Heavy Compression?
Seriously I like the film but it does not mean I can’t spot an insert when I see one. Especially one that contrdicts a lot of what we saw come before it. I Like Darth Vader Slasher Maniac Scene but… It was not part of the original ending.
That is all I am saying. It does not mean I hate it 😃
So should they have had 5 credit cards?
Yeah, Bail is going to send Leia to Tatooine to find Obi-Wan. That much we know from what he says, and we know Artoo and Threepio are stationed on the Tantive IV from Revenge of the Sith. They probably think they’re headed to Tatooine, so when everything is suddenly redirected to Scarif because Jyn and Cassian went rogue, Threepio expresses his disdain for being left out of the loop.
I assume Leia’s ship was docked with the Profundity in orbit above Yavin IV considering we see Admiral Raddus at the Rebel meeting to discuss attacking Scarif, after which he leaves in a huff, which is then when Bail goes to give Leia her mission. When Raddus hears about Rogue One’s attack on Scarif and decides to go fight, she’s kinda trapped and along for the ride in his ship, not knowing she’d end up with the plans.
Once she gets them and escapes, she continues the mission Bail gave her to find Obi-Wan, but this time with more urgency since she now has the plans. And of course it’s all thrown for a loop when Vader catches up with her and she’s captured, but it all works out for the Rebels in the end.
No you are making stuff up. is that you “Gilroy?”
I’m of the mind Artoo has the plans before the Tantive is captured. They certainly can’t be on the “ATM card” Leia is putting in him. I think all she’s doing at that point is recording the message and giving Artoo his marching orders.
Also keep in mind when they get to Yavin, they hook up Artoo to a large unit to do essentially a data dump. That looks like something that would take a little time to do.
Very good point and something I never thought about size of Data file. I think that the Plot was always Stolen Data Tapes and the Several Transmissions that were beamed aboard the Tantive IV.
Another contradiction is that the Size of the Death Star Plans were an issue in the original cut and having to beam them out. Come the Insert of the Darth Vader Slasher scene the Size of the File is no longer an issue and it can go from Data Tape to Simm Card. Another Contradiction to the Narrative there also.
The Problem is not so Much the scene of Vader on the Profundity.
It’s more the fact that it was made very clear Leia was going to Tattooine to get Obi-Wan, and C3-P0 and R2-D2 exclaim probably before they board the Tantive IV parked outside the Massassi temple “The’re going to Scariff”
That is the point of the obvious re-tooling and leaving plot remnants of the alternate original ending and the new re-jigged ending.
It’s a little bit at odds with it’self never mind it being at odds with the Original Star Wars made in 1977.
It’s ok but it could have been done a bit better. It’s contradicting itself though.
Now go and fetch me one of those skyhooks 😃
Is there any wonder that C3-P0 and R2-D2 feel shoehorned in considering their Dialogue and probably their Cameo was cut to shreds to include them but so as to not contradict the ending in a “Massive way” although they left Bail and Mon Mothma in there which do pretty much the same thing contradict the Ending in a “Massive Way”.
Happy New Year folks!!!
It’s pretty obvious that the ending was retooled.
The short scene of R2-D2 and C3-PO on Yavin saying “the’re going to Scariff” Obviously the droids were not going to Scariff they were going to Tattooine. As was clearly explained earlier by Bail Organa when he talks to Mon Mothma.
“Skyhook come in Skyhook!”
That whole Darth Vader Slasher Sequence was an insert and the Tantive IV was combined with Raddus ship for more dramatic impact.
I am guessing but it’s more likely that a transmission was Beamed from Raddus ship or there is concept art for a half moon ship that would have probably beamed the transmission on. Basically you are watching a re-jigged ending but the remnants of the alternate (original) ending were still left in the film so far as C3-P0 and R2-D2 Mon Mothma and Bail Organa and him sending Leia to get Obi-wan.
This ending totally contradicts these earlier scenes before the Vader slashing his way through the corridor.
The Brutal Vader scene with Saw (Flashback) was cut and replaced with Brutal Vader on the Tantive.
I’ll be interested in seeing what’s there when we actually dig up concrete stuff, but the speculation is a bit much for me.
There is very little speculation going on.
The U-wing with the green Laser Grid stealth mission is talked about in the Concept art of Rogue One The story board has it landing near a herd of some sort of Oxen or cows running away as the ship lands.This is from Gareth Edwards.
Galen Under the broken Land speeder is in the Concept art book story boarded and the Visual Guide shows the full finished prop
The Shots of Jyn and Cassian being arrested by Storm troopers is in the trailers and a featurette
We know that Galens death scene was altered and that “Stardust” was put in also this image below should tell you that something was “Changed” about the sequence.
There is Concept Art for the Partisans x-wings fleeing Jedha and it’s also confirmed as canon that some of them escape. I imagine it was more a plot point to increase tension as a perhaps one or 2 of them being destroyed as the U-wing escapes. The art showed 4 of them. You can see the black x-wings in the film if only briefly. Moroff is seen on Scariff in a featurette that is in the Maldives not on a studio set.
There is very little wild speculation going on… Guess the re-shoot well that is more tricky unless Gareth tells us.
Plenty of Deleted scenes which could go in any version. Not seeing many alternatives at least yet.
Yes Some are Animatronics and CGI combined (Hybrid)
Bor Gullet was both Practical and CGI (as Neal Scanlon had to make a phyical prop possibly scanned and animated or Hybrid)
Raddus is Animatronic but also has CGI done on him. He is definitely CGI’ed at the end but it seems he was not on Yavin Base
K2S0 is probably a physical prop digitized but animated via mocap
That is my take on it.
No it’s not Hyperbole. The remnants of the other cut are in the books and games and trailers which have been released or referencing extensive work that was created for this other cut.
Even if Lucusfilm wanted to sweep it under the rug there really is not much point now as there is so many things people can see that did not end up in the film it would be more ludicrous to deny that it ever existed as it’s in print, video footage and Games.
I don’t think Lucusfilm are really being tight lipped about any of it. They are not releasing any real solid details of it exactly apart from a few bit’s here and there.
I think it is very interesting and fun to find things. And really I don’t think we can go much further until we get some solid facts.
Bringing all the information together is fun and having a guess at the re-shoots is more fun 😃
I should add I like the film a lot but I also can’t help wondering if I would like the other cut more or less than the version we saw in the cinema.
It’s different and that is what makes it so compelling.
A small extension
One version of The Lahmu Prologue had Galen Erso stripping parts off his Land speeder outside (As per Story Board images) this is possibly an alternative to watching Jyn play out the Window. The Land speeder Prop was created as a static prop not a vehicle. It was not a working vehicle.
This would be from the original shoot. His introduction would have been his leg’s under the Speeder before he emerges out from underneath. That would be our original introduction to him.
You were complaining about the cutting pertaining to Galen’s death scene. you can probably blame “Stardust” for that. That would be an insert no need to go to Iceland for that scene on the landing platform. Because it’s a movie set.
Personally I can not remember it. But I will look out for it next time I watch it.
I think it’s not all bad though but I do definitely feel cheated out of some of those great shot’s in the trailers being deleted and replaced by a lesser skilled visually inferior treatment in some respects.
There is no way this can be swept under the rug ever.
100% Edwards in these trailers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frdj1zb9sMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg
I think sequences like this there is a bit more wobble and I don’t think this is re-shoot material either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8Udcffrexw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQLynG8Z5M0
All of the on location shoooting was done by Edwards so that is Iceland Wadi Rum Jordan and Maldives.
Although we have pretty much covered all the material that we are aware of or rumoured to exist.
I think we need to focus attention on precisely identifying material that was Re-shot by Gilroy.
These scenes I think are Gilroy’s retooling Reshoots.
Wobani prision break? (Perhaps resurrected from an edit bin by Gilroy not shot by him)
Jyn at Yavin Base not in shackles softer character (Not in any active rebellion service)
K2-SO showing up to save Jyn and Cassian in Jedha city. K2SO was to become their fake imprisoner rather than the Storm troopers actually holding Jyn and Cassian prisoner. Weakened the hard edge and furthermore made Chirrut and Baze rescue attempt less impactful as they were never really prisoners. Silly Gags not really funny. now Run’s off back to the ship.
Galens Hologram Message?
Flying to Eaudu Comic relief and the U-wing Calamity Crash Nobody notices. Rather than Stealth mission to an imperial facilty undetected with a more fearful what the hell are we getting in to serious edge.
Jyn’s Speech to the Rebel Council on Yavin Jyn fluffed up to becoming a sort of Leader even though they just killed her father. Her tone should have been “What are you doing?” “We had my father we were going to bring him back but you killed him”
From these that I have singled out you should notice Gilroy’s different style verses Gareth Edwards Style.
Obvious retooling pairing down at the end not so much re-shoot…
“Stardust” as Jyn’s nickname and the name of the Death star plans.
Darth Vader Slasher sequence (A stunt Darth Vader was Hired for re-shoots apparently)
Not all bad but problems were created in this part of the process even if they were to fix a “Problem” No on location shoots were performed in different countries by the look of it.
I think the strange thing about it is.
They played the film loose and had multiple choices of how it was going to play out and with various plot points. But come the final assembly even though they had all these multiple events readings and choices they still had to do more re-shoots on top of what they had and alter it quite significantly.
Kathleen Kennedy talked about Saw’s character stating “We really wanted to include his character more, but we have more plan’s for him in the future” I don’t understand what stopped them? if they wanted to do that why could they not do that? Unless it was him having his leg chopped off? and it would push it in to the realm of the R Rated.
There has to be a good reason for the re-shoots, but I am actually failing to see any glaringly significant reason (Apart from Jyn “I Rebel”), and that is the strangest part about it all.
3 hours Assembly cut >>>> 2 hours 20 minutes directors cut. (Not including Re-shoots) >>> 2 hours 13 minutes Final Cut including re-shoots
Change for the sake of Change. Too Many cooks?
Perhaps Gareth Edwards wanted a Opening Crawl so bad he had to be refused Final cut? Even though he was still consulted and it seems everyone is very happy with Gareth Edwards regardless.
Someone suggested you could make a sort of Adventure game film (like those old choose your own adventure books like Fighting Fantasy).
I think with something like studying a film and trying to figure out what was cut, changed and so on, there are a number of factors to consider and these are as follows.
Simply deleted scenes and expanded plot points that fit the narrative of any version of the film that are self contained.
Alternate Versions that Change the Narrative or the tone and follow on from prior events but have no impact on future events. (Stub)
Completely different Story points that only fit a select narrative (Branching or if you like a Y-Split it may also be a branch point that will rejoin the main narrative once again and loop back in)
Re-Configuration. Altering times and places and order of events
I think the problem is there is so much stuff and information left floating about that contradicts what is in the film, that tells us about the other cut. It’s a bit of a mess in a way so there can be no denying of the other cut, it’s in every piece of ancillary material released to tie in with the film that was not the actual film we went to see although it is in spirit.
In the Ultimate Visual Guide a different version of the of Jyn’s Speech is eluded to.
Jyn - “I have never had the Luxury of Political opinions” It’s quite different to Run, Hide, Scatter your forces by the sounds of it. But it sounds pretty self contained some members of the Alliance were always going to show up obviously and fight on Scariff.
Also ATM Machine the Rogue One VR game has the U-Wing go to Wobani (Which is actually the planet Lah’Mu) to get Jyn.
Star Wars Battlefront Scariff features the Rebels on Scariff having to escape to a ship with the physical death star plans
I mean it’s really quite bad I feel a bit sorry for those software development teams or Game designers. It’s all nothing like the film.
Eadu was filmed in Iceland
Lah’Mu was filmed in Iceland
And the Ring of Kafene trading post is in an asteroid belt of which Lah’mu has an asteroid belt.
So you could possibly group those 3 places together as the same place and it could have all been the planet Eadu at one time. Especially if Galen had reservations about leaving his home after Krennics men shot his wife (from the Novel). He may have said “I am staying here otherwise you will have to kill me too”
Why do we only see Saw (Urgh) lifting the Hatch was there some sort of rescue? If Stormtroopers had not found young Jyn surely they did not just give up? Nobody left to guard the Erso Home? Galen had to have known Saw came to his daughters rescue otherwise he would not have sent the Pilot to Saw. He had to have known Saw saved Jyn to trust him at a later point.
Sadly I think what is missing from that prologue opening is that Galen burnt any research that he was studying and also by all accounts the novel delves in to a scene where Galen is at odds with Lyra just being killed before he goes on board Krennics shuttle.
Which is skimmed over in not a good way but apparently this stuff exists, So one can hope one day we will we see the full consequence of Galen Burning his research and his struggle with Lyra being killed.
I think it is important to not cut away these layers. But they did unfortunately.
But they never found his daughter and that message still stands I guess.
I have a few issues with the film but I am pretty forgiving… I do think the start is a bit wrong not in any major way but there is a few obvious pointers to how it went a bit wrong but I am by and large down with it.
Let’s just say I am letting it off the hook.
I am very curious what you make of it Ady?
I trust your opinion as a good one. I am interested in what you think about it? And I know it won’t be some slanderous bore.
But when you are ready… I really want to know what you think.
Another person who hated TFA also hates R1? yawn
Wake me up when something new happens.
Yeah I got to agree with this and seeing as he does not fully understand the point of Assassinating Galen Erson or why they went to get him even though I don’t mind peoples opinions. But it’s not needed. Why do we need 5 or 6 trawling posts to understate why someone likes the end but does not really like the film as a whole.
Like this guy drools over the start of the film being boring as he felt no investment yet his review of the start of the film is not boring too?
I think it’s at this point alderaan you need to ask yourself some questions not only do you not fully understand the film which other people pretty much have quite a firm grasp of yet you are also complaining of dragging and boredom and your review is pretty much that.
You are entitled to your opinion but does it really have to drone on and on and on your opinion? And when do YOU get to the point!
I think the scene on Eadu (Blue rainy planet) was actually one of the best parts of the film. To me at least I thought it was pretty solid the way it was staged.
The point of Cassian not killing Galen was that Galen was actually saying “Kill me” to Krennic but Krennic believed he was lying to protect someone on his team of scientists.
Then when Cassian see’s this execution he has second thoughts about killing Galen because he is the only scientist left. And the only one with any information.
The irony is that Galen get’s killed by a y-wing bomb. But yeah I think it could have been interesting if Galen had made it right to the end.
Galen was targeted for assignation because of what would he build next…
I think the line “we received an imperial encoded transmission” and “the message was sent by your father” are lies. If we trust cassian shooting that bloke on the ring of Kafene then those two lines work as deception of the truth that cassian was fed info then murdered the informant. It is a cover story for evil deeds
I also think Jyn is in shackles because they think she is possibly a traitor.
I feel this really explains the tone of those scenes.
The only evidence we have and nobody is saying there is any truth to it comes from a french film maker check Tim diggers post.
But the fact that many of Saws partisans feature breathing apparatus of some kind as well as saw’some iron lungs back this story up as something happened to this lot during the purge on genesis. I would go as far to say it has more to do with a failing death star project and lack of galens skills whilst also the major stall being somone destroyed a huge Kyber crystal on Route to the prototype death star to make this thing work. Or at least test it in some way. I think it ties up there is more evidence for than against. We don’t know if it is true. But it falls in to the category as did unkar plutt get his arms ripped of by chewie. We now know it was the truth. This seems equally interesting but also questionable.
The tie fighter rising up as jyn limps is in the novel apparently Tobar so it must have been planned that way at some point. It also has got Gareth edwards trademark all over it of putting people in front of big effects shots.
I do not have the novel though but I read that it is in the book of the film.
The limp though tells us something about a potential missing moment more.
Right I have some clarity on what was going on with these Rebel Pilots going to Jedha it’s not an attack and it’s not a diversion.
Seen in the IMAX trailer Dodonna and Bail talking and giving a briefing I think in an expanded version of the plot. The Rebel x-wing Pilots were to Land and inspect The defected Pilots deserted Transport (Very Dangerous!). Jyn and Cassian’s mission was to gather more intelligence From this point from another location a connection was made between finding out the identity of the pilot that had actually defected from the Empire was called Bodhi Rook this information was relayed to Jyn and Cassian by the x-wing pilots at the deserted transport. Also from intelligence via Cassian Bodhi Rooks sister was identified as living in Jedha city and the plan to go to Jedha City was then formed.
The x-wing pilots however whilst grounded get attacked and arrested at Bodhi Rooks deserted imperial transport.
Jyn and Cassian then set off for Jedha City with the Pilgrims and are in search of Bodhi Rooks Sister. So as to lead them to or find out the whereabouts of Bodhi Rook. Little do they know that Saw already has Bodhi Rook in his custody.
It’s very much something along these lines… It’s all about the mystery Pilot that has secret information. And finding out who he is and where he is. And the only link is his deserted transport on Jedha.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bodhi_Rook’s_sister
Don’t rule out this plot point simply being done over com’s chatter from the U-wing. We don’t need to see anything only that the pilots name was given over the Radio. We would have stayed with Jyn and Cassian.
Also if there was any doubt the Empire already had Bodhi Rooks sister in their custody. There was no chance of finding her at that point.
Debbie Reynolds just passed away it said.
It’s unbelieveable…
It’s all too much.