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Ronster

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10-Dec-2011
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12-Nov-2018
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2716

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Post
#1255315
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

fair enough but I bought the disc already it is apparently fairly decent bootleg version…

I don’t havd to use that apart from perhaps a few shots in the battle of yavin. I could use the 2004 Dvd for most things basically I hope it is the same as the broadcast version at the end as there are a few shots that look pretty good or much better in the 97 version.

I will use it for the stereo mix on there mainly. that is really about it.

Just thinking now about putting CBS fox home video fanfare at the begining make it like a VHS experience but better for fun 😉

What frames are missing from uk Gout?

Post
#1255181
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

Thanks, I remember it looking like this when it was on TV probably early 80’s.

once the five star collection 97 version shows up I hope to blend the Gout and the 97 version in places actually really looking forward to seeing that material.

I hope then I will have a more analogue looking version than the 2004 and subsequent releases. I want to feel some of the grime and dirt but clean out the weird color interference.

At the end of the day I want a easy on the eyes special edition without the bad parts which we all know those parts. An Analogue Special edition with only CGI space ships sandcrawler yavin temple and so on. But I am also planning on intergrating some excised material and something I have wanted to do for ages is restore the tie fighter pyrotechnic blue screen shots. So there will be some small extras and fixed matte paintings and so on. So it will be a nice version I hope. quite a bit of work but not that bad. Been planning this for quite a bit of time on and off.

Post
#1255065
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

yotsuya said:

I’d be interested in seeing a different sewuence with these settings. C-3PO is too green and the blue lights are too purple. Chewy is also too yellow. That was the problem I ran into when I tried this. Yes, it corrected a lot of things, but it caused other issues. There are sections impacted by fading that just can’t be fixed and have to be patched. But overall, the skin tones were not bad.

Whats a sewuence?

you mean sequence…What one?

Basically I can adjust 3P0 looks like it’s the darker area of yellow with too much green.

It depends what Band the color is in and cleaning out the rubbish is quite a pain.

Problems in

Shadow either Green or Magenta

Mids pretty good

Highs magenta and Blue issues.

It is the Gout not Blu Ray I am trying to recreate the way it was on TV when I was a kid. Not Possible with Blu ray I don’t think the contrast is any good on the Blu ray. Not changing Chewie or Blue lights. The Saturation Level is good also in my opinion.

Post
#1255055
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

So I present the Hue Shifted Gout Color Correction Sample.

https://vimeo.com/300024250

Hope you like it but if you don’t I am not bothered either 😃

I purchased a copy of the 97 five star collection dvd of the 1997 version so I will be pairing that with this in places, only having the 97 broadcast version available to myself (4:3) , it would seem that some of the Millennium falcon cockpit shots are much better in the 97 version (Looking out in to Space) and also to pair Some Special edition elements for a semi-specialised edition but I really like the 97 audio mix a lot I have to say.

I am also planning on using a couple of shots from the Silver Screen edition (2gb mp4) for the hexagon lights issue and the Landspeeder shot (after storm trooper check point) in Mos eisley.

Anyway this is where I am at and this will match the 97 version come the end the two sources are of similar quality I would imagine so this will be a good blend and also good color match.

Using Star Wars the Illustrated script as a bit of a guide on the 1997 version and also a reason for doing the Hue shifts for which the 1997 version was shifted and corrected in places.

If you are going to critique fine just don’t go overboard, but I am showing the process to you now in finished form apart from one shot which I noticed has purple problem.

This basically looks good to my eyes, although it’s a bit different, I am awaiting the onslaught of negativity and flogging / bashing.

Edit: Having watched it a few times I noticed that Chewie in the Matte shot by the elevators is in wrong color so will fix that and a few highlights need de-saturating.

Post
#1254729
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

ZigZig said:

yotsuya said:

They are green in every single transfer that I included. No cyan

That depends on how you calibrated your monitor 😉

How about Calibrate your brain before you open your mouth.

😃

They are cyan after the shift I have performed and there are many that are close to cyan in those shots rather than totally green hexagons.

Post
#1254549
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

how about the lasers choose weather or not they are green more lime green or strong cyan green.

there really is no consistancy but I personally find that Lime green looks good and the rest look no good with blobby color surrounding them so no brainer as far as I am concerned any laser not Lime green is not the right shade of green.

Post
#1254548
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

how about the lasers choose weather or not they are green more lime green or strong cyan green.

there really is no consistancy but I personally find that Lime green looks good and the rest look no good with blobby color surrounding them so no brainer as far as I am concerned any laser not Lime green is not the right shade of green.

Post
#1254545
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

If you watch the Gout Dvd when 3p0 is going in the tub from a dissolve in…

Look at the cyan hexagon lights behind him. They go from being Cyan to red once the disdolve effect is done.

these are shown as Green hecagon lights now in later transfers but I think they are actually that cyan color in reality.

but the sudden change in color would probably be the telecine machine starting it’s settings which was not possible to do on the actual dissolve effect. Hence cyan suddenly became red all of a sudden on this shot.

Vader with pink lights on his belt rather than green when he enters the Tantive.

Vaders chest plate…

On and on weird and unusual and impossible without something altering the image in an extreme way. But it’s also probably something that improved the way the film looked in many ways.

I appreciate the effort but would like to improve upon that effort.

Post
#1254480
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

yotsuya said:

Ronster,

This one is for you. For all our leaning yellow or red discussion, look how Threepio has fared. Compare the 1982 LD to the JSC LS. All all places in between.

Which one do you think is the right color. So many choices here.

The one i think looks best is top right Fox Ld.

don’t know if it is actually right or not but it looks the best and essentislly all these images you are posting prove that there is not really any wrong or right only looking better or worse.

The Binary sunset shot though is a special effects error or something, it is just “fucked up” and it’s not worth particularly much apart from knowing that looks totally wrong compared to the 3p0 shot makes sense no matter what different color is displayed from the transfer is relative no doubt to the rest of the film in a sense.

You need to look at the technidisc it was a transfer of technicolor print. Or atleast I think it was?

Essentially what I have done is shift the Gout to sort out the skin tones but this has left me with a video with a purple weirdness to it. Probably similar to what a print on the way out would look like. Bug I have dealt with the Purple problem not shifted it to hide the purple problem that it had.

So it is a good reason to do it… They were blatently shifting color on that transfer and it is plain to see that it was shifted to hide the problem.

Post
#1254145
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

Seriously yotsoya you pissed me off… But I am ok with you just stop inflicting your stuff on me.

I really felt like quitting the site ok I am here to make a post… I sat down with the Gout first 2 vobs most difficult took quite a bit more time than the remaing files everything after tbat flew through it looks good happy with it.

Hue Shift overall change througout Purple pulled back round to blue.

Things I noticed at this time…

The green lasers are off some of the time when it comes to the end of the film certain elements are in different hues for example tench background and lasers require positive shift / actors and bluescreen require negative shift. The way to circumnavigate this was to use selective correction but ideally you would take separate elements and re-composite in the correct color. Stars and starfields are cyan not blue/ purple.

The whole purple conundrum keeps showing up again and again and it is the plague of this film. Nothing “Should” be purple as a whole sort of tint put it this way. Purple in anyway shape or form tinted shows the degredation.

Sorry lots of posts here and just had a look today quite suprised… will read these when i get a chance but essentially I am done apart from snippets where I will capture between Vobs where the rip missed some frames.

I am personally happy with the result though I am pleased I did the process. Interesting also is that if you shift quite a few of the special edition shots say for instance mos eisley CGI shots they look like the images posted on the packaging of the laserdiscs and books.

Post
#1251670
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

You need to be sure that when you see these colors, these are the colors you are getting:

This really does not hold up when you consider Vader’s chest plate is Blue yet it is green in some shots.

I ask you to be reasonable about how brutal this might be… I told you and you just want red faces Green chest plates so on. That is what you want no matter what I am saying you want it to look fucked up. I don’t.

45% shift in Cyan is huge… How the hell does that happen?

Please answer this rather than keep having a go at me otherwise I quit this site.

Post
#1251606
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

dahmage said:

Is using an HDR monitor really the best way to color correct non-HDR sources? I fully admit i have no idea, but it sounds to me like maybe you shouldn’t be using that as a color correction monitor.

For a start I can’t even run the screen in native resolution as I have nothing 4K to put in or any HDMI 2.0 devices.

Rocky Horror is perhaps a good benchmark for the right time 1975 and how a good restoration should look.

This was quick in Gimp but Master Brightness and Contrast about +23 on both to bring this up to the same sort of level as Rocky Horror.

Before Brightness Contrast change. But Hue Shifted.

Original GOUT image color

As you can see I don’t want to do an awful lot to it anyway. This is basically the complete process of what I want to do. Apart from fixing the parts where the GOUT is no Good I plan to use the 97 Laserdisc.

Swingback on Cyan reveals Blue and Red Vader Chest Plate…Also notice the weird staining disappear on the left of the screen. This is about 45% out on hue for Cyan.

Here is my original Gout Shift

The process I am thinking of employing is the Purple swing back as well as the Brightness and contrast. This will be done via Selective Correction I also added some yellow in the Shadow here.

Basically I will do what ever I think it needs to get it looking better. Another Cyan Stain on the left mind you… It might be 45% in opposite direction this time?

Post
#1251540
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

Gladiator uncut would also be a big draw for myself personally.

I think the newly found outtakes from ghostbusters will show up at some point.

But how about The Good the Bad the Ugly. There is a glimmer of hope that these things can be put right and if 4K HDR put’s them Right I think adoption of that format will be good.

Rogue One original cut before re-shoots would be another one for the list.

Braveheart uncut also.

Highlander extended cut.

Post
#1251536
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

I think the only thing that will make me Adopt 4K HDR (Pay for the transmitter and the cost of the free reciever) is stuff we have not seen before.

I like some new films, a lot of new films I don’t like at all. But I think the only way off actually getting me signed up for adodption of this Standard is as follows.

Raiders of the Lost ark deleted scenes or uncut version.

Total Recall uncut

Conan the Barbarian uncut.

American Werewolf in London uncut.

Star Wars Originals and a revised Special Edition.

Lord of thr Rings Deleted Scenes.

Some other things butvthis would be my desire.

This would make me buy in on that format more so than the content being a different type HDR and 4K but that I could see some things I never seen before rather than it was just incrementally better. I just don’t feel any insatiable desire unless some of this stuff starts to crop up.

Post
#1251517
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

It’s already happened if you want to watch 4k HDR content you need a device capable of displaying it.

A normal 1080p HD screen can not downscale this you need to be able to take and handle the signal. thus the transmitter and reciever need to be of 4K HDR standard for which there are already different types of HDR.

It’s like trying to put a HD signal on an old CRT monitor. It won’t work because it is a different standard.

Because these things have different standards because they can do different things what older standards could not. A new product range is created and a set of standards are developed hut there was a lot of complication of 4K and what would be coupled with that on the extra pins of HDMI 2.0 or DVI. HDR won over HFR and HDMI with 2.0 ethernet probably also wins over HDMI 2.0 with return audio. The new standard means you have to buy the product range for the next best thing. I did not really care for having 4k screen or HDR it was like i got that for nothing because i simply wanted a larger screen. But I have it and the hope is from screen manufacturers perspective that i will buy into 4k HDR standard.

If you have a product to sell and It does not fit any particular old standard but a new one must be created for it. A association will help with Law, due dilligence and contracts and so on. They probably had very little to do with deciding HDMI 2.0 would carry HDR though on the spare pins.

You want to sell your product and hunt for big contracts you pay for the access via an association. The product itself could be made in China, Japan or South Korea. The sssociation will help meet standards, client access and when contract is one they tske another cut with the expert lawyers.

Obviously domestic stands and medical standards will be very different also as will military standards. Police and fire service would have slightly lower standards than medical or military but still above domestic.

Post
#1251446
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

Flubly said:

Ronster said:

Caliberate a monitor to somone elses monitor is nonsense.

Sorry, forgot to mention this in my last post:

Calibrating a monitor to someone elses’ monitor IS nonsense. Calibration is done to an external set of standards, a studio doesn’t have a particular monitor they’re trying to match. They use tools like the Spyder 5.

A list of image sets for calibration and clear instructions can get you good results too, though. Again, not hitting absolute perfection is not an excuse for not trying at all.

Also, SMPTE was founded in 1916. Their standards influenced the manufacturing process of the film Star Wars was shot on. Their standards have also influenced how cameras are built today, how TVs are built today, how editing programs are coded, the specifications of DCPs projected in theaters, the specifications of TV broadcast since TV’s birth, etc.

If you think these standards are bunk, I’d like to know why and what the science would be behind a new standard.

A television can be calibrated such that no amount of color correction could make a source look correct. If I shifted the hue on a TV so that the green subpixels aren’t on, you can boost green in your source file all day and still not see an iota of it on the screen. At the end of the day, the monitor/tv is the one physically emitting light towards your eyes, not the source media.

This is a an association body. It will cost a lot of money to be an associate and what that grants you access to clients who work within that association.

It’s another way of shrugging off competition from smaller companies. Just because they have standards does not mean the actual association or even members of that association created those standards. They merely recognise a set standard and to be a member and put an SMPTE stamp on your company will also mean you have to meet that standard no doubt.

They are also part of drug company imaging devices big pharma contracts.

There is not anything wrong with an association body per se but like I said, this is a way of shutting out smaller competitive companys out of contracts because they can not afford the membership fees of being part of the association. And contracts are probably rarely given outside SMPTE membership in certain spheres of influence.

Not all bad but not all good either totally un-competitive though.

$13,500 dollars good client access or $20,000 for better client access per year.

Post
#1251304
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

Calibrating my monitor from a hotel room miles away from my monitor is not possible.

To address the green comment, It is probably green contrast and it would also explain why the gout looks a bit dim. Having looked at it previously it was something I noticed and it is fairly safe to assume that I would balance contrast to zero or shape of channels or if particularly dark allow contrast in at the right color.

Post
#1251153
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

UnitéD2 said:

ZigZig said:

I’m really sorry to say that but… nobody likes the GOUT shifts that you did.
Because they are horrible.

That’s not true. The GOUT adjustment (on page 6) didn’t look that bad. And it isn’t just my opinion, as Dr Dre said that “most of these look good”.

What I don’t understand in your stuff, Ronster, is your idea that the proper way to color correct something would always be “shifting the hue”. It’s never so simple !

Thanks but I am very short of spare time, the only thing I havd really worked out is that there are different types of hue shifts… This means that because I can not do that type of shift in the editor I notmally use I will do this outside the program.

There could be a further tweak there might not be.

I honestly can not say until I find the actual time to look at it again…

I really like the film I really just want to tackle it somehow and however I can to try to get it even a small bit better. Time is the problem right now.

I will re-iterate my draft rule that after any shift it will be assessed if it is shift and it does not rule out any further manipulation, but I don’t want to really over do it because the RGB filter was making me compensate for some color errors the vlc capture will not neccessitate extra tweaks uless it really does need it.

I really want to find a way that it is a process where you touch it as little as possible but nailing down how to do this and finding what makes it tick is not easy. I have not looked at it at all in over a week so no progress further from finding there are different types of hue shifts which I actually never knew.

The doubt I have with regards to the shift rests with R2-D2 more than anything else. He is a big question mark and I fon’t have an answer apart from shift him sparately back.

Post
#1250896
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

no I like the way the Gout shifts look. It looks to me much much better than what the gout looks like without any changes.

if everyone hates that shut the thread. I don’t reall give a monkeys if you do or you don’t like it I do though.

But keep sticking with the red faces actors you only have to compare it to ESB or ROTJ to see it is totally wrong let alone any other film.

The very thing you are asking me to do over and over is circumnavigate that problem at a content level and not what it looks like on any particular screen. And I am being attacked for doing things differently. Had enough of the stupid jokers.

Post
#1250824
Topic
Star Wars - What is wrong and what is right... Goodbye Magenta
Time

you forgot I was trying to shift using wrong type of filters and an image editor.

the only reference I would say I am pleased with is the Gout shifting (11 images) and the planet shot with small deathstar everytging else was exploration and trying to figure it out… So really i have been trying to find out how to fix it.

But if you don’t like the Gout shifts that i did then oh well.