make sense… Although I have deviated from the script slightly. This new version uses common sense.

I am now settled on this as being a far more accurate representation of what an uncut version of the probe droid sequence with station three - eight would be like.

This eliminates problems of the previous version and uses a simple scene re-arrangement to Improve the sequence much more. I don’t think this sequence could get much better now than this new version aside from clean up of the deleted scenes adding the actual missing transmission from station three eight and the missing shot of the snowspeeders.

It took quite a bit more thought on this to finally settle on this new version as more accurate and more sensible.

One more submission for the censorship theory to do with Lobot played by John Hollis from t-bones Star Wars.

But Hollis said dialogue wasn’t the only thing Lobot had cut from Empire, according to the Insider:

“A lot of death scenes were filmed,” he remembered. “There was a scene of me being carted off by men in white masks. But they would say, ‘Oh, we might need you again.’ There were a lot of people getting arrested, but they were very wary about showing people die.”

And I think that ties in nicely to why station three eight’s destruction got cut and also why perhaps we don’t see as many deaths as there were filmed especially in the final 3rd with the battle with the storm troopers. I know of at least one that is shown not to die but the scenes are re-arranged in such a way that the first time we see the storm trooper he is actually dead then a few shots later he is shown to be alive resurrected if you like. If Lobot were to be executed then it would have been a laser bolt sound without showing his actual death probably but we all know they would have blown his computer brains out.

Commander Rieekans Death was also another potential number to add to the death toll. Wether or not this was filmed I would have to say it probably was but he was meant to be crushed by machinary in the command center falling on him so it might have just been his arm sticking out and already dead but to be sure it’s yet another one to consider in the censorship of Empire Strikes Back

One more censorship related cut Chewie hits the storm trooper in full view in the film it is an alternate angle found in the 1982 re-release trailer for Empire Strikes Back. It might be an extra storm trooper that takes a serious beating rather than a push off the edge but either way it’s a violence cut. And it also probably relates to C3-PO’s full line “I’m not ready to die on the back of a demented wookie” heard in the story of LP

A copy of the Mcquarrie concept art… Just thought I would share it for fun! What a great shot It would have been…

Until more information surfaces the book shuts again 😃

Sorry slightly off topic, but I was not sure who to ask but I thought you might know the answer.

Was this trailer (1982 Re-release trailer) ever available in 35mm but in the aspect of 2:35:1?? .

http://thestarwarstrilogy.com/starwars/post/2014/02/10/Empire-Strikes-Back-35mm-1982-Re-release-Trailer-in-1080p

The reason I ask is because there are a couple of unique shots that can only be found in this trailer and nowhere else. But it is very badly cropped in the aspect ratio the trailer is in. I am just wondering if this trailer is available in the same or similar aspect ratio as the film.

Thanks

And keep up the great work!

Yeah, I seem to have actually quite misunderstood this scene of Lando, because I believe it actually refers to alternative sequence where he was actually meeting them on the platform without the main characters waiting and in unease about being there.

So I am now retracting my statement I thought it was a swap but this does not seem to be the case at all… Whoops!

Oh well all interesting stuff though none the less

There is no wrong or right answer to this it’s just what you would prefer

But I do think any Introduction of A character has to start somewhere. And Lando had already been introduced twice mentioned in name. So I personally think it would not be confusing who we were seeing or where it was.

But I do agree the way it is in the film is more mysterious.

I Suppose it’s in keeping with Harrisons fords first shot in the cantina in Star Wars also got scrapped too

I have been looking through trailers and I found a shot that is a fix for a continuity problem.

https://youtu.be/0ZSDZucchQc?t=10

When Han shoots at Vader in the Dining Room, Han goes from being standing shooting to suddenly being pulled away by Leia.

In the trailer here there features a reaction of Han to Vader Blocking the Laser Han fired and then him pushing Leia Behind him Leia Distraght tries to Tug Han away. Resume next blast of Laser fire from Han. Actually it might come before he uses his gun as the arm he uses to push Leia behind him Is the one he uses to also fire his gun.

Actually It corrects Leia being in front of Han…

Shame I can’t seem to find this trailer in the right aspect ratio or the same as the film… I’m sure you know of it but I have never seen this until just now or it never registered before until just now.

Anyway I really like the look on their faces, it is excellent.

It would have been the first shot of him in the film…If it had not have been changed

This Trailer also features the whole take of Han Walking Away from The Falcon… Which Is missing from the film. This is Probably where 3PO said “No one to meet us” Han seething in Anger at 3PO’s remarks

Just saying I think it’s interesting.

better version here…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fw64m4rMbpc

was this trailer ever re-leased in it’s full aspect ratio? (uncropped)

Yes It changes nothing plot wise which ever one you choose but which do you think is better i.e. which would you choose.

I honestly can’t think of any other instance of an alternate take in the OT.

I found this Alternate Take yesterday and what is interesting about it is you can only choose one of them. You can’t have both shots as it would not work… SO WHICH SHOT DO YOU CHOOSE AND WHY?

1. The Shot that is in the film… A shot of the Door with voice over from C3-PO saying “No one to meet us”

2. The Alternate take…A Shot of Lando walking with his Entourage through Cloud City

I have chosen the Alternate take because I think the live action is better and we still see that view of the door a couple of shots later… That is just me though… I’m interested in which Shot you would choose…Stick with what’s in the film or go Alternate?

Here’s a couple from Empire for you…It’s restoring music but also restoring scene orders as per the script. Right Footage order to the Music

SPACE SLUG ESCAPE
https://vimeo.com/138282638

The scenes were put back in the order they are in the script. The music flows better with the scenes I believe this was how the music was scored to the footage. A missing shot comes at the point when Leia says “The Cave is collapsing”

BETRAYAL AT BESPIN
https://vimeo.com/113088613

This is quite long winded but it needs to be to show the scene where Luke arrives in Bespin orbit and put the shot back in the location it was meant to be in as per all versions of the script and for which also the scenes were in this order when John Williams scored the music to the footage as you can tell by the placement of cues heard in the soundtrack. I had to do an alternative music edit as a cut away to put the scene and the music back as it was originally composed and intended.

Oh Yeah and BTW the special edition shots of the Falcon Coming in to Bespin PLatform were always planned…(or something similar) But that does not mean there was anything on the screen when John Williams scored it perhaps no place cards or animatics…so just something to take note of there. The script omits “No one to meet us?” and the shot of the platform door. This is replaced by a shot of Lando and his aides walking through cloud city seen in the theatrical trailer (1) so it might be worth seeing if all those add up to be spot on. But trust me that the shot of Lando with his aides will be exactly the same length probably as the shot of the door that is a hunch based on previous instances like this. Dead Painting vs actual film footage… I seen this alternate swap before in Empire.

I think your music cue is correct on this for Cloud city arrival. So basically there was no place card for it on screen at the time of scoring for any fly through… It was literally wiped out 😃 Try the swap shot though to see if there is any micro differences of Lando vs the doors.

Ok Had a Eureka moment and it’s to do with Trailer 1 of The Empire Strikes Back…

The Probe Droid / Imperial Fleet Cue, I noticed quite a long time a go that the flouish to do with the explosion where the Probe droid self destructs is coming in Early and also drowns out the sound of Han’s Blaster. Now correct me if I am wrong but this was scored by John WIlliams in February 1980 soon before the films release meaning that…The sound effects track was most likely finished when this part had music added.

If you check the trailer 1 again you will notice a short shot of the probe droid turning it’s head in close up. This might be meant to sit in that position within the footage. and when the music is added to the film the flourish should happen exactly on (or After) the explosion without drowing out Han’s Blaster so that both the music and sound effects tracks are working in unison.

I don’t believe that the music is the wrong speed though for the Probe droid… It’s possible that there is an intended break in the music before the music kicks in relating to the probe droid. Basically Back track from the explosion (or the Fleet cue) inserting the close up shot of probe droid from the trailer. Definitley have a very strong hunch about this. The IMperial Fleet cue seems 100% correct to me but what come before I do not think is correct.

The Guarenteed Golden rule for Empire is that if there is music cut you can be 99% sure some footage was cut also… But there are exceptions.

Don’t forget the Wampa deleted scene also!

I did the probe droid with the missing scene for you… I think it now lines up better with the footage so safe to assume when John Williams scored it that shot was in the sequence. It was throwing the music out and how it was meant to synch up by that whole second of time.

PROBE DROID
https://vimeo.com/156984006

Revised version

Do you have the Jason Wingreen Extra Dialogue from Rebel Strike???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDtYvRZrk40

Cool find of the day for me… I know he died recently… I had no idea he did the voice for Bobba Fett in this game. It’s the real deal… I don’t need it but I just hope you are aware of it.

The sounds I linked to you previously for this game only had the sound effects and no dialogue, so basically I hope you can track it down somehow.

Do you think these are actually out takes from the film???

EDIT:

My Bad it’s a guy called Chris Cox but it sounds very much like the real deal apologies…

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/voice-compare/Star-Wars/Boba-Fett/

I thought I might also add noticed in this video the sound of the storm trooper landing in a crumpled heap is also a top notch sound effect!

Ok a quick review pertaining to the sound mix and a few other points on the Hemdale DVD I bought thoroughly enjoyed watching it.

I noticed at various points the volume jumped up abnormally on certain scenes such as when kyle knees the guy in the police station to get the keys. There were a few other instances of this where I noticed that it happened. I’ll sight the need to rebalance the soundmix when this happens on those hand full of occasions.

When Arnie is pretending to be Sarahs mother “I love you too sweetheart” is badly out of synch with his lips

Great to hear the metallic sound back in the opening credits 😃

The Opening Shot of the Hunter Killer is repeated later in the movie when Kyle has a flashback. It’s ok but It would be great if that was a different shot on the second time round of a different shot of a Hunter Killer possibly from Battle across time. The repeat I feel Cheapens an already budget movie but used it’s budget extraordinarily well.

The picture I thought looked great I am going to check it against the Special edition DVD later on if I notice anything glaringly different I will point it out.

Ok this needs to be sorted out at some point… A complete version of the sound mix needs to be made and put to the film.

I really also think that some of the deleted scenes should be put in also making an ultimate cut. I know that there are some extended fan edits that I have read about but I think what is needed is one stage further even on what is available.

Here are a few thoughts I have had about “the terminator” for an ultimate special edition.

When the Terminator arrives it should have the burning crater as seen in terminator genisys.

When arnie goes to the edge of of griffith park perk high point we should see his bum (lol) but there is a scene from the trailer of him looking out over the city that was cut and is missing.

Reese arrives in a ball of light reference to the genisys special effects shot.

John Conner kills the terminator that infiltrates the base… Now that could be very difficult but yeah he was meant to save Reese. Damn why they never filmed that!

Improve the model of Arnie with Eye cut out to look real!!!

Yeah general improvements to blue screen shots matte lines.

Use extra effects shots from battle across time (3d ride) in future war scenes of Hunter Killers flying over buildings etc and show Skynet with the gun turrets matte painting

And that is about it with the Most complete sound mix possible. That is my dream

Going to watch it tonight…

City In the Clouds Part 2 (Restored)

The missing footage card is in the wrong place but you are right there is a missing scene there.

Actually I thought there was no music for it… Basically the missing footage is at the iris transition.

It was meant to be an establishing shot of the Falcon in Space flying towards the planet Bespin.

There may also have been a slight extension to the first shot of the falcon flying past the camera, this is speculation but the camera would have dropped through the clouds before the falcon flys past.

It is possible that there is meant to be a small break at the Harp gliss prior to the iris transition to accomodate missing / extended scenes and take in to account Falcons Roaring engines.

Check your cue for the timpani hits. They are to do with the doors and then Lando appearing at the door. The special edition shots were in fact planned shots that never made it in the film so the music is restored to a point in the Special edition. Use the special edition footage here to correct the timing of the music at the end for the cues for Landing platform doors.

With that said the cue seems to be correct for the tension string right at the end when Lando threatens Han. So perhaps I am wrong there and the Special Edition shots were something that was never planned… unless there is a meant to be a music edit that is. Perhaps it is just coincidence the timpani hits line up with the two shots of the door when you add the extra music to the special edition?

So what is the verdict then???

Did they edit the mono and insert a few missing foley work sound effects that were never used or is it revisionism?

cool if it was missing foley work…interesting if they did extra foley work on the oringinal mono

I can not see anything grandiose about it, It is what it is a new element…

Edit.

Just wanted to elaborate on why the Carbonite block Slam is late in the special edition. Is probably due to failing to duplicate or replicate the music edit in the original when making the new sound mix.

Carbon Freeze, Original Music Score (Credit- Fishmanlee)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxQSwI5aPja9UW9aUVhRUWVhQjg/view

^ Honestly I can tell the difference but I can not tell the difference top marks in my opinion.

Grandiose?

I am merely referring to the differences in the sound mix it is not anything to difficult and if you watched the block slam down a number of times you would notice it…I am quite sure it’s a fairly known thing now?

Seriously do you think I am being hienous or something?

hmmm perhaps you did a lazy reply no big deal anyway.

Could you clarify which releases feature the sound mix you are talking about please.

I am interested in knowing what this MGM mono mix comes from. Is it the US special edition?

I watched my 5 disc edition the other day I watched the workprint cut and dangerous days and all the other supplements.

I hope you finish this soundtrack collection off.

Great soundtrack and a great film too.

It’s certainly one of the best soundtracks for a film ever and I hope this project completes.

I read up about some of the sound cues that were missing… Found this might be of use I am not sure.

http://bladerunnermusic.blogspot.co.uk/