Ronster

ben_danger said:

Can you imagine the tension if the car chase was flipped? So they were rushing to save padme?

Pretty Good call... 

Not trying to dampen your idea it is a good one :)

The conversation probably is not needed outside the room... But the only potential problem I see with it is that they are assigned to protect her so why are they rushing to get there in a car, like they have been off doing something they should not have?

But it certainly might work, not saying it won't

I agree with you nightstalkerpoet that looking over the films and analysis of the PT can start to get you excited for PT:R I also think it is needed right now perhaps to spur some more interest in what people might notice or just kick some ideas about.

It's good to thrash these films out a bit

I am trying to get some creative juices flowing on this thread and actually the main purpose for me at least for a while as my work is quiet is to realize the Prequel Trilogy "OTified"

Not a real word but I like "OTified" to describe what can be done to make the PT feel more like the OT.

________________________________________________________

I wanted to add to this post but would it not be better for the whole PT if we never saw the Emperor until ROTS and only Palpatine as it is pretty obvious who he is.. It does not take sherlock holmes to figure out....

Like not see Sidious until Mace Windu threatens to kill him.

I doubt it's possible or atleast removal of all hologram communication and have only radio messages would help that to work making him more conspicuous with only senator / chancellor palpatine getting screen time until the end.

Probably already suggested anyway I thought I would put it forward

I think the assassination attempt is a good scene, the aftermath is where it falls over.... it's the horribly executed sky car chase that ruins any tension or fear of Padme getting killed it's supposed to be a serious moment and it turns into a circus act.

If the droid gets destroyed by sniper fire or even remote detonation and... Obiwan could dive out the way (flipped away from the window or down to ground) of the blast or sniper fire... The actual chase can play out on foot without all the stupid sky diving and lame jokes... Anakin makes a run out of the door we cut to him pursuing the bounty hunter on foot from the start.

This would really up the tension with obi-wan catching up with him at the club and telling him he forgot his light sabre.. etc.

It's all the stupid crap antics that stop the PT being remotely plausible and a switch off and I quote again losing the immersion.

It's like Bladerunner on amphetiines the sky car chase and I have to say I despise it.

Coruscant should degrade over the course of the films agreed

and good call on the order of scenes I like the deleted scene too of the senate and use of deleted scene to identify dart is a much better way to go than dex... Just cut out Jar-Jar looking crap as usual out of senate scene

timdiggerm said:

How is discussion of Ronster's edit part of the Revisited thread?  

sorry I won't cloud the thread with all my ideas but I made the main points I wanted to make about the PT...and they were suggestions for revisited

I have been playing with footage "for ideas" and don't make suggestions unless they are possible it is my method to avoid pie in the sky or elaborate ideas without seeing "opportunity" in footage.

The points are aimed as Ideas for revisited... but goes in hand with messing about and analysis

muddyknees2000 said:

Apart from validating the "high ground" issue, I don't see how any of that fixes anything.....the action set pieces are not the problem really. A few lightsaber battles could be cut down in length.....but the real problems lay elsewhere.

Agreed, just fiddling about as an exercise.... But the action pieces are a major problem, most action scenes have stupid stuff in it like a cartoon that is a massive problem and Film breaker.

Some of the talk get's pretty boring in it and does not go anywhere, and they then re-iterate what they just said in the last scene in the next.

Some of the dialogue is very badly written... What I am doing is slightly making it better.... But I am only editing fast and in rough to flesh out my ideas.... And to see what is there.

The Lars Homestead is probably the worst scene there is so far In AOTC as C3-PO not only just being there but the lines are terrible and completely ruin any sadness or wonderment or, well any mood what so ever. But it's a totally needed scene so you can not just eliminate it.

I have not figured that bit out yet but I am making progress, in making it feel like it is more real.

That is the trick to the prequels... It don't feel real.... Instead of sucking you in it spits you out of any immersion in the movie at regular intervals unlike the OT... It is that immersion level that is missing for the most part 

muddyknees2000 said:

No, he wants to do the full 6 film saga.....and honestly if he manages to make them watchable/enjoyable it'll mean a whole lot more fun than just one solitary film would.

I am playing about with it now... And searching for it.....The Holy Grail of making the PT really feel like the OT

Heres a couple of things.... Thoughts and ideas

Count Dooku has to die on geonosis in my opinion... Which means taking the duel out of ROTS with Anakin and Dooku (last moments only) and compositing some of that fight in the room on geonosis also meaning Yoda does not fight Dooku the deathstar plans get cut too and Anakin never looses his arm.

This also means he does not need to loose the arm because he is going to die (Anakin) at Lava slope on Mustafa

Also so far as the Darth Maul battle goes, I would also suggest when obi-wan falls to the lower level he uses a grappling hook footage from ROTS to get to the higher level where qui-gon fights Maul.... Obi-wan also slices Darth Maul in Half straight after he breaks Mauls part of his light sabre. Meaning he never falls down the hole and does the stupid acrobatic flip cheap trick and defeats him like a bad ass and not stupidly.

It also makes the statement "Don't try it, I have the High Ground" Valid in ROTS and not a complete contradiction

Huge Darth Maul Backflip and Jedi Jumping to follow also cut... Not so sure of what I am doing yet but it is slowly falling in to place in chunks

I have not got to the plot yet but I will post some findings later

Looking at the chase sequence from AOTC (Chasing the assassin) It might be good to use the sniper footage to destroy the droid so Obiwan never leaps through the window... This presents problems of it's own as a double of Obi-wan would need to be filmed getting to the sky car with Anakin... But the Over The Top rubbish needs to go somehow... This is best I can think of for now.

yeah I guess you have a point... But whats Ady planning to do to make Obi-wan appear more reckless use footage from trainspotting?

only joking but yeah I totally get you, the set up is all wrong how to even begin fixing is perhaps futile and salvage what can be salvaged.

The films are pretty bad and to think I actually liked some bits while other bits are like complete rejects and non memorable or memorable in a bad way.

I am still of the opinion that there is a good film in there but not in 3 installments and certainly this is my main concern for PT:R.

The Base material and what is possible vs what is not in the confines of the actors and the story that is already there.

I guess I am just wishfully thinking that the PT:R will be condensed into 1 film leaving only 3 films on Ady and the teams plate after ESB is done.

I have a bad feeling about the PT:R

muddyknees2000 said:

They will NEVER be as good as the OT.......not with the crap that Ady has to work with as his base ingredient.....but they CAN be made into decent films. They'll never be as character driven as the OT....they're always going to be more like documentaries about what happened to Anakin Skywalker.....simply because of the material that George shot (or didn't shoot) and the way he chose to tell his story. But they CAN be made to be entertaining. MUCH more so than they are now.

And Ady has said that his versions are going to come in much shorter than their current running times.....which makes sense what with all the crap that has to be cut out.

You hit the nail on the head there...

Character driven story... Thats what I mean by 3 films in to 1 film

A character driven story only... Sci-fi nonsense out the window a few light sabre duels and that about wraps it up... Lucas did not need to tell this story across 3 films it's only because of the gap between the ROTJ and TPM that it implied and it was an obliged money spinner to do another trilogy.

And by the end of this he got the message about what people actually wanted.

The 3rd film was the real film by the second half and the other 2 were mostly filler

Jar Jar looks terrible even if you dub him over....I don't know what could be done to improve his appearance either....

It's not like I am not trying to think creative, I get it... But I am like also how can it be made to feel like the OT with the presence of Jar Jar even if he is dubbed... Or Grievous or Battledroids

This is where it all seems such a tremendous idea but in execution I want to believe it can happen but feel like it's impossible unless 3 films become 1.

Ruthlessly Cut to shreds deconstructed and then pieced together carefully to tell a story but not so much of an action story sci-fi but what character performances there are just piece them together keeping it not so lightsabre duel centric.

The only possible space battle is above Naboo without Anakin as pilot

That is a far cry from what the original trilogy was but it is the only way the rest has to be very much about politics and characters and there motivations Padme and Anakins relationship and Obiwan trying to find out what is going on as a focus and not about science fiction or fantasy at it's center.

Removing the stupid acrobatic jumping antics and bringing it down to earth if you like...Grounded in physics that are familiar to us across all aspects.

The plot should be center stage and the light sabre duels that do occur need to be toned down heavily and not be a main motivation.

It sounds like a boring star wars film I am talking about but with what there is I can not believe what ever is done to the PT will ever resemble the OT and certainly not 3 films running at 270mins

It needs to feel more boring less stupid and be completley geared towards the plot and run at about 90 - 120 mins

I watched the prequel trilogy yesterday and I have to admit I don't really care for the films much... I want to like them I really try to like them and take snippets of them as yeah ok it's star wars.

But truth is they are beyond redemption.....

Adywan has great skills with his editing and visual enhancements he is doing to the OT but I have to admit that the PT has the following issues and can not be fixed in after effects.

1. Bad Acting

2. Poor character development

3. Don't like a lot of the characters most could be thrown away

4. Rubbish Plot

5. Who gives a s**t

6. Too much CGI Animation does not feel real

Now this post is not intended to offend people who love everything star wars but how on earth could the prequel trilogy be bought up to the same standards as the original trilogy?

It actually troubles me that Adywan will devote years to trying to get the PT to a better place, and it seems impossible....

I think it would be better choice to make the PT as one film using flash backs to tattooine for Anakins history / back story with Padme

It should start at the end of TPM use parts of AOTOC but mainly Be material from ROTS

Grievous should be cut out totally.... Christopher lee can die on Geonosis meaning the space battle also get's cut because it is awful

The Arena Battle should be Cut on Geonosis. As should the invasion of Naboo and the gungans

Actually most of the action needs to get cut out in my opinion as the over the top action really ruins it and what essentially separates it from the OT.

Darth Maul and the count should stay as action pieces but no Yoda vs the count or the emperor. The sand people slaughter + Jango Fett on Camino and chase to geonosis should stay...

Jah Jah needs to be removed so that he never exists

And battle droids also need to be replaced with something else they are just terrible...

Even if all that could be made to flow seamlessly as one movie It still won't solve the bad acting and wooden performances....

I want to believe that it can be improved, but I doubt what ever get's done to any of them I will ever like them as much as the OT.

you might get lucky on a 5.1 audio channel mix for removal... 

But it's not like picking sultanas out of a cake that's baked.

The mix is all a whole and your not actually seperating anything whatever frequency you remove from the sound will remove everything on that frequency.

Even if you have a partial clash across frequencies with what you delete the voice may become hollow sounding or Boomey depending if you slice the top or the bottom end of respectivly

so you'll find sometimes you can do it and other times you will have a total clash or partial clash of frequeies and won't be able to remove the soundtrack score.

This Removal of frequencies will only work providing what you are trying to remove does not clash with what you are trying to keep.

If the Dialogue is at the same frequency as a piece of background music then you have no chance of removing it.

The example shown in that video is fine because the police siren is nowhere near the frequency of the dialogue, but a full orchestral score elements of it will be at the same frequency as the dialogue so this won't fix the problem unless you have separate audio tracks. 

ROTJ is a big mess too but it is salvageable... And would clock in at at least just over the 2 hour mark

I think it could be better to make the whole PT into one film and butcher the hell out of it (coming in under 2 hours)... There is so much stuff worth cutting out of them and just keep the main plot points.

1 decent movie or 3 rubbish ones.. That's the only way I see it to be honest

adywan said:

so if i kill off Boba Fett , and that there would be no way he could possibly survive, yet he turns up in the ST then how do you explain that? you can't. I'm not prepared to tie myself down to anything that may appear in the new films. Sorry, but Revisited will only be able to be watched as a 6 films saga, unless by some miracle nothing conflicts with the new films.

Knock his block off anyway and then if he shows up in the ST then you will have to pretend that he was only a clone.. A doppleganger... Best bounty hunter in the galaxy could do such a thing.

I totally feel that you should not get caught up in terms of any new films... I'd actually go as far to say that if you even stopped at the OT with your edits I would be absolutely satisfied as that's all that will ever matter to me... The PT I went to cinema to see everyone of them and every time just felt completely meh, ok new star wars special edition stuff is quite cool.

The only part of the PT that was any good was the bit where they tied to the OT at the end of ROTS in my humble opinion

If you said now I am only going to re-do episode VI and finish V and VI and not touch the PT I would actually be happier... But It's up to you how far you want to take this project.

It's growing beyond what it started out as... Nothing wrong with that but, better to focus on completing the first goal you set yourself before taking on a whole quintology at the same time, ESB:R is not finished yet....

I'd even be happy with DVD quality ANH:R still looks great to me

If you decide to go for 5 films simultaneously I would listen to mithrandir... Focus on getting ROTJ out and make low quality rough edits of the PT so you know what you need to do then tackle that bit simultaneously before you start the PT proper so you can piece your ideas together quickly and play before commiting to doing all 5 at once.

Watched you clip Dan and it's pretty good...

I would like to see more.... Check out this If you can find a higher resolution there is some good stuff to use in that clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQOn8K5cggk

adywan said:

I just posted this over on the facebook page:

Ok, now we've got April 1st out of the way i can now make an announcement about the future of the Revisited saga. I will no longer be working on ROTJ:R after i have finished ESB:R.........

 

Oh no, i will be working on ALL 5 REMAINING HD VERSIONS OF THE SAGA.

I know, it it probably the most insane thing i could ever attempt; TPM:R, AOTC:R, ROTS:R, ROTJ:R and ANH:R-HD all being done simultaneously. Why have i gone completely insane and decide to do this? Well its all to do with logistics. For the PT i really need to film extra scenes, new characters and this also goes for some extra stuff needed for ROTJ. If i can find people to fill these roles then wouldn't it be easier for me to get the filming done in one or a few big shoots instead of trying to get everyone back throughout the years of making these?

Also it would stop me getting bored with doing the same movie or grind to a halt because i'm stuck on a certain shot. While i'm planning ROTJ:R i can be doing the ground work on the PT, working out how i can accomplish all the things i want to do and even if these ideas can work.

I'll start off with a complete colour correction of all films, making the PT look closer to the OT in terms of colouring and a little less like they were shot on HD cameras, but more like 35mm film. These films need to match visually when watching 1-6. The PT are most likely going to be shorter films than they are now. Probably coming in at around 1hr 30mins.

So what do i have planned for the PT?......

C-3P0 will NOT be built by anakin or even work on the Lars farm. He won't even see Tatooine until Ep4. Instead he will be attached to Amidala/ Padme. After all he is a protocol droid. Why the hell would Anakin build a protocol droid for his Mum?

Anakin NEVER referred to as Vader and Vader will be the one storming the Jedi Temple, not Anakin ( and no youngling slaughter either). If things plan out how i envision then you won't know that Anakin and Vader are one and the same until ESB

Anakin's turn to the dark side will not have anything to do with the thought of Padme dying in childbirth. It will be switched back to the original storyline that George even started filming, that it will be a seduction of power.

NO BLOOODY MIDI-CHLORIANS.

And hopefully a certain Moff will make more of an appearance throughout the final prequel too....

And thats just a few things.

This is logical I guess... But what is Illogical is that it will take a hell of a long time for ROTJ Revisited to come out... But I guess it is the way it is and you have your reasons no doubt...

Does this mean that different films of the 5 left after ESB Revisited will be released as and when any particular one is done... Or is there a plan to release in the order you originally intended OT first then PT?

muddyknees2000 said:

thayerj said:

Why not have a 2nd ending credits with everyone who helped along the way and have it set to the imperial march song?

not a bad idea...have it in one of the sub menus....special features or some such.....

Personally I'd much rather have the film credits as unmodified as possible (obviously Ady's work needs to be recognized, so his and a few other's names need to be in there)......and it WAS already said that names in the credits wasn't going to be a thing for ROTJ:R, so I'd also prefer the credits for the entire trilogy to resemble eachother as much as possible.

^ This is the best Idea if the thank you List happens...

People rarely sit through end credits these days anyhow... Although Star Wars is one of the films where majority of people would have sat until the technicolor logo arrived in the cinema... Most people make a dash for the doors now... How times have changed... How film has changed.

Imperial March is a good choice of music for sure 

Probably the winner of best all time end credits to a movie that keeps you watching until the very end would have to go to "cannonball run" IMO they nailed it as an art form but I'm not suggesting this for ESB revisited

aalenfae said:

regularjoe said:

Ronster's idea is dynamic but a big problem is that it doesn't fit the context of the scene or the movie.  The rebels are essentially executing a delaying action to keep the power generator and the shield intact so as many transports as possible are able to escape.  The Empire is supposed to be trouncing them, their armored vehicles are supposed to be impervious to the equipment that the Rebellion has cobbled together.  The shot of the cannon hitting the walker to no effect is important in illustrating this.  

This chapter of the movies is supposed to be darker and the Rebels are on the run and the Empire has the upper hand despite the destruction of the Death Star in the last chapter.  

I'm not hoping to see a lot of AT-ST's or AT-AT's go down in this fanedit.  I realize it is a fanedit but some things shouldn't be changed too much in order to maintain the integrity of the original story.  

The problem is a few AT-ATs (two out of five visible) already go down in the original. Pretty pathetically, actually. 40% casualties on the Empire is pretty insane. The Rebels just don't have nearly enough time to stop them all. 

The same overwhelming effect could be felt with an AT-ST going down. Like - the gun destroys an AT-ST, but the camera pans up slowly, and we see an AT-AT looming overhead. It shoots, and we see the shot of the artillery exploding. Same effect, but now it's actually more dramatic.

Aalenfae I remember your short video for ideas on the Hoth Battle especially the moving turrets and the downed AT-AT shield Malfunction spring to mind were both good ideas along with troops disembarking the AT-AT's on wires.

So far as bringing down 1 AT-ST via Artillery I would say that you actually understand the effect.

Long Version

AT-ST brought down by Artullery = A small victory and Hope

AT-AT pretty much straight after this destroys the artillery = Hope Shattered

This Leads on to that the Chicken Walkers are protecting the AT-AT's Flanks. By Destroying an AT-ST that will make for the window of opportunity for the tow cable trip of the AT-AT that wedge brings down. Without removal of the AT-ST protecting it's flanks the manouver would have been impossible.

The Rebels still get their asses handed to them but as Alanfae said we are trying to increase the drama and not make it seem like the rebels are doing better than they did in the original.

I myself feel it's reasonable that the artillery is capable of taking down an AT-ST and not an AT-AT so why would they not target what they could actually do damage to? As the Snow speeders are targeting the AT-AT's The Artillery should be trying to take down the Chicken Walkers with a success rate of bringing 1 of them down.

Short Version

Just Blow one up :)

adywan said:

You can't use the AT-ST's from ROTJ because they are different designs. The ESB walkers have much longer legs;

ESB AT-ST:

 

ROTJ AT-ST

Thanks for the reply Adywan I never actually realised this actually so my Bad.

The clip I suggested from ROTJ is from the top of the leg and Hip upwards of the AT-ST chewie shoots only so it's perhaps passable but either way your reply seems to suggest you may have some other things up your sleeve for this Hoth Battle Revisited?

Regardless I'm looking forward to what ever get's served up by the team and Looking forward to any further media release.

Keep up the great work and inspire us some more

The Mountains behind the AT-AT Head firing is an absolute improvement...Well done Mithrandir.

Thanks for the support on the ideas I wanted to share what I found with using the clip from ROTJ Endor Battle as they fit together very well.... However there is a problem the AT-ST has tree shadow on it's Hull so could perhaps not be so Easy to use this clip, but it's only about 2.5 seconds so not too many frames of which 1 second you see the model (with tree shadow)... the rest is the explosion and destruction.

But If there were to be an AT-ST taken down I'll single out the Radar like Artillery Laser Battery as prime candidate either with CG Model or having to Brush up the flip shot from ROTJ.

Not Sure how difficult it would be to brush out the shadows on the hull? Sorry was quite a while a go and only just remembered this issue with the clip in question.

Anyway great to see Hoth getting a real good make over and dissected meticulously :)

*Edit* Just reviewed the clip and it's about 2 seconds and there is no horizontal flip required

chyron8472 said:

I wonder how much it might improve by having particles of snow moving on the foot's impact.

Then again, I don't recall what the AT-AT foot impacts did to the snow during the scene where Luke's snowspeeder was squashed.

This is my thoughts too unsure how much improvement could be gained but  mght work?

In the Hoth Battle sequence will we get to see an AT-ST get taken down?

If so... The best shot to use would be the rebel Dude that fires the dish like artillery laser would be best to use.

I'ts the fourth one along here...

I also worked out earlier (last year) that if you flip the shot of the AT-ST from ROTJ that get's destroyed by chewies stolen AT-ST on Endor by laser fire and composite it on a Hoth background (removing the forest) it works extremely well and fluid action sequence straight after the Rebel shoots the Laser artillery battery.

And cut the Laser to the leg of the AT-AT that does no damage or move to another spot if possible.

But I would really like to see an AT-ST go Down by the hands of the Rebels artillery.

Anyhow Just an Idea and I don't feel that it would hurt the sense of struggle as they still get over run.

I Thought I would chip in on a possible improvement idea.

On the AT-AT foot stomp add some particles when it hit's the ground to emphasize the weight of these walkers on the ice. and when the foot lifts some particles trailing off to emulate drag.

No biggie but could improve the shot perhaps

Other than that I think the shot works well and like the way the AT-AT sways within the shot. Scan lines work well too with interference. I don't think it's an issue being center of the shot or slightly off center the POV is fine.

Ha Ha,

I've got a good feeling about this :)

Keep up the great work!!!

well best not too look down on what happened here even though the bustle seems to have gone for now there are things to show for it and that in itself is an accomplishment.

Things will pick up over the Easter I'm sure....

Take it easy D and good luck with your career and schooling that you doing :)

what the hell happened... It's like a train wreck this thread... I'm sorry but I ran out of steam to keep the clips coming that I was contributing but It was'nt in the script anyway.....And I was never part of the team who were meant to be producing stuff lol... Nevermind... So what happens now?

If I get some time over the Easter I will try to finish the death star surface flight to the port in rough but are people really going to do this project together I doubt it...?

Anyway folks even if this dies we have ROTJ revisited to look forward to however that is going to be we'll have to wait.

Have a Happy Easter :)

Just read in another thread... Ralph McQuarrie passed away yesterday.... tis sad news, I am glad i did the tribute sequence in my cut to show the emperors palace as it was intended to be a nod to him and not the PT....

Long live the art of Raplh McQuarrie though... So much inspiration to so many great films and TV series