Ronster

From an outsider looking in on this 50/50 I like it / I don’t like it because of various reasons.

I offer this Council to you.

If you like it carry on with the saga buy cinema tickets, DVD and Blu-rays books merchandise you name it.

If you do not like it walk away and be done with it and decide it’s not for you.

I could see which way it was going and I am genuinely proud I will never see this film!

JawsTDS said:

Matt.F said:

But for anyone who didn’t like the film upon their first watch, please do go see it again. There’s too much to digest for one viewing. See it two, three, six more times before you make your judgement. I had to do the same with The Force Awakens and I ended up loving it - and expect the same from this movie.

So do you mind people like me who walked away from the force awakens after one viewing, knew I did not like it and decided I was not interested in the sequel trilogy at all and particularly not forcing myself to watch it six times to help put my mind at rest over why who what where and when I did and did not like.

Yep I walked away because the scales tipped away to “I do not like it, and I don’t care about it”

Anyway sounds like a mixed bag nothing I have read has been resoundingly positive about the last jedi and I thought that would be the case.

Judge said:

The only thing that really stuck out to me in my recent rewatch was the sequence where the set of stairs falls over in Moria. Looks like something out of the PS2 game.

Ah yes the close up also where they fall towards camera clearly blue screen or green screen.

There is a very computer game like quality to some of it. It is exactly something like that i would stamp update on you could possibly remove this sequence entirely to be honest.

^Thinking about this part of the film some more here is another goof watch this abandoned sequence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IqL_JIkVHY

Now after this part we are to get the bit where Legolas says “We are in your debt” which makes that whole line make sense now because of the rescue from a boblin horde. I am wondering if they are in lothlorien already when this line is spoken as it is on the lothlorien set then after this they are walking and are shown Lothlorien trees Cahadras in the distance… Feels very messy here possibly all the reshoots and shuffling.

Bear in mind this would have been color graded to be at night. Take note of switching day to night a lot here.

And the Cave trolls opening the black gate of Mordor they look half baked in two towers.

There is no project attached to this thread but I thought it was worth discussing the merits of this fantastic set of films and their eventual remastering.

Now there is much talk about what this remaster will be or what exactly will constitute considering the theatrical and extended versions and Peter Jackson perhaps joked about a 20th Anniversary Edition or even a 25th Anniversary edition Certainly what ever that is we are all looking forward to it.

It seems it is a mastered in 2k Resolution on film which throws the question of a upscaled 4K release which still would be a upgrade from Bluray regardless it won’t be true 4k ever which is fine by me if it simply was good quality release.

There are sets of people who yearn for changes such as Martin Freeman Replacing Ian Holm in the prologue and replacing the Gollum / Smeagol in the fellowship of the ring to be the same as the CGI model in the two towers. Peter Jackson teases these things in his commentaries…

People now also complain about outdated CGI and some shots that stick out like a sore thumb which I can honestly agree with certain instances where the CGI looks dated but is forgivable for the amazing sets costumes makeup miniatures and live action which will and have stood the test of time.

Now I will start to give some personal opinions about the films and what could be done to a revised but not particularly different way to handle a eventual remaster or new version.

I personally don’t care for trying to make the Lord of the rings fit to the Hobbit as they were inferior films so no Martin Freeman as far as I am concerned. Keep Ian Holm.

As far as Updating Gollum in Fellowship of the ring goes I think it could be interesting I am not against this idea I am not attached to the Gollum in Fellowship of the ring as a different design he does look a bit more sinister. But Andy Serkis was not Gollim at this point in production. It does not bother me but in terms of an alternate version I am ok with this. PJ stated that he would never allow the originals to be made unavailable so this won’t go down like Star Wars did.

I think that some of the Blue Screen and Green screen shots could be better blended in some instances where they are clearly Chroma keyed in to a background. This would be a great thing to do for some of the truly worst offenders.

Now I come to the case of people calling for updated CGI… Here is what I think on this. When the films were shot there were always meant to be big CGI effects shots and the ones planned for a long time that were worked on meticulously and still look good to this day… Peter Jackson during editing would often order large special effects shots with little time to work on them so meticulously as the ones that look good. I feel that some of these last minute orders on shots were a problem they are the ones that really show. Should they be updated? Perhaps but if they were put in to replace a live action version of a scene then it might be better to roll it back to a live action edit with no effects than a grandiose CGI fest that was a flash in the pan and pretty last minute. I will give an example.

Helms Deep - Riding out at dawn.

This shot above is one of those bad looking shots. But there is a whole live action edit where they rode out through the set of helms Deep… Now there is a possibility that this edit contained Liv Tyler but either way there should have been enough shots of Theoden, Aragorn, Eomer and Eowyn Fighting in the caves also etc. So what I am saying is there is enough coverage in terms of the last minute CGI shots to irradicate the bad looking ones and call for a better final cut If you catch my drift. It’s replacing subtlty for grandiose CGI that now looks bad dated and was very last minute anyway.

But if you go down this route where do you stop?

I would rather actual footage than fast food cgi feasts. So that was I think the distinction shots that were last minute either put it back to live action (better) or go for an update if you really have to?

There is also calls for correcting orlando Blooms eyes when he forgot to put his Blue contact lenses in. And replacing Stunt doubles faces with the actual actors faces where it is glaringly obvious it’s a double.

But now the flip side of this…

But then I came across a shot yesterday I did a little studying on the films recently… “The fellowship of the ring” upon them leaving Lothlorien and they are in the elven canoe boats we intercut between the Uruk’s and the fellowship in boats. This sequence was a total mess eventually I figured out that it is a special effects Sarumans crows are missing. You can hear the crows and you can see Legolas and Aragorn and Boromir look at them and in the script it says a flock of Crows… But the effects for the crows are not present in the edit and it looks shuffled up and jumbled. So should the effects be finished for this shot or leave it missing?

Let us know your thoughts on a Remaster or a Final Cut edition that PJ has teased he might do something…

Ok So after a Lord of the Rings Marathon the other day I realised although the films were shot all together when it came to editing the films some things became apparent,

Lord of the Rings - Peter Jackson

Although in terms of the Lord of the rings books the climax of “The Two Towers” was always the battle at Helms Deep and also Frodo being stung and paralysed by Shelob with also Aragorn taking the paths of the dead…Regardless of this these story elements were always planned to move over to the film “The Return of the King” from “The Two Towers” book including a pairing down of Saruman being stabbed by Wormtoungue on top of Orthanc rather than “scourging of the Shire” as in the book… But in terms of scenes filmed always intended to be in “The Two Towers” Movie that made their way into “The Return of the King” Movie there are a few notable sequences moved to the sequel…

1. Smeagol (Opening to the Return of the King) fighting and killing Deagol over the lost but newly found one ring of power. Shot for “The Two Towers” but became redundant originally intended to be inserted where Frodo says “Your name was Smeagol was’nt it”

2. Scenes of Arwen Leaving Middle Earth and premonitions of a child she would bare with Aragorn were also shot and intended to go in to “The Two Towers” but made their way in to the sequel.

Will add to first post.

Just for the sake of a side note there was originally meant to be a meeting between Elrond and Galadriel in Lothlorien in which Galadriel Recited the prologue Dialogue from “The Fellowship of the Ring” in Elvish to Elrond… “The world has Changed” and so on But also with a conclusion about weather to intervene in the world of men which was decided help would be given…the important part that is missing is Arwen also looking into Galadriels mirror upon visiting Lothlorien presumably where she would have seen her possible unborn child from Aragorn which would conflict with Elronds opinion of why she should leave Middle Earth and not choose a mortal life and a conflict over Elronds vision vs Galadriels mirror and uncertain futures.

This was made in to a telepathic communication eventually in editing on “The Two Towers” but ultimately meant losing Arwen looking into Galadriels mirror causing havoc for her subplot.

Another important shuffle in the “Return of the King” is that when Pippin and Gandalf first arrive at Minas Tirith the scene with the Nazgul attacking and a retreating Faramir from Osgiliath were to intersect as in so much as Gandalf arrives at Minas Tirith fending off the Nazgul (Gandalfs light in his staff) to help Faramir escape not already being in the city there with Pippin.

“The Champ” Starring Jon Voight needs to also get a HD release look out for that one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSTaxV3v5vY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzThZZKkPW0

Mocata said:

“People” want X-Men meets Avengers movies. Why would they need Star Wars? They have Star Wars. They have had Star Wars: CGI Song and Dance Edition for 20 years and they probably like it.

You mean we can’t have Terminator vs Alien Vs Star Wars Vs Predatror movies… This is a really sad day 😦

SilverWook said:

I recently saw the documentary, Room 237, (about people with their, shall we say, creative theories about Kubrick’s hidden messages in the film) and the tennis ball shot is a proper yellow! Wonder what the actual source was they used for this?

I watched this documentary last night… Yeah a bit of whacky fun. The moon landing conspiracy theory was my favorite one but i don’t really believe it had any factual evidence.

I think what can be inferred is that there is a personal message in there and what it is who knows? But the people and their theories all agree on there is more to it than you think and I also agree with that. But i am not sure i believe any of the theories even though they were quite interesting from genocide of Native american indians, greek mythology, Nazis and the holocaust and faked moon landings it was bizarre but also made me feel normal 😃

The orientation maps were cool i digged that too!

Yeah looks good… Are those shots also re-used in wrath of khan also?

Anyway yeah what you have there is much better than TMP blu atleast.

Made another astonishing discovery… Williams Vs Han.

In the sequence inside the office although there were 2 small snippets of footage missing from it, what I also have discovered is that the shots were re-arranged including the music and sound effects with the subsequent re-arrangement that took place or editing goofs. There was also a shot that was flipped that should not have been flipped.

This has all been re-edited and for me it was a very nice find and it’s like watching the film properly for the first time now it’s in the right order.

I liked it so much, I want to share the clip for history sake and to log the editing goof in public. I will keep the mirror maze under wraps though until releasing the edit.

Audio wise there is 4 edits.
1.Han says today instead of yesterday matches his lips too.
2.Missing Foley when Han swipes one of his own guards
3.Han shout from the Hong Kong Trailer Mono Sound mix when he knocks williams through the wall which can’t be found on the Mandarin or Cantonese mixes.
4.Added missing Base frequencies to Disco Room

clip below and please tell me what you think if you have any thoughts on it.

https://vimeo.com/245707507

Comparison Clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MJfW7-isPA&t=3s

Came across a few interesting Video Links Check these out well worth it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgWTFq8F874

Alternate VHS Trailer - Sound effects and music only

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcF5xhKU7EI

Conan The Barbarian - From the Vault rare original production documentary… This is particularly interesting because it contains a few music less scenes.

Well, this is enough to keep excitement up for the TV cut keep your eyes peeled folks…

Just to clarify the AMC version does not contain the alternate edits…

oojason said:

&

😉

you have a golden eye oojason!

red5-626 said:

Ronster said:

The best solution would be to pay a fee for the original film release to stream off a website which pays royalties to the actual companies that are entitled to payment for the intellectual property but which also unlocks fan versions or preservations and alternatives of said title purchased that can be viewed as optional in addition to the title you bought the right to watch and stream.

This would create communities around films. And users could share artwork and opinions / reviews so on and so fourth about the film.

difficult but that I think would be ideal.

No matter weather you own a physical copy you would if you like have to subscribe to the film via this streaming site to view edits scans or whatever of a film made by other fans.

There are a number of reasons this is all very positive with no downsides that I can think of because film companies get paid… People learn software tools for free, People can get job offers to work on restoring films or companies can look and scout for talent based on output. I think it’s a good niche circle and would be all round positive. And also build strong fan bases and communities around films that have large, small and cult followings. And also attract people even if they were not wanting to do any work on any titles but simply they follow both the original work and what fans also do with it.

Creation space surrounding films of all kinds with options and extras surrounding an IP and fun most of all.

It will also be a great source of Information for reboots, sequels,remakes and hopefully more original IP’s.

this would likely screw people like me that have bad internet!

once subscribed a download button is fair option but the player will restrict you from sharing it.

The best solution would be to pay a fee for the original film release to stream off a website which pays royalties to the actual companies that are entitled to payment for the intellectual property but which also unlocks fan versions or preservations and alternatives of said title purchased that can be viewed as optional in addition to the title you bought the right to watch and stream.

This would create communities around films. And users could share artwork and opinions / reviews so on and so fourth about the film.

difficult but that I think would be ideal.

No matter weather you own a physical copy you would if you like have to subscribe to the film via this streaming site to view edits scans or whatever of a film made by other fans.

There are a number of reasons this is all very positive with no downsides that I can think of because film companies get paid… People learn software tools for free, People can get job offers to work on restoring films or companies can look and scout for talent based on output. I think it’s a good niche circle and would be all round positive. And also build strong fan bases and communities around films that have large, small and cult followings. And also attract people even if they were not wanting to do any work on any titles but simply they follow both the original work and what fans also do with it.

Creation space surrounding films of all kinds with options and extras surrounding an IP and fun most of all.

It will also be a great source of Information for reboots, sequels,remakes and hopefully more original IP’s.

I would say make the site free to join and post and review and discuss a films merits and it’s shortfalls If you are a fan you subscribe this then unlocks your subscriptions to news about the title and fan base work from art, sound and video.

That is really all I have to say on the idea.

That is what i am hoping for on Syfy.

Also they have an article about conan as a character being his 85th Birthday… Fingers ctossed it get’s scheduled. I will keep a look out for it, really hoping the syfy tv version airs again.

Holiday season nearly here…

Is this on over the Holidays?

If not does anyone have this version already?

Please let me know either of the above

Thanks and sorry for the bump

Can I draw attention to the fact they all have weird breathing apparatus on again… That’s not by chance that is definitely by design. I can’t help but believe the french translation film dude who claimed about the insectocide attack on Geonosis that Saw and Moroff and two tubes were all involved in.

But any way like I said here’s hoping we get to see it or even some of it and the original end battle. Original Eadu sequence original opening narrative. Original Jedha sequences. Original Yavin scenes.

Best new Star Wars film that I doubt will be toppled by any other Disney release but I would like to see them try.

Let’s hope so!

By chance I met the Lady that cut’s the trailers for Star Wars in September (on a job) she thinks Disney “might” release Gareth Edwards version one day “possibly” and confirmed that he lost control which is pretty obvious and not really a secret.

But there is a glimmer of hope for either deleted scenes or an alternate cut to see the light of day or it’s being considered no confirmation but her personal opinion. She must have seen loads of it but I did not ask her any specifics, but I did say it was very much a curiosity and can’t help but wonder what it might have been before the changes happened and she understood this and nodded.

Anime is quite different to real footage but the best thing I think I can do is release what I have done and if someone who is more talented than myself can further improve on it or cares too… Then that would be fine by me.

just doing some final tweaks to it… Not much left to be done at all.

I don’t really want to digitally scrub the film clean either only color correct it and sort the contrast out which is 99.99% done practically. I am pleased with it.

Thanks for Linking to AVCHDCoder looks quite good…

Valheru_84 said:

jarbear said:

From that stand point, he was burned with lava. Looking at Vader’s bald head shows the damage removed all his hair. Eyebrows are hair. So to me it would make sense for the removal.

It does make sense if you simply apply the same rule to all facial hair regardless of actual damage to the area. You are right that the top of his head is damaged but his eyebrow area is not, so even if his eyebrows were burnt off due to proximity to the lava, they would grow back.

I know this because of the fact that my cousin once had all his eyebrows burnt off from lighting a bonfire with petrol. He let the fuel sit too long before lighting it, allowing the vapour to gather around the bonfire stack and when he lit it, the vapour exploded and went up in a huge fireball, burning my cousins eyebrows right off. He still has eyebrows today though as they simply grew back 😉

If Vader had sustained the same kind of damage to his eyebrow area so as to stop them growing back, I doubt he would have a face left.

OT.com, the only place you’ll find people debating whether to keep a character’s eyebrows or not LOL! George simply shouldn’t have removed them in the first place, in which case we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

.Val

Now that is raising your eye brows properly!

😃

trimboNZ said:

Any other bad effects stood out for anyone?

Silly spinning speeder bike sound effect…

Created a DVD Start Screen Loop Based on the !973 Premiere at Mann’s Chinese Theatre… Hope you like it!

Video Below

https://vimeo.com/244381277

I suppose I had better add made a very important discovery about the mirror maze and it’s pretty astonishing…

Don’t forget about “Final Approach” the fist film to use digital sound processing rather than analogue also it has never made it to DVD let alone Bluray it is only on VHS and laser disc.

“The revenge of billy the kid” a B-movie UK comedy is another not available in HD actually pretty sick but also very funny. It is a very stupid over the top but great b-movie. Only on DVD.

Whatever I choose to use It will be extremely basic and totally bare bones.

I have little desire for anything complicated and loads of menus and stuff.

I might model it to be similar to an old VHS that just plays but has chapters as a bonus to skip to a scene that is all i am planning for. There will be no subtitle track unless somone cares to create one.

But cheers for the info I need one that will create DVD9 anyway.