Ronster

cool, I am not sure if the bene-gesserit reverend mother does the trip to Caladan with the help of the guild as it is implied that this will be done in secret. The tip off was from listening in with her powers from outside the room.

This seems to be an independant act on behalf of their faction to test Paul in secret unbeknowst to the emperor and the space guild.

So this trip would be clandestine I feel similar to the Guild visiting Kaitain.

So they must have secret Navigators and perhaps this is where the 2nd stage navigator would have featured perhaps.

If they wanted him dead perhaps caution was urged or obviously some sort of plot point is amiss wether it was done in knowledge of the guild or not

Yeah i can imagine this as a space guild ship. It would be good to have that as the ship that lands on Kaitain but it would need quite a bit of manipulation. Perhaps it would be beneficial to replace Kaitain empetors Palace also. But to keep the forground miniature shot and modify the underside to contain the dome. The Hammerhead part would be off screen.

It would make for much better establishing shots far more sci-fi and fantastical. It actually looks sinilar to the cocept art for the dropship.

The “Nell” model looks like it could be a fremen prototype attack ship crafted from remains of harvesters they had destroyed. It also resemble the still suits.

it’s weird and uncanny how alot of those models could be attached to various factions by their design.

I think it would possibly propel Dune to greater heights indeed.

like you say space guild has monopoly but the factions need small attack fighters.

If that big ship was introduced in suvh a way as to show the hammer head then the body and then the big square hole you could cut straight to the dropship without any modification at all. Showing the square hole would symbolise where the drop ship might fit. or something like that.

4throck said:

Thanks again for the great suggestions.
I was thinking of having parts of the princess narration on Paul’s visions.
I’d like to avoid narration at all if possible. I think the story is clear enough if you order the scenes logically.

I suggest this sequence:

» the Prophecy
» Paul at Caladan. No film book, just introduce his training, the Atreides staff and let him have the conversation with the Duke.
» Secret Report within the Guild and the Emperor.
» Paul’s test by the reverend mother

This is very self contained and avoids introducing many places and characters at once.

Interesting different order…

The first shot of the film was meant to be seeing the Space Guild dropship through a water drop… Sounds again quite abstract. I had a quick flick through the TV edit and what it makes apparent that Missing scene cards for Special effects were filled with existing material from other Parts of the film.

Although I don’t neccesarily think they are needed it would be interesting to visually finish off some of what was planned.

If you are going from Prophecy to Caladan then make good use of Water being the means to transition to Caladan.

You know here is a radical idea… Use Battle Beyond the Stars Ships shots which have been in about 5 films in Dune!

Get Rid of the ornithopter and have this be the Ship they ride out to the Desert to see spice Production.

this looks more atreides by design I would opt this replace the Ornithopter

Then infuse it with a Battle of these which destroy the carry all but There is a small battle.

Have the Reverend Mother fly to Caladan in this ship.

Basically keep most of the Original Ships but expand it into a fully fledged Space Opera where possible. More Space shots more action less psychological and more fun.

More Brian Eno Music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6rmhXQUPJc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfZxZmbbWI8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_LIrCaWSo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHPc_lFo_BQ

Weave some of this in also perhaps

https://youtu.be/rzHw3W_7Ft8?t=1796

A lot of this information is repeated from the Princess Irulian Naration, So you could tag this 2nd Intro on the end of the other in a way so that you cover all the information but leave the bit out about the Benegesserit and Quizat Haderach. Because this other Intro introduces the Fremen Earlier but also talks of there Vision of the Prophecy.

So I would go with we know of Choam and the emperor and that they are the secret but then move straight on to the prophecy cutting out we know of the Benegesserit and leave all that information to Princess Irulian.

But yes striking Images is what is needed and Big powerful visuals. When you Cut to The Fremen Lady And see she has Blue eyes it will be cool you hear her voice and then are surprised by her difference in appearance.

This would act then as more of an intro for what is to come rather than simply information it set’s up the film for having “The Sight” or being able to see the future before it happens.

In the DVD Documentary they Have Rolling Shot of Sand 50% opaque over a Starfield… This is obviously one of the Missing Shots how you convey the Sand is like the Stars. Play with Transparancy and Opaque Visuals with Stars and the Desert.

yep and there are 2 ways of looking at it.

not color graded and color graded. That shot of the 2 suns and this one bear a resemblance outside the rest of the footage.

I don’t mind how you approach it but just for the record the sky is meant to be purple. I deliberated between yellow and red or purple and blue.

But it is one of those things even the special edition messed up. So no issues with what you do but all evidence points to it is meant to be purple if it is’nt then it is probably a mistake.

You can handle it however you like and copy the ungraded shot or grade it like the rest. But the Special edition is closer but it is not purple like it sjould be.

It is still up for grabds and I like that.

Well I would say it needs to be Abstract. Blend the Speech with the Desert it is awful looking footage…

Show the Harvesters even if you re-use footage and flip it or something… Just have the Audio mixed with the Desert. Have the dual moons deleted shot off the trailer. Find Aerial Desert Footage sand blowing in the wind when she is talking about we are the secret say. Even use the mini-series perhaps show movement under the sand tease the worms with Worm sign and add a crack of Thunder.

A huge Sandstorm would also work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAEi9s9bEpY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhsD6kLYIMM

Feel the Power and the magnitude of what is being said.

Rouse the viewer and show them this Universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhP_9bFQvjg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQQRaYnIyK8

A few more try to convey sand is like stars in the universe with the sandstorm show folding space match this together the sand like the stars.

I think try to make a matte shot or something… Like this.

I am sad this freaky guy (2nd Stage Navigator) never made it in to the film… I wonder where he was supposed to feature.

Yeah not Bad I think as you say inter-cutting images with the Speech would work Well.

You need to have something that visualizes what the Choam company is also.

If you are about to attempt Binary Sunset shot… I will tip you off look at Puggo Grande 😉 That is for Luke Leaving the Hut.

For the Dual Sun shot well… I would trust the Gout over any other on that one but do what you like.

One more tip off… I’m being good to you 😃

cup of tea

Could do… One of the things that bother me is the whole sequence is out of order when Paul and Jessica fly over the desert when cutting back to Yueh and the duke bites down on the tooth.

It’s not a major thing but Spicediver has it slightly in wrong order and that part does not make sense. Otherwise the structure is solid as a rock.

I would definitely keep rain on Arakis.

Sorry wanted to link to this post…

Just having a quick play with color.

Guess at what shot was meant to look like

Original version

Pretty big difference and I think even if it meant fixing up the washed out effects through grading it better, it would be worth doing something like this to unlock the potential some of the shots already have which are sorely lacking vibrancy.

Would make for a very interesting color grade project for the special effects shots just to bring those up a notch would propel the film towards a much more enjoyable experience. It looks far less like a cardboard cut out now also. Forgive youtube screen grab it was only a quick test.

One more guess

Original

Doing this sort of process would not perform a miracle but I do think it’s exactly what it needs. It can look and feel much better than it does.

guess

Original

guess

original

The last 2 space shots are nowhere near as bad IMO

Missing Matte Element???

There is meant to be flames coming out the top of the tower thing…

I also have the story Book with the Caladan Matte painting in it…

But yeah it would be good to fix these up a bit remove internal monologue entirely apart from where absolutely needed and restore or revamp the special effects. Missing Laser Bolts in the Battle…

Spicedivers version is excellent but it is also a bit flabby in places.

We need the shots of Rabaan in the Bath tub and Sting having a knife fight when he comes out that mist shower thing then I think we pretty much have most of the film bar before re-shoots.

also this matte shot should be restored.

https://youtu.be/KwPTIEWTYEI?t=66

a while ago it surfaced about re-integrating shots from Firefox Laserdisc Game back into the Movie.

The US Version is also Longer so could make an Extra extended Edit whilst preserving the footage from the game also.

This is also John Dykstra effects well some small snippets so it would be worth an SD effort to preserve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo936LOTNtU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ53K_DXUVk

I think the 3rd Stage edition and the Spicediver Redux version are both good.

I would probably trim back on some of the Spicediver edits but remove even more inner thought dialogue. Improve some effects if possible.

I wish that all of the footage was available but it is not. I really like the film though.

Read through some of the scripts on dune info it is interesting.

The Whole Binary Sunset Shot has been doing my head in again, and I make up my mind about it and then I find myself throwing my thoughts on it into the bin and trying to look at it again… It’s a frustrating set of shots and it does not sit right and I remember it looking better… I came across an image today and it hit me and struck a chord in my brain and it also looks quite similar to your version you have in SWDESP 2.7

Now this is not the most HQ image but it has detail in it that is not pronounced anymore… Look across the Horizon and the Whispy White into the Purple. You Can see the Color of the Bushes are Green the Sand is still quite yellow on the mound but a muted pink on the sand in the foreground. I have no idea what version this image is from but I do seem to remember it this way and I think that sort of whispy highlight on the horizon is a big part of what is missing from the shot. You can see that feint whisp there in your version but it is nowhere near as pronounced as in this image. Also note the top sun has a Pinkish Red corona.

But it is quite similar to what you have in version 2.7 but it is a bit different. Do you think there is anything in it? My opinion is this is important to getting this shot that bit better.

I could not personally get that White Horizon line to be pronounced as it is in the image with your version.

Your Version. If somone could do a color match that would be great just to see what it would come out like in HD.

Rough Manual Match Highlights on the Horizon nowhere to be found cannot pull it out… It’s gone sadly unless it can be pulled out with a luminosity curve?

Based off the other image this one might be more like this…That is a guess based on Pink and Orange.

Long have I pondered the Binary Sunset shot in Star Wars… Here is my definitive Take on what happened and a Color Scheme and a DIY Kit of Matte and Mock up.

This is a sky and Sand Replacement Matte.

Color Scheme for twin suns and fixed Brighter Sun

Mock up of Final Composite. Looks as though the twin suns shots was meant to be integrated into the Shot with Luke. The Scale of the Hill and the Clouds would be correct and this is a color scheme that I also feel makes sense. I think they may have struggled to integrate the twin suns into the live action so It became just plant a fake sun in the shot rather than actually use the Matte shot integrated.

I hope you like it but this shot is now finally settled in my mind.

Scaled different but definitely better bigger or Larger suns than the Original

Reference

Docking Bay 327 Replacement Matte

4throck said:

Yes, those shots are from Jedi.
You can see Luke walking behind Vader on this shot:
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/d/d7/Vader_leaving_Cloud_City.png/revision/latest?cb=20130324062628

Look here for more info: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases

Unless you Serious never noticed that !!!

Ok Apart from that one but all the rest some have footage in them from ROTJ and the Shuttle shots could be used to expand upon spaceship shots of which there are very little until the end of the film.

I always felt one of the things about ROTJ was it’s lack of Spaceship shots or that it re-used footage on a few occasions also like The Luke in the x-wing shot from ESB.

It was pretty stale until we got towards the end of the film… But it could have done with a few original shots of Space ships for the first half , if it could of done and the whole reaching Endor Part. Leaving Tattooine and the Fleet shot are good but there really is nothing outside of this. Even the opening shot was a rehash from Star Wars so yeah that is what I mean and it looks like that is what the shuttle shots were meant for and not so much Vader going to his Star Destroyer which was pretty lame.

INVAR said:

I know this personal wish is probably a ridiculous question to even suggest and probably even more ridiculous to even make happen - but hey, Ronster tends to rub off on you after awhile.

Best regards.

Why is the shot from Empire Strikes Back of the Shuttle approaching the executor in Return of the Jedi Lobby Cards? Whoops saw it has Empire Strikes Back there now oh no!

My Conclusion when I saw this is that the Shuttle was actually Tydirium… Or it could be?

And I suppose the Shot of the Imperial Shuttle Leaving Bespin was actually meant to be with Luke on board leaving Endor.

So Rub off on that 😃

But the Whole Special edition shots at the end of Empire Strikes back feel like they belong in Return of the Jedi I think.

benduwan said:

i´d like to know where those 2 scenes are from?

https://picload.org/view/dciooaco/2019-01-15at17-39-38.png.html

https://picload.org/view/dciooacl/2019-01-15at17-34-52.png.html

don´t say jambe davdar and his trilogy…😉

Special FX Empire Strikes Back Laserdisc documentary I think.

snooker said:

More Disney-styled sabers:

https://streamable.com/s2z9b

Well you just showed me where that shot goes… But I have got it to a point where it makes complete sense now as in the Backgrounds stay the same and the orientation is correct but it is a bit shorter.

The Trade off being it can have many re-used takes and make little sense (Original edit)

it can be shorter in a different order and make complete sense.

So i have got it there pretty much now… Why not do the rotoscope for the alternate take? Looks like you have the ability to do it and the software…

Only 4 seconds…

I am sure there would be 100’s of people who would like to have those shots of Obiwan stumble and Vader Vicously swinging the saber available in finished form.

RogueLeader said:

So you used alternate takes for that? Pretty interesting.

One thing I noticed though, you said you flipped shots when necessary, but I noticed a few shots of Obi-Wan around the 40-50 sec mark breaking the 180. For one shot he is on one side of the frame and then in the next he’s on the other side. Also, when Vader says, “You should not have come back.” That shot is also on the opposite side of the generally established 180. Is this intentional to make the duel feel more chaotic?

I noticed how you have him do that spin to fake his movement to the opposite side to Vader and I think that works.
But I personally think you should flip those shots to match the 180. If you flipped them for continuity, I wouldn’t worry about it, because your audience would notice the 180 break before they would notice someone’s hands positioned on their lightsaber differently or the buttons on Vader’s chestbox being on the wrong side. Besides, this version still has a continuity error, with the saber mark on the wall being visible before Vader ever hits the wall.

Also, I like the use of some of the new saber sounds, but there are some I think that are a little too much. There is one that you use a few times that sounds like someone dipping hot metal into water, or sorta like a tire screeching. Don’t know how else to describe it but I feel like it doesn’t fit. Maybe it is just me and its because I know they weren’t there originally, so probably not a big deal.

Also, I noticed you used a saber ignition sound at one point in the middle of the fight, I actually think it is the sound specifically used for Vader’s saber, which I was going to suggest you use instead of the more generic saber ignitions used for Obi and Luke. If you go back and watch the Bespin duel you can hear the difference between Luke’s and Vader’s.

Anyway, just a couple of thoughts.

Snooker, I can get it was a pain to track. Still not perfect but it definitely looks more like the ST style of the blade.

Honestly, I really like how Luke’s saber seemed more Cyan than Blue in the first movie. It kind of differentiated it from all the other blue sabers. But if you were to try to make the blade consistent through all the films, it would be easier to make that cyan to blue rather than the opposite, since it is blue more.

Yeah I noticed that also on the “you should not have come back” feels a bit off off but vader is correct as in he should be flopped so it might be that I missed something there. It could be Kenobi is incorrect or we may have another missing shot or rearrangement. Or if I have not missed anything and this was how it was shot and because it feels a small bit dizzy as we do this 180 quite a few times this was perhaps the reason for flipping the shots in the duel. Potentially you could flip Vaders chest plate and keep him the same perhaps as an alternative but that is perhaps cheating.

The sound effects were more a demonstration that actually call that final but i think the Vader igniting sound may very well be part of the original mix.

Yeah just having some fun but also with a mind to restore stuff that was cut or enhance but I want to keep it retro and the mindset to not be flashy…

I found the Decal of the Falcon by searching under millennium falcon wire frame but I left it in the mock up without anything touching it so it could be pinched from the image if someone decided to do a targeting animation just for fun.

Yes that Alderaan Matte is too turqoise or Cyan but I have to figure out how I can make the illusion the planet is turning with the 2D image by enlarging and scrolling it off a 2D matte So I will go back to it at some point to try and re-create the orbit shot.

there is a potential way to do the Hyperspace shot without having to roto-scope by simply making a matte and Lumakey in from black on the viewscreen matte.

The Viewscreen Planet shot of Alderaan just really benefits from the star field going in the opposite direction to the planet, it totally transforms it into making 3D sense.

The escape pod was made from Elipse Wipes animated but the escape pod also need it’s duped frames deleted and re-timed to fit the ring animation and also the Booster matte element was restored. It was a lot of work that one but I wanted to do it for ages.

I Have been looking at The Vader and Obi-Wan Duel tonight and have re-edited it going to do audio now but there is a really nice alternative take that actually enhances the Lightsaber Duel along with fixing the scene order and flipping shots for continuity it works quite a bit better. I tried to rotoscope it myself but I will leave it here for more talented people to roto-scope the lightsaber for the 4 seconds or so on the alternate take. It very much should be part of the film though, and it’s brilliant to see it improve without gimmicks or tricks just straight forward editing. I want people to see it in action 😃

Actually I am pretty shocked It’s never been done before now.

Ok Here is Obi-Wan Vs Vader Edit and Sound effects.

https://vimeo.com/311794681

Enjoy!

The Principle was put it in the right order makes the sound work with any rearrangement and the Alternate Take. It’s not that different but it is a bit better overall. The Alternate Take Actually Feels Like an Extension but it is not you just get better content and Camera Angles and quicker cuts.

As far as the Sound goes I wanted to Hear what it would be like if every time the Lightsabers touched there would be a sound to accompany the Flashes animations and accent those with audio. I also added the missing ignition sound effect for Vader Igniting off camera which you can hear the Hum start but the ignition sound effect is missing.

Been Creating some effects shots.

Death Star Orbiting Alderaan Based on Story Book Concept and Orientation. Could not Figure out How to Scoll the planet Matte yet.

Animated and Corrected Star Field going in wrong Direction Added Target Display for Death Star Viewscreen.

Fixed The Escape Pod Launch.

Been Fun doing Animation But the Escape Pod was a bit of a nightmare to get it done. This needs to be flipped also the escape Pod shot as per Joe Johnston Design.

You could also potentially Smuggle Wicket on the Death Star also with the Bobba Fett Scene can’t remember the name of the Program day in the life of an Ewok or something?!?

But I think what you have done there is really good!

Hold on a minute… If you Put Wicket being shot at During the Bunker Shootout Deleted Scene from ROTJ it may very well be the impetus to go and get the Guns…😃

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR-ne3lCfSU

Bunker Scene…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT-ZsR2P8dU

Could be pretty Tough But it might be possible to show Wicket Being Shot At and then as If Han Is Saving him… Or Wicket was sent forward as a diversion.

BandobrasTuk said:

Awesome List!
Thanks at all.
So sad that some YT-Clips are not available anymore.

I think I Have pretty much all of them If needed.

521MB