how about the lasers choose weather or not they are green more lime green or strong cyan green.
there really is no consistancy but I personally find that Lime green looks good and the rest look no good with blobby color surrounding them so no brainer as far as I am concerned any laser not Lime green is not the right shade of green.
If you watch the Gout Dvd when 3p0 is going in the tub from a dissolve in…
Look at the cyan hexagon lights behind him. They go from being Cyan to red once the disdolve effect is done.
these are shown as Green hecagon lights now in later transfers but I think they are actually that cyan color in reality.
but the sudden change in color would probably be the telecine machine starting it’s settings which was not possible to do on the actual dissolve effect. Hence cyan suddenly became red all of a sudden on this shot.
Vader with pink lights on his belt rather than green when he enters the Tantive.
Vaders chest plate…
On and on weird and unusual and impossible without something altering the image in an extreme way. But it’s also probably something that improved the way the film looked in many ways.
I appreciate the effort but would like to improve upon that effort.
Ronster,
This one is for you. For all our leaning yellow or red discussion, look how Threepio has fared. Compare the 1982 LD to the JSC LS. All all places in between.
Which one do you think is the right color. So many choices here.
The one i think looks best is top right Fox Ld.
don’t know if it is actually right or not but it looks the best and essentislly all these images you are posting prove that there is not really any wrong or right only looking better or worse.
The Binary sunset shot though is a special effects error or something, it is just “fucked up” and it’s not worth particularly much apart from knowing that looks totally wrong compared to the 3p0 shot makes sense no matter what different color is displayed from the transfer is relative no doubt to the rest of the film in a sense.
You need to look at the technidisc it was a transfer of technicolor print. Or atleast I think it was?
Essentially what I have done is shift the Gout to sort out the skin tones but this has left me with a video with a purple weirdness to it. Probably similar to what a print on the way out would look like. Bug I have dealt with the Purple problem not shifted it to hide the purple problem that it had.
So it is a good reason to do it… They were blatently shifting color on that transfer and it is plain to see that it was shifted to hide the problem.
Seriously yotsoya you pissed me off… But I am ok with you just stop inflicting your stuff on me.
I really felt like quitting the site ok I am here to make a post… I sat down with the Gout first 2 vobs most difficult took quite a bit more time than the remaing files everything after tbat flew through it looks good happy with it.
Hue Shift overall change througout Purple pulled back round to blue.
Things I noticed at this time…
The green lasers are off some of the time when it comes to the end of the film certain elements are in different hues for example tench background and lasers require positive shift / actors and bluescreen require negative shift. The way to circumnavigate this was to use selective correction but ideally you would take separate elements and re-composite in the correct color. Stars and starfields are cyan not blue/ purple.
The whole purple conundrum keeps showing up again and again and it is the plague of this film. Nothing “Should” be purple as a whole sort of tint put it this way. Purple in anyway shape or form tinted shows the degredation.
Sorry lots of posts here and just had a look today quite suprised… will read these when i get a chance but essentially I am done apart from snippets where I will capture between Vobs where the rip missed some frames.
I am personally happy with the result though I am pleased I did the process. Interesting also is that if you shift quite a few of the special edition shots say for instance mos eisley CGI shots they look like the images posted on the packaging of the laserdiscs and books.
You need to be sure that when you see these colors, these are the colors you are getting:
This really does not hold up when you consider Vader’s chest plate is Blue yet it is green in some shots.
I ask you to be reasonable about how brutal this might be… I told you and you just want red faces Green chest plates so on. That is what you want no matter what I am saying you want it to look fucked up. I don’t.
45% shift in Cyan is huge… How the hell does that happen?
Please answer this rather than keep having a go at me otherwise I quit this site.
Is using an HDR monitor really the best way to color correct non-HDR sources? I fully admit i have no idea, but it sounds to me like maybe you shouldn’t be using that as a color correction monitor.
For a start I can’t even run the screen in native resolution as I have nothing 4K to put in or any HDMI 2.0 devices.
Rocky Horror is perhaps a good benchmark for the right time 1975 and how a good restoration should look.
This was quick in Gimp but Master Brightness and Contrast about +23 on both to bring this up to the same sort of level as Rocky Horror.
Before Brightness Contrast change. But Hue Shifted.
Original GOUT image color
As you can see I don’t want to do an awful lot to it anyway. This is basically the complete process of what I want to do. Apart from fixing the parts where the GOUT is no Good I plan to use the 97 Laserdisc.
Swingback on Cyan reveals Blue and Red Vader Chest Plate…Also notice the weird staining disappear on the left of the screen. This is about 45% out on hue for Cyan.
Here is my original Gout Shift
The process I am thinking of employing is the Purple swing back as well as the Brightness and contrast. This will be done via Selective Correction I also added some yellow in the Shadow here.
Basically I will do what ever I think it needs to get it looking better. Another Cyan Stain on the left mind you… It might be 45% in opposite direction this time?
It knows it is a PC, those options are available depending on what is connected to it. My TV is not on internet I only use it as a monitor.
I used the Nvidia control panel is much better than windows built in one.
Bullshit. That is through a scaler.
I just loaded up Windows Display Calibration.
I have had to set the Gamma from my graphics card to very nearly 0. This seems like the software was not written to accomodate 4K HDR screens.
I don’t think it looks right at all everything is too dark. But it says this is what my gamma should be really dark.
Gladiator uncut would also be a big draw for myself personally.
I think the newly found outtakes from ghostbusters will show up at some point.
But how about The Good the Bad the Ugly. There is a glimmer of hope that these things can be put right and if 4K HDR put’s them Right I think adoption of that format will be good.
Rogue One original cut before re-shoots would be another one for the list.
Braveheart uncut also.
Highlander extended cut.
I think the only thing that will make me Adopt 4K HDR (Pay for the transmitter and the cost of the free reciever) is stuff we have not seen before.
I like some new films, a lot of new films I don’t like at all. But I think the only way off actually getting me signed up for adodption of this Standard is as follows.
Raiders of the Lost ark deleted scenes or uncut version.
Total Recall uncut
Conan the Barbarian uncut.
American Werewolf in London uncut.
Star Wars Originals and a revised Special Edition.
Lord of thr Rings Deleted Scenes.
Some other things butvthis would be my desire.
This would make me buy in on that format more so than the content being a different type HDR and 4K but that I could see some things I never seen before rather than it was just incrementally better. I just don’t feel any insatiable desire unless some of this stuff starts to crop up.
It’s already happened if you want to watch 4k HDR content you need a device capable of displaying it.
A normal 1080p HD screen can not downscale this you need to be able to take and handle the signal. thus the transmitter and reciever need to be of 4K HDR standard for which there are already different types of HDR.
It’s like trying to put a HD signal on an old CRT monitor. It won’t work because it is a different standard.
Because these things have different standards because they can do different things what older standards could not. A new product range is created and a set of standards are developed hut there was a lot of complication of 4K and what would be coupled with that on the extra pins of HDMI 2.0 or DVI. HDR won over HFR and HDMI with 2.0 ethernet probably also wins over HDMI 2.0 with return audio. The new standard means you have to buy the product range for the next best thing. I did not really care for having 4k screen or HDR it was like i got that for nothing because i simply wanted a larger screen. But I have it and the hope is from screen manufacturers perspective that i will buy into 4k HDR standard.
If you have a product to sell and It does not fit any particular old standard but a new one must be created for it. A association will help with Law, due dilligence and contracts and so on. They probably had very little to do with deciding HDMI 2.0 would carry HDR though on the spare pins.
You want to sell your product and hunt for big contracts you pay for the access via an association. The product itself could be made in China, Japan or South Korea. The sssociation will help meet standards, client access and when contract is one they tske another cut with the expert lawyers.
Obviously domestic stands and medical standards will be very different also as will military standards. Police and fire service would have slightly lower standards than medical or military but still above domestic.
Caliberate a monitor to somone elses monitor is nonsense.
Sorry, forgot to mention this in my last post:
Calibrating a monitor to someone elses’ monitor IS nonsense. Calibration is done to an external set of standards, a studio doesn’t have a particular monitor they’re trying to match. They use tools like the Spyder 5.
A list of image sets for calibration and clear instructions can get you good results too, though. Again, not hitting absolute perfection is not an excuse for not trying at all.
Also, SMPTE was founded in 1916. Their standards influenced the manufacturing process of the film Star Wars was shot on. Their standards have also influenced how cameras are built today, how TVs are built today, how editing programs are coded, the specifications of DCPs projected in theaters, the specifications of TV broadcast since TV’s birth, etc.
If you think these standards are bunk, I’d like to know why and what the science would be behind a new standard.
A television can be calibrated such that no amount of color correction could make a source look correct. If I shifted the hue on a TV so that the green subpixels aren’t on, you can boost green in your source file all day and still not see an iota of it on the screen. At the end of the day, the monitor/tv is the one physically emitting light towards your eyes, not the source media.
This is a an association body. It will cost a lot of money to be an associate and what that grants you access to clients who work within that association.
It’s another way of shrugging off competition from smaller companies. Just because they have standards does not mean the actual association or even members of that association created those standards. They merely recognise a set standard and to be a member and put an SMPTE stamp on your company will also mean you have to meet that standard no doubt.
They are also part of drug company imaging devices big pharma contracts.
There is not anything wrong with an association body per se but like I said, this is a way of shutting out smaller competitive companys out of contracts because they can not afford the membership fees of being part of the association. And contracts are probably rarely given outside SMPTE membership in certain spheres of influence.
Not all bad but not all good either totally un-competitive though.
$13,500 dollars good client access or $20,000 for better client access per year.
Calibrating my monitor from a hotel room miles away from my monitor is not possible.
What do you think about stop trolling this thread until you have gone home?
Excuse me but I have not been trolling anyone… You assumed not I.
Calibrating my monitor from a hotel room miles away from my monitor is not possible.
To address the green comment, It is probably green contrast and it would also explain why the gout looks a bit dim. Having looked at it previously it was something I noticed and it is fairly safe to assume that I would balance contrast to zero or shape of channels or if particularly dark allow contrast in at the right color.
I’m really sorry to say that but… nobody likes the GOUT shifts that you did.
Because they are horrible.That’s not true. The GOUT adjustment (on page 6) didn’t look that bad. And it isn’t just my opinion, as Dr Dre said that “most of these look good”.
What I don’t understand in your stuff, Ronster, is your idea that the proper way to color correct something would always be “shifting the hue”. It’s never so simple !
Thanks but I am very short of spare time, the only thing I havd really worked out is that there are different types of hue shifts… This means that because I can not do that type of shift in the editor I notmally use I will do this outside the program.
There could be a further tweak there might not be.
I honestly can not say until I find the actual time to look at it again…
I really like the film I really just want to tackle it somehow and however I can to try to get it even a small bit better. Time is the problem right now.
I will re-iterate my draft rule that after any shift it will be assessed if it is shift and it does not rule out any further manipulation, but I don’t want to really over do it because the RGB filter was making me compensate for some color errors the vlc capture will not neccessitate extra tweaks uless it really does need it.
I really want to find a way that it is a process where you touch it as little as possible but nailing down how to do this and finding what makes it tick is not easy. I have not looked at it at all in over a week so no progress further from finding there are different types of hue shifts which I actually never knew.
The doubt I have with regards to the shift rests with R2-D2 more than anything else. He is a big question mark and I fon’t have an answer apart from shift him sparately back.
no I like the way the Gout shifts look. It looks to me much much better than what the gout looks like without any changes.
if everyone hates that shut the thread. I don’t reall give a monkeys if you do or you don’t like it I do though.
But keep sticking with the red faces actors you only have to compare it to ESB or ROTJ to see it is totally wrong let alone any other film.
The very thing you are asking me to do over and over is circumnavigate that problem at a content level and not what it looks like on any particular screen. And I am being attacked for doing things differently. Had enough of the stupid jokers.
you forgot I was trying to shift using wrong type of filters and an image editor.
the only reference I would say I am pleased with is the Gout shifting (11 images) and the planet shot with small deathstar everytging else was exploration and trying to figure it out… So really i have been trying to find out how to fix it.
But if you don’t like the Gout shifts that i did then oh well.
Star wars is just simply bad content though or defunct amunition we keep the gun comparison going.
different guns that fire the same type of ammunition are fine but the batch of ammunition is faulty.
Our screens are all fine but Star Wars looks pretty awful no matter what screen you have. (well I still like it but I know it can be better)
This is more true to the point than saying calibrating my monitor will make star wars look great. Calibrating a gun will make it fire the faulty ammunition. It is the same thing.
Fix the ammunition or content is the answer.
that is actually the point though the content needs to be tailored to display well on numerous devices but we are now moving towards content specifically for say resolution and HDR and HFR and so on. Which is very different than before where it was one version for all displays now it is going towards tailoring content for the type of display.
when you say put 1500 LED panels together they calibrate to one another not what the light in the room is. Because they are individual displays that need to match one another to form a whole image.
That also means yes there is a calibration for the content going up on that 1500 panel wall. The content is calibrated to the display somewhat.
I should also mentiin you would need 1500 panels of the same make and model for it to work properly and match.
4k HDR samsung.
It is a cheaper model though.
the point is anyway if you were working in a studio or something of course everyone would have the same monitor.
If you are doing dual or more projection screens you make sure you have the same make and model to match.
Caliberate a monitor to somone elses monitor is nonsense. I even read a forum on why companies do not calibrate before sending out to customers and how depending on the light in the room all this bollocks. You also have specification to contend with now like HDR color depth resolution and so on.
You calibrate to match for a purpose but in an environment where everyone has a different make / model and specification or type OLEd / LED / LCD / Plasma / projector whatever utterly pointless it is the content that needs to be tailored.
you try calibrating an anti aircraft gun to be more like a machine gun never ever through calibration will you get the 2 things to match.
This is basically the truth.
sorry, just going off to calibrate my colt 45 to be more like my beretta.
Well yeah I beat my head against the wall trying to figure out wtf and why don’t this work properly.
why? My conclusion is a guess but if it works what the hell.
I am not trolling.
Look everything I watch Star wars on, It does not look like other films do.
If we go back to say bullitt for instance the actors and actresses don’t have red or overtly red faces in star wars they do. I could compare star wars to a lot of other films and when you compare star wars to other films it certainly looks to me that the problem is Star Wars not my monitor.
So when i hue shift in VLC it might be slight it might have to be a fair amount it makes it look more like a normal film. I am happy with the result of the shifting primarily to rid the film of the weid facial color and make it sjmilar to other films.
Star Wars stands out as having a color shift problem compared to other films in a quite serious way. It is’nt to say it does not happen in other films also as I have already stated but Star Wars has a pretty severe case of it and correcting for that makes it feel much more normal and not so strange.
I like the simplicity of the handling it in such a way and I also think the result is good, I personally really like the result.
Green / Cyan in the shadow seems to be a trait I am noticing about the film. But to be honest I am not looking at it at all right now as I have been doing quite a big job this week.
Yes, but the problem here is:
- Star Wars has many transfers, each with their own unique characteristics, and each of them not an accurate representation of how the film looked in cinemas. So, to state Star Wars in general has a hue shift problem is a rather bold claim.
- The VLC filter is about as crude as it gets. You attempt to fix one issue, and a dozen others pop up. Just adding more green to the film solely based skin tones, which can vary greatly from person to person is a mistake. Just because skin tones may be overly red, doesn’t mean all other tones are red shifted as well. In fact the opposite may be true, oranges may come out more red in a transfer, whilst yellows may become more green. A correction that just adds green will seemingly improve the skin tones, whilst worsening color shifts in other areas of the frame.
- Some of the issues you raise may have nothing to do with hue, but with contrast or saturation.
I agree with you pretty much.
I do agree it is crude yes, at the endbof the day that will be the next part deciphering what is shifted and what is not.
the 4 rules I quoted earlier.
hue shift
Color change
hue shift and color change
treat as correct no change
so i will shift the lot where weird skin tones appear and make that assesment.
If you take for instance where the are going in the deathstar lift with chewie to the detention area. This feels like weird color to it but it’s not shifted I don’t think.
I am not trolling.
Look everything I watch Star wars on, It does not look like other films do.
If we go back to say bullitt for instance the actors and actresses don’t have red or overtly red faces in star wars they do. I could compare star wars to a lot of other films and when you compare star wars to other films it certainly looks to me that the problem is Star Wars not my monitor.
So when i hue shift in VLC it might be slight it might have to be a fair amount it makes it look more like a normal film. I am happy with the result of the shifting primarily to rid the film of the weid facial color and make it sjmilar to other films.
Star Wars stands out as having a color shift problem compared to other films in a quite serious way. It is’nt to say it does not happen in other films also as I have already stated but Star Wars has a pretty severe case of it and correcting for that makes it feel much more normal and not so strange.
I like the simplicity of the handling it in such a way and I also think the result is good, I personally really like the result.
Green / Cyan in the shadow seems to be a trait I am noticing about the film. But to be honest I am not looking at it at all right now as I have been doing quite a big job this week.
