Ronster

ray_afraid said:

It really bugs me when a film shows a band playing, but the sounds your hear are from different instruments. I know these aren't real instruments, but when it shows the two SE characters blowing horn-like instruments with no sound to match it just makes it look silly. ... then again, the bad cgi, rubber masks and horrible disco tune are already so silly that I guess you'd might as well go the whole 9 yards. Can't we just cut this out altogether?

(EDIT: this is concerning Jaitea's vid. Didn't download Ronsters)

There just somthing really nostalgic about the scene for me so I will disagree with you... But I completly undrstand your reasons.... I prefer this to Max Rebo and the scene is good for somthing if not just a laugh

Jaitea said:

I did something similar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm0xlipOWuQ&list=UUNC_wFaaHDqdhUaXjqJnfQw&index=57&feature=plcp

J

Yeah I saw that one... I wanted to get rid of all the dancers apart from Oola and the Big Girl with the weird dance moves and focus more on band players a bit more like cantina but with what was there to use.

Lol nice one bingowings like the post...

Ok I re-cut Lapti-Nek.... Link below... Hope you like it, I tried to get rid of the close up dodgy puppet singer and make it work including some SE footage also. Short and sweet and I think it works ok.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ndfubkhrsa1m6ix

Let us know what you think for this idea...

@Ray_afraid... I'm gonna fix that Luke looks a bit unsure wait and see

xhonzi said:

I won't be the first person to say this, but I will be the first person to say this in this thread:

As much as I agree that it makes storytelling sense that Luke was with Yoda since the end of ESB, and that the "now I am a Jedi" and whatnot is well placed ahead of his assault on Jabba's palace...

I think it really wrecks Luke's introduction in the film.  Unknown months have passed since we last saw Luke, and he was pretty messed up.  Regarding the reveal that Vader is/was his father, the audience isn't quite sure if Luke will be the hero we need him to be, or the villain he could be.

When he shows up all in black and uses his Jedi powers to still the gamorreans and mind trick the twi'lek... well... I think we're supposed to be a little unsure of the guy.

Also, who's under the hood isn't revealed for a few moments either.

I also think that the Yoda scene is a nice 2nd act scene structurally, and it doesn't really fit at the very start of the film.

Obviously this noble quest you're all on will at best produce an alternate RotJ, so if the rest of you prefer to sacrifice the film logic for story logic, that's fine... but it probably won't be definitive to me.

At any rate... good luck!

I have been messing around with stuff and I can see your point, because I think it would not hurt to keep it the same as the original but there are some opportunities to be missed done that way but I actually believe it works quite well after the new opening I have done and links to later on when luke completes his light sabre because of the crystal he gives him... Stay tuned and I will have the very start until the briefing up as a rough cut. with additions and some audio fixes too.

Although this does not stick entirely to Darth Enders script, I have got it working and it incorporates alot of ideas onn here.

darth_ender said:

Well, here's my thought, and hopefully it's easier than what you're trying to do:

As the troopers first run in, we simply see a couple shots in their direction and one maybe hits the wall next to them, sending up a big cloud of smoke, then we cut to the next scene.  Seems pretty straightforward to me, no need to make it too complicated.

As for the battling afterwards, the idea is that the troops are now scattered and fleeing, and in their disorganized state the Ewoks take them out.  Perhaps if we sawtroopers in armor running away more (perhaps we can find footage, but more likely we'd have to film it), it might get the idea across better, but that's why the battle continues.  Perhaps it doesn't work, but it seems like a good idea to me.  But hey, I'd rather have a good movie than be right, so if I'm the only one, please let me know, guys.  I'd been hoping to get more feedback on the idea.

Perhaps I'm over analysing it.....

I think it is the point at which it is Lasers going off and smoke.....

I tried to use prision cell from ANH in my rough cut to fix this point to show the troopers firing and chewie firing back and then cut away..... I am only saying that it might work better to just have the trick still be the thing that actually gets them in and the ground battle is wrapped up before the shield bunker blows up as we still have the battle going on after this point at present which is perhaps more realistic.... But does it really work?

I have been thinking about the shield generator scene and the pruposed hot-wire opens the door and although I really like it alot it is a really tough nut to crack as to getting it to work convincingly so I think it could be worth bearing in mind that it should perhaps go back to it's original structure some what and have the bunker deleted scene as they first go in and keep it more Hans trick to capture the Bunker is what eventually got them access not brute force to destroy it.... That way it will flow better and we get the "You Rebel Scum" back too.....

Bingowings said:

In the comic book adaptation there was a small Rebel outpost (which possibly tended to the generator station) which is destroyed by the probe droid to cover it's tracks, the loss was put down to a Wampa attack.

I thought it was a good idea when I was ten but without the Wampa sub-plot the effect would possibly be to bring more attention to itself.

It never made the movie so I guess it was dis-reguarded as irrelevant .... Looks like they had enough problems just doing the battle footage without adding anymore in.... The fact the probe discovers the shield was enough to convey the message and lead to the invasion.

It just fell over on the Invasion, I never thought about it that much until I pulled the footage apart.... Do you think it would help to have distinguishing marks on which group of AT-AT's you were looking at? So you would know where you are in the battle somewhat because it is all snow and blue sky....

darth_ender said:

So we've had several votes come in already.  If you haven't voted, I think I'd like it by Sunday morning so I can tally everything on a day off from school and work.

Still not much happening at the other forum.  I hope it was a good idea (it wasn't mine).  It feels like a lot of the energy was sapped from this thread, which is of course to be expected when ideas are being solidified and everyone has a real life.  I just hope it doesn't die.  I'd really like to see this thing through.

So I may have secured a digital copy of the Star Wars Interactive Video Board Game movie.  The plot, it turns out, revolves around the DSII prior to Endor, and the DSII had a functioning superlaser and was going to destroy some Rebel planet.  It gets sabotaged and leaves it in the state we see it in ROTJ.  This is why I don't give a crap about most EU anymore, because even silly storylines that clearly conflict with the OT are made into some level of canon.  But what I like about it is the fact that David Prowse was filmed aboard a Death Star set and James Earl Jones recorded new lines for it.  I have no idea what one sees or what is said, but maybe even a little something could be useful.  I'm sure the video quality isn't great, being taken from a VHS, but who knows?  The audio could be a treasure trove, however, as the movie is an hour long.

This made me wonder if there is other potentially useful audio just waiting to be exploited.  The first thought that came to me was from the Holiday Special where Vader and Bast are chatting.  "I want the Rebels located and identified [a pause long enough for a natural cut] if it means searching every household in the system."  Possibly useful, though I wouldn't know where to put it.  But I wonder if there are other Jones as Vader recordings that could be useful, or even recordings of other actors.  If the lines are short, we may find something close to what we were planning, such as Mark Hamill saying he needed to do some "thinking."  If you guys can think of any potential sources, let us know."

Probably can only use the audio but might be some good lines in there?

There is not much left to Ponder at the momment, alot has been fleshed out on here already... Although there will be another wave soon I guess.

I am on a steep learning curve trying to learn basic after effects stuff at the momment but I got it working and gradually picking up tricks and trying stuff out.

Bingowings said:

It's never been properly established where in relation to the base the generator is.

Presumably it's some distance away from the base or the Rebels would have detected the probe droid much earlier but also presumably it's near enough to efficiently be serviced by the Rebels.

I think your right that Veers starts off with the pack but then heads for the shield alone... Which would make the count 6.

3 for the ground assault front of Echo Base and 3 for the shield generator... So 2 AT-AT's get taken down on their way to the shield while the ground invasion AT-AT's take no casualties from the trenches and Rebel gun placements

Obviously there is a 3rd front with no AT-AT's at all where Vader lands which we see nothing of

The thing is it's so jumbled that it's like you are watching bits of a planned to be filmed ground assault but your not also.

well do you think Veers AT-AT is part of the 3 driving troops across the ice-field or he is out on his own heading for that target of the shield generator because you can interpret it one way or the other.....

oh sorry have not seen them images yet....

But that for me is the real split.

adywan said:

Jaitea said:

Yeah Monroville & Darth_Neznarf, the foot could be made larger and create more damage, I just used Savmagoett's calculation as a rough guide for how much to scale it up.....It's up to Ady now If he thinks its worth it

J 

I like it. I know its not anywhere near finished but i see you came across the same problem i did when i was attempting it; the foot on screen right just disappears into nowhere. The problem with making things bigger is making the surrounding things react correctly with them. If you want to continue with that shot Jaitea then i would be more than happy to use it if that's ok, full credit going to you of course.

There is something i have been meaning to ask you Jaitea, are you any good with creating CG terrain? There is still a huge problem i haven't been able to overcome and its the Hoth battle cockpit shots. The AT-AT's need replacing especially when there is not only the incorrect number of AT-AT's seen but also that some of them are jumping all over the place, not correctly joined on the surface and always standing still. Now a few years back someone was working on new terrain that i could use, but then just disappeared and stopped answering my emails. I really do still need something like this done. Here is one of his tests:

http://youtu.be/wseA4UHgS8Y

When they made the hoth scene it seems they flung it together regarding AT-AT's footage there is no rhyme nor reason as to their positioning and numbers...

The only thing I can suggest is have distinguishing marks on Veers AT-AT which sort of goes it alone I think... While the other 3 drive the troops back across the ice field....

How many are there? we see 5 at the begining through the binoculars I think? or is it 4....

then 2 bite the dust.... Veers heads for the shield generator then there is a shot of 3 driving the troops across the ice-field that makes 6 but we never see more than 5.

Structurally the whole AT-AT and ground Invasion does not make sense coupled with Vader appearing out of nowhere and not knowing which AT-AT is which... Although I really like the whole battle..... when you break it down it falls apart.

I posted on this already on the wishlist thread... Hope it can be fixed....

However if Veers AT-AT is part of the 3 driving troops away across the Ice-field it is a total of 5

darth_ender said:

Good man, MrInsaneA!  I really appreciate it.  You should have a PM in your inbox shortly.  Let me know if I can help in any way.

Oh this is Good News.... GO MR.INANSEA!!! I am still mocking up some visuals for the begining and will focus finishing it off over the weekend if possible.... It will be for the purposes to display different Ideas and suggestions..... already in the running and amalgamations or augmented suggestions. It will be somewhat crude and I understand that to sell an idea it should be done to perfection but I simply do not have the time to do all this stuff to perfection or have the skill but will do somthing to try and show alot of different ideas incorporated into the first act. And it will be up to you if you think it would work done that way or think it could be done another way better. Or simply leave things alone.

your probably right about the positioning of the tie-fighters would probably break the flow... And where you suggest it should go will probably work better.

VADER BREAKING THE GLASS LANDING PLATFORM

I also wanted to say that if you watch my rough cut 2nd version of the final act I did a mock-up of when Vader breaks the glass and I was pruposing that it would be after he finishes talking to luke when he is alone and he it goes inbetween seeing vader being assembled on the operating table and the cuts back to the landing platform glass corridor. What? Yes Vader on the operating table.... Did you watch it?

It was meant to be a reaction to Luke saying "then my father is truly dead...."

So please check this again... I thought it was an interesting idea and was not too poorly executed but you would have to imagine the glass cracking behind him as that would be CGI Effect.

There are also cut suggestions to the Father & Son dialogue which I think is a definate  improvement also.

MrInsaneA said:

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

So I've quickly looked through all pages since the last vote was called and have included everything of significance I noticed.  I did it rather quickly, which means I probably overlooked some things.  I'm trying to include links so people will understand references, such as unfamiliar ships designs, lengthy suggestions, music clips, etc.  That may take a bit and I have to study for my first exam on Wed.  Hope to have it up today at some point.  I doubt I'll give a full week for responses, as most people voted on the first and last days, so I'll probably shorten it.

I have another suggestion for you regarding Tie-Fighters we never get to see them launch in the whole trilogy and the method of them launching is really cool with those rails they hang on in the bays so my request is simple can we see some launch just before the battle starts?

That's actually a cool idea. It would be an awesome visual, to see thousands of TIEs flying out of the Death Star. Kind of like bees protecting a bee hive. 

I don't want to take the idea too far but would be happy just to see 1 or 2 launch from a bay on a star destroyer just to fill in that gap that we all know how it is but never witnessed it in a Star wars film before

I guess you'd have a few rows behind the first ones that go but to see it visually would be nice.

Ok so thinking about Yoda giving luke the crystal I have just looked over the footage of when Vader vs Luke at the end and It would be neccesary for when he recieves the crystal through mid air it would be the same footage as when luke checks his hand after he chops vaders off but luke composited in yodas hut although his lightsabre would be off screen below the bottom of the image. Not the shot though where we see lukes face and him clenching his fist though...

It will make it like a de-ja-vu momment and as if Yoda new the future... Handy he's wearing the right clothes... And it might just have the right connotations to it. As Luke throws the light sabre away before he gets dragged into the dark-side

darth_ender said:

So I've quickly looked through all pages since the last vote was called and have included everything of significance I noticed.  I did it rather quickly, which means I probably overlooked some things.  I'm trying to include links so people will understand references, such as unfamiliar ships designs, lengthy suggestions, music clips, etc.  That may take a bit and I have to study for my first exam on Wed.  Hope to have it up today at some point.  I doubt I'll give a full week for responses, as most people voted on the first and last days, so I'll probably shorten it.

I have another suggestion for you regarding Tie-Fighters we never get to see them launch in the whole trilogy and the method of them launching is really cool with those rails they hang on in the bays so my request is simple can we see some launch just before the battle starts?

emanswfan said:

I'd love to show all you guys the sandstorm scene when it is completed.  I am currently color correcting it followed by a lengthy frame-by-frame process of removing dust, scratches, etc. from the picture.  I have perfected the process enough to get rid of the possible randomization that can occur while cleaning the footage.  You just have to be very handy with the clone stamp, spot healing brush, and magic eraser tools to do so.

Nice Work Emanswfan!!!

Although the inclusion of other rebel ships I think would somewhat work... It really would not change that much in terms of the story but would hope it make it feel more rag-tag... Anyway those are my thoughts and whilst again I say I am not opposed to the idea it needs to be executed carefully and have in mind that there is hatred for the PT and It should proceed with caution and not be overdone... I think more emphasis should be placed on what is already there the B-wings A-wings Y-wings and x-wings  aswell as the tie-fighters and gunners on the falcon as we really did not see much action from these and were talking about other ships before expanding on the core-ships we have footage for and were really there in the original...... Think about that

The conversation needs to be brought back down to earth.....

Anyway I collected clips from the first act and have started piecing together parts.... It is alot of work to do so I will ask again if anyone would contribute anything or help such as a title crawl or any other mock-ups in low res video so render time is short....

It won't be done for a while anyway

ray_afraid said:

Ronster said:

Oh BTW I have a suggestion about the line "I have a promise to keep for and Old Friend"

Should this now be moved to just before Luke gets to tattooine as he would then be refereincing Han probably cut the the word old though so it is Luke saying to R2 "I have a promise to keep to a friend"

This would also co-inside with "were meeting up with the others" just before this line removing the word not and then into tattooine atmosphere

Love it!

darth_ender said:

Ray, I see the logic in your statement, but my thought is this: the Rebellion has never been better off, but they are also a conglomeration of various factions and races and formerly independent resistance groups (hence: Rebel Alliance).  While they are able to supply many newer ships, they also realize that this battle is not simply a scrimmage.  They're throwing everything they've got against the Empire, old and new.  If they lose this battle, they really lose everything.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. But, like you've said, some people would be annoyed with the inclusion of PT stuff in the OT. I can take Addy adding the robot in the junk pile, because  to me it's just another robot- doesn't necessarily tie in to the PT really. But when PT spaceships show up in RotJ, my mind has to decide between "those are new fighters, like the A's and B's." or "The PT really happened and this is proof. Godamit I hate Star Wars." Now, the first option doesn't sound too bad, but it runs the risk of becoming like the opening of RotS, a big mess of all kinds of old and new ships everywhere and I dunno who's who. The Rebels have two new fighters on screen along with new capital ships. The Empire has a new fighter as well as the big Super Stardestroyer (not a new ship, but new to battle). I'd say RotJ has enough new space ships in the battle already.

 

When you put it like that it does make me think you are right.... Hmmm, anyway I am all for expanded space battle but lets tread carefully with the PT ships please

lol burnt out in a blaze of glory...

I think that is as far as I can go with what we have to use but it's a matter of visualizing all this or atleast attempting to and hearing it....

ok well I will give it a shot, any help would be appreciated with mockups still or moving image.. 480p. It does not mean it will be in it's just experimenting and a pre-viz really

just getting the clips and I have had a very controversial thought and sure I will be shot down for this but should the working title for this project be.....

THE LAST OF THE JEDI

please don't kill me....I Just heard Yoda say it and it had a certain more meaningful tone as no Jedi return as such and this is really about the the last of the jedi rather than what happens after the film the title gives it away how it will end in essence but that said it does not show the return of the jedi order so is this a more fitting title?

Ok I am also analysing the parting of ways so the falcon goes to the fleet we have it that luke needs to be alone for a while....

Should we have the communication between ships on tattooine atmosphere rather than outer space and Luke goes to the Lars Homestead to watch the suns set and remember his foster parents, to empasise lukes sense of loss we would still see the falcon depart but luke would go there no lines needed just lukes theme and the 2 suns then cut to Emperor and DSII

that visual scene would also make the audio dub obsolete so it would be somwhere he is actally going... I am also thinking more about silhoette of a landed x-wing and luke standing watching across his old ruined home

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Just found this....

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So should the sanstorm consume the suns? as the storm rolls in

So the finish this suggestion use only the deleted scene footage as luke walks away to get back in the x-wing looking at his hand after the storm rolls in and consumes the suns... The rest would be as in the original only set within tattooines atmosphere with a wipe directly to the landed x-wing after we see the falcon depart tattooine.

The Sandstorm audio is horrible as the generators blowing the sound are too loud but this is perhaps a use without any  Audio Dubs

Oh BTW I have a suggestion about the line "I have a promise to keep for and Old Friend"

Should this now be moved to just before Luke gets to tattooine as he would then be refereincing Han probably cut the the word old though so it is Luke saying to R2 "I have a promise to keep to a friend"

This would also co-inside with "were meeting up with the others" just before this line removing the word not and then into tattooine atmosphere

ray_afraid said:

darth_ender said:

Hey Ray, don't get too worried....

Here's my problem with using PT ships: Why would they be dusting em off and using em now and not during the first DS battle? Surely thy needed the extra help then more than now when they have 2 brand new fighters at their disposal (A's n' B's). Same goes for adding Imperial craft. They got new ships this time out as well, so I don't see any point in shoving new/old ships onto the screen. I'm all for creating new action with the existing RotJ spaceships though. I'd say adding a scene where the B's take out a Stardestroyer is a must!

 

I tHINK THE IDEA IN ROTJ WAS THAT IS WAS MEANT TO BE THE RAG TAG REBELS WITH WHOEVER AND WHATEVER THEY COULD MUSTER LOOK AT THE LOST REBELS ALTHOUGH THEY ONLY DID THIS WITH THE PILOTS.... JUST SAYING I THINK IT WOULD WORK A BIT BUT WOULD NEED TO BE CAREFUL OR LIKE YOU SAY EXCLUDE IT

I just had a thought what if once the shield was down they took up defensive positions around the orbit of DSII and when DSII goes Bang it tears through the remaing fleet of Star destroyers ect in the process also?

So help me out on these lines....

Yoda back Turned "Somthing For you I have...."

Crystal fles across the room towards luke then we cut to lukes hand holding the crystal....

yoda speaks again over this shot of luke holding the crystal

"Help you it could...Yes"

darth_ender said:

I agree, but somebody needs to volunteer to do it.  I also found the crystal idea interesting, but can it be made to look like anything other than a flash movie?  And yes, DVD quality is the way to go.  We don't hear from emanswfan, so I hope he's stlil interested in fixing up the deleted scenes.

how to do the crystal it would need looking into... There is the momment when Yoda steals Lukes Lunch and Luke grabs it back but that is probably unsuitable :(

It was nice to see it in the mock-up handed over by the force though and probably is the way to go as it mystifies the crystal further.... But obviously would need the vote to be confirmed but I would like to see it's inclusion.

could one of the graphics team rotoscope the colour of lukes sabre glowing withinin the stone as it floats across the room and when in his gloved hand the robot one? I don't feel we need to see it after this...

Perhaps I could try this myself but am still learning basic stuff

Atleast that is how I see it in my Imagination....

I could have a go at the rough cut too but there would need to be an alternative take also as a comparison...... Because as you know yourself when you are playing about with video you come up with stuff :)

So I've been thinking again about what quality video should this edit be.... I suggest playing it safe for the incorporation of deleted scenes and go for DVD Quality....

Anyway so I think a rough cut or different takes of the fiirst act is needed sooner or later to confirm the flow of the proposed sequence it will help iron out any rinkles in the script.... whilst also making it apparent what may or may not need changing. I would also like to bring up Yoda passing over the crystal for Luke's lightsabre again as I really am fond  of this idea....

We have focused alot on the end so far and although it does feel that alot of ideas have been fleshed out and progress has been made It is now Time to focus on the start and flesh this out with the same intent as we have for the end.

This Rough Cut should happen before the second round of votes takes place, and attempt to remain true to the script somewhat....

The middle I feel is not perticularly in contention and do not feel that a rough edit is needed for this at all.

So I feel this Rough Edit Should run from the start until the emperor goes to DSII as Markers of start and finish point.

Thoughts?

Been working on some mock up shots in after effects and making some progress will have somthing up soon for Luke arriving at tattooine.... I hope you like the concept err basically he's searching for the falcon....

so my question is, is the CGI X-Wing any good? there will be a few shots that require it I have just come to realise how difficult it is to composte stuff from a black background atleast with low res video....