You won’t be seeing a restoration on Star Wars from 1977 being sold on it’s own.
I think it’s very possible that you will. Probably not as the only option, but I will be surprised (and annoyed) if they don’t release the movies as barebones single discs for the people who just want the OUT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0kcet4aPpQ
This Video will make you understand.
Yeah and not really changed it digitally with a load of new ideas that were never intended. Although you could argue Jabba was intended you could never Argue that the Greedo scene had the insert filmed to make the Jabba scene not required.
Just not using trickery to make a new edition. Give us the tie fighters being blown up or any other Lost scenes like the deleted land speeders driving through mos eisley. If you do a special edition normally you add stuff that got cut for either time or pacing. But A special edition does away with that especially as far as John Williams score goes also.
You add back bit’s from the cutting room floor. If you don’t want to change it by adding things that were removed you don’t make a special edition.
But I am ok with fixing dodgy special effects or enhancing them just don’t make whole new ones unless it was actually meant to be that way and could not be done at the time for what ever reason.
The SE should not exist, period.
The Special Edition should have been done like any other Special edition?
Happy Halloween Ladies 😃
I just wanted to add a bit of trivia to this because I think it is a small but important find. Take note of the shot of Han when he is looking at Bolo before he is knocked out. For some strange reason this small bit footage was played in reverse. So I un-reversed it so it now plays as it was meant to.
Not sure if the shot of Roper was “Meant to be” the final hit but It’s the only footage I could find that is not in the film originally and his leg is low enough to be kicking Bolo in the head to finish him off. So I used it. Note Bruce lee is right behind him on that small snippet and it follows on to the next shots also for Bruce and Ropers positioning on the field.
Note also Bruce Lee and Han have been cropped from the sidelines as they shout commands to the Martial artists and lost drunken men. Bruce and Han were not in character and not meant to be in the shot.
Mei Ling is now silent and deadly.
The problem with such high bit rates is streaming it requires you have a very good internet connection to appreciate the quality. So physical media won’t die it will just be more high end and more costly. There is too much money to be made from slapping a disc in a steel book and charging way over what it should cost for a art print and so on. This is a whole rip off industry in itself and is probably one of the few revenue streams studios can rely on. But blu-rays going for £200 and stuff on ebay just because they are in a tin?
We-should be re-opening the old Cornish tin mines for that sort of money for tin. Give them a nice Pasty and a few quid… Seriously though very rarely is their any special video content on those overpriced releases. There is very little that is special about these Steel books these days apart from a different cover.
But the IPTV roll out is the way it’s going agreed it’s cheaper and easier and more cost effective and saves space rather than have a huge stack of physical media (Yes guilty). Easier for families yes agreed. Good internet - Getting Expensive.
I’d also like to add my Bank gives me free cinema tickets… Cinema is being fueled even by those free ticket roll outs where bums on seats are being paid by promotion to keep it alive.
Look there will always be a case for a good bootleg and I am not slapping anyone for that, but Investors / shareholders probably just want to invest in the new more than the old. I was just trying to think of a way to re-package the old with something new.
I am waiting for an official release and that is that because I can wait.
Well I personally I am waiting for the 8K ultimate ego maninac edition to surface so I might just sit it out until then.
It’s shots like the Death Star surface which are reasons against having Star Wars in 4K when they are that smooth grey ball. Which is one of the few reasons not to have Star Wars in 4k.
Get Out.
Your ideas have nothing to do with a restoration. Your thoughts belong in the Fan Edit section of the forums.
JEDIT: Thought this was the #4K77 thread. Still, all this Star Wars ride crap has nothing to do with a restoration of Star Wars '77.
I was talking about how it could be packaged to make it appealing. You won’t be seeing a restoration on Star Wars from 1977 being sold on it’s own.
Actually according to Disney you probably won’t be seeing a 4K restoration if that is what they are claiming un-interest. And it will be a Blu-ray at 1080p.
As soon as the Original unaltered film were to be released there would be damnation of how certain aspects were not right and people would set about copying it and altering it in order to fulfill their own tastes. Where the majority of people will like the release but ultimately be a flash in the pan. Cool we got the original film, then the claims about how superior the special editions are will start to be shouted out across the media and “I forgot how bad some of the special effects were” start to echo.
I think Disney should release the OT and a new Special Edition. This would be the best course of action to please everyone. I was merely trying to state how if they do a special edition I don’t want it being crammed full of CGI.
I am actually trying to find the thing that will fly off the shelves like there is no tomorrow to actually make it viable.
A mass produced Original Unaltered version of Star Wars sold on it’s own will sell well at first but ultimately end up a bargain bucket title unlike all the new films which the this generations Kids Love.
The Kids of today might like Star Wars from 1977 but they will prefer the new films more. Which put’s the old film from 1977 in a bit of a predicament 40 years later of how to sell it all over again to the Kid’s of today. And the Kid’s have already seen it from their parents DVD collection.
You obviously don’t really care about anyone who should care to put money in to making it happen to make it economically viable to do so.
And most people will just settle for their free bootleg fan re-creation making it even less economically viable to do a proper job on it because you can get it pretty much for free.
Perhaps a better strategy is to create another 6 different versions of Star Wars simultaneously so people have to buy the film six times and observe all the differences.
I don’t want to fix anything because I know I lack the expertise to do it proper justice. I was pointing something out.
I am not surprised at all at the response from the preservation arena. I am not arguing either.
I am not trying to undermine the goal of any sort of preservation effort of a film. I don’t want to make a thread about an observation when I have no current plan to do anything with this film unless I thought it was worth the scope of me spending quite a lot of months doing it and even then I know I have not quite got what it takes to achieve what I would want. I’m also not making suggestions.
I was simply trying to explain Harrison Ellenshaw’s Matte painting was encroaching on another element that would make up the whole image and that I felt it was a shame that it’s that way.
Now If you’ll excuse me I am about to goose walk off to me DVD collection grab my original copy of Star Wars but whilst doing so I shall hold one hand under my nose and shout.
Good day to you 😃
So am I right in saying that nobody want’s the millennium falcon with it’s rear end chopped off?
But we have to have that because that’s the way it’s always been.
We need more films like “Vanishing Point” that’s for sure.
I am trying to be helpful not hinder I am not asking for anything from anyone of you just showing you something.
I am talking about peoples perception of what they expect today. You won’t find copies of “vanishing Point” from 1971 flying off the shelf six to the dozen in a mad craze to have it on DVD or Blu Ray. It’s a fairly niche film with a cult following. People who like it might prefer one version or the other.
Star Wars has an element of this but it is hugely well known and it is already in a lot of peoples DVD or Blu-ray collection but it’s more than likely “The Special Edition”.
Star Wars has nothing individual about it, It’s a “Hive Mind” type of film and utterly commercial. In spite of what people say about the Special Edition versions the unfortunate truth is that they are more marketable to the mainstream mass of Star Wars consumers who will buy it.
I want a decent copy of the Original film but I will only accept like you are doing here a proper scan from prints.
But with that said Even though I would like a decent release, I can see the validity of the special edition version.
I am not someone who craves CGI or anything like that. But as Mike put it, “The Suspension of Disbelief” is what counts. And my Belief is Suspended by that shot.
^ This Greedo.
A Preservative also keeps something to last longer than it would do without it.
As nice and as amazing as the original unaltered film is… If it’s rotten or showing moldy bit’s on it you won’t want to consume it.
It’s not an argument I get it. But how many people want moldy or rotten bits.
Being Marketable is a very important factor also.
Preservations don’t turn a blind eye to goofs, rather they’re lauded. “Warts and all” is the nuts and bolts of a good preservation, once you start fixing things it quickly turns revisionist. It isn’t at all that preservation should be redefined, but that you need to find the correct words to describe what you want.
Perhaps yes, there could be a perfect version that could come from fixing things that weren’t intended to end up the way they did, but that’s a moving target which cannot be reached and satisfy all people. Any way you go about it, though, it is outside of the scope of a project like this.
Understood. Yes chasing the dream and trying to understand the reasoning behind the butchering whilst still not totally fixing the only problem it had.
Never mind bit of fun I guess 😃
“Intention” is the word I am looking for I hope mike re-aligns those flashes It proves we still have not seen STAR WARS even nearly 40 years later.
Indeed, like what Mike has done.
But I think the main motivation for the change is now clear. But with that said they still missed a small slither off the back right hand corner so It could not have been the main motivation.
I did a quick edit on the special edition to roughly fill in the full shape. I am no expert artist but this is the best I could do. And it’s a damn shame they did not fix it properly whilst changing stuff to make inconsistancy.
My wish would be have the Original Hangar and the full Millennium Falcon shape but I know what preservation types are like they are too strict perhaps when it comes to a goof like that. I’d like to re-define what preservation is but they won’t have it.
Mike I have just been looking at some of your videos.
I have a comment on this one for you.
Where the Hanger entrance to Space is, it cut’s off the Back of the Millennium Falcon. That is all really I wonder if there is remnants of the full falcon image without the Hanger entance /exit to outer space cutting off it’s rear end?
Seems like another Blooper.
I know the back of the live action Hanger was false perspective so It’s probably some kind of goof in measurement.
It would be nice if it exists to put the back of the falcon back in to the image. It’s from the photo half of the Falcon… But it could be that Ellenshaw Matte painting is covering the back right hand side matting the back out of the Falcon(Photo Side).
It’s easy to tell because the guns have been chopped in half. Is there anyway you could get your hands on the original photo they used?
I am not confused, I just don’t think it is needed now I have thought about it. It throws up more than about 5 questions.
Where as if it was silent you would only have 1 question which is simple and effective.
So I was talking about the Death Star Surface and then I Realised what about that old set that was a joint Lucusfilm & Disney project.
The Star tours footage from the original ride would be perfect to add perspective to the surface of the death star when it is just that flat grey smooth ball. There is probably lot’s of footage and outtakes from this that could easily be re-purposed for the death star surface and it is also a practical not digital effect. And it’s really superior to many of the backgrounds like below. And I also believe it was much bigger hence the perspective you get.
There is really no in between either you are right near the surface or you are really far away in Star Wars and you never really see the scope of the surface of the Death Star like you do in Star Tours.
Another example of the non detailed surface
Star Tours perspective of Death Star surfce
or perhaps cgi would be better.
Wouldn’t that require a Star Tours restoration?
Side note: I think I’ve said this before but Star Tours would be an awesome bonus feature, much like the Back to the Future Trilogy comes with BTTF: The Ride.
The only thing that would be of interest would be individual elements. As you would not want to include the Star Tours ride footage in Star Wars in Raw Footage. So you would only be interested in the Death Star Surface Element footage really to add detail where very little was present. It’s shots like the Death Star surface which are reasons against having Star Wars in 4K when they are that smooth grey ball. Which is one of the few reasons not to have Star Wars in 4k.
Yeah takes me back to when I visited Florida when I was young does Star Tours. Would be nice for a restoration of the Ride like you say.
There is a nice alternate angle of Han Solo running up the Ramp in Mos Eisley port on to the Falcon which is better than what is in the film which I have spotted. The Snap cut to chewie in the cockpit is an odd edit as it breaks the flow of the action. As they take off there is some weird guy in a green suit in the corridor behind the cockpit (behind them) as they prepare to take off. Not sure what that is?
The Death Star Hanger not sure what is going on there exactly but it seems that there has been a re-arrangement in footage as we see a storm trooper fall to the ground then we see him being shot a few moments later. Also Leia Repaets the same dialogue take “Come On!” Twice. So I wonder if there is an Alternate audio take for Leia saying come on in a more heightened state.
I am not confused, I just don’t think it is needed now I have thought about it. It throws up more than about 5 questions.
Where as if it was silent you would only have 1 question which is simple and effective.
So I was talking about the Death Star Surface and then I Realised what about that old set that was a joint Lucusfilm & Disney project.
The Star tours footage from the original ride would be perfect to add perspective to the surface of the death star when it is just that flat grey smooth ball. There is probably lot’s of footage and outtakes from this that could easily be re-purposed for the death star surface and it is also a practical not digital effect. And it’s really superior to many of the backgrounds like below. And I also believe it was much bigger hence the perspective you get.
There is really no in between either you are right near the surface or you are really far away in Star Wars and you never really see the scope of the surface of the Death Star like you do in Star Tours.
Another example of the non detailed surface
Star Tours perspective of Death Star surfce
or perhaps cgi would be better.
Well I just read that the original sound was taken from the Hannah Barbara Sound Library. Also this means royalty payments for the use of that sound.
If this is the case that means that it was just a random sound effect from somewhere else used for the “Howling Moan” as the script put’s it. There is no mention of it being a “Krayat Dragon” apart from in a kids junior novel and the radio drama by Brian Daley (Which would reference George Lucus notes)
The script makes no mention of it being a Krayat dragon.
It seems the Later special editions try to reference the howling moan a bit closer mentioned in the script rather than an animal cry as the later versions sound more Human.
So what is it? Do I need to read the book or the script to understand what it is exactly even though there is a contradiction.
In all honesty I can imagine the original sound being changed to avoid the royalty payments though.
I think George should explain exactly what this scene is actually about too. Is it Ben putting an image in the Tuskan raiders heads with the force?
It is actually really hard to understand the exact intention of this howl and what if anything it represents.
I could easily opt for silence and the sight of the wandering wizard of which the sand people were aware of is enough to scare them. You then ask the question why are they scared of this old man? Rather than could it be that strange sound that scared them off?
You take for instance the Krayat dragon call. That’s one of the sand people not a Krayat Dragon, Obi-wan is not making that sound… It is absurd to think so. it’s probably just missing the close up of a tuskan raider reacting to the old man approaching.
What are you even going on about. Of course that was Obi-wan that made the howl. Are you insinuating that Tusken Raiders are so dumb they spook themselves?
No.
If you watch the scene the Tuskan Raiders turn and then you hear the noise start. Then we cut to Old Ben Kenobi waving his arms about.
It is not cut to Ben and that noise starts.
Believe what you want I don’t mind but the sound effect in all 3 versions (I prefer the original sound) does not sound like it is made in that environment. It is a raw sample with no environment manipulation to sound distant or anything like it is coming from the place that we are watching in the film. And it is simply loud in volume and raw and has no relationship really to anything else we hear from that environment. I looked at the novel description and it does indeed say it’s Obiwan making that noise but I got to say I think it’s a bit weird. It would be better to have actually had a Krayat dragon scare the sand people away and then Obiwan lumbers over the hill as the Dragon makes chase to the Tuskan Raiders.
Anyway I have been watching the making of Star Wars today (documentary). There are blue screen shots of tie fighters been blown apart… Not once can I remember a tie fighter being blown apart it was always covered by an explosion. And they snap cut from the debris flying off or the tie fighters breaking apart. They did do this for the rebel ships though. Now that’s a good idea for a special edition. Restore the tie fighters being blown up.
There were things that could not be done or were not entirely clear.
I would want the extra snippets re-inserted because that is how you do a proper special edition. Not come up with a bunch of new ideas.
Aesthetically pleasing is a different ball game and revamping something visually I am not against and if you were to do Star wars from 1977 in 3D flat 2D pancake shots would have to go and be made in a 3D environment in some instances. Take for instance the surface of the death star in the battle of yavin it’s plan grey with no detail what so ever in the background whilst the model x-wing footage looks fantastic (in some shots).
But get those new ideas away from a film made in 1977 unless it was originally planned.
You take for instance the Krayat dragon call. That’s one of the sand people not a Krayat Dragon, Obi-wan is not making that sound… It is absurd to think so. it’s probably just missing the close up of a tuskan raider reacting to the old man approaching. It needs the original sound mixed to sound like it’s in the canyon and not a raw sample with no environment effects.
The question marks relate to extra footage I am not entirely sure exists without looking in to it further, but pick me up if there were not extra Cantina Aliens or extra gun fight footage on the Tantive IV. I am sure I saw an extra shot the other day on board the Tantive and I thought wow! that’s great but it had no lasers rotoscoped in on it.
Another change you can expect is the star destroyers being revamped to have lights on the models.
Re: Cantina - I hope we get the proper shot of walrus man’s arm being chopped off too. Along with the missing laser bolt being deflected back a that bloke with the scars all over his face.
My money is on a revamped 40th Anniversary edition which will include the Original theatrical version as well.
If you looked at the video from Star Wars celebration Europe/ John Knoll who was I think the lead on the special edition in 1997. He has already been tinkering about with the death star Hanger which has major issues. Claiming it was just a project he was doing in his spare time…
Mentioning the shape of the death star was like oval or egg shaped and it was not meant to be. The deathstar has been re-created meticulously digitally but is the shape it was meant to be now.
And also the death star plans were incorrect as an earlier design was given to the animator of the stolen plans and the death star dish was in the wrong place. This has been re-created meticulously. And the error could be easily fixed also.
We know the Massasi Temple is missing from a number of shots in the special edition also and it is clearly present in Rogue one.
But I would also imagine some very current unpopular changes will be reversed (there is little guess work about what needs to be removed to make it not stupid or horrible plastic looking). I would hope that we get to see a few extra snippets of footage intergrated as well from the actual time the film was made along with some cut music also perhaps. Definitely un-censor the gunshots.
I would hope for a 3 or 4 disc version with a bonus disc also.
As Far as extra footage goes this is what I know of and would include in a new special edition.
Not keen on shoehorning in any “new footage” filmed especially or characters. All of that should go pretty much. Aesthitic backgrounds I can live with and matte painting replacements and matte line removal. CGI models as long as they are done photogrammetry from the original models they would look very very similar.
That’s my rule book on it.
The running time of “Rogue One” has been revealed via an Australian listing to be 133 minutes.
The Usual complaints about it’s not long enough have ensued after this leak.
Let’s hope it’s tight and well paced.
The technology is already here but yeah it’s not easy and probably never will be.
But those wax works or model busts you can scan for a 3D mesh then you use photogrammetry to skin the mesh.
You can do this with any number of frames from a film to skin say an actors head and create a very real version of anyone. But you do need an accurate mesh to skin.
It is in and from this field where the new wave of technology will emerge from virtual reality / augmented reality / 3D scanning and mapping and 3D printing.
The toys of the future based on say a property like STAR WARS will be the actual full scale props scanned and skinned and scaled down and will be practically 100% accurate. And they can be printed out.
Our detention cells at the Imperial Palace are second to none. Come and stay with us you’ll never want to leave…
😃