Ronster

darth_ender said:

Ronster, while ben_danger uploaded those videos, he didn't create them...they were actually the work of a guy called SSWR I guess, who apparently had lots of great ideas, and then vanished, as did his videos over time.  I think they are "public domain" so to speak.

As for the shuttle, I honestly don't care if it changes or stays the same, but I do find some of the alternate ideas interesting.  I agree, bat wings may not be the way to go, but making it distinct and more powerful looking could go a long way--perhaps just arming it with some big guns or something.

I'd like it to be dark like the eclipse...

Sorry for my bad sketch it was not meant to look bat wing like spiked and concave definatly not bat wings

timdiggerm said:

Although that's true, remember that there's nothing particularly evil looking about Vader's TIE versus other TIEs. Heck, the features that made it so unique ended up getting mostly incorporated into the Bomber in the very next film. Vader's TIE looked more powerful than the other TIEs (although it didn't actually demonstrate that), which fits with Vader's character. He is powerful.

What is the distinctive essence of Palpatine? How can that be reflected in a ship while still keeping the aesthetics of the Empire? As much as I understand why bat-wings (well, that is what that looks like) make sense, they don't fit with everything else the Empire builds.

And there's nothing wrong with naked.

I'm sorry do you think it makes kind of sense or it's a bad call because I thought of it the other day whislt I don't want it to look like the batmobile of star wars like

more spiky

Vader had a unique shaped tie-fighter In ANH I think the emperor should have a unique shaped shuttle that suits him otherwise keep it normal IMO but thats just my thinking

or perhaps add the emblem as bingo wings suggested

I feel naked after doing that sketch in microsoft paint

Bingowings said:

I rather like the 'more red' version as it ties the shuttle colour to the Imperial Guard armour.

Here was my more space Nazi version :

Looks like starsky and hutch... Lol

I'm sorry but I'm not agreeing to this... Can't you make it look evil?

jpg image hosting

You can laugh at mine now.. I mean change the shape of the wings

ben_danger said:

hey ronster. just finished watching your clips.

you have done really well considering the materials provided are really awful quality, and although there are alot of choices that have been made which i don't think work perfectly, you have really pulled something together that refreshes ROTJ!

where did you get the footage for the tatooine fly through? i am assuming some sort of nature documentary? it works awesomely!

Hi there... Thanks yes lots of footage from all over the place A combination of films and pics

1. Final approach - psycholical thriller first digital sound mix was what it was famous for. this a deleted title now

2.Imax Grand canyon - Hidden secrets documentry

3, Some stills various and bits and pieces from the trench run ANH composited

4.Audio files are from The Bobba fett holiday special cartoon

5. Phantom menace POD race far shots  and deleted scenes

It's only a storyboard rough mock-up I hope the it would not look like this if it were done as a final... I needed to get alot of ideas out quick rather thean spend ages on a particular sequence + I only began learning the CS5 suite on the trial whilst doing this stuff so the rough framework is there for the ideas they are far from perfect I agree it needs in alot of cases new footage or use 3DS max models but they are only ideas still

I'm a bit gutted that I did not do the shot of him flying towards tatooine as Is missing but hey time restraints my trial ran out and you get the idea

was watching your clips again last night and you have some good stuff there I plan to use your sequence to assemble into my final storyboard cut for the C3PO sequence story telling the ewoks so thought I had better ask your permission on this?

MrInsaneA said:

fishmanlee said:

here is a redder version

Couldn't just have a red stripe or something? This seems like too much.

I think it might look better black with red windows...

I thought about what the emperors shuttle might look like the other day and I thought about basically the same design as normal lamda shuttle but the tips of the wings reach a spike and the wings are concave and curves to the end to meet the apex point and it's like not white but dark like the eclipse.

Met my first hurdle so I need to find the original ROTJ bummer I only have the SE

The added scenes in the SE with Boba flirting with the dancer girls was just a cut away as you loose the footage that was originally there? need to check Harmys version to see what the score is here not on any change lists so I guess thats the answer perhaps cannot remember off the top of my head.

fishmanlee said:

here is a redder version

lol

fishmanlee said:

Here is my clip:

http://youtu.be/bOezx31N3Ms

Like the way it starts but then it loses it a bit and then redeems itself when luke is the other side of the door...

Who is it? Jerry Goldsmith? What film?

Another soundtrack I started thinking of that might be usefull is salute of the Jugger (Blood of Hereos) theres some good drums and arabic type sounds in this too might find a use for somthing in that soundtrack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKdxW9UCcvQ&feature=related

fishmanlee said:

Rancor lair is what I am working on right now! :)

well check it I smashed it out over oola and chopped it short for luke to let JW in :)

The idea was it was like rining the dinner bell because they must let him out to stretch his legs so it's the signal that dinner is served. :)

fishmanlee said:

I have an idea I am working on, that I think you guys will like, It was inspired by Ronster mentioning Jerry Goldsmith.

Check Part 3 a few pages back of my structure mock-up I included the Jerry Cues to the Sarlac pitt totally unsubtle and then altogether subtle amongst a few others would be good if you could improve upon what I did as your better than me at that sort of thing...

I could do with the lars homestead / Binary sunset re-scoring without the flashbacks if you want to get your teeth into that? as I should not have done the flashbacks got drawn into that black hole again

Drumming to Rancors lair in pt2 also might interest you?

fishmanlee said:

I have an idea I am working on, that I think you guys will like.

finish the sentance pls :)

fishmanlee said:

Ronster said:

my cut already is at 2hrs+ and I have not even finished it yet lol :(

I can actually see why they end up shorter now I'm doing one

Did you see my post about ATS?

You could be right and I may change this and reprise luke and leia theme again so I listened to it earlier and it is too slow so forget that I'm already changing my mind on this

besides you know I won't let you down that bad! :)

my cut already is at 2hrs+ and I have not even finished it yet lol :(

I can actually see why they end up shorter now I'm doing one.. Still the same storyboard rough cut footage as before too thers just so much to take into account

darth_ender said:

Only problem for me is that it's PAL, which I can still watch, but it's a pain in many cases.  I know I can alter the way my DVD and BD players work or watch it on the computer, but I also like to distribute these edits to people who are even less savvy as to this sort of thing than I am.  I just wish everyone would make NTSC versions as well.  Oh well, I forgive daneditor/Yads :)

get the AVI thats what I did

darth_ender said:

So after reading up a bit on the Dan Edit, I wonder why I never downloaded it before.  I feel it may have a great deal to offer in terms of editing choices and creating a tight storyline.  I will download and watch it soon, and then will be able to offer a few more suggestions.  I really do need to hold off on the final vote for my sake as well.

Just watched dan editors take which has proved helpfull in seeing some good ideas.But it was too short again for a finale to the OT IMO but better than spence's edit for fluidity but nowhere near as daring and hard hitting as spence edit.

I plan to follow his lead on a few things

1. Cutting back the dialogue and petting of R2 with Bib Fortuna but I will be more conservative than he was

2. Removing "A certain point of view exchange between Luke and Obi-wan on Dagobah this is very good

3. Removing whirring sound from destroyed speeder bike luke hits with his lightsabre

4. Remove Hans "proper" when ewoks capture Hereos

5. Use Dan editors take on "hold me" leia to han on ewok bridge as he had the same idea but cut it alot better than me.

6.Changing Jabbas Dialogue subtitles slightly perhaps

7. Using Luke and leia theme at the end at some point probably when luke tells her she is his sister

anything else he did I am not doing unless I have already done it but these are the new changes I will be making which I have not already done + trying to add  some of the place holders for space battle stuff also and then this part will finally wrap up for me and complete what I started

still so much to do....

Thanks D :)

Where do I find the the radio broadcast for C3PO's lines on Endor?

I plan to include this as per your script... Like I don't get any inspiration from you lol

You know it's a shame because I hoped somone would be doing a take alongside what I was doing that way atleast we could see different viewpoints before the final vote. Also that way it would get properly hammered out I'll readily accept my ideas are not always right or should be ditched but It would have been really productive to have had a comparison as I said before for the common good of getting the best results.... Nevermind hopefully a comparison rough cut will come later and we can draw from the best of both whilst observing the other 2 edits by Daneditor and Spence.

darth_ender said:

Oh, cool.  I didn't understand that you agreed, but I think your line really does make it more justifiable.  But I'll still put it in the vote, since both you and MrInsaneA both at least once thought it was the way to go.  I think your last sentence answered mine and everyone's concerns though: if the Eclipse is escorted by several other Star Destroyers that stay, it would make more sense for the Eclipse to depart by itself.  Good call, Ron.

D please do me a favour let me finish this complete rough cut before you put anything else up for vote... I always feel like I'm racing against the clock to get things done I'm hoping I will actually have it done today or later in the week...

I am asking this because I want to watch the daneditors version too and perhaps take some inspiration from this... Infact I already have a bit... The inclusion of the music piece Luke and Leia at the end.

There is 3 other cuts I wish to check but I may just have a go without watching dan editors take  because of time restraints regarding cutting Obiwan and luke "A certain point of view" lines C3PO dialogue with Bib Fortuna Jabbas palace, cutting tydirium differently and it's passage to endor to make it more tense perhaps

I have cut the scene with wicket and leia down, made it less patronising but not removed it because I feel it's important to show that Ewoks are not just stupid teddy bears there is some sense to this scene.

So I have been collecting resources to expand the space battle a bit for this rough cut from your take for placeholders aswell as do a new ending I am resolving my idea about luke telling leia on the bridge she is his sister during the celebrations practically the same setting what luck hoping it will add to the end and resolution of my take... And actually sway peoples opinion on what I still feel is the best idea for ROTJ ever :)

I am planning also to show the celebrations around the galaxy where it would normally roll credits and then cut back to ships leaving Endor and joining the fleet then into hyperspace roll end credits I will be removing the ewok JW score from the credits and replacing with across the stars.

So don't think I'm disregarding the script you have worked so hard on I will be merely providing you with a What about this? Aswell as my final rough cut...

I will announce when it's done and if any of you would like to see it please PM me Darth Ender I will send you a copy regardless for your reference. I will cut some of the ideas and compile in a post for ideas too

darth_ender said:

That's a good point on the line about Han's line, which to me further justifies making it a big ship.  I don't see how it is outdoing the Executor.  To me one is a Cadillac and the other is a Lincoln, but they're both luxury cars.  I just have a hard time believing the Emperor would bring something smaller and leave the big ship with Vader.  He's consistently shown that he's arrogant.

Even if we downscale the Eclipse, I don't think it should be the size of a regular Star Destroyer, nor do I think it should stay in the battle.  The Rebels are already outgunned.  We want their victory to be believable, and big or small, the Eclipse is sure to be a heavily armed vessel.  And if we keep it for the battle, the story virtually demands that we address what would happen to it.  We'd need to see its destruction as well.

I don't understand what you mean about two crippled Star Destroyers, Ron.  Luke's line can stay, that's fine with me.  I'll have to toy with the Jerjerrod scene and Vader in the hall as well.

I am talking about my opening mock up... Vader comes in after the 2 star destroyers are crippled by home 1... Perhaps it's not entirly clear what is supposed to be going on as it's very difficult when you cannot create somthing and only modify some computer game :(....

But basically I was suggesting that he would come in the executor instead of a normal star destroyer change that too now to the executor. and keep the executor arrives at DSII

The eclipse would not need downscaling after I hear the line from Han it's basically grants complete artisitic license and your right why would the emperor have a crapper ship than vaders. If the Eclipse had normal star destroyers with it then it would make sense they stay and the eclipse on it's own departs

darth_ender said:

I think we can keep them out of the same shots, and like I said, we'll put it up for a vote.  I may be in the minority.

I have started assembling a complete rough cut today from all I have done already... And was listening to Han while they are on shuttle tydirium trying to get clearance and Han says "there are plenty of command ships" So for me thats a green light for the eclipse and the executor... If somthing like my opening mock-up is a liked voted for idea then Vader should jump in on the executor after the 2 star destroyers are crippled this would also mean vader shows up at DSII as in the script you have already put up D and if the Ralph Mcquarrie tribute is liked then I will go with your suggestion that it should be the eclipse as it suits the emperor much better. And would make more sense that Han also says this line.

But as MrInsaneA has just said I don't want the executor being outdone

So I fixed the cut to obi-wan by cutting you cannot escape your destiny also and it works well this way... I have Observed all other cuts except C3PO telling the story because I don't think it works all that well and luke "Vader is here now on this moon" because he could have been coming from somewhere else on Endor not neccesarily from The Executor or DSII.

Did Vader choking Jejerod in rough and it's ok but has problems the walk towards down the hall does not quite make it up to the camera from lukes lightsabre deleted scene so his appearance on the edge of the screen will need to be re-timed and delayed when cutting to jejerods conflict first scene via masking and compositing. added line from the interactive board game "The responsibility is yours commander" as is all that would work somewhat well just a disrespect to him really and then he gets in the lift from lukes lightsabre deleted scene resumed.

true but my thinking is more like showing that design of the eclipse but only his personl transport and not making anyone even think is that thing bigger than the executor so you would need to establish that it is definatly not outdoing the executor in anyshots they might appear together in be it at coruscant for the ralph tribute or at DSII arrival... So if you do not show it at all together with the executor then no problems but if you show it being escorted say by the executor it needs to be alot smaller

yep it can just leave no audio dubs required

looking at that picture though if you asked me which one was bigger.... Well say no more

It's not all about length you need to take girth into account too lol :)

darth_ender said:

Ronster said:

darth_ender said:

Just found this website if we want to do any physical modeling instead of CGI:

http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~ddwwp/ScaleSolutionsShopResinModelKits.html

Could do the Executor and the Eclipse.

Having not known what the eclipse actually looked like until seeing that image on the link, I would say that it suits the emperor very well in a sense that it is stylized as such that it looks more like what he would travel in and I think now I understand why you have been saying this.... Although I would have had no means to be able to do a mock-up with that ship... But as I recall you saying that It would only serve as a vessel and not be in the battle with it's attributes... But you also lose the sense of the fleet getting bigger and amassing their forces in preparation for the rebels attack.

So I like the idea but I feel that you loose the empires fleet amassing there forces in greater numbers around DSII upon arrival of the emperor

Would it need to be Super-ster destroyer size and could the design be star destroyer size (scale down) and just use the design as opposed to what it actually "is" Then you could have it escorted by the executor for example and have the best of both.

Sorry not discounting that you want the Executor to drop Vader off as per the script... I am just looking at other possibilities.

Here is a finished model from scale solutions... To give you an idea what an assembled one might look like

http://www.starwars-models-images.com/others/SCALESOLUTIONS_ECLIPSE.html

So if you could imagine this as star destroyer size and seeing as they were not built until much later on in the EU Saga it might corelate that they were built at super star destroyer size in rememberence of dear old palps.

Basically I feel the design is it's selling point more spiky, gothic and more evil and better suited to the emperor so with not only seeing the imperial palace (if people like that tribute to ralph) and this it would continue to cunjure a greater cliche to old hammer horror type dracula's castle this bloke is incredibly evil. But I don't think it needs to be as big as it is in reality.

Your reasoning is probably very similar to MrInsaneA's.  I'll just say that I'm not that attached to the Eclipse...I think it'd be fun, but I can live without it.  The reason for ever mentioning it is this: in the novel it  became clear why Vader arrived only in a standard Imperial Star Destroyer--it's because the Emperor arrived in the Super Star Destroyer.  I read this after we'd already changed the script so that Vader arrived in the Executor.  Then it occurred to me...he's the Emperor, he's not going to be outdone by Vader.  Maybe he'd arrive in the Eclipse!  It's even badder in many ways.  Plus it looks pretty darn cool.

Then I thought, "No way.  That ship is too powerful.  Even minus the superlaser, having two giant ships against the Rebels would just be too much to make a happy ending realistic."  But then I thought, well, what if it drops him off and leaves?

You see, if it is to be included, it would have to be on par with Vader's ship, or it's just not worth it.  But then it would have to leave, or it would just be too much.  I know the Empire is amassing ships and men, but an empire as large as the Galactic Empire surely has far more ships and troops than shown here.  They gathered enough to defeat the Rebellion, but their forces still had other missions to perform, such as maintaining martial law throughout the Galaxy.  I can find it believable for the Eclipse to go fill some other role, and perhaps it would be better to explain somehow why it was leaving (not sure how this could be done).  But I truly feel it's better to either keep it big, or leave it out.  I like the idea, but I'm not emotionally attached to it, so either way I'm okay with it.

I guess if anyone can think of a decent way to explain its departure onscreen with available material (perhaps a dubbed line) and without distracting from the story, it might justify its presence a little better.  Any thoughts.

PS I'll include a miniature Eclipse as a voting item anyway.

 

I think you are on the right lines D but like I myself have overdone it with some of miy ideas I think this is perhaps in the similar vein but after seeing this for the first time only today... I think it would be a very fitting ship for the emperor almost like an air force one for the emperor but it's size is too much that is all and I do really want to support the suggestion as I agree looks cool it looks gothic and most of all evil designed no doubt with the emperor in mind it should be his personal transport but the executor cannot be outdone as this is the super-star destroyer of OT and nothing else.

Although thinking if they build him his own star destroyer then he would need a modified shuttle also going down this stram of thought. But it ends there...

If it were decided to go this far I guess heis worth it afterall one of the best evil villains ever he deserves it.

Never new what I was doing in my mock-ups were cannon?

no need for any dubs just show it going into hyperspace... It left...

jonathan7 said:

Just had an idea for the sand storm deleted scene, could  it be an Imperial probe droid which is spying on them as they escape and then have Vader watching it on a screen... The scene would need to be cut, and have an establishing shot of the droid, but with it up on a screen it would establish why the quality wasn't as good perhap?

It's a good idea but it does not lead anywhere because they are meant to be stowed away on a stolen shuttle after the briefing around sullust and nobody pursues them when they leave tatooine so although it's a good idea in essence it does not serve any plot devices and does not help in anyway the empire catch the hereos.

although if rotj was in it's original structure and you kept boba alive could work better that way you would exlpain how vader knows the rebels are amassing near sullust...

darth_ender said:

Just found this website if we want to do any physical modeling instead of CGI:

http://users.hunterlink.net.au/~ddwwp/ScaleSolutionsShopResinModelKits.html

Could do the Executor and the Eclipse.

Having not known what the eclipse actually looked like until seeing that image on the link, I would say that it suits the emperor very well in a sense that it is stylized as such that it looks more like what he would travel in and I think now I understand why you have been saying this.... Although I would have had no means to be able to do a mock-up with that ship... But as I recall you saying that It would only serve as a vessel and not be in the battle with it's attributes... But you also lose the sense of the fleet getting bigger and amassing their forces in preparation for the rebels attack.

So I like the idea but I feel that you loose the empires fleet amassing there forces in greater numbers around DSII upon arrival of the emperor

Would it need to be Super-ster destroyer size and could the design be star destroyer size (scale down) and just use the design as opposed to what it actually "is" Then you could have it escorted by the executor for example and have the best of both.

Sorry not discounting that you want the Executor to drop Vader off as per the script... I am just looking at other possibilities.

Here is a finished model from scale solutions... To give you an idea what an assembled one might look like

http://www.starwars-models-images.com/others/SCALESOLUTIONS_ECLIPSE.html

So if you could imagine this as star destroyer size and seeing as they were not built until much later on in the EU Saga it might corelate that they were built at super star destroyer size in rememberence of dear old palps.

Basically I feel the design is it's selling point more spiky, gothic and more evil and better suited to the emperor so with not only seeing the imperial palace (if people like that tribute to ralph) and this it would continue to cunjure a greater cliche to old hammer horror type dracula's castle this bloke is incredibly evil. But I don't think it needs to be as big as it is in reality.

Talking about the cut to Obi-wan on Dagobah reiterating "you must face darth Vader again"

the line where he says "you cannot escape your destiny" needs to go long with Obi-wan on the log and lukes back turned then cut to lukes face "I can't kill my own father... Atleast thats the best I can see who to achieve this cut.

@Darth_ender just to clarify with you about the lars homestead scene I think you are right I overdone it and would like you to include it up for vote but state that it would not include the flashbacks that I did in the mock-up I created.

That said you still need to show the falcon in space to allow the transition to this scene so I would like to also affirm that if this scene is up for vote then it may aswell have the Millennium falcon with Han and chewie back in the cockpit one last time also but a seperate vote as it is not neccesary but you need to cut away to somthing as I said.

The last item I would like to add is C3PO's eye still hanging out on the top deck of the sail barge before he falls off the edge and now I think I am finally done.

Please do not put the panic in the x-wing up for vote as I now think this should be completly ditched and forgotton

All part of the experimentation anyway to get to some kind of outcome