Ronster

DominicCobb said:

MrInsaneA said:

Getting from Dagobah too Tatooine isn't hard....just have the X-Wing and Millenium Falcon do a fly-by. Then cut to Lue, C-3PO and R2-D2.

Sorry if I missed something, but I thought the Emperor went in between Dagobah and Tatooine.

what do you plan to put in the gap where the falcon and luke part ways... If they did not part ways then luke would look stupid with "I'm coming too" think about that...

I said it before and I'll say it again

Some new opening....If it involves stealing the plans this would be great tie in to later on

Dagobah up until Ben & Luke

Vader DSII Only like the original

Delivering the plans to rebel fleet

Luke gets to Tattooine / Beggars Canyon / Looking for the falcon

Meditation chamber Vader contacts luke

Original Jabbas Palace run / sail barge / Leaving tattooine

Emperor goes DSII

Falcon gets to the fleet

Fixed and would have perfect pace

darth_ender said:

It's not so much the visuals as it is the story.  In my mind, the final shot on Dagobah would be Ben/Luke discussing that fun stuff, and the final line would be, "You must face Darth Vader again," moved from earlier.  To simply go from there to X-wing/Falcon flyby to Tatooine seems too abrupt.  It's the way TPM handled scene transitions, and if I could only fix one thing in that movie, that would probably be it; the movie feels rushed and we never feel like we're absorbing anything important from of any scenes.  Many fanedits seem to do the same thing, since it's far easier to remove elements from the original film than to add new ones.  Their edits result in the same feeling, and it doesn't allow for proper mood shifts in my mind.  I wouldn't want our ROTJ edit to end up the same way.

Well said that man!!!

that's what always ruins the illusion when things just happen too quick or you feel like but how did they get there so fast.... I got a big problem with ESB and Vader just popping out of nowhere on hoth it really pisses me off!!! I even did a rough mock up to show my idea and I've asked adywan to fix it and basically he said no :(

so I'm a little concerned

Angel said:

Ronster said:

The only problem my brain keeps coming up against is that we have 3 cuts away so if it starts with the original opening you cannot have the emperor to pad luke travelling to tattooine as you leave a gap when they leave tattoine. And I don't think you can open the movie with the meditation chamber....

Perhaps a better opening might be this... We see a star destroyer go overhead like all the other movies. We then cut to a bridge shot of Vader looking out the window and see either Endor or another planet and then cut away to surface of the planet Tantive attempting to escape. (Reversed footage of Organas landing and a flight shot on the surface atmosphere).

Back to the bridge and Vader "I want that ship!" Resume the Pursuit using footage of 1st shot of ROTS composited Tantive but in space and not the one in a new hope, but re-use the footage for the capture of the tantive suicide destruction and escape pods. basically finish it off there atleast that would feel much different from ANH somewhat? I dunno Could cut this down further and make it more ambiguous.....

No reused footage. Lightning, quality and vader's suit change all the time. Always something from scratch unless other movies can provide altered footage for desired shots.

-Angel

I guess you are referring to the black levels on Vader.... Hmmm, you really making this tough for me but I get what you are saying no re-used footage, but how then? can you CGI a Tantive? and make it look like a model or another ship perhaps... I think you should tell us what we can or cannot do to make this or somthing else like it work, would it really hurt to use a little bit again?

MrInsaneA said:

Ronster said:

@Darth_Ender.... It seems the main problems we have are:

1. The Opening - How should it start?

2. Bobba Fett

3. Space Battle - Visualizing what to do and where do we put it?

4. Lando - Live or die no inbetween

so addressing the first point we need to come up with somthing, perhaps Angel or Anlanfae could visualise somthing.

the second it would seem it either we have him fly away or harder route kill him off... The clincher is what to do about Han hitting the Jet pack is that particular shot able to either remove Han / move him over to the right a bit. I don't think having him fly out of the sarlac works because what will you do with him after that?

the third point is definatly one for the graphics team, I don't think that we should try to overdo it but somthing a little extra would be nice here and there

fourth as for Lando it seems more than likely we should just keep it as the original has anyone anyway changed their minds after my attempt at trying to show this. I don't know what to think myself about it but gave it a basic try anyway.

Essentially there is not too many differences this is the main bulk of indecision.

I am actually surprised about the majority NO on luke not telling Leia she is his Sister.... I thought this was my best idea, please watch the whole of my last cut on the previous page to see that all that it entails is a few cuts here and there she is lukes sister she just does not know it. Luke knows it / Vader knows it / Obi-wan tells Luke and also if you remeber he tells Luke to keep it a secret. It made perfect sense to me but anyway if I could not persuade you guys on that one nevermind.....

I'm pretty sure it's pretty clear cut what people want as far as sequence of events go at the start of the movie (Death Star II, then Dagobah, then Tattooine.) the main issue I think is whether to include Vader communicating with Luke on the Executor. IMO this should be after Vader arrives on the Death Star as originally planned. He goes to his meditation chamber, and mentally contacts Luke on Dagobah. 

Boba Fett....that's a tough one. I think if we can do more things with him and his death, we should. If we can't, at least have Han PURPOSELY hit him into the Sarlaac. But I'm really against his non-inclusion.

And Lando needs to live. Lando dying wouldn't be tragic so much as it would be anti-climactic. Plus the Falcon flying away from the exploding Death Star is one of the most iconic scenes in ROTJ.

Anyways, that's just my opinion. 

The only problem my brain keeps coming up against is that we have 3 cuts away so if it starts with the original opening you cannot have the emperor to pad luke travelling to tattooine as you leave a gap when they leave tattoine. And I don't think you can open the movie with the meditation chamber....

Perhaps a better opening might be this... We see a star destroyer go overhead like all the other movies. We then cut to a bridge shot of Vader looking out the window and see either Endor or another planet and then cut away to surface of the planet Tantive attempting to escape. (Reversed footage of Organas landing and a flight shot on the surface atmosphere).

Back to the bridge and Vader "I want that ship!" Resume the Pursuit using footage of 1st shot of ROTS composited Tantive but in space and not the one in a new hope, but re-use the footage for the capture of the tantive suicide destruction and escape pods. basically finish it off there atleast that would feel much different from ANH somewhat? I dunno Could cut this down further and make it more ambiguous.....

@Darth_Ender.... It seems the main problems we have are:

1. The Opening - How should it start?

2. Bobba Fett

3. Space Battle - Visualizing what to do and where do we put it?

4. Lando - Live or die no inbetween

so addressing the first point we need to come up with somthing, perhaps Angel or Anlanfae could visualise somthing.

the second it would seem it either we have him fly away or harder route kill him off... The clincher is what to do about Han hitting the Jet pack is that particular shot able to either remove Han / move him over to the right a bit. I don't think having him fly out of the sarlac works because what will you do with him after that?

the third point is definatly one for the graphics team, I don't think that we should try to overdo it but somthing a little extra would be nice here and there

fourth as for Lando it seems more than likely we should just keep it as the original has anyone anyway changed their minds after my attempt at trying to show this. I don't know what to think myself about it but gave it a basic try anyway.

Essentially there is not too many differences this is the main bulk of indecision.

I am actually surprised about the majority NO on luke not telling Leia she is his Sister.... I thought this was my best idea, please watch the whole of my last cut on the previous page to see that all that it entails is a few cuts here and there she is lukes sister she just does not know it. Luke knows it / Vader knows it / Obi-wan tells Luke and also if you remeber he tells Luke to keep it a secret. It made perfect sense to me but anyway if I could not persuade you guys on that one nevermind.....

Great Work Darth_Ender!

Most ideas outright win which keeps things simple for direction and is nice to see how all the ideas fayred up.... Interesting way to look at it now it's all on paper.

Had a bit of a bad day yesterday as had a row with my landlord and am getting evicted from my flat soon but anyway I re-did my rough-cut to take my mind off things, and improved alot and tried some new ideas it is mostly structure, so even if anything I did in it like Lando getting blown up which got voted against you can now see how it might of looked... I actually pulled it off resonably well with what I am working with bit of a fluke but anyway here are the main changes and link.

http://www.mediafire.com/?286b58g9cda2gvb

41m 28s

1. Trimmed Luke & Leia + Father & Son Vader flashback on Endor.... The idea is to show anger and anguish, and the glass cracking behind as he stares toward the camera this him using the force and will be a cgi shot for that... To show Vader is boiling over inside, not sure if people will like this idea but I gave it a go none the less.

2. Madine dies my way

3.Restructured so that Shield generator now is destroyed before the executor crashes and this is lukes exit point. Padded the bunker with prision cell block footage ANH and vaders death

4.Change Ackbars lines to "the Shield it down! concentrate all firepower.... we need to give those fighters more time"

5. Cut lots of silly Ewok

6. Millennium falcon is destryed you need to imagine it's in flames while it flys towrds the fleet and the DSII blows up but after that it is quite a blissful yet sad momment. Princess Leia Theme added.

7. quite a few other subtle changes, bit more streamlined,. but inclusion of Darth Enders Shield generator hot-wire into base and possible fix to the smoke and lasers everywhere comment.

I hope you give it a try or even a flick through, I'm quite happy with it, I would like to add more to it like space battle ideas but not right now, the main thing was getting it correct to flow properly as Darth_Ender did point out a pretty big failing that I had things a bit the wrong way round.

Hope you Enjoy it :)

It's a Ringlefinch....

sorry thought you were trolling, can see that you voted and  you want everyone to vote, now I see what you mean... Only half the votes are in...

Well I do not see a problem granting a few days extension but then that is a bit weak, if they did not vote then really it's their problem but I hope they vote too!

I also thought it was too early to vote but then whatever just go with the flow

MrInsaneA said:

I think that all the users need to debate the issue....figure out what's right....and do it.

Somebody should make them do it. Someone wise. *gives creepy Anakin stare*

Did you vote?

2nd round of votes are coming later... Darth_Ender will tell you that straight... You should keep up with what we are doing and put a valid opinion in....

Or is he just winding us up.... Were debating stuff you can too?

darth_ender said:

Ummm...no.  Usually one person with ideas that are largely his or her own make his or her own edit with his or her own resources and a little feedback from those interested in the project.  This happens to be the collaborative thread where we share ideas and try to get direction.  Yes, apparently it's a new thing around here.

You can always work on your own edit if you don't like the tediousness of this project.

No thats not quite the spirit... I want to see where this goes first, and I want to try and visualize my own ideas and try to help others with theirs too... I quite like it in here tbh... And you just made me laugh

darth_ender said:

But there's a great deal of symbolism to the whole object, not just the crystal.

 

Anyway, I got a PM from MrInsaneA.

 

MrInsaneA said:

And my opinion of your edit? Well I didn't like how you restructured the land battle of Endor, except towards the end when Han and the Rebels break into the bunker. It's kind of hard to judge how it flows because a lot of scenes you want to have are soundless, or just still pictures with descriptions. But it's full of some good concepts. With a lot of tweaking, it could be great.

I hope to get more feedback on the video because I think a good rough edit will give us more direction on how the battle will ultimately play out.  I still believe there are things that could be added, particularly to the space battle.  Anyone else have any thoughts they feel like sharing.  I know it's nowhere near perfect, but if anyone can think of how to sharpen the concepts, that would be appreciated.

 

How do edits normally start, do people usually do these rough cuts and compare notes thrash it out, or what or is this somewhat of a new thing?

I am quite new here... ahem

darth_ender said:

Yeah, I don't think it's trivial.  I think it's got the spirituality of ESB.  But like I said, It would be hard to pull off that complex a shot without obviously showing ESB footage.  But I do think a simpler version could be shown to illustrate the same message.  Ultimately I do wish we had more Dagobah footage to play with.

There is a little bit at the end of ROTS, I was going to suggest using that for the planet reveal you mention Darth Ender I was also eyeing Ogana's Tantive for possible shots the other day for the "Stealing the plans opening" Suggestion  that would also make it look a bit more different than what I currently have. anyway just trying to help

fishmanlee said:

Ronster said:

I like the Idea but don't feel there is any need to visualize something as trivial as a lightsabre being constructed

Trivial?

Yeah it's an object.... It's the potential energy you give it not the object on it's own.... I like X-wings too but It does not mean I want to see how they build them.... Catch my drift

darth_ender said:

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

No need to even do that.... Have am alarm sound like the tractor beam from ANH "whats that flashing" on the falcon while he is swinging round in his chair and then the close up the force be with us and then Boom!!!

I think it would work better on the second cruiser now as the first one is all about surprise

Definitely agreeing with your last statement.  The first is the surprise; the second packs the emotion.  And maybe you're right about how to pull it off with just an alarm too, but I worry that the audience might wonder how they know the Death Star is about to fire.  Maybe it would be enough, I dunno.

The Alarms going so we know somthing is wrong.... The next thing we here is "The Force Be with us" .... BANG....  It was too late to even do anything so I think it might work...

Johannus said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAfOrr31FIw&feature=youtu.be

Here is a very (very) rough mock up of what I was suggesting for an opening Dagobah scene.  I removed the sound altogether as it was all over the place and it would take much more than a mock up to fix that so initiallyI'm afraid we'll have to make do with some annotations to accompany it, so here goes.

To start with there would be a new establishing shot showing the Xwing on Dagobah, then inside Yoda's house we would see him moving over to obtain his lightsaber crystal, talking to Luke about how the lightsaber is only a tool through which to use the force (or anything that sounds wise). 

Then show him turning and moving the crystal which then falls into Luke's hand.  Then we would pick back up to Luke and Yoda outside where Luke builds the Lightsaber using the force (which was inspired by this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uqWOxsSx4 ).

Then instead of having Luke immediately ignite the blade I would have him walk off, and then we cut to the Yoda death scene shortly after.  Then once Yoda dies Luke tweaks the lightsaber and ignites it (the deleted scene footage changed to set on Dagobah as shown in the photo I linked to earlier).  After this Luke would move to his Xwing to depart and hear Yoda's voice urge him to hurry to his friends' rescue (as I described briefly in my earlier post). 

I know this would reuse a lot of footage but given the limited movement from both Yoda and Luke, and the fact Luke's face is offscreen any time he would need to talk then Luke's speech shouldn't be a problem, and Yoda's is only limited really by his lack of existing lines, but I'm still playing around there, and there might be more sources I don't know about.  But visually the backgrounds could be changed without much work, as there is very little movement, and even Luke's costume could be changed to a partly new costume, even if it would be difficult to make it match exactly with his RotJ one.  I know it wouldn't be easy, but I do think it would be possible. 

I think the benefits are it potentially has an awesomeness factor because it would be cool to see Luke build a lightsaber.  It would also explain how he happened upon the necessary pieces to build one (because Yoda handed his old lightsaber down to a new apprentice).  And it would increase the running time, which allows more freedom with other cutting without damaging the overall length. 

The additional clips were to show Luke holding the crystal, and Luke examining the hilt after piecing it together. 

Anyway I hope someone else might agree that this idea has potential (despite an extremely rough demonstration as to its execution). 

I like the Idea but don't feel there is any need to visualize somthing as trivial as a lightsabre being constructed over the course of minutes...... But what I really like is Yoda giving him the crystal, and that would be enough to show that he passed it onto luke....

"have somthing for you I do..."

that's enough if we were to see the crystal and luke hold it in his robot hand this would also add symbolism to that, like yoda trying to protect him which I am very fond of also. If it's a crystal glowing like bright green and lukes sabre suddenly turns green as opposed to blue.... I think the audience will get it no need to explain it in such detail.

I like this part not seeing it constructed would be boring IMO

darth_ender said:

So I was thinking about what you said, Ronster, regarding Madine's death.  I had this thought, based on your suggestions: We see Madine in his chair from afar while apparently one of his bridge officers is talking to him (maybe the black guy, but we'd digitally have to move his mouth.  "General, the Death Star is preparing to fire again."  Close up of Madine.  Madine says, "May the Force be with us all."  Then the DSII fires and blows up the second Mon Cal cruiser.  If done well, minimal mouth movement would need to be added.  It would probably be appropriate to somehow insert Lando or Ackbar or someone else's sorrow at the loss of Madine, saying something like, "Liberty!...Madine..."  That way there is no doubt about which ship was destroyed and we feel some emotional connectedness and loss at his death.  If we carefully trim unnecessary lines (i.e. cutting a portion of Lando's, "That blast came from the Death Star!  That thing's operational!" in a careful manner), we can probably produce a few seconds to make that last trick work.  Good suggestion, Ron.

No need to even do that.... Have am alarm sound like the tractor beam from ANH "whats that flashing" on the falcon while he is swinging round in his chair and then the close up the force be with us and then Boom!!!

I think it would work better on the second cruiser now as the first one is all about surprise

fishmanlee said:

Ronster said:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Collaborative-Fanediting-An-ROTJ-Proposition-Voting-in-progress-if-you-ve-ever-contributed-to-this-thread-please-vote-on-issues-in-post-222-linked-in-first-post/post/557030/#TopicPost557030

This post will help you understand a bit better I am looking for the right music though

I just checked, and I cannot really come up with anything right now, with the state the idea is in right now (nothing really visual in terms of motion picture) heh, now I know why Williams had a hard time scoring AOTC's Arena Battle.

EDIT: something like this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAyuULWW5k4

That will do nicely Mr Fishmanlee, you done it again!

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Collaborative-Fanediting-An-ROTJ-Proposition-Voting-in-progress-if-you-ve-ever-contributed-to-this-thread-please-vote-on-issues-in-post-222-linked-in-first-post/post/557030/#TopicPost557030

This post will help you understand a bit better I am looking for the right music though

I hope they are only busy and it's not that they are not interested anymore..... Ah they are massive star wars fans of course they are interested,

I have a friend who is a graphic designer and I'm going to try and get him to help me develop some of my ideas if he can be bothered.....In after effects hopefully, or somthing like this,

Fishmanlee has inspired me also yesterday... and my tattooine idea is more complete.....What music would you suggest for a beggars canyon fly through fishmanlee? I want it to be a bit E.T. like but with the dark flash back included if possible

also anyone remember this... I am also now drawing from this as a new source of inspiration in many ways....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCIDBBEOz3o

Well If the graphics guys have bugged out.... My art cannot save the day unfortunatly :(

darth_ender said:

Finally, an even lower quality version of the Battle of Endor.

 

http://www.4shared.com/video/q9iTMV5P/New_Battle_of_Endor_edit_lo_qu.html

 

I hope you guys like it.  I tried to include segments that could easily be dubbed to suit our story-telling purposes.  Like I said, no attack on the communications vessel yet.  Please let me know your thoughts, one and all.  There are enough differences to warrant another watch if you have already seen my previous version.

Well Done Darth_Ender, I think there are some good ideas in here, but they are mostly carried over from the previous edit....

Here is my feedback and I hope you take it constructivly.

1. Madine does not need to give the order to go to lightspeed or say the force be with us before the battle it would have been better used on the second Mon Calamari cruiser being destroyed as the first was a surprise but I really lol at Aw Shucks!

2.Jejerrod really breaks up the pace when they are going for the  reactor on attack run and I think his inclusion kills exitement and he's boring anyway. The placement seems to be kind of correct though which is why he got cut no doubt

3.The time between them starting there assault on the DSII and actually making the attack run is too long apart in time.

4. Your best idea is that the hot-wire opens the door which is fantastic IMO

5. Too Much silly Ewoks / Traps

6.It's hard to Visualise the space battle stills.....I will give it another look... But I liked the inclusion of the gunners on the falcon and thought the placement was well thought out although I would have tried to include some ANH footage also of taking down some ties too.

7.You know my opinion on constantly breaking away to another scene before you have reached any kind of conclusion of any particular plot and the original muddled feel of ROTJ.... I unfortunatly feel you have emphasised this more and caused more confusion with the already jumbled nature of the origoinal. But I understand you like the climaxes to all be happening simultaneously but this was not working well

8. Alot of Audio Dubbing... Probably too much to get away with apart from Fish Face B-wing Pilots there ok

darth_ender said:

I had the same thought, as it does match the Lost Rebels lines.  However, I don't like the idea of power reactors vulnerable through hangar bays; hangars are already exposed, so it's an obvious vulnerability, and who would be stupid enough to place the reactors right where a ships have easy access?  Besides, Anakin blew up the Droid Ship that way, so I'd hope to show it go in some other manner.  Frankly, I'd be okay if they took out the bridge tower.  I think it'd be cool to see a bunch of antennae and/or dishes blowing up.

you know the dome on the underside of the belly of a star destroyer well how about 4 of them positioned like this

 0

0 0

 0

But in closer proximity with a 5th dome or dish that sits ontop of these 4 as a base but passes through the center on the 4 base domes and a little bigger.

actually a ball would probably work better.

How about that for design?

yeah the hanger idea is no good.....

darth_ender said:

So I've been doing a little research on star destroyers as I hope we do successfully implement another design or two into our battle.  Here's some interesting info on the communications ship, which seems to be featured in the battle from a distance at least:

http://www.theforce.net/swtc/dagger.html#commship

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Main_communications_ship

The communications ship was the vessel jamming the Rebels.  How else would they know the shield was down without having disabled the jamming in some way?  It makes sense to me.  I didn't include any sort of attack on the communications vessel in this rough edit because I wasn't sure I liked how I did my little script and was trying to hurry and get everything done.  However, I do think this would be a valuable inclusion to the battle.

 

Also, thinking about Coruscant with all this discussion, I'm starting to wonder if there is some way to include it.  Problem is it doesn't seem logical for the Death Star to be anywhere nearby, and I don't think it would be realistic or suspenseful enough to set Coruscant as the center stage.  I'm wondering if there is some other way to give it more screen time or inclusion...

This is basically what was planned from the lost rebel footage the attack on the communications ship.... The lines in that footage match the wookiepedia description to the T.

So they planned to do this but left it out as it meant more SFX shots, and more budget.... Hmmm it's just a question of what one looks like close up and how to execute that sequence it's somthing really for the Graphics Team to figure out.....

That means destroying another Mon Calamari Cruiser.. But thats your capital shio battle for the taking.... Lando can say "yeeha" then lol they got the puppet to do the lines instead of Lando lol

darth_ender said:

Unfortunately no.  I've really spent more time trying to get this silly thing uploaded than I expected.  It's currently in six 100 mg pieces but here at the library it is so slow to upload.  I'm about to head home and will upload it on my own Internet which will hopefully be faster.  It will then have to be combined into one video.  I didn't think this would be so much trouble, and I've had computer troubles on top.  I really will get this up today if I have to kill myself.  In retrospect, that sounds a bit extreme, but I really will get this up today.

why don't you just winrar it?

Split into pieces in Winrar.... Then you unpack from the first rar file....

When you do the rough cut why you not select 512kbs video for broadband when exporting it will be more manageable it's only a rough after all.

darth_ender said:

Darth_ender's collection of ideas/contributions:

Battle of Endor edit

Edited ROTJ script

Lousy attempt at character impersonations for potential new lines

Errors in ROTJ

Is this your new cut?

Edit: Ok I see it's the old one.... How do I link to individual post?