Ronster

From Making Star Wars. I think he makes some fair points.

While I am speculating about reshoots, alternate cuts, and what might have been, I might as go all the way and talk about some story flaws that I saw in the film and changes I would have liked to seen made to the film

Problem #1: Galen’s Message

Galen recorded a fairly long holographic message that talked about a flaw he placed in the Death Star that was smuggled out by Bodhi. Galen could have saved a lot of lives, Rebellion material, and his daughter’s life by simply explaining the flaw and how to exploit it in the hologram. This is the biggest problem in the film’s story. He may not have been able to include a schematic, but should have been able to explain in enough detail to at least match a wire frame diagram and allow the Rebels to follow a trench to a thermal exhaust port.

Problem #2: Rebel Communications

How is it possible that Raddus’s flagship the Profundity was the only ship to receive the broadcast of the Death Star plans? Wouldn’t he have ordered all Rebel ships to attempt to receive any message from the surface? Clearly they did this to make the Vader chase, plan relay, and Tantive IV escape make sense. But if you stop and think about it, there is little reason more than one copy of the plans shouldn’t be in Rebel hands. The only way a single copy of the plans makes sense is if it a physical copy smuggled off planet not a broadcast.

Problem #3: The Senators’ Plan

The Rebel senators’ plan seems to be two-fold. They need to capture Galen Erso so that they can learn how to stop the superweapon. But they also plan to have him testify before the Senate to take down Palpatine. The former makes sense; the latter is crazy. Even during the Old Republic the Senate was neutered in power, and during the Empire even more so until the Senate was dissolved. To think they could use Erso as a witness against Palpatine and that Palpatine would allow that to threaten his power is ludicrous. The fact that one of the highest ranking Rebel officers, Alliance Intelligence General Draven, is actively working to undermine both of these plans is also something that isn’t really addressed in the film. Is he freelancing or is Mon Mothma winking and nodding him to give Cassian the assassination order?

Problem #4: Stardust

Galen’s nickname for his daughter is Stardust; it is cute and something that the use of it again in his death scene helps humanize the character. My problem is that I don’t buy that the Empire would change the Death Star’s design plans to codename “Stardust.” Galen was a Kyber crystal and energy researcher. Even if as the film states he kept himself important to the Death Star development, he didn’t and wouldn’t have designed a large portion of the station. I can see if the superlaser had a separate file and code name that it could be called “Stardust,” but the idea that the entire project would be renamed for Galen’s daughter is beyond far-fetched.

There are other smaller issues you could pick at if you really wanted to: Why does the Empire install a fast-pass code to ships to get through the shield gate when ships are stolen like every other day in Star Wars? Why do the Rebels have better data storage tech than the Empire? Why does it take Imperials so long to scramble defensive craft and where were the turbolaser barrages when the Rebels attack?

There are two major structural changes that I think would have made for a better and more powerful film.

Change #1: Expansion of Saw and Elimination of Bodhi

We needed two scenes in this film to build the Saw and Jyn relationship more, show how extreme Saw was, and show just how much of a bad-ass Jyn is. Scene one should be an early training/mission scene and scene two should have been the scene were Saw abandons Jyn on a mission.

To make room for these additions you need to excise Bodhi from a significant role in the film. Bodhi serves as a messenger that gets the plot rolling, but he is easily replaceable by a holo-transmission as Mon Mothma explains in the Japanese trailer: “We have intercepted a coded Imperial transmission. It indicates that a major weapons test is imminent. We need to know how to destroy it.”

Rebels can discover Galen’s involvement in the message and project and then approach Jyn, who subsequently recruits Saw, who could have maintained secret contact with Galen or found out where Galen is. This makes current-day Saw more relevant to the plot and instead of allowing himself to die on Jedha he could go with the crew and be the one that later stays behind on the shuttle on Scarif because of his physical limitations. You could replace Saw in almost all of Bodhi’s scenes in the film and I think you make room for a tighter story with richer characterization.

Change #2: Jyn’s Death and Vader’s Slaughter

As awesome as Vader’s hallway slaughter is, it is entirely nameless Rebel troopers who we have no emotional attachment to. The emotions of this scene would have been amplified immeasurably if he was pursuing a character from the main cast who was accompanied by Rebel fleet troopers.

Jyn and Cassian dying in each other’s arms on the beach as the Death Star’s shockwave hits them has a certain poetry to it. But it is so impersonal.

Jyn and probably Cassian should have been killed by Vader, either as they raced to transmit the data or in an alternate take on the ending as they physically escapes the planet to the Profundity, only to have the ship disabled and boarded by Vader and to have them chased through the halls , Cassian dies trying to buy Jyn time and then Jyn dies after handing off the plans to another Rebel trooper as Vader cuts her down.

So when Vader says “there’ll be no one to stop us this time” in A New Hope, he is referring back to Cassian and Jyn.

In the end, flaws and my personal story preferences aside I really enjoyed Rogue One and I have a feeling it will be a Star Wars film that I revisit very often in the years to come.

ZkinandBonez said:

And as for the main characters abandoning Saw’s men to die. I noticed while watching the film that all of his men had disappeared to somewhere before K-2SO showed up with the U-Wing.

I was also paying extra close attention to Vader’s speech during his first appearance this time around. I don’t really have too much to add, other than that I personally can’t hear anything wrong with it other than that James Earl Jones doesn’t quite have that extra punch in his voice anymore (which is to be expected at his age). But I honestly can’t find the big flaws in his dialogue or the incorrect voice modulation that some people are talking about. I honestly couldn’t hear it. I’m not doubting that it is ever so slightly different, after all imitating analogue sound editing form the 70’s can’t be too easy, but I fail to hear anything overly wrong with it.
(PS. Most of the redness of his eyes are reflections from the red lights in his lair, not from the eyes themselves.)

I also agree that there wasn’t really much to suggest to Vader that the rebel at the end of the hallway had the DS plans. Vader’s only goal was to get into the ship before it escaped.

Just FYI you can see the Partisans group around some X-wing’s briefly (with the black & white paint job) during the Death Star firing at the city you do not however see them leave and you don’t unfortunately see them show up on Scarif. Those scenes were cut.

Handman said:

Lord Haseo said:

People have been wanting to see Vader kill Rebels with his own hands for decades. If anything Gareth knew exactly what most people wanted.

This is exactly why it felt like a fan film to me. It’s not something Vader would have done in the original films, it’s what the fans wanted him to do. It’s the same reasoning we had CGI Yoda bounce around in Attack of the Clones.

Nobody ever wanted to see Yoda doing somersaults with a light saber did they?

I certainly don’t recall anyone ever complaining about Yoda ad infinitum.

You can’t say the same for Vader unfortunately. That walk through the Hoth Base really kind of started it all.

MalàStrana said:

Tobar said:

ROTS literally has him slaughtering children but a hallway of soldiers is a step too far?

Oh yeah I forgot about that ! But we don’t see him doing that, and he’s the main character of the movie, not a random dude killing random extras. But I don’t like it either. If he really wanted the plans he could have got them with the Force. The scene is totally dumb.

I think you are missing the point that it was not really about killing Extra’s but Vader was trying to get the plans back. There was a group of soldiers shooting guns in between the plan’s and Vader.

What would you do? I think you would be dead and riddled with laser beams.

Vader very nearly got the plan’s back. Just because you could not come anywhere close to performing such a task.

😃

Also making no bones about it I’d be dead If I tried to do that too.

New Featurette Rogue One Locations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzY8Mi4G04g

It Show’s more scenes of The Journey of the Pilgrims to Jedha City. Looks Amazing!

Still Promoting Deleted scenes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtAjvIIkB8I

Interesting real time motion capture

digitalfreaknyc said:

JawsTDS said:

My main question, after finally seeing the film twice is: did anyone catch a “Wilhelm scream” hidden in the sound mix?

Someone said it was when Jyn grabbed the troopers gun and he fell off the platform. I’ve seen it 3 times and never heard it.

On my second viewing I don’t think that’s the wilheim scream there now. As it did sound different. But it might have been snuck in when Donnie Yen kicks the Stormtrooper that is lying on the ground in the face to knock him out. You will have to listen out for it!

I have the Concept art book and it eludes to a different Version of the U-wing going to get Galen on Eadu. The U-wing has a green Laser distance sensor to avoid the cliffs and does not crash but lands stealthily and safely. The idea came from Gareth visiting area 51 and some sort of car spooking them. They thought it was a prankster as this car had some kind of green laser and was scanning and acting weird. But ultimately the idea was the U-wing would land in stealthy fashion and not crash in the original cut because of the green lasers scanning the cliffs.

Vader on Mustafa was always planned it was not added in Re-Shoot and was in the original cut of the film and an extended sequence. It might have been changed? but it was always meant to go to Mustafa and Vaders castle. Edwards eluded to how you shoot Vader and could have been making a poke about re-shoots because he explicitly said that “the camera has to be above Vaders Head” where as the camera was not in a lot of scenes so he’s pointing out the flaw perhaps.

The Happy Ending was Never shot.

The Tie Fighter rising up while Jyn is on the gantry is definitely not a marketing shot. It’s in the novel apparently so it was planned like that at one point. Krennic in front of the screen and stormtroopers in the water are Marketing shots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg

If you look at the trailer at 1.00 you can see that not only Jyn and Cassian are leaving for Jedha but x-wing pilots also are gearing up. So that would follow on to those fighters being marched through the streets in Jedha city were shot down they were from Yavin base. So there was a some sort of mission or attack launched from Yavin that obviously fails. This would include the female pilot Zal Diines probably biting the dust. The same actors running out of Yavin Base are the ones being marched through the streets.

Everybody (News Ariticles) keeps focusing on the ending of the film being altered which it was but not as significantly as the start of the film.

THE START OF THE FILM WAS THE MAJOR RE-SHOOT

timdiggerm said:

Jedha

• The Empire was going to be holding Rebel prisoners on Jedha, as shown by captured pilots.

Please alter to Attack launched from Yavin and failed + Jyn and Cassian arrested but saved by Chirrut & Baze.

It could have potentially been an attack on a mining facility? as there is concept art for the mining facilities and that would put them miles away from Jedha city and the need to go with the Pilgrims? Or Jyn and Cassian had a different objective to the Strike Force? But they never left on their own for Jedha in the original cut.

^ This gives away the opening of the original cut. Krennic goes to get Galen >>>> then Geonosis massacre (Saw and his rebels are Injured failing to stop the Extermination) OPENING TITLES>>>> Death Star moves to Scariff.Dish is fitted Galen send out a transmission to the Rebels. Rebels decide to go on a mission to try to halt the mining of the Kyber crystals and fail. Pretty much Resume the rest of the film with differences.

Or something like that or very similar.

Or Geonosis Massacre then Krennic goes to get Galen.

You can’t do this without speculating and trying to join the dot’s.

You have to think of the story and how it fit’s.

Concept art can be very misleading but it also can be an indicator too.

The most important line is Jyn saying “Every day we grow weaker while they grow stronger” Said by Jyn in Saw’s base “This is our chance… To make a real difference”

This clearly put’s her as a soldier fighting as a Rebel and not a petty criminal. She is in the Fight.

It’s possible Jyn Hesitates shooting the K2-SO look alike and that get’s them captured just saying it’s wild guess how they handled the inserts.

from this site.

http://www.provideocoalition.com/art-of-the-cut-rogue-one/

“My first editor’s assembly was getting close to three hours, but that was a very baggy, loose cut that I did just so I could show Gareth every possible thing we had. It didn’t take us much effort at all to get it down to about two hours twenty for the director’s cut.”

In the trailer it is like the Poster they had to run to a separate communications building (that dish tower) through the AT-AT’s

The Tentacle Monster may have read Jyn’s Mind rather than Bodhi Rooks in the original cut so as to extract memories from her past about what Galen was working on.

http://www.slashfilm.com/early-rogue-one-scripts/

Cassian Arrested

Jyn & Cassian Arrested

Baze free’s both Cassian and Jyn

So a total re-shoot after the tank battle involving Jyn and Cassian being captured but set free by Chirrut and Baze no K2-SO or silly gags probably. K2-SO stammering about where I am taking them. This would have been much better. K2-SO has already gone back to the ship possibly or never left the ship.

K2-SO gag “Did you know that was’nt me?” is an Insert also.

It’s also worth noting Jyn walking around with her hood on is from the original cut.

timdiggerm said:

Ronster said:

Wobani and Ring of Kafene are Gilroys not in the Visual Dictionary and not covered in the slightest. Although The Ring of Kafene is covered in the art book and labelled as Planet X. So Planet X may have been originally in the script but not shot until much later and then given it’s Ring of Kafene trading post label as they had no name for it.

I find this part of Ronster’s argument compelling - it points to them being very last minute additions. Given how much we (don’t) see of them, seems possible.

The sequence with the actual Tank in Jedha City was always part of the original film. But I think the events leading up to this are quite different or expanded upon. quite a bit of deleted material in Jedha City. Chirrut & Baze were always in the Original cut and that does not seem to have changed either, unless there was a scene with them earlier.

If you check the preview for the novel here…

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7Ma_DAAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_atb#v=onepage&q&f=false

It eludes to some minor scene extensions before Krennic Arrives on Lah’Mu.

Jyn is digging and playing out side ruining the crops on the farm.
Jyn drops her toy before running back home. (Death Troopers find it)
Galen set’s about destroying some of his scientific research (it could be Galen that starts the fire and not the Death Troopers on the farm)
Death Troopers possibly Ransacking the Farmhouse
Extra Dialogue between Galen and Krennic

https://vimeo.com/177892782

This original trailer leaks more original cut scenes.
The Empiral Cargo craft landing in Jedha (Bodhi Rook?)
“Every day we grow weaker while they grow stronger” Said by Jyn in Saw’s base "This is our chance… To make a real difference"
Shot of Star Destroyer pit officers

In another Trailer Jyn is in Saw’s base saying “The Empire is building a weapon capable of destroying a whole planet”

This might be in the final version can’t recall off the top of my head.

Bodhi Rook probably flew them off of Jedha as it was being blown up in the Imperial Cargo ship.(There is cocept art for the escape in the cargo shuttle) This explains why they run back to it on Eadu, Bodhi has already managed to commandeer a cargo ship. So the U-wing flying and crashing on Eaudu was added… They got there in the cargo ship not the U-wing. The U-wing got shot down on Jedha more than likely and the effects got re-purposed as there is concept art for a crashed U-wing on Jedha. Possibly shot down by the Empire Saw’s Partisans save the crew.

doubleofive said:

Ronster said:

Triangle Face a bounty hunter was tacking Dr Evanzen and Walrus Man before Jyn Bumps in to them…

This probably allows the two criminals to escape as Triangle face is caught the other side of the Hover Tank and has to wait then the battle kicks off allowing Dr Evanzan and walrus face to evade capture.

He may have been going to shoot just as Jyn bumps in to them or does he bump in to Jyn to cause a diversion.

This is a thread where we try to figure out what was originally shot, not make things up. Where are you even getting this stuff?

Triangle face = Tam Posla

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Tam_Posla

Look at this info here

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/StarWarsJedha

There’s too much money on Jedha characters spent being in the background and it’s inconcieveable that is really the case.

A few of them would have had minor parts at the very least including the pilgrims and the Jedha camels.

The people without all their heads are called the “Decraniated”

There are also like alien Kyber Miner’s with Gas Masks they appear briefly in that scene where the Storm Troopers are carting off the Rebel pilots.

When there was two of them Edrio & Benthic

Wobani and Ring of Kafene are Gilroys not in the Visual Dictionary and not covered in the slightest. Although The Ring of Kafene is covered in the art book and labelled as Planet X. So Planet X may have been originally in the script but not shot until much later and then given it’s Ring of Kafene trading post label as they had no name for it.

Triangle Face a bounty hunter was tacking Dr Evanzen and Walrus Man before Jyn Bumps in to them…

This probably allows the two criminals to escape as Triangle face is caught the other side of the Hover Tank and has to wait then the battle kicks off allowing Dr Evanzan and walrus face to evade capture.

He may have been going to shoot just as Jyn bumps in to them or does he bump in to Jyn to cause a diversion.

I think it’s more of a theme than a sub-plot but the Death troopers are Cyborgs that is 100%

Saw Gerrera is half machine and has iron Lungs.

Benthic / Edrio (two tubes) again he is heavily modified Vader chest box to boot.

Moroff has a Metal plate over his mouth again cybernetic modification.

There is a guy without a head as the tank rolls in Jedha

There is a woman with a hardrive stuck in her head.

I am not making it up.

Notice the hardcore Partisans all have stuff over their mouths. That is from Geonosis battle with the insectocide probably.

ZkinandBonez said:

Well the new movies are with the EU in mind so I’m pretty sure it was never intended to be an actual sub-plot.

(For all we know the story group may have added it all once it was decided to give Dr. Evazan a cameo.)

There was a bounty hunter (triangle face) tracking Dr.Evanzan and Walrus what ever his name is. So I think although it feels like Fan service without any real reason it’s likely that Jyn bumps in to him just as triangle face is going to shoot them then the tank battle happens so they get away. as Triangle face is behind the tank as it rolls past and cut off from pursuing.

So it’s cut down quite a bit, and does not really flesh out Triangle Face tracking the 2 criminals which would come prior to Jyn bumping into him.

It’s a guess but it’s very likely more to that sequence.

ben_danger said:

I never realised that was a subplot! Maybe one ingredient too many if it were there.

I think it was probably fairly subtle but it would have been a theme of Technology vs Religion in a warzone on Jedha.

Or at least that is what it seems like.

Once you leave Jedha that theme would only carry over with Vader from that point I guess.

Saw would be the paranoid conflicted half cyborg. But other abominations on the streets who were in the wrong place at the wrong time but were saved with surgery.

Are you glad Rogue one did not feature a prominent sub-plot about Cyborgs? Or experimental Cyborg Surgery?

This is a serious question as I think this was a reason for the some of the Jedha plot being altered or being changed. But It’s tricky to work this stuff out.

It would also be to do with Saw’s transformation and that the Death Troopers are Cyborgs (Advanced ones mind) but also that Vader was also fitted that mold too. But there were people who were being cyborgified on Jedha during the conflict there.

Remember the Alien without a head.

There is a woman also on a food stool that would have had like a Hardrive stuck above her nose without a forehead.

Different suit of Saw younger Jyn

Saw’s Line “What will you become?” is in reference to people being modified by experimental surgery after war wounds… This may have been to do with the 2 criminals who had death warrants in 12 systems.

Basically this sub-plot was probably to feature fairly prominently with triangle face it would seem. Bounty Hunter & sort of a detective.

I have no idea who is talking to but I think it has to do with the experimental and highly illegal surgery. Cybernetic surgery. Ironically he has the process done to him post Geonosis.

The whole on Life Support part is missing as even though he had no legs and robot legs he still could not have run away from Jedha as he could not leave the machine in his base that was keeping him alive.

There are so many of these make up effects created that it’s totally unplausable that so much time would be spent on something that never got mentioned so it was part of the plot originally.

The Death Troopers are of the same ilk and are also cyborgs. They are Dead but alive by Cybernetics.

So if Jyn was Broken out of Captivity on Jedha there are 2 questions do the rebellion break her out or was she broken out by the Partisans?

In the scene in one of the trailers she is clearly meeting K2-SO for the first time in Jedha city. or was it another Imperial enforcement droid and not K2-SO…

It also raises the question of when they went to Yavin? After the Death Star fires or before the Death Star fires and back to Jedha again?

It’s very difficult to know exactly how it changed at this time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2N0Mn4i4Dw

squid bloke walking in Jeha at 0.55.

Basically WOBANI is made up from scenes on Jedha I am positive about that.

Triangle Face was some sort of Law enforcement officer, he was after Ponda Babba and Dr Evanzan so if Jyn was up to bad stuff he may have caught her? I can not confirm that but it would make sort of sense.

Wobani feels to me like the obvious insert. This could have happened on Jedha as we never really see outside the Transport (Juggernaught).

The prison cell also appears to be very minimal. There is footage of that squid like creature she shares a cell with jumping along the Jedha street so I think Wobani was Jedha originally but it was made in to another planet.

Jyn was being sent to work on the Kyber Crystal mines as that was a plot point.

Ring of Kafene is probably the opening of the original film.

Triangle Face may have featured at the opening on Jedha he might have also put Jyn behind bars.

I believe the mission to Eaudu (Planet) is the least changed part of the film. I think it’s practically left intact from original cut.

When the Death Star Shoots at Jedha the partisans run and you can see them around some x-wings with the black and white paint job. This means that those crashed black and white x-wings were probably not only meant to feature in some kind of strike on Jedha’s imperial occupation forces and lose but also possibly on Scariff. Because that would put Moroff on Scariff so in the original version the partisans escaped and became part of Jyn’s heist on Scarif or showed up to help. It explains the captured pilots being marched through the streets. When one Soldier Jumps out of a U-Wing he also scream “FOR JEDHA!!!”

Jyn and Cassian were to walk with Pilgrims to the City and the Jedha Camels were in tow. (This could have been old version or reshoots)

Extended Vader exit of BACTA TANK Vanee the servent get’s Vader’s cloak and gloves. His helmet and robot limbs are fitted automatically by a machine.

Krennic had his gun and was shooting at people on the beach so there was definitely a shoot out between Krennic and the Rebels along with the Death Troopers on the beaches.

Large talk / Speech in the Hanger on Yavin IV with Dodonna and Bail Organa and a huge crowd of Rebel’s.

Darth Vader was aboard the Death Star in the original cut.

I am at one with Rogue One and Rogue One is with me
I am at one with Rogue One and Rogue One is with me
I am at one with Rogue One and Rogue One is with me

😃

Just in from a French Film maker Xavier Gens

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1164755/

Apparently the earlier version of Rogue One featured Saw vs Vader. It explained how he lost his legs on Geonosis and was crushed by something and trapped whilst his lungs were also consumed by this insectocide the empire used to wipe out the Geonosis Insect type creatures.

Vader chopped his legs off.

This story comes from a friend of the film maker because of French Dubbing work and someone he knew has seen the footage.

I can actually believe this back story to be true. The scene with his Medical droid and on Life Support are clearly missing so this Flashback is missing scene. (10 Years before Rogue One)

So now all we are need to know how Chirrut became Blind but can see the Crystals.