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Ronster

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Post
#639676
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

I think the Wampa's were meant to feature more heavily (deleted scene) which was in the original script which got cut for obvious reasons.

I think you are right that to avoid halting filming all together the Wampa cave scene was created so they could film Mark Hamill and his injuries as a way to explain why he had all the cuts on his face. And to get the location shoot done. But it was in the original script but was altered slightly for marks injuries.

There also seemed to be a sequence where Luke uses his Blaster after the cave?... Wether it was to shoot a probe droid or at the Wampa still pursuing even though he just had his arm chopped off... Or perhaps he nearly shoots Han who was coming to rescue him.... Someone on here might know though I have no idea.

I wonder if this footage will ever get released... or is it in Jambee Davdars building empire?

Trying to be helpfull found some good mattes from superman returns check these.

 

And this Finemolds' 1/72 scale Y-wing  on a ice field hmmmm...

Is that the same models Ady is using? simply because I remember the scale factor... They look really good when put into a backdrop

this is the guys photo stream

https://www.flickr.com/photos/avanaut/

Post
#639667
Topic
The Star Wars: The Lost Workprint (* unfinished project - lots of info *)
Time

http://www.anyclip.com/movies/it-came-from-outer-space/spaceship-crash/

Death Star? (in Hyperspace)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjXwsj8kHT4

V2 Rocket = death star weapon of mass destruction? or perhaps just for the pre launch sequence using the shots here instead of original death star laser operators?

Just ideas

Post
#639581
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

I have a bit of a hazy recollection I know the original version up until luke cuts himself down and then it all goes a bit iffy.

It just goes to show you the damage that get's done by changing something and only serving up that one version for a long period of time.

I believe you it's been butchered, and I know it's basically been cocked up for the SE.

Really Glad to hear that one is going... So I am on a similar page at least...

As for the Music and Sound suggestions, although I can not remember the whole state of the original version.. After watching the scene with your color correction so many times, I kept asking myself what is it... Even though it's not the original version or "your proper version" what is it that is killing this scene in terms of my emotional response.

I can not remember how the original was scored but I seem to remember a rise when we see the glimpse go past the hole in the cave wall of the wampa. but the fan fare is still there.

I work in Audio Visual for live events, and I come from a music background and started becoming involved in an amatuer level at 16 I am now 36 and make a humble living off of sound and video projection although not top of the draw sound engineer I don't do concerts or music biz I mainly do corporate stuff.

In my opinion the sound is wrong  not in terms of how it sounds but the emotions it evokes... And also in terms of basic monster rules it's better to not to hear him until he needs to be heard. A more silent cave would be a better way to go... And keep the monster a little more mysterious... Giving the scene a bit of time to breathe. Also I think Luke should take the back seat on the music front... We are in the Wampa's Lair it should be focused on him and not about lukes heroics

It's up to you what you do Adywan, I don't have a problem... I do however want for it like you to be more like the original... But better and that does not mean doing my ideas but what ever it takes to make it better than even the original...

I think it's fair comment... I do hope you have a play with the sound in this scene and see what comes... Sound is everything when it comes to monsters... But I urge you to have a go yourself with it and see what comes. 

 

Post
#639564
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

I think you are right about the camera trickery employed in the scene Asteroid...

I have also wondered about the arm swipe thats been reversed (played normally and roto in) could be used to show a light sabre coming in to frame briefly before we see the shot of the arm fall on the floor severed to make it more visible what is happening...?

I think your right it looks weird the shot but it is passable. I totally noticed it.

The shot prior to this one is worse I think (only my opinion so don't bash me)

I was wondering if it could be zoomed and do a pan or something to make it look better or just to lose this one perhaps....Not sure if this one is specific to the SE or not or it contradicts the SE additions?

as it actually seems like he is approaching from a different point when we first see him loom into frame when luke cuts himself down.

sorry to say it but although the wampa cave is iconic I think it is perhaps the worst scene in ESB after watching it a lot of times it fell apart in many ways and I am normally pretty lenient with stuff...(special edition mind)

I don't hate it at all, just would actually love to see it work a lot better in general

That also said I have not seen the GOUT of ESB in so many years now but I do miss the shadow on the wall and hope that makes it back in for revisited.

Post
#639225
Topic
The Star Wars: The Lost Workprint (* unfinished project - lots of info *)
Time

well I think the only place it could go is if you had silence after Han shoots greedo and as he's paying his bill it could perhaps come in at the end....

That is probably the only place it could go and even then it's a bit sketchy but It's got the right notes for cantina... Otherwise it would be too much agreed. 

It came from the desert freaked me out

Post
#639197
Topic
The Star Wars: The Lost Workprint (* unfinished project - lots of info *)
Time

I have a music suggestion for the cantina... I hope you like it but it's on a loop but would require looping some more perhaps.

It's the menu theme music to the amiga computer game - Shufflepuck cafe

the theme is at 0:47 in the video below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pUmfxM9h54

It's a piano piece but there was always something a bit cantina about it... Anyway that's my suggestion but only as a short not for a long looped piece.

The sequel is now called shufflepuck cantina and uses the cantina tune but I thought I would post this one for nostalgia.

I just had another idea is there any chance of having some WW2 style propaganda footage about the empire with stiff upper lip English accent... Might work well?

trying to recruit rebels in to service while damning the empire as the root of all evil. "Your Galaxy needs you" that type of stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpJsw1jyvNE

Post
#639098
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

Jaitea said:

I looked at the clip again Ronster & I know what you mean, but there's so much happenining at that moment, there are sinister stabs through the Force theme which acknowledge the threat of the Wampa, but the Rebel Fanfare is the relief  from the tension.

J

Thanks guys for understanding, I was feeling like a bit of a nutter... But it took me a long time to realize that the sound and score are potential tools to utilize to improve upon what is there...

I'll be honest and say I don't really feel much tension in the Wampa Cave now being adult and I don't feel the need for the musical relief fan fare.

As soon as Wampas Arm get's chopped off the score reverts back to darker tones again...

I am just glad that people finally understand what I was trying to say... But that was probably my bad communication skills earlier as I was having a hard time getting the point over.

Post
#639033
Topic
LV_426, (Prometheus fanedit) (Released)
Time

Is there any way you can show in this edit more of the symbolism behind the derelict and the goddess nut?

Pronounced (noot).

It'a  real major thing that I wanted explored.

 

Nut was the goddess of the sky.She was seen as arching over the earth, protecting it

A sacred symbol of Nut was the ladder, used by Osiris to enter her heavenly skies. This ladder-symbol was called maqet and was placed in tombs to protect the deceased

Jacobs Ladder from spirit to matter and matter to spirit in conjunction with the signs of the zodiacin our galaxy

she Who Holds a Thousand Souls: Because of her role in the re-birthing of Ra every morning and in her son Osiris's resurrection, Nut became a key god in many of the myths about the after-life

Nut was the goddess of the sky and all heavenly bodies, a symbol of protecting the dead when they enter the after life. According to the Egyptians, during the day, the heavenly bodies—such as the sun and moon—would make their way across her body. Then, at dusk, they would be swallowed, pass through her belly during the night, and be reborn at dawn

Nut is also the barrier separating the forces of chaos from the ordered cosmos in the world .

 

hieroglyphic script was held to have been invented by the god Thoth, and the hieroglyphs themselves were powerful. Written words conveyed the full force of a spell.[19] This was even true when the text was abbreviated or omitted, as often occurred in later Book of the Dead scrolls, particularly if the accompanying images were present.[20] The Egyptians also believed that knowing the name of something gave power over it; thus, the Book of the Dead equips its owner with the mystical names of many of the entities he would encounter in the afterlife, giving him power of them.[21]

The spells of the Book of the Dead made use of several magical techniques which can also be seen in other areas of Egyptian life. A number of spells are for magical amulets, which would protect the deceased from harm. In addition to being represented on a Book of the Dead papyrus, these spells appeared on amulets wound into the wrappings of a mummy.[17] Everyday magic made use of amulets in huge numbers. Other items in direct contact with the body in the tomb, such as headrests, were also considered to have amuletic value.[22] A number of spells also refer to Egyptian beliefs about the magical healing power of saliva

The path to the afterlife as laid out in the Book of the Dead was a difficult one. The deceased was required to pass a series of gates, caverns and mounds (pyrimid) guarded by supernatural creatures.[39] These terrifying entities were armed with enormous knives and are illustrated in grotesque forms, typically as human figures with the heads of animals or combinations of different ferocious beasts. Their names—for instance, "He who lives on snakes" or "He who dances in blood"—are equally grotesque. These creatures had to be pacified by reciting the appropriate spells included in the Book of the Dead; once pacified they posed no further threat, and could even extend their protection to the dead person.[40] Another breed of supernatural creatures was 'slaughterers' who killed the unrighteous on behalf of Osiris; the Book of the Dead equipped its owner to escape their attentions.[41] As well as these supernatural entities, there were also threats from natural or supernatural animals, including crocodiles, snakes, and beetles

Basically it was a type of purgatory the spells were used to ease the passage against these encounters to await final judgement by osiris son of nut.

Also let's not forget the sarcofogi the SJ's use....And how man would have copied this ritual to preserve the kings as the SJ's prolonged their life in Hypersleep or dormant chambers.

Epic post but what do you think of this Symbolism?

and is there anyway to incorporate this line of thought into the edit to give it more explaination.

Perhaps even an old documentary? Basically all this I posted above seems that there was a large influence on Eyjptian mythology used when creating the mythos in Alien and Prometheus... wanted to make it more pronounced that is all.

Rather than Lawrence of arabia perhaps an egyptian history lesson would be better... Just an Idea...Anyway.

 

Post
#639023
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

do you think it could be done better then?

That was what I was trying to get across and I agree... And I appreciate that tinkering and tampering is sometimes taboo on some things.....I guess I am just sick of the Wampa being treated like a joke... I'd like to feel a bit scared again like when I was a kid... If that makes any sense... Basically doing what ever possible to make the wampa cave make me feel something like that again.

Kids today don't even scare as easy as we did back then. And this was the motive for the re-scoring suggestion.

I used to run and Hide when the Hulk (Bill Bixby) used to change the Wampa never was up there with this but It could be. I used to love the Hulk aswell did not stop me from watching it I just had to hide at this point where he turned for a while.

Bill Bixby = fine

Hulk = fine

Half hulk / half Bill = Run like a looney behind the sofa and hide

Post
#639020
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

I am not saying you should change anything... I'm merely pointing out that If the Wampa was given a bit more respect in terms of the score it could perhaps improve upon what is there already.

Who and what to score to in the cave.... as 2 things happen simultaneously and which should take precedence?

What do you think fishmanlee?

Ben's death is not comparable... It works and hits the right emotinal tone... Nothing wrong with it Leia knew Ben better than Luke and he sacrificed himself to save them all.

Post
#639014
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

This is another problem with the scene.... That's where I am hoping the puppet comes in to fix this?

Did anyone agree that the cave should be re-scored to the monster i.e. Wampa and try to loose the hero theme entirely (Luke Theme)?

I appreciate the original pre special edition more of Wampa Cave, but using john williams score of Jaws as an example it sounds nothing like Lukes theme or Superman of what the music should be doing when a monster is coming to get you.

Can you imagine what Jaws would have been with Luke sykwalkers theme or a fan fare added whenever the shark was approaching...

The issue is that you have a hero moment at exactly the same time that the monster springs out... And that was what I was wondering about that trade off that should the focus of the music not be on the monster at this point rather than lukes heroics? the Rancor scene does not suffer this because the beast get's his appearance and then luke deals with him (hero moment).... In the Wampa cave both happen simultaneously

I am not pushing for the inclusion of any of my  ideas or suggestions but that was what I was trying to get at with the video I did although it was really rough and unfinished and perhaps the point I was trying to make got lost. And I was only exploring for improvements really

Post
#638828
Topic
The Salute of the Jugger: Extended Version (a.k.a The Blood of Heroes) starring Rutger Hauer (1989) (Released)
Time

I really like this film...

Never heard that music before at the begining..... I would be interested in seeing this though if you ever get around to finishing it off or doing something with it.

Top tip = if you added that music it does not work try to stick with the OST or re-use another track of the OST if you can find it

came across this the other day and might work in this film

Earth Floor by Michael Brook and Brian Eno

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35jRNluLBTo

Michael Brook - Skip Wave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl5YwtoCqno

Post
#638458
Topic
TRON: LIBERTY *** QUICK UPDATE *** (* unfinished project *)
Time

Have you thought about adding any music artist in apart from daft punk?

something like this?

https://vimeo.com/34917818

saturn strobe - Pantha du prince

or going much further back as this is quite recent track...Thinking with a retro mind

I have a good knowledge of electronic music spanning back decades and may be able to help you find some good pieces rather than rehashing a sequels music into this one.

This is an interesting idea though...

The PC Game Tron 2.0 has good sound effects in it if you needed to extract sound effects and dialogue.

PM for any music suggestions if you like would be happy to help I have the movie also to watch here if you want a scene suggested I will see what I can come up with.

Post
#638231
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

fishmanlee said:

I know why Ronster is doing this, he is trying to bait Ady into showing a clip his Wampa scene ;)

This will be my last post for a while but happy birthday for next week Ady spotted it was your birthday on one of your youtube clips...

Darth editus very funny hope you enjoyed incredibly crap video but the concept is there

and sorry for taking up so much space here recently

and no I'm not doing anything to get anything back in return fishmanlee

Post
#638214
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

adywan said:

The original cut of the cave scene is perfect, along with the  music. It's only when you get to the butchered Special Edition version that this scene falls apart.

We have to hear the Wampa roaring in the background. It sets up the peril. If it was silent apart from ambient sounds then it would just look like Luke was just trying to escape from a cave. There is no threat there at all. It's the Wampa's roaring that wakes Luke. Hearing the Wampa getting closer and seeing just a part of him as he approaches builds the tension. Is Luke going to be able to escape in time?

But then they ruined this for the Special Edition. It's the whole Jaws thing. If they had been able to do a better shark then it would have been on screen more and the film wouldn't have had the same impact. And this was proved with all the extra Wampa footage. Sometimes the limitations of technology at the time can create something perfect.

So the scene will be as it was in 1980 but with a new Wampa added in a couple of shots.

I realize the only way I will get this across is by doing a very rough experiment cut to try to show you what I mean... If you think it's crap that is fine don't bash me though... I want to see your Wampa don't get me wrong... It's so hard to explain this on the page.. Bear in mind it's extremely rough only to get the concept over.

Of course it's your edit and you can do what you like with it but I am trying to get a different concept over to you to consider and it's proving too difficult to put on paper... With a bit more work your puppet and changing the sound mix I think it would be much more enhanced than even the original. Concept video in link below

https://vimeo.com/65751708

Post
#638185
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

The Nerd said:

Ronster said:

I don't want to harp on about the dripping icicle but if you think about sound in the wampa cave. The sound is the main problem.

This is something that I've always found wrong, the no sound in the cave i mean. Snow winds and cave sounds can be made simply by setting up a recording device and running your hand over the carpet, using a tooth brush on a slab of wood, recording a sound (and turning the sound down). Combine these and BOOM!!! You have a snow storm. Though, more sounds may need to be recorded if you want new sounds in the storm.

you right... I have been focusing so much on inside the cave there is a snow storm meant to be going on also snow storm ambience too especially when we see luke upside down.

Regarding john williams score it's fine right at the start with the tension strings and as soon as the wampas arm get's chopped off but everything pretty much everything in between I think more or less fails the sting when he first goes to grab his sabre is also ok.

I'll cite the begining and end as williams score to be kept perhaps and any noises luke makes and the wampa once he shows himself.

It's practically a total rebuild of the sound mix

Post
#638166
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

no problem, I was just trying to identify what the issues with the scene are...And it is the sound mix in my opinion and seeing the wampa before he springs out.

My suggestions are only that nothing more...Argue them all you like... I am not claiming to be right just exploring ideas... I hope it gives other people ideas also.

Post
#638144
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

I don't want to harp on about the dripping icicle but if you think about sound in the wampa cave. The sound is the main problem.

If you play the sound of a dripping icicle off (and visually represented) against luke trying to pull his sabre out of the ice and it's really quiet in the cave.

As far as the musical score goes it might need playing with also to get the right effect.

without going too overboard elements of retro synth for otherworldly feel here could be what is actually needed rather than lukes theme and Willams score mostly removed along with the wampa groaning.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ho097qauXN4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh0laxfU5zc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvGmQcUvaxc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry6oY0oGAZ0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXM1IGiEhyk

here are some arp odyssey sounds. and I only mean minimal use of something like this in a sfx capacity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4SbDBGc2BY

at 3.46 

ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHRgCKgbiVk

0.03 /2.42 / 5.07

Horror fx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh6L44rVaas

01.35 on this one is great

Although giving many examples I mean very minimal use of any sound it has to be quiet

Luke does not know if the wampa is there or not because we can not hear him at all moaning or groaning constantly like he's committing suicide. we also don't see him until he springs out from wherever he comes from.

Luke trying to be quiet will be greatly enhanced, and all that can be played with in this sequence is fear of the unknown that is the angle.

That was what I was trying to get at here, sorry but this train of thought has taken it's time to come to fruition and explain it more properly.

a lot easier said than done though probably