Ronster

SilverWook said:

dahmage said:

Wolfman said:

dahmage said:

So who is planning to buy pre-sale tickets? IMAX 3D? Standard 3D? Standard?

I’m booked for the 12:05 showing Thursday 15th and also an evening showing on the 16th in 2D, here in the UK.

nice. still waiting to buy tickets here … 😦

SilverWook said:

I still can’t find any info about possible 70mm venues, and the IMAX I saw TFA at back in January seems to be closing for repairs or something on opening day. 😦

that is terrible timing!

I know. I hope they aren’t replacing the projector with that new laser system they’ve been installing elsewhere.
And if Batman Vs. Superman could get 70mm prints, why not Rogue One?

The Laser projectors look brilliant because you don’t get hot spots.

Basically you won’t see the intense whiter shade of blue in the middle and the image is linear in color temperature. And you can sit next to it and it won’t sound like a hair dryer and it does not kick out a tonne of heat either. They also last a long, long time unlike even the best Bulb technology.

ZkinandBonez said:

Turns out they were in fact shield gates;

“It’s part of their military industrial complex. It’s not necessarily where the Death Star was constructed, but a lot of military research goes on there,” Swartz says. “That’s why Krennic spends time there. It’s the site of research, structural engineering, munitions and manufacturing, all rolled into one facility.”

Ok that’s pretty interesting and leading statement that the Death Star does not orbit Scarif at all by the sounds of it.

But If you think about the original leaked teaser with the tie fighter that flew over the jungle that was “Scarif”.

This is not Scarif so where is it?

The other Planet what is it Eadu? That has rings visible in the sky… When Krenicks ship flys over the beach.

Could this be that Blue misty Planet (Malpaz?) in the day time?

Or is this another planet all together?

Or is it indeed Scarif?

This is a spoiler thread isn’t it?

I Spoil.

Protect TV Spot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kdfpvdAOsk

This next one is really good Cassian and Jyn… Bit of hand holding going on. And some nice new visuals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uss2S4cFVbQ

The cringe Line line is back but it’s a better different take 😃

Only another 20 more TV spots to go!!!

Another thing I am noticing and I am very glad is that we are starting to hear some more uplifting music themes being introduced which is really what it needed.

See here.

http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2016/11/star-wars-secret-the-empire-strikes-back-millennium-falcon-build-film-screened.html

Sounds interesting.

Hey whilst totally not trying to sound detrimental in anyway. I have no idea about ridiculous edits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGBqW37-5L0

New “Dream” TV Spot.

If you have seen the previous TV spots there is not a whole lot different here. But… There is an amazing shot of an x-wing barrel rolling with a tie fighter on it’s back.

ROGUE RECON 3D Experience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh8sTR2b4zI

Well he has cropped up as a character depicted fighting on scarif for battlefront Rogue One expansion.

I don’t know what exactly the history of any of these species are but It seems weird to put him there. Might not be him but a sullustarian.

Anyway there will be further EU history re-written as Biggs seems to be in and already a pilot. Porkins is also in. Them 2 pilots are 100%

Nien Nunb might be in Rogue One.

He is Lando’s alien co-pilot in Return of the Jedi.

Should make this a Sticky Thread.

Wow some of them new shots look really great. I like the Yavin 4 night shot the most I think.

I have no doubts this is going to look amazing on the big screen and they have definitely improved the dialogue from way back.

All set to go Rogue 😃

ZkinandBonez said:

It has been suggested that these rings might be Star Destroyer docking stations.
As far as adding things we’ve not seen before this at least makes a lot of sense, compared to adding new fighters.

I’m still curious about what that thing hovering in the middle is supposed to be?

Could be?

Looks like a star Destroyer in the top left of the first photo… Sheild gate and Dry dock?

I am dragging my feet on this a bit at the moment… But I am not quite finished either I need to concentrate on work that earns me money, I don’t have the will to finish it at present I needed a break.

I have re-arranged the middle part and I am making a number of other edits.

I am also re-doing the mirror maze sequence to be better still.

I think with about another 4 days work on it. 40 - 60 hours It will be finished. Could be more work than that to be honest because I will be adding extra end credits also.

I could use some advice on best way to upscale also perhaps recruit some more detail from it.

EDIT

You know a lot of work I did is kind of not noticeable on this really because I color corrected a version very similar to the laser disc theatrical version and I have ended up with pretty much the same results as the official release. At the end of the day it probably would have been better to use a better color corrected release but I wanted to learn color correction… If you want to learn color correction I would reccomend doing what I did get the Diagostini version or the laserdisc and color correct it and find it comes out very similar to the special edition. I am glad I did it though as I learnt a lot it’s just not too noticeable what I actually did it’s only on a few occasions I probably outshone the special edition release and it could only be for a few minutes or a few seconds. It is possibly one of the best learning films for color correction although like I said it’s very similar to the special edition or not even noticeable in many cases. It took a lot of time and you could say wasted time but not for me.

John Knoll is Senior Visual effects Supervisor at Lucusfilm he is also responsible for heading up a lot of the Cgi in the Special Editions

Chirrut Imwe - Donnie Yen

Who knows what he will see through the force but I am more interested in what he might hear.

Lord Haseo said:

Makes sense but I could have sworn this novel was about Jyn’s father and the creation of the Death Star.

If it is Magic Stick Man the problem I have would be smaller but it would still be there. I would prefer his character to believe in The Force but not be able to draw upon it.

I’m pretty sure he would be able to see a training remote with the blast shield down.

djsmokingjam said:

Ronster said:

If you can’t accept it has got some serious faults but it also has good things about it also then I don’t know really.

Ronster, it appears you are mistaking your own subjective opinions for cold hard fact, an approach that has no place in discourse about film (unless it’s to settle whether Greedo or Han shot first, of course). Lots of people, myself included, thoroughly enjoy Friedkin’s original cut, despite - or even because of - the “faults” that you describe. I can’t help but think that your hostility towards some of Friedkin’s artistic decisions was exacerbated by your reading so much about the film before seeing it and, in effect, deciding what the film would or should be before you even saw it. Leave the film alone for a week and then try to come back to it with zero expectations, and see what you think of Friedkin’s “mistakes” then. It’s a difficult (though I wouldn’t say incoherent) film, and it’s supposed to be. The European cutdown being supposedly easier to follow (and shorter) does not necessarily make it a better film.

Nonetheless, I thoroughly support any endeavour to preserve or re-create the cutdown, or do an “integral” combo of both cuts, and would happily do the former myself if I had access to the Finnish VHS I mentioned earlier to get the original audio.

I am not trying to point out mistakes. Whenever I get interested and invested in a film I will read up about it before seeing it. Not to spoil it mind.

I wanted to give you an honest opinion about the film. I am not being hostile towards it. I do admire it in a lot of ways. But please realize I am not wanting to change the film really in any drastic way. Since spending quite a few years here now looking at films and analyzing all sorts of things. I am a great believer in small things can really make a massive difference when it comes to film. The smallest thing can completely change something whilst it’s not really that different the whole meaning might change for instance.

Basically I would like to experience the international cut (probably agree it’s worse than Friedkin’s?)

But take in to account what is good about it and as you say intergrate that in to the existing cut.

I stopped the film at one point whilst I was watching it because I wondered where the trees came from that engulfed the truck on the bridge. I stopped a rewound it to see if I had missed something.~(This was the only point I stopped it because I thought I had missed something) I had not. When looking at the international cut report I noticed the bridge half collapses and… Then the trees cave in on the side of the bank on the truck. Also when the truck leaves the bridge it drives clearly away from the bridge in the international cut. as soon as the wheel lifts over the last log we cut away.

It was things like that, that felt choppy as the pace of the film is not fast but all of a sudden there is a sudden abrupt cuts and it feels like stuff is missing. And when you look at the report you can clearly see that there are missing shots there.

I am being honest and really not slagging the film off at all. I don’t think the film was badly made as in the cinematography or the sound mixing.

Subtitles were not good. I think that is a fair comment and if you compare it to the script entry they only translate what is translated in the script. I doubt the Spanish version subtitles or French version subtitles skip over loads of English dialogue?

The only visual edit I would advocate is the telescopic sight overlay. If you check the censorship report about this point in the film of the German version there is 2 different shots of the truck. One of those shots was meant to have a telescopic sight superimposed over it (Probably the one in the German version)… Before the wheel get’s blown out. So it’s a simple overlay. Job done in my mind. It’s clearly stated in the script. The wheel is blown out by a terrorist with a rifle that has a telescopic sight.

Blue Ray

I had a go.

I did not have a problem following the story on my first viewing.

It’s not got anything to do with explaining anything in terms of the story. I was simply trying to find an anchor for the characters names. If you walk away from a film not knowing any of the characters names after watching it that is always a bad sign and because they don’t really speak to each other either then they never really establish the characters names well enough fake or real.

After the driving the truck test when the Guardia comes out and calls their names as chosen. There are no subtitles and he has a thick Spanish acent. Then when the Hitman bloke kills one of the chosen crew to drive the trucks. He is never named throughout the whole film I don’t think. He is just there and speaks about 3 times.

Perhaps that was the moment to really cement at least 3 of the characters via subtitles?

If you can’t accept it has got some serious faults but it also has good things about it also then I don’t know really.

Even though these characters are undesirables, we are meant to slightly grow to care about them… But only a little.

I think the real question is if not the Crawl we all know then what will it be?

There’s a nice mystery and anticipation about it but it can also harbour a sense of dread that it really might feel odd without it also.

It’s a mixed bag and it’s certainly brave decision to lose the crawl. It will definitely be Marmite… wait a minute Star Wars opening crawl looks a bit like a jar of Marmite 😃

Criterion sorted that out it was one of their first Blu-rays.

I changed my mind I give sorcerer 6/10 now.

I really want to see it with all the 16 minutes footage re-inserted correctly and the extra music to see if it would work better (I think it would work much better TBH).

Each Prologue should have been separated by the characters name as a chapter header. I really think something as small as that would help it out a lot too. One of the main problems is they have different fake names when they get to Vera Cruz and it’s hard to follow who they were and who they are pretending to be now. This really does not help on a first viewing. I don’t know, all I know is that I could not grasp the names of the characters on a first viewing.

Having at least one name to cling to could be just the ticket. I also thought about the alternative as showing each characters fake passport before their prologues with their fake names and their mugshot.

ImperialFighter said:

The thing I’m gonna miss more than anything with the removal of a ‘chapter crawl’ at the start…is the booming Williams ‘main theme’ which usually accompanies it.

I was kinda hoping that the original Williams theme would remain a mainstay of the STAR WARS spin-offs, regardless of whoever was scoring each of the ‘standalone’ movie soundtracks. It’s gonna be strange for things to kick off without hearing it, no matter how the new titles are done.

It’s fairly easy to fix that though and if it’s not there someone will do it 100% guaranteed, so very little to be upset about in the long run.

Let’s not forget Lalo Schifrin and THX also.

darthrush said:

I agree with John Campea that this is a mistake by Lucasfilm if they drop the crawl. It has been apart of not just the saga films but the comic books, novels and video games. You have 2 hours to give us a new distinct type of Star Wars movie. If they really want to make the anthologies different in more important and meaningful ways then shake up the tone of the films, or take on a unique narrative style. That’s what I want from the anthologies. Not trashing an inherent part of almost all Star Wars movies (the crawl).

It won’t ruin the movie for me though in the slightest. I will get over it real quick but nevertheless (IMO) it is an unnecessary and dumb decision by Lucasfilm.

I have to agree.

If a child does not have the same distinctive features as it’s parents you would think it’s somebody else’s child.

But if it’s gone it is gone.

Hmmm to reconstruct a Uk theatrical release it would need the German Broadcast and that Finnish VHS audio.

Friedkin, to be honest I don’t know much about him or this film but he is one of those tinkerers who likes to mess with his films. Yet he is slamming the other cut and doing the same himself what a hypocrite.

The European or international cut despite the Flashbacks instead of prologue would be the proper extended cut of the film. as far as movie censorship report goes for the Tangerine dream tracks, 4 tracks seem to be omitted due to scenes being cut short. Considering the film is hailed for it’s wonderful soundtrack this is a real shame. It’s not like it would not be against Friedkin’s morals to restore those cut’s and the music, if you are going to tinker with the film at least tinker with it in a way that would actually restore something rather than change it.

Furthermore there was a 16mm scan done by someone I came across a site showing some pictures and saw the original subtitles briefly there.

https://sorcerer1977.wordpress.com/about/

Again let me re-itterate I have not seen this film so I have little knowledge only what I am reading on the internet.

Friedkin is not sueing anybody the case was withdrawn before a proper trial ensued.

UPDATE

I have just seen it, I streamed the film as I did not feel like paying £70.00 to see it.

I am going to give a small review.

It’s a good slow burner. And I can see how it’s labelled classic but by no means is it a masterpiece.

It is all very clear that the some scenes from the German version are missing from the film where we have abrupt cuts. Although if the report from movie censorship is accurate then at least 2 shots have been included that were not in the DVD version. which I would identify as rope on the bridge snapping and the truck wheel blowing out on the mountain top.

The Subtitles are awful looking. And the translation is sparce. So far as the french translation goes it seems only one word is missing when he shouts in the office. The Spanish translation is almost lazy and chooses to skip over many of the people speaking in Spanish or Spanish dialogue.

I could understand some of the Spanish being spoken but for someone who has no knowledge of the language it would get confusing.

I honestly cannot tell you any names of any of the characters in this film because they never really speak to each other.

I think it is a good film but also I feel it really fails in a lot of ways and I also think William Friedkin tried to make Roy Scheider less of the main character in some respects when looking at the German version report from movie censorship as they all more or less revolve around Roy Sheider. William Friedkin also claims that he wished he had got Steve McQueen instead.

It does get gripping but it’s a bit dismal and none of the characters really get developed enough even though we are not meant to care about them. It’s one big stitch up and that does come across in a strong way. That everyone in this film is screwing someone over and the reason you end up in this sort of place is because they have been screwed over and screwed others over and this is where these types can only really go to hide.

All in all I’d like to see the other cut or a mixture of both with better subtitles. This film could be better with a bit more TLC.

The main flaws reside in Wanting to diminish Roy Scheider to not being the main Character
Not enough character interaction
Translating selective Dialogue not for the benefit of the Audience
Abrubt choppy video editing a various points
Abrupt music editing.

Plus points

some stunning cinematography
some good use of music
Mean and gritty / raw and believeanle
2nd half is much better

5/10

I would be interested in doing something with this film because I feel it has unlocked potential. Send me a PM if you are interested in it and wish to share some ideas. Would be interested in a preservation of the other international cut. But my ideas have definitely become broader.

Some further information I have garnered is there is a missing scene regarding Leaving the note for the other truck to find. Which featured in a one release.

There is a sub-plot missing that Nilo the Hit man is ill perhaps malaria.(unconfirmed)

There should be a shot where the truck is shown through the view of a telescopic sight before the trucks wheel get’s blown out.

Movie Script
https://issuu.com/lafamiliafilm/docs/sorcerer__8-1-1975_

Right, I know very little about this film. I am from the UK and we have never had a proper release of this film in the UK apart from the re-cut version which was made for most of the rest of the world upon theatrical release.

The release of the new Blu-ray supervised by Friedkin is apparently very good. But apparently it’s not without it’s faults.

One particular gripe is the subtitles not being literal translations of what is actually being said or spoken. And the subtitles are also not the original subtitles font that were used at the time of the films creation.

The French blu-ray version is a slightly better bitrate but has no English subtitles. The US release has Subtitles burned in and re-cap that the translation is not literally correct in a few instances.

With that said the theatrical re-cut version made for outside the US is unavailable on home video and although it has some poor editing. It includes 16 minutes of extra footage not to be found in the US theatrical release amongst some further plot points. Apparently there is also some improved music cues also.

This was shown on a channel in Germany called “Das Vierte” in February 2008.

http://www.movie-censorship.com/report.php?ID=4978

Now I have never seen the film before. But it’s nice to find a film that peaks my interest.

If someone interested could obtain the European cut for a preservation as It seems that it is targeted for being erased from history. It’s hard to find anything out about it. And I do not particularly trust everything I read on movie-censorship as they always ignore the audio which is a huge part of any film.

Many people also claim to prefer the re-cut over Friedkin’s official version, due to a slow and stagnant first hour until the plot get’s underway proper.

There is also Friedkin’s complaint about the aspect ratio of the film. He himself personally said his preference was the Pan and Scan version now he calls it an abomination because you can get 16:9 TV’s so the original framing on the old DVD which also somehow managed to be released alongside the Blu-ray and got recalled.

Anyway I hope this generates some interesting discussion with a hope to saving whatever the European cut might have to offer.

I would imagine that “Sorcerer” the original cut has never been submitted to the BBFC for a age rating and that the Ludicrous PG rating would be chewed up and spat out.

http://www.melonfarmers.co.uk/hitsw.htm

It would only cost £981.31 inc VAT to submit the film for classification. Why so tight?

A bit more information regarding the court case. CIC (Cinema International Corporation) Held the international rights to the film but they went through numerous take over bids. Friedkin never had final cut outside the US and French Markets. CIC re-cut the film for the international market but since their takeover this left the ownership rights hanging in Limbo. This is when Friedkin sued for who owned the film and asked for detailed information on how much the film actually grossed financially on international market that he had no profits from.

Viacom / Paramount would seem to be the Legal Owners of the European / international Theatrical Version. Weird that they really could not decide who owned the film or perhaps Universal has rights to the European release. God only knows what a mess. Who owns the other cut?

I am also reading reports of an added gunshot totally and tonally out of place ruining the ending of the film. Friedkin claims it’s a diesel engine back firing. It was never in the original film.

also this.

Did anyone else notice that they cut the sound altogether for a split second, when the Amidou character fell between the slats on the bridge and into the water? It didn’t happen on the DVD, but I thought it was really effective to be honest.

Mod Edit on 31.12.20…

see djsmokingjam’s post here

see El Barto’s post here

or both posts on Page 3 of this thread - for information on the two separate project releases.

It’s probably the most mainstream massively popular movies it’s happened to. It is important.

There is a lot of important films that this has happened to for different reasons.

I am not saying It’s a good thing. But I am saying that Star Wars is not the only film to have been given this sort of treatment.

It does not make it right but these things unfortunately happen for various reasons to films. But It never really needed to happen to Star Wars which I think is the sad part about it.

It’s only ten years since you saw the theatrical version officially released there are worse cases where it’s happened for longer certain versions of films being either lost or denied or even acknowleged.

That does not make it right but it’s not the end of the world.

Yes but now the Landscape is different.

Lucusfilm are not trying to push their digital graphics technologies. They if anything are investing in alternate tech like AR and VR tech. Their business really has nothing to do with a film made in 1977 anymore. It’s Evolved way beyond 1977.

It’s time to show some more humble roots.

The Special Edition is just another Brick in wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U

“The ideas of conformity in revolution inherent in the song are exemplified to a large extent in the accompanying film footage. Although the children in the second verse sing lyrics of personal rebellion, their unified singing coupled with their symmetrical seating in the film are as eeriely structured as when they march down the hall in lockstep rhythm. Despite their rebellious intentions, they have become just as homogeneous as when they were school clones. Furthermore, like the dual nature of the hammers, what begins as a productive revolution (the regaining of individuality) turns into destructive violence as the children destroy their school and create a funeral pyre for their teacher with the instruments of their past educational repression.”