Ronster

Right this was the process I used on my first attempt. And I used Luma Key. (it will be a different process for blown highlights)

First off looking at the original source with crushed blacks the Empire Strikes Back Blu-Ray not sure if this is the best example as sometimes elements get moved around. anyway make 3 video tracks and put this on track 2.

Now we take the alternate source that has the shadow detail present this goes on track 1.

We lay this on top of the image that we want to combine but in order to line the 2 images up we need to first make the image with the shadow detail opaque. We Add a 2D-DVE to this Re-size and scale as needed and lay over the top so that if possible it matches exactly using the highlights as a guide and matching the geometry of the 2 images. (If I have a slightly different frame or something I apologize but for the purposes of explaining how to do this as I don’t have much time today due to other comittments). I sharpened the source with shadow detail as it was a lot more blurred than the source I was trying to blend.

Now once we have the 2 images matched we move the image or clip with the shadow detail on to track 3 keeping the geometry matches but now you must make the image or clip have 0% opacity so it is now solid.

We now go back to the image or clip that has shadow detail missing.

Here we apply a Luma Key to the image or clip. Generally for shadow detail you will have a high tolerance and little edge softness. Here was the result.

Now you have shadow detail the image will then need to be matched to the rest of your footage so contrast and color so on and cropping or masking around the affected area with no shadow detail.

If you want me to try this on ghostbusters or nightmare on elm street then it would be beneficial to show me the shots or comparison sources to restore shadow.

I won’t be touching Adywans edit but I think it’s useful for everyone to try to deal with this problem because it’s not unique to any film but a plethora of titles. And I need to try this technique on other sources.

I myself personally would hate to edit this version because I would just feel so bad even if I did it in secret or my own personal version no way hose.

I think Ady should move on and I should stop thinking about this film. Even if there are a few things and if ever I do an edit of this film I will never use this version god I would feel like such a thief even if Ady gave me permission which I doubt would happen… lol. I hope Ady can adopt a version approach perhaps at later point more like a continued improvement approach perhaps similar to de-specialized although I have to admit I never watched or downloaded them. they do look good though and I know I should check them out but i see certain things I know are not right and although I love the original films they try to recreate without any common sense fixes which is ok but not taking into account the plethora of why, who, what, where and when it’s not even about special effects or continuity errors but perhaps just trying to get to the bottom of it all with this film which is brilliant but also a bit curio compared to star wars.

I no way intend to be obnoxious that is very harsh because I love what Ady did I just want it to be always a bit better if possible and I think we all want that so don’t bring the hammer down on me. There is no complaints but I could list around 35 things I would love to do or try at least…one day but I would never steal from ady man no way.

I posted a thread about black crush and blown highlights I will be doing some experiments. I might use revisted as a source but it won’t be for anything other than benefit of the film and probably in stills not video.

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Techniques-and-ways-of-fixing-Black-Crush-or-Crushed-Blacks/id/56439

This is very much based on there is nothing to lose if there is nothing there…

Luma key is perhaps another option.

This is something that is interesting and I am surprised there is no topic or at least not one that I know about and this happens in a few films where shadow details are lost and crushed in to nothing.

I am curious of ways of attempting to fix this problem using various techniques.

Upon looking at Empire strikes back for a long time. I wondered about this and without actually doing any tests. I am assuming that 2 sources could be mixed either 50/50 or 75/25 and color matched to retain shadow detail.

But then I started to think about it differently again. all you want is the bottom end in this case or perhaps if you have the other end of the spectrum blown highlights you would want to only replace highlights from another source and mix. without altering the image in the bottom or middle range.

Now obviously we can match and blend 2 images 50/50 and 25/75 as whole images for instance, but after thinking about this some more I realized the middle of the image is generally the part that is good most of the time when looking at value.

So I want to talk about developing a technique that allows for not mixing an image as a whole in any percentage but mixing an image as either top end complete replacement but geometrically matched, or bottom end replacement but geometrically matched.

Basically my thoughts are on how to develop this technique lie within a few different areas.

Assuming what you want to replace is actually black or white and without any detail. would a bucket fill technique work to chroma key out the black crush or blown highlights? Splitting a clip to individual frames and simply bucket fill the lot with either red / green / blue screen and then keying out replacing the affected areas with the alternate source without crushed black or blown whites.

obviously this could be matted in but without having to get into complex roto-scoping in some instances even if a selected area is colored and then keyed out to reveal underneath it shadow detail from an alternate source or highlights that are not blown from another source.

once what is keyed in to reveal a geometrically matched source underneath either restoring highlights or shadow detail then if detail is also lost in this process then another layer is added of the original source you want to use but opaque to a percentage where detail is restored again? or masked in, and in such a way that it is geometrically common sense around the affected areas of either Black crush or Blown Highlights but this would be a simple mask without having to do precise rotoscope work.

Without testing this does anyone have any thoughts or has anyone ever attempted to restore these types of things before and what technique if you are willing to share did you use to restore detail?

This is all theory at the moment. But aside from simply masking in shadow detail I want to develop a technique that if there is any movie with either Blown Highlights or Crushed Blacks a simple resource that can fix it or tutorial or technique providing another source even if it is in lower quality can yield better results and restore either shadow detail or blown out whites.

TheProwler1981 said:

Wow that is very interesting to see. I can recommend website called Conan completist for fans.It has the most detailed information with very rare photos of some scenes that didnt make it into final film.

That is where the info came from about the syfy tv version which seems to resemble the nbc premiere cut.

well not really I am thinking about missing detail on those shots. It’s more about trying to have a much better version which we do now have already.

With that said I have never tried it myself I assume you need to blend 50/50 2 sources and color match or mask in or something. I don’t know how to do this but I assume that is how you would do that sort of repair. And possibly it being relatively simple task.

well Revisited is a very nice version so I just thought to point out a few shots that have a bit of missing detail from the Blu-ray. that was all. Sorry I used your pics. It was perhaps covering old ground but perhaps it was not worth mentioning?

I was thinking it would be fairly simple to blend in shadow detail from another source that was all. If there was any will to do this.

there is probably more but it would be nice to restore missing detail to a few shots as well as keeping any existing changes Ady made.

this one.

Restore detail to super star destroyer

Restore detail to interior of x-wing engines.

But I could not see many shots like this at all.

the other ones which are a bit like this are the interior falcon cockpit when they detatch from the stardestroyer has bad black crush in the Blu-ray but it did not look as bad in Revisited.

Luke in the corridor with blaster in cloud city also suffers a bit with detail loss when Lando first looks around and Leia later shouts it’s a trap. there is a couple of over dark shots here.

could detail be pulled in from another source on these if willing.

did you restore the shot of Davids eyes on the road but without the internal monologue then?

defeating the truck on the grade part…

whoops

SilverWook said:

Pretty sure AMC has run Conan recently. No idea what edited for tv version it was though.

ok I think this is the NBC 1984 premiere version that is around 20 minutes shorter would that air on AMC?

https://www.facebook.com/amc/photos/a.10150131046402087.289578.287560452086/10153427218997087/?type=3

if it aired at 6.30pm then it very well could have been the heavily censored version

It is not in that version sadly see below.

http://conancompletist.forumactif.com/t578-conan-s-alternate-tv-version-footage

syfy channel version has the alternate TV cut footage.

There is a rumor about the original premiere / or another TV version contains shots of the grappling hook being thrown to climb the tower of Set and Lions in the gardens around the tower. This relates to Max Von Sydows line “The Lions ate him…” When they bring Subotai in to the kings chamber. Weather or not Sandal Bergman actually introduces herself as Valeria also in this part… This was apparently in the HBO TV version premiere?..

I recently came across a clip of Conan the Barbarian that was broadcast a long time a go on television networks that was heavily censored but which also contains some unique footage. Perhaps there might be much more unique differences also as I have only seen a small clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH-EW44aBGU

1st off I would like to know if this version is still broadcast?

2nd if so can someone do a capture of it? Or does anybody have this version at all?

I Think Empire is a bit different because they are in a more remote or unpopulated part of the universe or perhaps the best way to describe it is not colonized. And that is the difference. Until they get to the outpost which is Bespin we start to see the signs of civilaztion or creeping back to civilation. The planets in Star Wars and Rotj apart from Dagobah planet or system whichever you prefer are all known and Chartered and colonized. Anyway it is a bit strange that a whole system is named after a single planet it’s not confusing but it would be like calling our Solar system Earth System. We all know the stars are the condition for life the planets themselves only a husk without a star to fuel life.

Anyway a few months ago i saw Ady’s youtube channel and he was interested in blue dwarf stars… was this a cut Idea to give Hoth a blue dwarf star?

ray_afraid said:

I mean in the opening text.

The ice world of hoth (system) so it is nameless and we all call it planet hoth.

Same for Dagobah.

Bespin is however bespin.

“6th planet of the hoth system, it’s shield can deflect any bombardment”

We all call the planet hoth but it is never actually named? It’s easier for marketing i guess but it’s definitely a bit more to it. That is what i am saying.

Books and stuff call ice planet Hoth.

And Lando system don’t forget that one.

I am sorry about this…

You are right… it’s not particularly related to any work ady has done but if there is confusion and seeking to clarify confusion (perhaps i make things more confused?). At the end of the day i pick up on stuff it might be fairly small and insignifficant but you can clearly see the remnent of different ideas when they made the film which slightly conflict each other and sometimes it does need fleshing out perhaps not here but oh well sorry for that.

This was because of trying to clarify no hyperspace jump because they did not know exactly where they were going… again oh well.

The problem being not relevant to project and just discussion i understand no harm meant.

Luke called the planet “dagobah”

Obi-wan said it was in the Dagobah star system.

2 very different things. I am not saying change it, but Obi-wan never names the planet at all only gives an indication where it is in terms of where the planet is…

That is the point i am making. I don’t mind it at all. All i am saying is the planet is secret the star system Dagobah is not.

For instance we are on earth in what we call the solar system.

I wonder if it would work better if Luke only said.

“There it is”

?

Just a small thought. Perhaps that would establish it better as a hidden strange world nameless and unchartered in the Dagobah system?

Dagobah star system…

nhoj3 said:

metalmunki said:

doubleofive said:

Yes, R2?

That’s all right. I’d like to keep it on manual control for a while.

(Untranslated beeps)

Was that creative license or did you have a source? Because I always thought R2 was saying something like ‘it’ll take me some time to calculate the jump to light speed’, like Dagobah is really out of the way, and R2 isn’t really prepared for such a journey. Then Luke’s reply is like he doesn’t mind the wait. Otherwise how do you ‘manually control’ a hyperspace route? Doesn’t really fit with what we know about Star Wars space travel.

Even so ‘would you like me to take over control?’ is kind of a clumsy sentence, mate!

It’s funny how open to interpretation Artoo’s beeps can be. I always interpreted this as Artoo thinking that Luke had maybe “lost his mind a little bit” for re-routing to the middle of nowhere and not wanting to rejoin the relative safety of fleet. I always laughed thinking that Artoo was was asking to take control of the ship so that he could try to fly them back to the rendevous instead of Dagobah.

I’m not sure why you feel that the translation was clumsy though. Is it that you didn’t like the implied noun of “the ship”… e.g. would you have preferred the complete sentence of “Would you like me to take over control of the ship?”.

Quite a few cut ideas from ESB ended up in the prequels.

Dagobah System having a hidden planet for one that was not on any maps relates to this The attack transport tanks with the big monster truck wheels and R2-D2’s rocket legs which were meant to propel him through water (Dagobah swamp) as well as outerspace I guess being an astromech droid.

Are the only ones I can think of from ESB at the moment…

Makes you wonder if the planet is actually called Dagobah or if it was really a nameless secret place. It is referred to as Dagobah and that is fine with me but I am not sure if that it ever really had a name as it was meant to be the hidden planet not on any maps in the Dagobah system.

Actually they changed it so Luke confirmed “there it is… Dagobah” but it was originally meant to be a secret planet.

Oh yeah the flying creatures on Kamino were designed for Bespin also.

Bingowings said:

For your consideration but I’m not sure if I’m sold on the idea.
RE: Marcia Lucas’ recent comments about the sudden appearance of the Falcon in the trench run.

Bingowings said:

It makes no logical sense, as the station defenses were designed to repulse ships larger than fighters.

It would have been nice if we heard a thunderclap of the Falcon jumping from hyperspace close to the station (taking a risk that he warned Luke about earlier in the film) but then you would miss the ship coming out of the sun.

Maybe Ady could play around with the concept in his next iteration of the film. I think as cinema it makes sense but even in a fantasy context it’s putting the Mechina into the Deus Ex.

this is very possible… It would just have to come before the laser hits the tie fighter that causes the collision sending Vader spinning out of control. very little to lose. I put the falcon firing in that slot worked pretty well.

I ordered a cheap dvd of conan the destroyer off ebay after discovering this. But paypal got hacked and my order vanished. It was only £1.00 though.

Other things i discovered there is a TV version that in the orgy scene uses a unique shot showing Conan and Subotai from the side before they tip the cauldron down the stairs. Also seems like a couple of extra shots of JEJ too. This to me confirms Milius and the studio have all the outs and trims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH-EW44aBGU

Also the czech dub features a piece of music never released it is a choir piece for when James Earl Jones explains his take on the riddle of steel. This music is lost at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dx62qCH_WI4

also of note the German version features an extra snippet of audio dialogue “don’t worry, I won’t hurt you” when pit fighter Conan is bred to the finest stock of women. Not relevant to this thread but it is extra discoveries I found out about.

I was thinking about the engine room where spock succombs to the radiation poisioning. Been a while since i watched these. Well i have a feeling about search for spock uses some shots from TWOK and i am sure it is something with that engine room scene.

Love the knight rider recycled reference shameless fun I guess.

It’s funny how it used to be acceptable to recycle footage and use the same shots again and again. For instance V the tv show and bdttlestar galactica original series. Airwolf another one in fact it used to happen an awful lot 😃

Just thinking was there not some alternative footage used in “the search for spock” at the start that was not at the end of “the Wrath of Khan”?

Hmmmm. It could be the re-used klingon bird of prey explosion? Sounds like there is something fishy no new special effects either. I don’t have the final frontier to check.

Thanks for the contribution added to first post

It’s a nice archive…

asterisk8 said:

Yeah, the whole point of flipping it is so that R2 is moving in the same direction in both shots. I guess Ady decided that was more important for the flow of the action than R2’s holo projector being on the correct side.

I think what adds to the confusion again on another level is this.

Lobot version.
Citizens uprising version.

You can only have one or the other. But we have a mixture of both. Assuming lobot was cut and then they shot the alternate shootout that we see bits of. Or even vice versa.