How’s things come along with this?
Any Interesting stuff you found?
Threepio and Artoo being at the Rebel base makes sense if Bail Organa is there. There’s nothing to contradict them not having been to the Yavin system before.
Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba being on Jedha was pushing it. Had they simply been in the foreground or background of a crowd scene instead of calling attention to them would have been better.Exactly, and the same goes for R2 and 3PO. Calling attention to then is just a distraction from the plot to say, “Remember these guys?” I don’t mind Easter eggs, I just don’t like it when films stop in order to draw my attention to things that are exciting purely because they were in other, better films.
The problem that reared it’s ugly head there was that R2 and 3P0 were never meant to be on raddus ship but on the Tantive (and the Tantive was not part of or inside Raddus ship). It would have just had the Blockade runner receiving the transmission and going to hyperspace. Nothing too fancy.
so because of all the retro fitting it made it appear like they were just shoved in the film, when before the film was altered it probably made much more sense in the first cut of the film.
It’s pretty stupid to try and mess with films after they have been filmed in “big ways” unless you re-shoot the whole lot pertaining to the new story. A directors Vision is worth nothing to most of these studios. It’s the studios vision that matters.
But it’s also poor planning with an urge to make mega bucks quick with the needle swinging to forgettable content rather than memorable.
I believe he’s tooling with you, sir.
He is a wind up merchant just like me…
You know though i never actually realized how complex this situation is.
And although Lucusfilm are now “the caretakers” for the whole franchise.
George is still a shrood businessman. And i would not be surprised if every other version from 97 onward was not so much he “wanted” to make changes and could but by making changes and patenting another unique version he was somehow increasing his leverage in his ownership. Or Broadening his reach on his property.
Basically he is not faced with any yes or no situations. His replies can be more in line with.
Which, what, how, only if you…
If we ever get the ignore feature back Ronster might go on my list. I don’t even dislike the guy, it’s just there’s no reason to ever read his posts because they never make sense.
Look up “negative pick up deal” on films.
Then you will understand that different films have different types of contracts. That is in a lot of cases directors do not have artistic control over the films they delivered and the studio bought. That is the studio owns the film. If the studio wanted to change the film without the directors consent they have every right to as they have full ownership of the material.
What i am saying and it should not be hard to understand if you don’t i would be very surprised…
Are you questioning if George has complete final say over what he does with “his films”? He exercises his right to change them because he can and nobody could take that right away from him.
But there could be other reasons why he made changes each time Star Wars got released other than he could simply change them if he wanted to. It would cerainly complicate any release given how many versions there are. Each one will no doubt be patented. The 2011 and theatrical cut are the opposite ends of the spectrum and even though he probably retains full artistic control over his films. I would very much doubt it is something he would now care to exercise, and he is not in the same position to exercise that sort of power of influence. But I would say it is up to George Lucus ultimately. But he has retired and he is not going to get in the way of what the company want to do. But he will have to agree what is released with his films. Because he owns them.
He also does not have unfettered access to ILM and Lucusfilm resources like he did.
Honestly. I hope that makes sense.
Because we were talking about directors control over their artistic creations.
And probably Lucusfilm own all the sequeal trilogy and spin offs. Hired gun directors. Can’t remember the terminology but a studio can own a film and a director can also own their art.
American werewolf in London is a film say that John Landis can not change or alter he has no say. Only consultation. It is a type of contract for directors. Can’t remember. Basically he has no ownership on the film. Negative Pick up deal.
But George owns the original films and the prequeals artistically not the company as such. As although it was company money it was Lucus’s own money and independently funded majority share.
This is the point.
He lost control of the film. Taken away probably. He was not calling the shots at the end either way. Perhaps it just was not working or atleast that seems to be the general consensus.
But it is not like he became an enemy or something it just got taken away.
It happens a lot now days.
And the music composer disappeared as well probably because of how much a re-write and liked what he had done and did not want to change what he had done.
On Godzilla Gilroy was also btought in on that film… But I still like Monsters also
The OOT you mean ?
George’s Vision won’t be messed with the Special Edition is what you will get.
It is too complicated to release the originals.
But evidently Lucusfilm ltd have complete control of assets and any unused materials. It is company owned they own all of it.
Well… Normally whenever a restoration is done a director is consulted.
Yeah: THE director, i.e. Lucas. Case dismissed.
Ok then you will never see the OT again.
He did the concept for Rogue One. He wrote the initial basic draft. And he headed up the VFX but he did it well. And he was supervisor of the project.
But Edwards would have also had a say in production. It was the closest yet to the right tone overall the right look and grit.
Nowhere… Just forget about it. Gareth Edwards is actually a rubbish director but I personally liked his films.
Probably the big joke is a huge CGI VFX house releasing a film with any real models left in it…
“Just look at what we can do now” again.
Sorry, I meant what do you mean Edwards being pushed out.
I’m waiting on this too. Ronster says things all of the time that are either misunderstandings or crazy speculation.
Read it again. 😃 He was chucked off RO. I think he is a good director perhaps he is too experimental for big budget blockbusters but he does not go too over the top and even though he even aspires on VFX based stuff he does try to tone it down to be real and gritty. Which is perfect for Star Wars.
He was chucked off but he was kept around for PR. But he still did a great job even though all the clamour about saving the film he did do excellently i think.
He got the tone right where as the reshoots did not.
I think he really understood something about the original fims that say JJ abrams did not.
But JJ had a different job to start a new trilogy but he set a different tone. Which is reasonable I suppose.
Also who knows if they had even gone through a final color pass yet. (Furthermore, would that step be done by Reliance or by Lucasfilm?)
Obviously Lucusfilm have no need to farm out color grading and recomps that would all be done in house. So reliance probably only scanned the film.
This is i would imagine not the run of the mill case because Lucufilm is a massive VFX house but happen to also have their own films which is unique in todays world.
Do you mean John Knoll ? The guy who sold the idea of the Special Editions to George Lucas ?!
Yes. But that does not mean we won’t see the original version. He no doubt has a lot of respect still for the original film because he was the one also playing that nice extended scene in the deathstar conference room. And talking about Peter Cushings acting being good.
He may realise now you can not beat the real thing…
Well… Normally whenever a restoration is done a director is consulted.
Perhaps there is a general acceptance even if it is the special edition that it now looks different.
So is George to sit there pouring over the new Master and quality checking it or somone else? He is getting on a bit now and he may have given up creative input or even advisory position even though he was the director.
What ever version it is. Somone has to meticulously sign off on it. If they are happy or not but even just let it go and say ok this is the final master.
Perhaps it is in a bit of Limbo and is accepted that it needs more work.
A lot of the other clips on their show reel look good or more right than the star wars ones. The Empire Clip looks quite good and raiders of the lost ark.
Somone has to over see these projects don’t they?
I mean to say something looks different but better is ok i think but to look different and worse will not wash.
And being the same or very similar would tick the box.
It would probably rest on John Knowle somewhat… But he is busy with all the new films no doubt.
If they were not making six new films we would have seen it by now.
It was probably only a scan clean up and general grade possibly?
Reliance MediaWorks said they restored the trilogy in 4k. Nothing was ever confirmed, denied, or released.
They obviously have done something… There is probably some sort of pseudo edit that needs to be reperformed or perhaps not?
Does it state that the version was a scan of the 97 version or from original negatives?
Gareth Edwards saw it and said “It looked different”
I would actually rather Gareth Edwards oversee a release! But i think he is out really, pushed out. But at least on the same page and normal response from him.
That said, a recompositing of the original film elements for an OUT wouldn’t offend me, but I also don’t tend to think it is necessary.
People on this site are the only ones I’ve ever seen that claim to be offended by recompositing the original effects. I don’t think they’re bothered by the TNG blurays though.
The question is, if all the SEs had done was recomp the effects, and had this become the only available version of the films, would this website exist? I bet not. I think the nature of the situation and the fact that we’ve been forced to create these projects has created radicals.
Yeah that would have been good enough as a Special edition. But you know say that clip they showed where there was extra dialogue in the conference room on the Death Star before Tarkin and Vader walk in.
Things like that would have been nice additions that would actually have really added something subtle and interesting without screwing anything up…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Erf6s_wYJk
^ This would have been normal sort of special edition Fayre…
Instead we are left with Plastic crap looking stuff intermingled with a classic film from 1977.
Why add the Jabba scene when everything has already been covered in the Greedo scene? when you could have just extended the conference scene actually adding something of worth…
I think the Space scenes they get away with the CGI there Sandcrawler Model and the new mattes (on some occasions) but that is really about it.
I don’t mind something being updated. But the whole tone of many of the changes is chalk and cheese, that is a lot of them do not work well Mos Eisley in particular is totally ruined, I Like the Falcon Take off though I think that one is fairly agreeable there is little hurt to be felt and makes it a bit more exhillarating.
The explosions of Alderaan and The Death Star are not that good either.I could stomach only having a Special edition available as long as it did not screw the film up to the point where something you really loved you look at and hate in parts of it now…
When I first heard about the OT SE’s I was hoping for a straight forward expansion of the films. Using original deleted materials only - no intrusive CGI to taint the films vintage. I would have preferred seeing more deleted character moments, rather than ‘improvements’ to SFX and sets (Mos Eisley, Ben’s hovel & Cloud City).
That would be a rather normal expectation like I also had.
It went for the wow factor… “just look at what we can do now!” 20 years on fron 97… “just look at what you did!”
😃
I think in terms of the OT and special edition it goes like this for me.
Episode 4 went too far in places did not go far enough in others.
Episode 5 fell well short of what could have been done.
Episode 6 could have been a bit better but it was ok and it never really felt like the crowning achievement version that rounded it all off even though they tried at the end it fell a bit short.
I think the Special editions problem is that by and large they come up pretty empty and leave you wanting more even though you got more you did not get more of what you wanted… That being acting and characters and story. You end up with a superficial add on that is technical and not intrinsicly linked to what you would expect from seeing a “Normal Special Edition”
And really that is it I think it leaves one feeling “what if?” Rather than “i have seen more!” You feel like you have seen less than you had seen in some ways, it is depleting even though it is additive it is not additive in terms of what you first saw and what you grew up with.
R2 laughing at 3PO tangled up was originally right after they cross the hallway during the shoot out at the beginning of the film. The film cuts away at the explosion, but that’s where the shot of 3PO tangled up originally went.
Thanks!
So that explains why 3P0 was later looking for him…
The ones during the chess game although I am not absolutely sure so don’t hold me over a Barrel but might go when Chewie is having his handcuffs put on him. At the end R2’s head changes position a few times. Not anything particularly earth shattering in any case. 😃
I have not checked this so unconfirmed but my gut tells me it’s around there somewhere…
Well one more clip in my exploration Of Star Wars A new Hope.
This will probably be the last one as although I was scoping out the possibility of an Extended edit I have pretty much come up short. But that does not mean people won’t find things interesting still. So this was an Audio project and with things like this sometimes it can be too Hard to explain so I am sharing this in clip form.
Landspeeder Search & The Sand People Attack
First Watch it!
Here is a Breakdown of the Audio Changes. No Video Changes
So all in all This was quite Subtle although it sounds quite a lot from the text it is actually not extremely noticeable bar the absence of the weird Shrill Eco yelling. But I would say that I think it works well and I think it feels a bit more Grounded and more subtle without the Shrill Echo Yells.
There was a desire to time the click of the Macro Binoculrs with the zoom in… But ultimately that would have had to have been done with Video Speed I Guess, Basically I wanted to do it but never got to it but the whirr after the clic I was going to use a Blur for that whirring sound after the click was the Macros attaining focus.
Just a bit of Fun but I like it and thought it was worth sharing this.
Yeah, that’s exactly how it goes in Revisited.
Whoops sorry!
Just been having a poke around the film recently.
I’m not intending to do an edit of the film but I was curious about the scope of an extended edit. I only ever looked at the end Battle in terms what I would do with the film personally and It would not be any longer or perhaps a smidge tidbit… So I have just been looking at a few other parts for the first time that took my interest and it still is not getting much longer perhaps again a tinsy bit but nothing you could call a proper extended edit.
I just thought the ideas there might but up Adywans Street so at least one of is!
😃
One of the things I am really curious about and I think Ady handled it well was R2-D2 shots where he is on the Death Star but placed when he is on the Millennium Falcon. That is Ady Kept the shot in location but replaced the background which if fine, but I am very curious about where they came from and if they actual go somewhere else?
I have no idea at all but I am very curious about the R2-D2 death star shots during the chess game and When he laughs at 3P0 being tangled up after the Tie Fighter Attack. It’s those sorts of things that pique my interest.
Been looking at the Start of the film and here is some things that I noticed.
So In the SE DVD Menu we have the complete shot of “the escape pod” (actually there should be 2 of them) detaching from the Tantive and flying off whilst under the Devastator (Star Destroyer). This Pod should be destroyed.
When we see the pod flying away When R2-D2 and 3P0 are in the escape Pod the Tantive should be secured in the underbelly of the Star destroyer. i.e locked in the clamp.
Basically the shot of the escape POD flying away on the underbelly view was never at any point when it was shot the POD that R2-D2 and 3P0 are in because of the position of the BLocakade Runner not being locked in the underbelly of the Star Destroyer… So that shot in the film was always one of the decoy pods or simply somone trying to escape and it is obvious when it was meant to happen (before the Blockade Runner get’s clamped in).
The next thing in this part I noticed was that when Captain Antilles is strangled. I think a very good enhancement would be to remove the wire from his Helmet so as the Illusion is complete that Vader is picking him up in such a way by the throat. The Next point regarding this scene comes in the way of sound. Was listening to the radio drama and Captain Antilles is thrown in to a sort of Gas tank or something. In the Radio Drama when he hits the Tank it Makes a “Donk” noise… In the German Version (at least) it seems to use this same “Donk” noise from the radio drama. But in the Original sound mix it has on set audio for him hitting the wall… So the suggestion was to also swap that out as it seems like an audio editing goof for the original sound mix. Also the Radio Drama features some Gasping sounds which may have been intended to go in between the cracking of his neck upon him being strangled. Anyway you understand the Deal here. This could be a vast improvement.
The next part that had me thinking was C3-P0 waving to the Sandcrawler… Actually it is a black triangle with a flashing light. But what got me thinking was perhaps merging the original theatrical Sandcrawler model shot into this scene where he sees it then a smaller version roto-scoped in when he waves his arms and you can see the horizon… This way the Theatrical version is re-purposed in a honorable way and is not lost. But given how far away the Sandcrawler is in the original version it would not surprise me if it was actually intended to go in this scene.
Some food for thought but these are none the less interesting ideas I think. And I Guess I am just trying to evaluate the possibility of what can be kept from the theatrical cut also from any country for that matter. Can special edition and Theatrical version co-exist in the same film? Should we mourn a black triangle with a flashing light?
That said, a recompositing of the original film elements for an OUT wouldn’t offend me, but I also don’t tend to think it is necessary.
People on this site are the only ones I’ve ever seen that claim to be offended by recompositing the original effects. I don’t think they’re bothered by the TNG blurays though.
The question is, if all the SEs had done was recomp the effects, and had this become the only available version of the films, would this website exist? I bet not. I think the nature of the situation and the fact that we’ve been forced to create these projects has created radicals.
Yeah that would have been good enough as a Special edition. But you know say that clip they showed where there was extra dialogue in the conference room on the Death Star before Tarkin and Vader walk in.
Things like that would have been nice additions that would actually have really added something subtle and interesting without screwing anything up…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Erf6s_wYJk
^ This would have been normal sort of special edition Fayre…
Instead we are left with Plastic crap looking stuff intermingled with a classic film from 1977.
Why add the Jabba scene when everything has already been covered in the Greedo scene? when you could have just extended the conference scene actually adding something of worth…
I think the Space scenes they get away with the CGI there Sandcrawler Model and the new mattes (on some occasions) but that is really about it.
I don’t mind something being updated. But the whole tone of many of the changes is chalk and cheese, that is a lot of them do not work well Mos Eisley in particular is totally ruined, I Like the Falcon Take off though I think that one is fairly agreeable there is little hurt to be felt and makes it a bit more exhillarating.
The explosions of Alderaan and The Death Star are not that good either.
I could stomach only having a Special edition available as long as it did not screw the film up to the point where something you really loved you look at and hate in parts of it now…
I love the flickering, pale, imperfect lightsabers in Star Wars.
That said, a recompositing of the original film elements for an OUT wouldn’t offend me, but I also don’t tend to think it is necessary.
Edit: Also, interesting you mentioned Mike. He mentions in one is his videos (I think his restoration of the Death Star approach), that his work approximates what recompositing would accomplish, noting that that would be ideal. Even a purist like Mike doesn’t shy away from improving upon the O-neg so long as the original photographic elements aren’t altered.
Edit 2: I believe this to be the link:
I think what ever happens next the Special Edition is basically for the scrap heap. Just for the Mos Eisley Comedy Dinosaurs part on it’s own it will be comitted to the grave. It’s had it’s time and needs to be Dead and Buried.
In terms of going back to the original elements sure why not… But also how many elements were shot that did not even make it in to the film. So it’s a double edged sword there. You could go another step further…
So I think Lucus needs to be consulted but he also needs to be realistic about his film that he made in 1977. Lucusfilm no longer need to present themselves as CGI effects house on the back of Star Wars.
I would not be opposed to a halfway house or semi specialized version even another version but Lucus does need to accept he went to far but it was not all bad but a lot of damage was done.
It needs to be sorted out with very obvious changes that were made that hurt of the film at the very least removed. But there was much more scope in the film for changes in better places than I had previously even realized myself that actually would restore a small amount original intention but they are at the end of the day quite minor. And the Special Edition was just a CGI shit show really apart from Yavin Battle, The Sandcrawler Model and a few updated matte shots which I don’t mind.
It would be easy for a branched Original Matte vs Updated Matte version.
I am not sure what it will be but anything other than a CGI Fest. Subtle changes are ok.
absolute final edit of The Destruction of Alderaan…
Things of Note…
The Second shot of Yavin IV and R2-D2 on the Death Star move to other locations…
Tried for the perfect and I am so so close on this. But pleased with the final outcome much better for the actors.
Just listening to the German version for the first time.
Peter Cushing in the German Dub says when interogating Leia in the Destruction of Alderaan “Then Name the System!.. Where is it?”
The “Where is it?” is missing in the English Language Version. I wonder if this could be done or find Peter Cushing Saying that line in another film? He does mouth the line after all…
Also Does Captain Antilles when he hit the wall make an alternate sound effect rather than on set audio found in the English Version?
Small observation anyway. Not that it is for you to fix but Class A Error on Sound mix in original production!
Making a few more discoveries but there won’t be much more think nearly exhausted the Material now. Spanner in the works a bit for ROTJ…
When Luke Looks down the shaft the mysterious music was meant to show this painting of the Bridges and the core below him before he fights and swings across it.
https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F0a%2F06%2F8b%2F0a068bb17b80548f789cce9a68299793.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ffi.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F356769601700739190%2F&docid=F4cPFt1C9KIwcM&tbnid=pzMISenQHflaUM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwiUpr62rdrYAhXLI8AKHdddBEIQMwhDKAQwBA..i&w=1280&h=784&itg=1&bih=898&biw=1106&q=death star shaft mcquarrie&ved=0ahUKEwiUpr62rdrYAhXLI8AKHdddBEIQMwhDKAQwBA&iact=mrc&uact=8
(Probably) The effects that follow the Emperors Death is the Start of the Chain Reaction before the Death Star explodes so this probably replaces the Tarkin thoughtful Repeated shot.
No time difference
Rough Idea for Star Wars Extra Extended Edition
Include some special edition scenes but discard others (i.e. Mos eisley cartoon Dinosaurs and Jabba the Freak + stupid cantina revisionism)
Make new edition that is better and actually add something and enhance.
Attempt to work print sections (chronological versions that are slightly extended or shortened)
Extended cut but only in terms of the theatrical edition.
Add cut music and sound effects.
Use Alternative footage where it is interesting.
Add only Feasible Deleted material.
If it ends up + 1 minute it would still be good.
My thoughts are if what happens in the roughly the same amount of time is better then it will still be better.
