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4k77 - shot by shot color grading

ChainsawAsh said:

Ronster said:

no you can just see he goes from getting ready to actually acting.

You’re joking, right?

It’s a shame they never got to finish that part off for the special effects, instead they filled it with people looking around.

Wow, seriously? Okay, tell me. What was supposed to go there?

Something like this…

It’s part of the film now… But it would be nice to see what they had for that part. Actually the Shot of the escape pod flying towards camera in the film is from this part that is missing but they moved it to when 3p0 and R2-D2 are in the Pod. I imagine they never had it all sorted like other effects shots missing stuff it was very difficult what they were doing.

Either way what I think the 93 laserdisc has on Extended Soldier footage is that it is more de-saturated and that is what works in it’s favor. In the rest of the footage not so much perhaps.

4k77 - shot by shot color grading

Brodnation said:


This is a Comparison of a bunch of CC’s I have seen lately. They were made by taking images from of all the sources as well as a No DNR version of 4K77 and running them through Dr Dre’s Wonderful Colour Matching Algorithm. I personally prefer NevearGreats and Dr Dre’s but please give me your opinions.

Edit: The link is now fully operational!

The 93 Laserdisc is the best for that particular shot in my opinion, but that shot is plain weird anyway not only just color but the shot starts before he even starts acting! That was because they were covering up other shots that were missing. It was probably added late in production, well the shot is longer than it was meant to be.

The R2-D2 and 3P0 in the alone in the corridor has no place in the film at all it’s a promo shot they also used that to cover the Missing scene gap.

Dune radical edit ideas

I just want to list some of the other missing material that I found in the script.

When Duke Lito Dies A meteorite was meant to crash into the sea on Caladan. This could be recreated and might be good.

After Paul Bumps into Gurney in the Desert there is a scene which covers that Gurney thinks Lady Jessica is a traitor against Atreides Paul stops Gurney from Attacking Jessica and explains Yueh was the traitor in House Atreides whom betrayed them. There is nothing we can do about this unless the footage were released but it is an important scene and it is perhaps the last Important scene left out. There is no good reason for this being left out the TV version at all. Or is it Brutality to women angle even though nothing was done to Jessica…

There was to be a montage of scenes between seeing water droplets between each scene. This was to show time passing but also Jessica giving birth to Alia, The Fremen training with weirding modules against robots. Paul is taken to an area where plants can grow due to condensation forming on rocks - Life was finding a way to seed Stilgar said they had seed for the plants and this expands upon the rain on Arrakis ending. AGain no Good reason for this to be cut from TV version except perhaps Alia as soon as she is born says “Mother” which might have been considered disturbing.

When The Battle at the end is over the Palace was surrounded by Fremen Warriors Princess Irulian says “Father? What will you do?”

On the end sequence…

How dare you speak to me…
(speaking into electric
Stop your speaking!!
(to the Guildsmen)
Good. You have some idea of what I would do
but I will tell it to one who has never been
seen… one who hides deep in the Heighliner
control rooms. He will hear it first.
Paul smiles as we move closer and closer to him.
Suddenly we are in the Heighliner control room, near the floor in the
chemical spills. We move up into the orange gas. THUNDERING begins
to shake the Heighliner.
Where are you… Let me see you or there
will be no spice.

We move into very thick gas and there is a ROARING. Suddenly Paul
sees the Third Stage Navigator.
You know what I’m about to say is true… I
have the power to destroy the spice forever.
The Guild Navigator’s mouth stretches back in a horrible MOAN. The
moan becomes more pained and grows louder and louder.
The Guildsmen in the room are MOANING and SCREAMING and swarming out
towards the doorway – the Fremen stop them. The Emperor and all are
amazed and frightened. There is a long hush. The old Reverend Mother
then turns and glares at Paul.

Now this mentions the third stage navigator but in the 5th draft it was to be a 4th stage navigator basically a sandworm but with a mutated human head similar to a 3rd stage navigator. The scene where the guildsmen are uneasy is in the costume documentary on the dvd. This would have been a cool monster moment at the end a human who now looks more like a sandworm than human because he has been alive for ages and stuffed himself full of spice 😃

There was also the plot point that in the place that the Bene Gesserit could not look… In the Black hole this 4th Stage Navigator would be the one that would kill the men who drank the water of life not allowing them to transcend but he could not stop Paul Atreides, but Because they never made the 4th Stage Navigator he sadly was never revealed as the top Secret Navigator of all Navigators the Ultimate Spice mutation.

The Navigator Being disintegrated is there correctly I think when Paul Drinks the Water of Life but the 4th Stage Navigator was to be the Boss if you like who basically knew Paul had the upper hand and the threat of making it rain he showed them he could destroy the spice but he did not.

Also when Paul Successful takes the Water of Life the last image of the sequence was to be a flower opening. Without the seeds of the scarce plants and the Vision of the Flower opening these things would have added to the Rain at the end but it’s missing all the shots that lead up to the rain plot point.

Dune radical edit ideas

4throck said:

Interesting finds! The new Palace also matches the Emperor’s landing craft better.
But who’s landing on Geidi Prime then? The Mentat bringing Leto’s message?

The Fremen Sietch model will work, I like that weird design from Krull.

I’d like to see your results, please share them someday 😉

Yeah i would say the Mentat bringing Leto’s message is the only possible answer.

If it were recreated then perhaps showing a Landed ship would suffice with the concept art enhanced i some way. Perhaps some animated smoke would do. that fighter which looks distictly Harkonan would suffice.

It would be better to use the big battlecruiser at the end of the film from Battle beyond the stars for the emerors arrival.

I got that scene wrong from trailer this is during hunter seeker flashback but I think this shot is meant to be the place mohiam dare not look. Witch and the Fire. Swap though for Paul Atreides and fire. “you will see me there looking back at you”

when they wash the Blood and flesh off the floor on Geidi prime this is the aftermath of the sting knife fight where he kills sandakar captain so yes it was filmed.

The more and more I read the only 2 main plot points missing are.

  1. Teraforming - This was adapted into the rain on Arrakis ending. No it is not raining all over the planet. So covered although altered entirely.

  2. Paul loses his son in Harkonnen raid which would be the reason for the Speech and Long live the fighters.

Rabaan in the desert is filmed though so you could show the Sietch and some fighters blasting it followed by Rabaan in desert perhaps after water of Life sequence. This would make the Revenge Speech much better it would fill in that blank and give much more meaning to the revenge after an attack on their home. Pauls Speech occurs on his return then but motivated by both knowledge and revenge.

Lynch really did have it covered in 3 hours as an adaptation that covered the main plot.

Dune radical edit ideas

OK I finally found the Concept Art for The Emperors Palace…

Mock up of what it could look like…

I think this really does match the architecture in the movie. This means that Other Landing Shot is actually Geidi Prime indeed and we have a missing sequence. This may also explain why Paul Destroys a Stone pyramid with the Weiding module when demonstrating to the Fremen and the Emperors Golden Tent.

A nice update for Kaitain

As Far as the Guild Report Goes I would cut the Audio “A Secret Report within the Guild” and also “Send a third Stage Navigator to Kaitain to demand details from the Emperor…”.

So what does the Fremen Citadel Look like?

I think the Model Shot From Krull could be a Good candidate to Capture a sense of Something within the Rocky Outcrops… Although it is not something that needs to be shown It would be an excuse for an establishing shot. Alternatively it could be a secret Harkonan Suicide Squad Base.

I have read that the Model Production Facility Burnt down during production so this explains probably why some things are not present perhaps, or things were modified, I have no idea how much that impacted production but I can imagine it was a big setback.

Anyway been working a bit on the Folding Space sequence and some good ideas are at work!

Dune radical edit ideas

4throck said:

You should see the mini series. Very low budget, odd accents, but very faithful to the book. The only real letdown is the bad CGI… 1984 models do look better.

Here’s the intro with added images as she speaks. For the sake of discussion give it a look 😃
The navigator’s “seeing eye” part does work, the rest adds little.
Still, it gives good information without being a awkward narration.

I’ll move on to the “guild report” and see what comes out of it.

It’s not working…although the shots are not bad choices to try and explain what is being said I don’t think trying to explain what is being said works. The only way I am going to be able to explain how I think about this, is by trying it myself.

It’s not an easy thing at all this intro and I don’t know what to make of this part except it has to make you feel something, it has to be very visually engaging, and it also has to carry some meaning. But don’t take that as a bad thing it’s very hard to work with something that is incomplete. You must Look Beyond the footage.

Think about Elements

Atreides = Water
Harkonan = Wind
Fremen = Earth
Bene Gesserit = Fire
Guild = Space
Emperor = ?

6 Dimensions

Dune radical edit ideas

never seen the mini series… But I like the painting if it is from that.

Anyway try it with just water droplets then perhaps and transition to her cupped hands. Perhaps it is being over thought.

there is another clip in the trailer for the box sequence. The blurred chair the witch is no longer there then the optical effect rip or tear to the fire and the witch. this probably comes before “The pain!”

Ideed the kyle Mcglaughlan voiceover may mean it was part of the film book originally… It is a decent explaination that it is intelligence report.

Dune radical edit ideas

This is a bit off topic in a way by this shocked me to lavish amazing looking set’s that were not in the film.

The mind boggles on how good these look and not to commit it to film is insane, I can’t get me head around this but obviously there are scenes set in these areas.

It could be interesting to Replace the emperors palace with the matte painting?

But I am not sure that really looks like reflects the interior and the lavishness of the emperors palace and it would seem ideas moved on quite a bit from the concept art. But like I said note the different design for the Landing Ship also. I would say it is Geidei Prime if you put the Matte Painting in the Background replacing the emperors model palace. I have a feeling this would have been the Sandaukar troops Landing on Geidi Prime.

This does look like perhaps what the Palace was meant to look like though.

Tried to improve make it less CG looking.

I think Caladan looks Good and Arakkis and Geidei Prime but the Emperor’s Palace looks poor.

One More Correction Change Caladan to Blue like it should be

Dune radical edit ideas

This is the Foreword from the Storybook.

THE GREAT GALACTIC EMPIRE had lasted for thousands of years, its Emperor Shaddam IV, believed it would last forever. He was Wrong. In a far corner of the Empire was a desert planet called Dune. It was the most important planet in the Empire, because it was the only planet on which the spice melange could be found. Melange could give people strange mental powers. The Fremen people who lived on Dune hated the Empire because it ruled their world harshly. Their legends said that some day a great leader would come to their world. He would set them free, and change the galaxy forever. They were right. This is the story of how it happened.

Edited Version

THE GREAT GALACTIC EMPIRE had lasted for thousands of years, its Emperor Shaddam IV, believed it would last forever. In a far corner of the Empire was a desert planet called Arrakis. It was the most important planet in the Empire, because it was the only planet on which the spice melange could be found. Melange could give people strange mental powers. The Fremen people who lived on Arrakis hated the Empire because it ruled their world harshly…

Prophecy Intro - (Water Droplets)

This is not a bad guess at how it was set up originally before the Virginia Madsen intro was filmed. I like the Virginia Madsen Intro a lot the music and everything but it does feel off in places. Anyway it’s some more food for thought.

Dune radical edit ideas

I think it is Good, I think the Caladan Part flows much better than the Introduction. Pauls Dream is well done here also.

I think I can kind of see what you have in mind and building things slowly. And it is refreshing and introduces things more slowly.

To focus on the Intro here are my thoughts on this part.

I like the shot of the Fremen Standing listening and the 2 moons that we’re added.

To break this down to how it would of went I noticed something Key to how the Visuals would be represented.

Forget the Sand of the Desert throw the desert away visually get rid of it.

Have her Voice simply over Drops of Water inter-dispersed with some brief Images (Moons shot and Rings and Stars smoke an eye) that have meaning but Abstract then fade in to her Hands Being Cupped Keep it very Minimal. After this it was originally Meant to show a water Drop similar to what is in the Bladerunner DVD unused credits over the Guild ship Landing so Perhaps use the Deleted Bladerunner Credits scene for inspiration. Inter-disperse the shot of the Fremen warriors between the Shots at the end leaving a pause between her lines feel like Jump Cut.

If you do something like this I think it would be Perfect. But I don’t think it is Bad I just think we need to get to what the Visuals are and she is not meant to be seen until her Hands Dissolve through the Water. Use Dissolve Transitions Frequently like I said Transparency.

Time an Opaque Water Drop When she Lifts Her Hand up like Pauls Hand surrounded
by the Water and the Rings see how that works.

You could Build this from a black screen all the way up to a dissolve into her Hands being Cupped.

THe Caladan Part is Good I have no Critique on it. You will Obviously get rid of TV edit Voiceover I assume.

Thinking of the only Report that we get in the film that survived I noticed that it is spoken by Kyle Mcglaughan, (SEcret Report within the Guild) but something tells me it should not be… Were these Reports to be given by the Thinking Machines? Perhaps a more Robotic Synthesised voice would be more fitting. It feels off and I think they were thinking Paul would have this as part of the Film Book sequence which is Dumb because it is for the Voyeur of the film and not any character that would feature in the film.


Lol 😃

Dune radical edit ideas

Here is the pretty Big Section that has been excised it Has 2 scenes that could be recreated - Emperors Report and Guild Report.

Seventeen Great Houses of the Landsraad have
reported a significant delay in delivery of
spice per CHOAM agreement. This constitutes
a serious violation of CHOAM codes. Contact
Baron Vladimir Harkonnen immediately.
A furious Rabban sirs in a black steel tub in the Great Hall. A squad
of TROOPS stands at attention in front of him, listening to his
screaming fit.
Falsify the reports. We can’t hide it all,
tell them we’ve lost only two hundred
harvesters… and forty carryalls… and
don’t let my uncle know about the destruction
of the spice silos… I will catch this
Muad’Dib and suck the blood from him!! SUCK

Rabaan Punches the Light above him and the Black Liquid drips over him.

  1. Int Ornithopter Day -

A Furious Rabaan looks Down from an Ornithopter. Below Several Harvesters Burn and a Huge Carryall lies Smouldering in Ruin.

  1. through to 227

Basically Calling on The Sandakar Captain and this is the knife fight I was telling you with Fayed. Thulfer is doing his very best to Make the Baron Worry about the Situation that is growing on Arakkis. Fayed beheads the Snadakar Captain that is more in allegance with the Emperor than Harkonan. We then have a scene where Alia is using the Voice to somone who does not like her for what she is This part tells us that she was born with all the knowledge of a Bene Geseritt Reverand mother.

Then this.

    Stand-by … warning … we have just
    received a coded threat from the Guild.
    Spice production is in serious jeopardy…
    Giedi Prime supplying false reports… Guild
    to visit Emperor in one standard day.

This then goes on to the scene which was meant to feature the 2nd stage guild navigator! Which sadly does not but the scene is there not the 2nd Stage Navigator. This is strange because if the mask was done all that was required was the Glass Tank to go over the Head perhaps the mouth needed animatronics but… It does not add up why it is not there… Too Disturbing because he is half humanoid?

So there is part of the Big Chunk that was chopped out we have not seen and the 2 reports which were also excised.

There is also Max Von Sydow death scene by a Egg Cluster of Baby Sandworms burst near or around him when he is left in the desert. This is the origin of “The worm is the spice, the spice is the worm”

The Baron Lobotomises Nefud

Also Mentioned is a scene where Sandakar Troops Stab Atreides through the back of their heads and come out there nose or front of there face with a Knife weapon.

If you discount re-shoots this is practically the main chunk of excised material Bar Missing Special effects shots opticals.

You also have the deleted scene with Alia saying “Paul has taken the water of life” but her voice was to be over dubbed with kyle McGlauchlans voice for some of her other lines as Paul was talking through Alia and this was to be quite trippy Tunnel sequence showing you the Place where a Bene Geseritt dare not look into a black hole prior to all bloodline knowledge if you like.

Seeing a theme of Censorship here though and toning down removal of disturbing images and Gore… So yeah it’s not on the DVD because it starts to get really Brutal + weird towards the end.

Hope this is useful 😃

Dune radical edit ideas

cool, I am not sure if the bene-gesserit reverend mother does the trip to Caladan with the help of the guild as it is implied that this will be done in secret. The tip off was from listening in with her powers from outside the room.

This seems to be an independant act on behalf of their faction to test Paul in secret unbeknowst to the emperor and the space guild.

So this trip would be clandestine I feel similar to the Guild visiting Kaitain.

So they must have secret Navigators and perhaps this is where the 2nd stage navigator would have featured perhaps.

If they wanted him dead perhaps caution was urged or obviously some sort of plot point is amiss wether it was done in knowledge of the guild or not

Dune radical edit ideas

Yeah i can imagine this as a space guild ship. It would be good to have that as the ship that lands on Kaitain but it would need quite a bit of manipulation. Perhaps it would be beneficial to replace Kaitain empetors Palace also. But to keep the forground miniature shot and modify the underside to contain the dome. The Hammerhead part would be off screen.

It would make for much better establishing shots far more sci-fi and fantastical. It actually looks sinilar to the cocept art for the dropship.

The “Nell” model looks like it could be a fremen prototype attack ship crafted from remains of harvesters they had destroyed. It also resemble the still suits.

it’s weird and uncanny how alot of those models could be attached to various factions by their design.

I think it would possibly propel Dune to greater heights indeed.

like you say space guild has monopoly but the factions need small attack fighters.

If that big ship was introduced in suvh a way as to show the hammer head then the body and then the big square hole you could cut straight to the dropship without any modification at all. Showing the square hole would symbolise where the drop ship might fit. or something like that.

Dune radical edit ideas

4throck said:

Thanks again for the great suggestions.
I was thinking of having parts of the princess narration on Paul’s visions.
I’d like to avoid narration at all if possible. I think the story is clear enough if you order the scenes logically.

I suggest this sequence:

» the Prophecy
» Paul at Caladan. No film book, just introduce his training, the Atreides staff and let him have the conversation with the Duke.
» Secret Report within the Guild and the Emperor.
» Paul’s test by the reverend mother

This is very self contained and avoids introducing many places and characters at once.

Interesting different order…

The first shot of the film was meant to be seeing the Space Guild dropship through a water drop… Sounds again quite abstract. I had a quick flick through the TV edit and what it makes apparent that Missing scene cards for Special effects were filled with existing material from other Parts of the film.

Although I don’t neccesarily think they are needed it would be interesting to visually finish off some of what was planned.

If you are going from Prophecy to Caladan then make good use of Water being the means to transition to Caladan.

You know here is a radical idea… Use Battle Beyond the Stars Ships shots which have been in about 5 films in Dune!

Get Rid of the ornithopter and have this be the Ship they ride out to the Desert to see spice Production.

this looks more atreides by design I would opt this replace the Ornithopter

Then infuse it with a Battle of these which destroy the carry all but There is a small battle.

Have the Reverend Mother fly to Caladan in this ship.

Basically keep most of the Original Ships but expand it into a fully fledged Space Opera where possible. More Space shots more action less psychological and more fun.

More Brian Eno Music

Weave some of this in also perhaps

Dune radical edit ideas

A lot of this information is repeated from the Princess Irulian Naration, So you could tag this 2nd Intro on the end of the other in a way so that you cover all the information but leave the bit out about the Benegesserit and Quizat Haderach. Because this other Intro introduces the Fremen Earlier but also talks of there Vision of the Prophecy.

So I would go with we know of Choam and the emperor and that they are the secret but then move straight on to the prophecy cutting out we know of the Benegesserit and leave all that information to Princess Irulian.

But yes striking Images is what is needed and Big powerful visuals. When you Cut to The Fremen Lady And see she has Blue eyes it will be cool you hear her voice and then are surprised by her difference in appearance.

This would act then as more of an intro for what is to come rather than simply information it set’s up the film for having “The Sight” or being able to see the future before it happens.

In the DVD Documentary they Have Rolling Shot of Sand 50% opaque over a Starfield… This is obviously one of the Missing Shots how you convey the Sand is like the Stars. Play with Transparancy and Opaque Visuals with Stars and the Desert.

4k77 - shot by shot color grading

yep and there are 2 ways of looking at it.

not color graded and color graded. That shot of the 2 suns and this one bear a resemblance outside the rest of the footage.

I don’t mind how you approach it but just for the record the sky is meant to be purple. I deliberated between yellow and red or purple and blue.

But it is one of those things even the special edition messed up. So no issues with what you do but all evidence points to it is meant to be purple if it is’nt then it is probably a mistake.

You can handle it however you like and copy the ungraded shot or grade it like the rest. But the Special edition is closer but it is not purple like it sjould be.

It is still up for grabds and I like that.

Dune radical edit ideas

Well I would say it needs to be Abstract. Blend the Speech with the Desert it is awful looking footage…

Show the Harvesters even if you re-use footage and flip it or something… Just have the Audio mixed with the Desert. Have the dual moons deleted shot off the trailer. Find Aerial Desert Footage sand blowing in the wind when she is talking about we are the secret say. Even use the mini-series perhaps show movement under the sand tease the worms with Worm sign and add a crack of Thunder.

A huge Sandstorm would also work.

Feel the Power and the magnitude of what is being said.

Rouse the viewer and show them this Universe.

A few more try to convey sand is like stars in the universe with the sandstorm show folding space match this together the sand like the stars.

Dune radical edit ideas

Could do… One of the things that bother me is the whole sequence is out of order when Paul and Jessica fly over the desert when cutting back to Yueh and the duke bites down on the tooth.

It’s not a major thing but Spicediver has it slightly in wrong order and that part does not make sense. Otherwise the structure is solid as a rock.

I would definitely keep rain on Arakis.

Dune radical edit ideas

Sorry wanted to link to this post…

Just having a quick play with color.

Guess at what shot was meant to look like

Original version

Pretty big difference and I think even if it meant fixing up the washed out effects through grading it better, it would be worth doing something like this to unlock the potential some of the shots already have which are sorely lacking vibrancy.

Would make for a very interesting color grade project for the special effects shots just to bring those up a notch would propel the film towards a much more enjoyable experience. It looks far less like a cardboard cut out now also. Forgive youtube screen grab it was only a quick test.

One more guess


Doing this sort of process would not perform a miracle but I do think it’s exactly what it needs. It can look and feel much better than it does.





The last 2 space shots are nowhere near as bad IMO

Missing Matte Element???

There is meant to be flames coming out the top of the tower thing…

I also have the story Book with the Caladan Matte painting in it…

But yeah it would be good to fix these up a bit remove internal monologue entirely apart from where absolutely needed and restore or revamp the special effects. Missing Laser Bolts in the Battle…

Spicedivers version is excellent but it is also a bit flabby in places.

We need the shots of Rabaan in the Bath tub and Sting having a knife fight when he comes out that mist shower thing then I think we pretty much have most of the film bar before re-shoots.

also this matte shot should be restored.