Ronster

It’s strange that one of the most popular films ever you can’t see the original version in any way in HD as you say without having to resort to shady methods, bootlegs and fan attempts all be it well done fan attempts with a passion.

I think McClunky kind of sums up how it is “Clunky” being the operative word that sticks.

I don’t mind small touch ups and some CGI ships to be honest redo compositing but I am totally against on the Whole the complete CGI scenes by and Large.

I don’t mind some of the new digital Matte paintings either I can see Valid reasons behind many changes made.

I think with Star Wars 1977 George should compromise on this… I can see many reasons for and against changes but at the end of the day Jabba and crap CGI in mos-eisly must go… Nothing else is all that bad but a few less digital shots during the death star battle would be welcome as would uncensor gun battles as in the original theatrical. Original Dianogo too would be nice. If we could get George to change his mind then we will see it somewhat “Saved”

Empire is Alright as a Special Edition mostly least damage done.

Return of the Jedi should be reverted in many spots where it is extremely harmful.

Let us take the CGI dewbacks in Star Wars for instance. George sat there looking at the close up shot with the creature effects and thought “I really like that…But I want it to be in the frame in the background I will CGI it in rather than use this shot but I will base it off this original shot” but what he should of done was say “I really like that shot I will restore it to the film” There would not be half as many complaints as we have about this film now. It would just be extra footage shot at the time restored to the film end of story.

It needs to feel at least partially of it’s time even if it has some updates done to it. I am on Georges side a pinch but he just went to far and ruined the vibe with a lot of the CGI stuff.

On this new box set here are the things I think would be good to include…

All Rouge One Deleted scenes. Or alternate Rough Cut.

Lando Pull Luke across the Falcon from ESB.

Missing Shoot out scenes after Slave 1 departs ESB.

Stormtrooper riding on original creature effects Dewback Star Wars Lobby Card.

Original camera Mos Eisley shots of Landspeeders going through the checkpoints and so on Star Wars.

Sith Lord Conference Room Extended scene Star Wars

Can’t think of any more at the moment.

you adding the European cut footage of the conversation in the car?

I like this film.

Booman said:

John Doom said:

Colors still look unnatural to me, at times. 😄 And what’s with this purple-green-orange abomination!?
https://thedigitalbits.com/images/articles/starwars4k_2019/sw4-sc149.sh24-missing-y-wing.jpg

Good god, that’s gotta be one of the most terrible looking frames from the 19SE I’ve seen so far. It kills me to think someone at Disney/Lucasfilm saw that and decided “yeah, looks good enough”.

I think that is actually Correct the Jump suits are Orange the original Never looked right. The Purple is wrong though yes…

You could argue that you should recreate it looking the way it did but It was a totally different color in many shots due to the Blue Screen Compositing.

When they start adding the Missing Blue Lights and so on from the Falcon cockpit It will be a nice change the Falcon interiors and cockpit interiors always lost Color.

I think now that we have been told the Original Films will never come out again… Can there be a compromise on this that we get semi specialized editions with the Really Un-likeable stuff removed?

It can be more fun to get it “Right” than to radically revise on most cases.

Thanks for showing the new changes, It is quite a bit better Colorwise the 4K 2019 version overall.

This one stood out as still needs fixing color wise though.

Somehow though 2004 seems the most correct for the Red here though.

Red is all over the shop 😃

Cheers, I think with the opening like this and a few other tweaks here and there could pave the way for a slightly better Dune than even the Spicediver version.

Let’s wait and see if we get any more of that missing material.

Thanks,

I planned to polish it more and use a better video source but work got in the way…

It is not finished basically but the ideas are there.

There is still a bit to do few more shots… I agree the text is too fast.

The following contains spoilers from The Mandalorian…

Comparison…

I think perhaps the TV series might win a bit… But it’s not to late. I said about the color of the haze > around the planet before and it looked a bit much on your still perhaps but I will leave it up to you.

I think the more blue / purple is the way to go personally though. Actually the turqoise color comes under the >purple blue if the TV series is anything to go by.

Planet has less contrast more whispy too and a bit different tint.

Here is a Demo of the opening Edit… Ran out of time to work on it at the momment Sorry for that…

https://vimeo.com/377738618

Perhaps just rotoscope the back middle section of the x-wing of the gout put this under your SE rotoscoped x-wing then Luma key through blurred detail or try to sharpen in?

What is the 97 SE like? Probably not as bad I would think? Or one of the old laserdiscs?

The trees you could put the shadow detail in on your background plate perhaps again luma Keying it through the black areas with no detail? You probably need to do to separate sections because the x-wing covers the painting…

All the shadow detail will add up though there is a lot missing in the dark areas so it will be noticeable.

If you post the background plate I can try and do that but the x-wing yeah you need to find a version that has more detail than bluray

Otherwise you could find a image from a scale model or replica and track that in obvioudly Luma key again you want to keep as much the original as possible…

Here I am talking about trying to get detail out of the 2006 DVD version and add it to the Blu-Ray…

https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/1308377/action/topic#1308377

This is pretty absurd actually if you break it down… But for Star Wars it is totally relevant. Crushed Blacks are the new digital Disney+ versions HDR? and still have crushed Blacks in ESB? This would be ridiculous to sell a transfer like this claimimng it was HDR yet has many scenes with lots of Shadow Detail missing…

Anyway this is not something techno babble all I really want to say is. I don’t mind something looking different as long as it generally looks better.

I don’t care if someone revises something slightly as long as it is overall better.

But I call these things the “Black holes” in Star Wars where it all goes black in parts of the image sometimes.

Many old films had not as much contrast as films do today… And Contrast is such a big part of getting an old film right. There is no harm in making something pop detail a bit more but not at the expense of losing the detail in the shadow areas.

Way Over saturating the color of Gritty Grindhouse or Horror Films is another real no no for me… I can’t stand it when a film looks good de-saturated and really suits it and then some joker ramps up the saturation making it happier losing the grit and darker feel of a movie.

In some exceptions there are films with low color that need more, but most often than not that is the real big big no no when they mess with these films. And silly tinting also as mentioned.

I did this for you.

Basically I will talk you through what I did.

Took An Image that had good detail on the Right Hand side and Altered Contrast Levels and Luminence

Put Part of the Missing part of the Matte Painting on the top Left Corner

Found another image that had more detail in the Left and then put this detail in also.

Hue shifted Red and Magenta to fix the Problem of Red being in the Wrong Shade as the x-wing markings were totally off base of what they should look like. Actually it applys to the whole image not just the x-wing as you can see there is more red in the shadow now of the roots and stuff.

Looked for Pure Black patches on the x-wing and colored them in erasing Pure black and keeping shadow Color Consistant where the detail is totally gone. I also took some Detail from the Right around the engines and flipped it.

I hope this helps you get it better still but It’s very much a case of the Luminence or exposure is all wrong and the x-wing should be Dark against Bright Light in the Background. 😃

The x-wing I think could still use the Grey sort of detail from the GOUT even if Blurred better than Pitch Black.

In the GOUT the painting has been altered for the Special edition on the top left so the background has been changed also… It looks like an insert painted part to join and then a part is missing on the far left of the frame in all versions…

here is an example although I am not 100% lined up but for a example it shows you X-wing and trees mixed together (on the top bottom SE) the special edition black keyed out to recieve the black shadow detail from the GOUT. I would use this for the x-wing and the trees to get more detail…

Why not Lumakey key out the black / the crushed detail on the xwing and bring in the detail from the gout?

The whole back section of the x-wing still has lots of detail missing…

Then you can bring the conrast up on the overall video to where it should be.

The Gout is too dark but SE way overbright atmosphere has been lost. Mimic the Gout for the contrast but brighten a bit not the SE mega brightness.

https://images.app.goo.gl/EUyNhqJS8LaJ3Cob9

Sorry but not sure what the other change is?

oojason said:

doubleofive said:

Holy crap, I did Greedo Shot First.

https://twitter.com/StarWarsVisComp/status/1168554173136166913

Frame by frame comparisons, GIF’s, the whole nine yards. I conclude that the “new” shot is based on a wide shot of Han shooting Greedo. They took the clarifying shot Lucas claims didn’t exist in the 70’s and changed it so Greedo shoots (at different times with different effects). It’s a fun read, hopefully.

A cracking read - thank you doubleofive 😃
 

Lucas really does ‘Shoot Himself In The Foot First - And Then Again And Again And…’ with some of his decisions - and claims - over the years!

(the above slogan may need some further work for it to catch on… 😉)

 

Edit: That is really a cracking piece mate - I hope you consider adding it as a separate article on your blog / site too? - without the constricting formatting and character limitations of twitter.
 

Is there any truth to the censorship reasoning behind this particular shot that Greedo shooting first softens the scene and the ability to then see Han shoot is granted or in defense was allowed.

This adds up with the other cut’s to violence which at the end of the day avoiding PG is what it is all about?

Star wars got the U rating so it was all about keeping that… 97 looks so much better Greedo the right color but the explosion at least is not pink in the new version they sorted that issue.

If we could handle this stuff as 4 or 5 year olds in my case just let Lucus restore the wide shot and the other stuff and let him keep the U rating. Seems stupid to clamp down in 97.

I’ll dare George Lucus to untangle every gunfight and release unrated theatrical versions that are slightly more graphic versions of the original films and serve those up instead of the originals… I’d take that even over the originals actually.

The only way around the censorship stuff back in the 70’s and early 80’s was to cut and re-arrange the footage so it looked like people were not entirely shooting at each other or distract and confuse what is happening but allow it in a nonsensical form because there was no other way around and it still needed to be there but the original form of portrayed violence had to be “confused” to soften it.

indeed the thread has moved on…

Garindin is a spy for hire he is an informant for whomever wishes to pay for information he has gained. I agree he is contacting the empire.

The presence of the Gas Mask character is enough that he could of informed Jabba about Greedo’s death in the Cantina so there is no need to alter Garindin at all.

We are in the stage of simply advocating a cut to Jabba Raising the Bounty on Han straight after the Cantina scene “Sorry about the mess…” and Bobba Fett knodding at Jabba instead of at Princess Leia in a Bounty Hunter outfit. This Also helps because you don’t have to find total Puppet lip synch for Jabba’s Dialogue so it will really help make that possible too.

4throck said:

This is a good idea.
But I’d use Jabba’s dialog from the SE scene and add the shot of Jango in Jabba’s palace.
I’d also cut to Jabba after Han shoots Greedo. Jabba knows about his somehow, and sends Jango to pressure Solo one last time. Latter on we show Jango + thugs by the falcon (ending of the SE scene). Perhaps keeping of Solo’s dialog in the distance as Luke arrives.

So it’s the same story as the SE, but with no CGI 😁. Also a nice introduction to Jango.

Bobba fett or Jango fett?

Yeah i kind of sort of thought just have Jabba know greedo is shot and raise the Bounty on him. As what does happen is as soon as he does go near a civilised system he does indeed get caught.

But it might work to have the tail end of the scene from the special edition even better if you could add fett saying something although because of the whole reshoot and greedo in the cantina was the actual replacement for the Jabba scene the special edition kind of messes this up because greedo is his own character and the other guy in the cantina with the Gas mask is working with him…

So yeah as nice as it would be to extend it I think just trying to keep it simple… Showing Bobba fett knodding though would be excellent as Jabba raises the Bounty on Solo I agree. I think this really does set up ESB and ROTJ very well 😃

It would be better continued on the death star with the Bobba fett Revenge of the Ewok scene… Bobba fett shoots at Han as he Runs away from the blaster fire.

Or he could be simply eluded to as the one who planted the homing beacon before / after the falcon takes off… Just stepping out to watch them depart you then know something sinister is afoot. It’s all planned. Tarkin chimes in later about the homing beacon so it could unfold quite well with no need for action from Bobba Fett just prowling at this momment he has been bought out by the empire.

They let them escape so there is total licence that Bobba fett would not disintergrate or capture Han here

Potentially because the Hanger shoot out the same stormtrooper dies 3 times… Bobba fett could be brought in as the next adversary as Vader is trapped behind the doors this could time with Ben Kenobi “run luke… run!” As Bobba fett would kill Luke easily at this time and is beyond his skill. This would also set up the duel in ROTJ.

timdiggerm said:

When you say “missing subtitle”… is there any reason to believe there was ever intended to be a subtitle there? Seems to me that the scene totally works great with no subtitle, so the lack of one was probably intentional (and a good decision).

In the wikipedia is that quote… I am assuming that is what he might be saying. It might work better with a subtitle it might not… Have you tried it?

I was merely exploring the posdibility of puppet Jabba in Star Wars rather than CGI one and how this could potentially work honestly have not attempted it at all i have never seen anyone try either.

TavorX said:

I personally, as well, don’t think it’s a necessary thing but perhaps you could have it where you simply hear Jabba talking over that communication device. Save the actual appearance for ROTJ.

Han leaves Cantina a Shot of puppet Jabba “Put a price on Solo so big he won’t be able to go near a Civilised system for the rest of his life”

I think this is simpler and restoring garindins subtitles is better still…Although might swap price for reward

But yeah this was just a thought I had and I don’t think any amount of CGI will look like puppet Jabba

I think that line is the only reason for that scene to exist and it’s not entirely needed but it’s a much better solution to the special edition.

well yes I agree but Jabba is talked about as a character…

You simply are not looking beyond that Jabba could be the one to report the falcon and not Garindin and Garindin is talking to his boss as a henchman.

I don’t agree with shoe horning stuff in but Jabba was meant to be in the film originally.

I think it’s a passable idea and with subtitles Jabba could report the falcon.

Garindin “Greedo is dead and they are getting ready to leave”

Jabba “They are not going anywhere, I will see to that”

It is better than the Special edition version I think anyway

I find this quote if Garindin is solely an imperial informant… “I can tell you where to find them… for a price.” Subtitle is missing this is actually probably a nicer find…

It would be good to find a clever way to insert Jabba though I think this idea has escaped but the missing subtitle is cooler in a way 😃

Ok So let’s do this but Different after Han leaves Cantina a Shot of puppet Jabba “Put a price on Solo so big he won’t be able to go near a Civilised system for the rest of his life” This simply sets up Empire and Jedi in one fell swoop.

An Idea I had was that Jabba could be inserted into star wars in a respectful way…

Garindan talks on the communicator

Cut to Jabba talking back.

Simple and effective.

Any thoughts?

Alien Subtitles perhaps.

As we have already stated without the material being made available it is not possible really to fix it all until made available.

I don’t really want to go the route of putting up stills and texts explaining, no point could have just listed the scenes in a short video or in text like I have done here, no need to watch the film really for that.

The reason for the text opening I am going to do is a substitute for the missing dialogue from Paul’s training on Caladan and to give meaning to the introduction.

The only thing that can not be fixed is Characters missing scenes… If you edit the film properly and correctly it will come in shorter than the TV cut by quite a bit so these scenes listed some of them are very short some of them are full length.

Just noticing the assaination attempt on Paul the shot coming to the Room is Shadout Mapes POV before she opens the door… So the editing is uncombined making two scenes that are in fact only one scene.

The whole Sietch stuff with the Plants and fremen training were condensed between water drops so again it is a montage Alias birth is probably extended montage on the existing shots. In many cases It sounds more than it is when in Reality I see about just over 3 hours movie now with everything in that list when edited properly…

The Main Bulk is The Water of Life Reshoot and the 7 scenes that went deleted.

We can attribute small extensions to montages and some extended dialogue weaved in also but It will only go for about 3 hours… Once the clunkyness is removed it would make way for more meaningful material.

Let’s try and figure out what the 7 scenes were my guess

1. Rabaan in the Bath tub* (Prior to water of Life)
2. Torture of Nefud
3. Gurney attacks Jessica thinking she was the traitor who brought down house Atreides (Prior to Water of Life and reason for taking the water of Life)
4. Alia stuggling to be accepted in the sietch (Prior to water of Life)
5. CHOAM & GUILD REPORTS* (Prior to water of Life)
6. Feyed kills Sandarkar Captain
7. Thuffer does his best to make the Baron nervous on Geidi prime

*Montage with ALia’s Abduction Remember That the emperor is landing during the water of Life sequence and The reverand Mother has her nosebleed on the ship. This Could very well be the exising montage in the film just with some missing material. This is Part of the Water of Life Sequence.

If 1 and 5 are the same scene that just leaves Paul and Chani’s Son’s death or Alternatively Harah’s Childrens Deaths as Paul was the guardian.

The Removal of the sub plot that Jessica was thought to be the traitor caused much of the problems.

Just watched the purist edit of Dune posted recently… There is not much to say about it… It is good in some respects, and it handled a few things well however it is one of those edits that put’s up still images to explain some of the missing scenes which is fine, trouble with that in this edit is that it has missed loads and loads of the missing material practically 3/4 of what I have cited from the script is not present.

It only mentions in this regard in terms of stills

The Bulls Head
Paul is to look after Harah and the 2 children after Jamis is killed
A scene where Harah accepts Paul does not love her like Chani
Fremen training weirding way
Birth of Alia
Rabaan in the Bath tub
Torture of Nefud

It misses out

Extended Dialogue Pauls training
Baron Harkonnen Opening speech
Jessica is thought to be the traitor by Thuffer
The Fremen water sellers outside the palace Dr yueh explaining about them
Duke Leto telling Paul about the plot to make him suspect Jessica as the traitor
Sandworm Filmbook sequence
Death of Liet in the desert (Pre spice mass)
Jessica’s vision of Paul Dead in the Palace
Gurney attacks Jessica thinking she was the traitor who brought down house Atreides
Alia stuggling to be accepted in the sietch
Choam and Guild reports
Feyed kills Sandarkar Captain
Thuffer does his best to make the Baron nervous on Geidi prime
The Wind trap and plants Stilgar shows to Paul in the Sietch
Lights in the cliffs and the Ornithopters taking off to get the Harkonnen Spies
and a lot of individual small shots

I think the point is if you are going to do this type of edit Include all of the material that has been cited in the script as it was based on the concept of Fritz Lang Metropolis re-construction. What scenes would make the final edit is up for contention but surely missing big important sub plots is not really good. Back to the drawing board I feel on this one…

The edit might be based on 7th Draft but the film was already shooting as of the 5th Draft.

It is good… There is perhaps a simpler way there are many shots with similar issues.

Snowspeeder Hanger

Super star destroyer coming out of asteroid field

And i think a few more Luke’s cockpit on Bespin Luke in corridor sneaking around on bespin… Probably more.

If you line up the shot with crushed Black with gout you can Luma key from black the detail back in from the gout through the Black area. Framing is not always the same though…

Not entirely the same problem but detail can be Luma keyed back in through the Black where it is missing.

4throck said:

Ronster said:
So here is a brief text to try and now set up the prologue narration…

Yes, text + narration might work. It’s uncommon but it might work here.

Yeah it is not ideal but because I have edited the opening narration visually and music I am hoping that the text will simply be a preface the music starts on.

I suppose it is a bit like an opening crawl. There really is no other way to hit up the film and explain in a straightforward way what is going on.

So this is the only solution.

Text will appear over Spice gas…

No I am going to do segments of it.

What I plan is to do is first 30 minutes, trip to Arrakis, Harvester destruction by sandworm harkonnen Raid, Ornithopter crash. Water of Life.

And any smalll individual shots like Harkonnen lights in the cliffs, Geidi prime landing field, sandworm filmbook Stuff like this.