Ronster

Johannus said:

Not to interrupt the Anakin ghost argument too much, but I have a completely unrelated mock up video for everyone to see.  Its still got rough effects and no proper sound done yet but thought you might like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8HgrnDboOU

"Boring conversation anyway"

I really like the lead up to the cruiser being destroyed... and I like the shots you used...  I'm still unsure about the cheesewire Deathstar laser idea I think the ship just needs to go Bang! like everything else that it fires at does.

I used an Old sfx for the alarm labelled Reggae horns fx worked reasonably well and will send you the sample if you like

Great work Johannus!

Going to get started on storming the deathstar today been really ill with a bad flu virus so not alot has happened this week so far but I will have somthing by next week hopefully.

gobalicious said:

The Concierge said:

I've never really understood the reasoning that Obi-wan and Yoda ought to appear as idealized projections like Hayden-Anakin did. There are obvious crispy and darkish factors affecting Anakin that don't apply to the others. 

It would seem established that once you become one with the Force and gain the ability to appear as an apparition, it is restricted as you appeared when you died. Not a problem for Yoda and Obi-wan! They have all their limbs! So either way, unless you want a horrifying vision of a reanimated, disarticulated corpse bidding Luke farewell (which would follow established "canon", and morbidly make the most sense...), there HAS to be an idealized, kind of wish-fulfillment ghost-projection of Anakin.

But which makes the most sense? A vision of what Anakin *could* have been, but never actually was? A kind of mystical plastic surgery? Is this perhaps more vain than the Force should be? Or do you go the route of a vision of what Anakin *has* been, the Force reaching back to the "good man who was destroyed" (debatable though it may be exactly how "good" he really was)? Or is that still the Force appealing to Anakin's vanity?

Personally, I prefer the idea of going back to a younger version of himself. But it's not a slam dunk case by any stretch.

If you wanted to take the idea that the force ghost looks like the person when they died to be literal, then we would have to acknowledge that Ben should have appeared beheaded.  The only interpretation that is consistent within the OOT only, is that the ghost appears as remembered or idolized by the viewer.

^^^^ This... especially idolised or as remembered by the viewer.... That is why Hayden makes no sense at all... Anyway enough said....  Perhaps the ghostbusters should show up at the end and do what they do best.

Do you think we should swap Alec Guiness for Ewan Mc#greggor and the Yoda Puppet from TPM at the end as force ghosts?

daneditor said:

Random thoughts while watching the rough cut:

I like the idea of the opening scene but as the main characters aren't included I think it needs to be a lot shorter, something more reminiscent of the first scene of Empire

I like Yoda handing Luke the green crystal for his lightsaber

I'd cut the exposition scene of the droids walking to the palace, cut from deleted scene to them getting to the big door

I fear you're biting off more than you can chew with this edit; some seriously ambitious stuff in the first few minutes that will take uber cgi and compositing skills

Jabba's 'What is it' should end with a ?

Less Salacious frikkin' Crumb would be better

I like the idea of Palps' new first scene

I'd make lots of cuts to the Jabba sequence to make it seem less kiddy, Han less lame and the whole thing a bit pacier

Interesting use of the sandstorm scene, works well

Surprised to see the Wicket/Leia scene - it's usually about the first thing editors cut

Just thinking out loud here: I wonder if there's some way to make Threepio's story to the Ewoks more cinematic, maybe with flashbacks or something

Not sure about the ROTS flashback - if one of the themes of the film is Vader wrestling with how he's been dehumanised etc, the theme should be established in act one

I don't think the Skywalkers' shuttle landing in the DS hangar bay is necessary - it reminds me of Lucas' bad changes to Empire

I like the shot of the Falcon's turret window looking out on star destroyers during the battle, although it's unclear who's in there using the gun

If you're gonna cut out ghost Anakin you should probably crop the shot so Yoda and Obi Wan are centre frame

I don't think the ending works, it doesn't really go anywhere; probably better to end on Endor

Interesting edit, gonna be a lot of work to get some of these concepts fleshed out. I'd personally choose to cut a lot more childish Jabba and Ewok stuff - but since it's well beyond two hours now I think that's possible and it'll still clock in around a couple of hours.

I also think the Fett storyline doesn't make much sense - he's in the opening scene working for the Empire, then goes to Jabba's palace, then gets his head chopped off. I still think it's best that he's not in the film, as he doesn't really do anything, and has no arc at all.

An idea off the top of my head: there are a couple of fan films with decent footage of Mandalorians attacking stormtroopers in a forest, so what if somehow the rebels paid the Mandalorians to fight for them as mercenaries (think: the ghosts fighting for Aragorn in ROTK) and during the battle Fett died as a kind of anti-hero, then he would have an arc that could work. But I imagine that would be better in a non-Ewok cut.

Anyway, good luck!

Thanks for the feedback on these points... To be honest with you... I have tried to avoid relentless cutting that some editors do and just shrug there shoulders and say I'm getting rid of it alltogether and there is not much of the original left so whilst trying to make subtle cuts and keep the feeling of the original I've also tried to expand upon and make some things a bit more paletteable like leia and wicket for example at present you cannot have ROTJ without Ewoks so If you can't beat em join em...

I quite like the Jabbas palace scenes, where as alot of people dislike alot of elements to it, I actually really like Jabba as a character and salacious his little parasite sidekick but I take your points onboard and part of the main reasons I have done cut's and additions is plot considerations not wether I personally like somthing or not as that is perhaps discounting alot of the original source material and just writing it off if you just don't like it.

I did not want to be too ruthless with cutting stuff alot of others may enjoy...

The opening I did was really very difficult to try to pull off and I understand your opinion just trying to join the dots in the plot.. I hope somone could come up with somthing along these lines that is better yes it is ambitious but you may aswell go in big and see what happens.

ROTJ is not ROTJ without Boba Fett in it IMO that ruins any edit immediatley of ROTJ as I said before thats a big shrug to cut him just because he has a lame death scene so I'd tried to make his death a bit better but I understand why he gets cut I just cannot understand why people don't try harder to keep him in.

Boba fett never had a story arc ever he is just a henchman

I think I should cut both the flashbacks but it was meant to be a duelism between luke and Vader in this version. Experimenting really

ROTJ is still a good movie just not as good as the other 2 in the trilogy and the moral dilemma I have had in trying to come up with somthing that works has been enormously challenging whilst not wanting to make ruthless cuts where I feel I may or may not like somthing or somthing works or does not work and trying to craft somthing a bit different whilst still trying to keep it close to it's roots without losing alot of what people hold dear to there childhood memories.... And this is as far as I got

Don't know what to do about the end but if it's not working it aint working I will continue the search for the missing ingredient but it will go If I cannot find anything that helps it conclude on the notes that I want it to.

So I got another trial downloaded with a new account of CS5 and I plan to properly finish the story board cut I have been working on as after reviewing it myself I would like to make quite a few changes to it.... I want to cut a couple of small  things back but more than anything I want to show the struggle they go through to storm the death star which I had no time to do before my trial expired.

Basically I'm planning to do 40 secs to a minute of Ballistic mayhem in AE

This will Consist mainly of footage of rebel ships (I plan to show x-wing a-wing b-wing and y-wing) and pilots racing across the deathstar being pursued by ties with some being taken down along the way it will not be a dogfight and this will lead to entering the exhaust port / service tunnel

Adding Death star gun turrets

More Falcon Gun Turret action with ties in pursuit and towards them across the surface of DSII

Tie cockpits and Huds and stormtrooper flyboys

add the B-WING mon-calamari pilot

Rebel Comms Chatter - Anyone who wants to send me a few audio lines they think might work after reading the description I'd be happy to mess about with it. But record it in a quiet environment I don't want any background noise please because it might sound terrible when effects are added

Other ideas

Perhaps show An attack on the emperors throne room tower

The falcon flying between 2 Big gun turrets and a pursuing tie crashing

Showing the deathstar power up sequence to fire before the power fails on superlaser and jejerrod and show him giving the order to fire too

tightening up the end of the cut and finding the lines I need

replace all pan and scan footage and footage with logos in the cut with widescreen footage to keep the continuity as It's bugging me aswell as others I am sure

If anyone wants to add anything to this please give me your suggestions

daneditor said:

Ronster, I'm glad you enjoyed the edit. I agree that it's a little short, but I think the pacing is pretty good throughout, and at the time (it was about a year ago I was originally working on it) there weren't any deleted scenes and I didn't realise that there were fan films that had usable footage.

Re: your edit. Sure, it sounds interesting, I'd like to take a look at it.

Darth_Ender: yeah, I really like that moment. It's from a trailer for a fan film called Holo Xperience, and it looks like it's a current project - unlike Tydirium which seems to have been abandoned. I reckon there may have been enough footage, if Tydirium had been released, to completely ditch the Ewoks from the film.

Sent you a link... Agreed you did well, and the pacing was good... This is why I respect your edit alot because that has to be one of the main concerns and you showed that and did not leave any plot gaps.

darth_ender said:

Trying to address a few things: Ronster, I'm not really a big fan of most of Jabba's altered lines.  The only one that maybe sounds equal or better is, "Now we will deal with you."

Also regarding wrapping up the brother/sister plot point, I think if you'd prefer that Luke not tell Leia, then that addition to the end does nothing but slow down the ending.  I just perhaps she doesn't even ever need to know--she just loves Han in the end.

The whole thing with the ships jumping to hyperspace in the end is not my ideal ending, but I have to admit that it's pretty cool.  I'll include it in the vote.

I also admit that I am laughing at what you did with Jerjerrod.  The shield goes down, the Executor crashes into the Death Star, and then the Imperial officer replaces Ric Olie as the new Captain Obvious by telling Jerjerrod that "the shield is down."  I must admit that I skimmed that point and missed it.  That's pretty darn funny!  However, I like how you rearranged some of the shots with the amount of damage to the Death Star seemingly far more as a result of the Executor's crash, and I like that Jerjerrod orders the fleet to take a defensive position around the Death Star.  However, it's clear that you didn't want the Death Star to fire on Endor, something that I think improves the tension in the film drastically.  And I personally like my own portrayal of his demise better.

As always, it's constructive criticism, but that's what I feel.  And while I don't always agree with your ideas, that doesn't mean I think they are bad.  They're just not what I would do.

I liked a lot of the additional battle shots you added, though I know they are just to convey ideas.  

Thanks for the feedback D and no offense taken, I understand that you see things different to myself, like I said it was meant to be a what about this?

Jabbas lines where just a bit of experimentation really was not sure myself how they work but my favourite has to be "you'll regret this we have powerfull friends" and jabba saya "No I won't princess" and licks her face lol

No I did not want the deathstar to fire on Endor... I just think mutiny would occur before out and out suicide especially when the rebels are still outnumbered just because the shield has already gone down from the Endor surface it's too drastic to resort to somthing like that under the conditions I assume the plan would have been to call off this once luke had been turned... But It makes little sense as the tension is lost because everyone dies in this eventuality and I preferred to portray Jejerrod as a paniced weed without the emperor there to fire his orders at him... To see him fall apart and it made me lol I think you meant to say that the superlaser looses it's power generators after the executor crashes into DSII

Luke not telling leia is the main theme really of the edit in a sense this is still unfinished and needs some extra lines for the emotional payoff specifically revealing that Luke was right about his father whilst telling leia she is his sister. So I understand because I would need to manipulate lines or use the radio drama or dub somthing to reach the conclusion which leaves leia gobsmacked and becomes more her story rather than lukes after this point. It's also meant to make Vader more a real human being and a cool down after the celebrations. You might be right somtimes less is more but I'd like to get some other opinions on this too

Why should we feel that there is no need for the rebels after ROTJ  so I wanted to do a "to be continued...." feel to the end even though there is no sequel

Edit: Getting another trial of CS5 I've got unfinished business with the space battle it's bugging me I never managed to finish all the shots I was hoping to mock-up and I'm sure it will be fun and I just have to see the ties racing after the rebels over DSII surface  with rebels biting the dust so I'm doing it and some other space battle shots too...

If anyone can tell me where i can get footage of mon cal cruisers I'll be happy :)

daneditor said:

Here's the rebels landing on Endor with some footage from a fan film added, just to see how it would look:

http://www.mediafire.com/?xi8zqacj064kkff

Hey dan editor, I watched your cut of ROTJ and I enjoyed it although I thought it was a bit short you hit the right notes and nothing was left unexplained It was solid but I especially liked how you wrapped up the end it was nice... That clip is interesting and works well going to check the sandstorm one in a bit...

I did a cut of ROTJ and I think It might interest you especially if you are dabbling with ideas like that clip above so If you would like to see a different perspective I'll provide you the link it's not Vgood quality it's more a storyboard at present but still it's watchable so let me know if this interests you... I took some inspiration from you on changing jabbas lines and the speeder bike not making that whirring sound and the different point of view cut to obiwan on dagobah. 

I did use your cut for the leia getting shot in the arm and the stormtroopers without the "I love you" "I know call back but I now plan to take this back to just having leia shot in the arm... Anyway as I said good work It was enjoyable to watch.

watched the sandstorm edit and you got the sounds synched up well it just don't work for some reason but great work and hope to see more of your ideas in the future I choose just to use luke with this and having him walk away from the lars homestead would plan to film somone as the back of his head with matching clothes on a matte

darth_ender said:

It's good food.  My other thought was if we couldn't have Fett face Han, maybe Lando could take him out.  Perhaps we could have Boba involved in the space battle, and perhaps when the shield is taken out, Boba could head to the surface to face off with Han.

Still engaging in a firefight with Han would be tricky.  Maybe the Death Star is the way to go.  It'd be a more glorious end for the infamous bounty hunter than his original, that's for sure.

Whilst the idea is good and in theory it works but it makes Boba Fett practically part of the empire and that is not what he is.... He's a mercenary... So it would make more sense him being contracted to hunt them down on Endor than chase the falcon through the tunnels of DSII... Even though he is the coolest star wars character it would add nothing to have him flying through DSII although it's interesting idea it's simply swapping him for a tie-fighter..

It would be tough to show him hunting down Han on Endor and TBH he does not have anything against him as per say he only got hired to catch him for Jabba so there is no revenge story either Jabbas dead so who would he be working for?

Nobody from the empire knows Han / Chewie / Leia is on the shuttle tydirium only luke is known to be on the mission because Vader senses him and he gives himself up. Very difficult to join the dots on this thats all I'm saying

put it this way if somone killed your boss would you want to chase them down on a revenge hunt or would you simply go work for somone else and the only somone else is the empire who don't know Han / Leia / Chewie are there

actually can I rephrase dog fighting to shots of ships passing gun towers on DSII surface an ties coming towards them perhaps blasting there way through them before entering the service tunnel... Thats more what I had in mind

just a thought but some star tours 1 footage might actually look better in a tie fighter cockpit like chasing them laterall thinking and this would be much better now I think of it

darth_ender said:

Hey, don't stress.  You didn't use Star Tours 1 footage either.  The quality is low on these videos.  I've emailed asking for permission to use some of their footage, but I have a feeling they will say no if they say anything at all.  But we might get lucky and get a decent quality source.  Who knows?

As for your ideas, I'm still thinking about the specifics you mentioned.  I'll get back to you.

I have a falcon cockpit shot of star tours 1 that I did before my trial ran out but It ended before I got to put an x-wing cockpit on so I would not export for some reason and besides I felt that it needed some dog fight action before entering DSII which would have made sense just a small amount then the ties following them in also would make alot more sense... Falcon cockpit worked ok but needed to be an x-wing I felt. the only bit that worked well was where it pulled up away past the tower before heading for the trench.. Hey I ran out of time and wanted to call it somwhere like I said... It's not there yet is it... So Challenging ROTJ

even you know I wanted to do that but yeah i have fell short on this..

damn I would have used that shot of them running from the AT-ST if I had of seen that one good find D! Oh god here we go again!

I can already see that I will have to make a revised storyboard cut what you trying to do to me D?

darth_ender said:

Interesting cut, Ron.  You did good work.  I am already putting your new opening and the worms in the sand up for vote, and many of the other ideas you incorporated were already voted on and/or incorporated into the script.  Again, is there anything you want me to put up that I didn't think of?

Too bad I didn't see anymore Rebel footage.  I did send an email out to a guy who was making a fan film (now apparently on hiatus) that included commandos to see if he has anything useful he might be willing to share.  Awaiting a response.

Guys, I think the hardest parts of our edit would be the actual filming of new material.  Therefore I want to keep my eyes open for new footage we could use instead of filming our own.  Anyone interested in seeking out new stuff would be appreciated.

Saw this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw_VPREHnpY

It has a bunch of dudes in Fett armor, set in a forest.  It occurs to me, as I'd mentioned it long ago, that it would be more interesting for Boba Fett to try and take out Han on Endor.  I don't know if this could be worked into our plans, but it just keeps me thinking.  I really feel like that would be the most fitting fate for Fett (alliterative fun!).  Still pondering, and I think there is something that could actually be made useful here...

I don't know really If I should ask you to include my ideas that I had for how things play out because It clashes with what you wan't to do and I do not want to cause you setbacks from the path you feel you are on.... What do you think?

Do you like what I did with Jejerrod and the space battle? I lol Did you think it worked?

Jabbas lines? Luke and leia siblings and how it wraps up?

Did you like the way it ended?

I don't know what to make of your summing up of Interesting your probably still pondering it... I'd like to know what you think even if you hated it lol... But I don't think you did :)

So I don't mind feedback but try not to spoil it for anyone that potentially might want to watch it... or PM me on it and let me know that way if you like if you want to go into detail about a certain aspect ... But most of all thanks for watching :)

darth_ender said:

Watching Ronster's cut now, and I have to admit there are interesting ideas there.  While I personally want to keep the opening the way we already have it, I really like what Ron did with this one.  Very exciting, fast paced, and informative in that it tells us how the Rebels get the plans.  Again, not my preferred opening, but a well-thought alternative.

I'm at the Battle of Endor now, and I'm wondering where Ron got some of the Rebel commando footage!?  This sort of thing would truly be helpful and save us some work if we can find decent size quantities of it.  Ronster's shots were very brief, but potentially useful.  Hoping for more.  I'm going to keep watching.

yeah I kept that one quiet :) It is only a place holder but it is from Tydirium the fan film teaser these guys are from germany so perhaps they could help get some shots done as they did pretty good costumes for the rebel commandos.... Although this has been in production for years

Glad your doing it all in one hit! This is was what I was hoping people would do to get the bigger picture... The opening again is more or less a placeholder although a big one very hard to do that with what I was working with but seems so far you are enjoying it :) and that is what I wanted to achieve somthing people could enjoy as a whole idea and not just a bunch of ideas... The ending needs touching / tightening up like I said I ran out of energy but I hope it puts a smile onto your face :) either way.

I have you to thank D for the inspiration on adding Jejerrod but I did it totally different for some reason I keep standing up at the end of space battle and wanting to go wooohoo!

edit: ok I did stand up and go woohoo! but keep it quiet

it's a tricky one what ever the decision is you are screwed with anakin force ghost but the safest bet is to keep it as the person it was originally intended upon it's first release

I think D is right that you cannot have both young and old as you would essentially be pissing off both sides on this matter as opposed to trying to keep people happy it would have the reverse effect

I got rid of him alltogether which again could be construed as upsetting both sides but I hope that people will understand the reasons behind it.

fishmanlee said:

Here is a more ironed out version of my Rancor pit video: http://www.peeje.com/files/358910871/SWEP6_The_Rancor_RESCORED.wmv.html

It's a definate improvement on this rescore I think the beats at the end are grea which go with each cut after the gate slams downt shame it lacks the sound effects and cheering in the mix to really show what this would be like.

aalenfae said:

As long as people are posting cuts and such, I thought I'd post what I just finished last night - a mockup for Anakin's ghost appearing personally to Luke, and not with Obi-Wan and Yoda:
http://vimeo.com/36883170

Good work alanfae... It's well executed how you put the flames on Vaders mouth I really liked that touch... Although I think you put the wrong anakin in but you see for me that bloke from the PT is an imposter so I'd like to talk you into doing a sebastian shaw too but I don't expect you to. Thats what I don't like about the anakin force ghost as dominic previously stated in the thread before it's not even about who it is it becomes who it was / when and why it's been changed there is so much division over the matter....

but none the less great work the way the idea has been executed is great.

Anyone who is interested seeing the rough cut I made can contact me via PM and I will send you the links it contains many references to the script aswell as some of my own ideas.

I fixed it I am trying to get it uploaded now so should be good in 30 mins

Damn none of the subtitles came out

darth_ender said:

Yeah, I think every editor must say that.  Wow, Ron, you've really put a lot of work into this.  I'm sure it will be helpful.  I'll give people a few days to review it before putting up the vote.  Let me know if there are specific aspects you want me to put up, since I can't imagine voting on every little detail.

I can't think about the changes there are just too many to list It would take me a whole day to list them I think...like an essay... there are so many things moved cut and added This cut is for reference I did my best and I flaked out at the celebrations a bit... but the ideas and cuts are all there so It's worth a go but certainly needs more tightening at the very end and in places but I have to call it somewhere and this is it... I won't be doing another rough take or amending anything it's now over and complete for me on this rough storyboard take.

I cannot spend anymore time with this now but will partake in voting and stuff for sure.

I ripped out ROTJ's guts and handed it back in a bag :) I don't even know if the main idea works as well as I would like it to now but there is a better way to do the celebrations at the end for sure. It is very heavy editing cut but somehow not alot is lost.

I followed the script Very close in alot of things but deviated where I felt I wanted to go in a different direction

darth_ender said:

That's great, Ronster.  I'm really looking forward to seeing it.  Ronster, what timezone are you in?  I've been wondering when on earth you actually get any sleep.

GMT it's 7.15pm here and I've been going since 8.00am and I did from 6pm until 11:30pm last night I have alot of work on rest of this week and next so I had to get it done and now finally I can say I did it... Most involved project I think I have ever undertaken as a hobby project.

I don't know If I can even face watching it... I've had far too big a dose of Return of the jedi

ok I'm done and exporting it now yipeee I'm free The end is a bit shabby I ran out of steam but it is done finally

2hrs 20mins 36secs I reckon this could be trimmed back anyway

darth_ender said:

Hey Ron, I'm getting kind of anxious to move on with the vote.  After this vote is settled, I'm backing off for a while, and I really need to back off as soon as possible.  I hope you're okay if I put the vote up some time this week.  I know you've been working on your rough edit.  How much more time do you need?

Today.... Hopefully the next few hours I want to come away too from doing so much work but I also want to finish what I started over 2 months ago it's been an interesting journey that is for sure and the end is in sight...

Jaitea said:

Rough:

J

yep that's certainly more along the right lines for palps... I think that looks wicked

I imagine david hasslehoff is under one of the imperial guards uniforms

So I have some good news I should have my complete storyboard rough cut done by tomorrow I did not touch some of the scenes I thought I would make cuts to but I did change some of jabbas dialogue could not resist it tbh anyway,,,

I am running at 2hrs 6.42 at present and growing at a guess I think it will be 2hrs15mins and thats without some of the proposed space battle stuff included All the cuts I planned I have now made so I only have to add from here. so I am hoping that it will balance at about the original running time of 134mins

nearly done and it's a relief I'll try to write a changelist but there is so much it's mind boggling at present