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Ronster

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10-Dec-2011
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25-Oct-2021
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Post
#1454485
Topic
Dune - Denis Villeneuve
Time

jedi_bendu said:

fmalover said:

Two changes I did like were Paul’s visions of possible future where Jamis becomes his mentor in the Fremen ways and friend, it greatly improved the scene where he sheds tears for a man he barely knew.

I also really love getting to see more of Beast Rabban and the effect he has on Arrakis. Imo that’s something that’s actually skipped over a little in the novel. Rabban is just someone who we mostly only hear about, his death is passed on as simple information as well.

The introduction was one of the pleasing additions that were made… We talked about it on a thread here about how could you show how the fremen wete repressed by the harkonen. Also the sigificance of the Arrakis palm trees which were originally going to be mentioned in the Lynch version first filmbook scene. This was done justice in the villuneve version and done well. Showing the burning palm trees too. The intro in the 2021 was going to be narrated by Reverend mother Mohim but it changed to be done by chani.

The other addition I really liked was showing Selusas Secundus and the Sandarkar. That was pretty cool with the throat singing and blood letting.

Post
#1454482
Topic
Dune - Denis Villeneuve
Time

@Jedi_bendu watch the spicediver redux of 1984 Dune not the theatrical or extended cut.

Still this has problems / issues but it’s currently the best extended cut on offer. It’s on youtube or internet archive I think.

Essentially you have to look past both theatrical and extended cuts of 1984 Dune. As neither feel fully complete.

The Spicediver Redux is the most complete version but it’s not thought out too well about how it might go together in a different way scene orders etc…Although it is clever how it does the filmbook scenes. Spicediver redux it’s main focus is trying to make it more like the book (both good and bad in my opinion) and it also did not restore music cues either. But it’s a very good effort… But still it can be better than that version.

It’s one of the classic butchered films that will probably never be resolved but like I said look past the theatrical and extended versions…

Post
#1454248
Topic
Dune - Denis Villeneuve
Time

jedi_bendu said:

Ronster said:

it has been dumbed down and reduced to a shallower paddling pool rather than an ocean of information.

Doesn’t this happen with every novel adaptation? It’s kind of in the nature of translating a book full of information to a visual medium. Things need to be communicated visually, such as Thufir’s special/unnatural ability to recite such precise information as I mentioned. Perhaps this isn’t such a problem with the 1984 film, I haven’t watched it just yet, but I know most of the complaints say it’s overstuffed and too confusing. I think the new movie has avoided being overstuffed and just barely avoided being too confusing.

That said, although I love the new film I do think we should get a long director’s cut and/or deleted scenes. I get the feeling a lot was cut, perhaps material containing a lot of the information you thought was lacking. Duncan’s actor Jason Momoa has advocated for a director’s cut, which he suggests could be “four-to-six” hours long.

There is a few things removed that have been confirmed.

  1. Duncan infiltrating Arrakis in the ship he was test flying but ejecting and skydive to surface (advance team)
  2. Jessica in the botanical conservatory.
  3. Gurney playing balliset

Although I would also assume scenes lost for Piter and Thuffer too the Mentat explaination.

Jessica making Love to Leto thats a big deal really let’s face it. Conception of Alia.

Some sort of explaination about folding space and that the guild navigators use the spice as in the book.

Villians short changed on the plot to oust atreides and it being piters plan although the baron claims it’s his plan. Piter as the real architect but upon his death then taking thuffer as the replacement for advice is now quite unexplainable I feel.

the traitor in the midst of arriving on Arrakis Jessica being accused although Huey does not find the message in the dead harkonen.

Over 3 hours to really do it justice given the choices of the pacing they employed people looking at one another and stuff.

The 1982 Lynch version and it’s various extended versions struggle in how to get all the information across in a streamlined way…And it’s not in the right order of sequence of scenes but if those issues were resolved it would be that bit better.

Post
#1454224
Topic
Dune - Denis Villeneuve
Time

jedi_bendu said:

Ronster said:

And thats a big problem concerning the factions like the bene geserit, spacing guild and the mentats there really is no explaination about them and they get no screen time at all even the Harkonen are not really fleshed out in any particular fashion and Gurney basically does nothing too.

I’ve seen a few reactions now from newcomers saying the movie was well made, but they need to rewatch it as there was a lot of information to comprehend. Dune has always been information-dense and that’s one of the reasons why it’s been difficult to adapt. I don’t remember hearing any spoken info about the Guild or smugglers and I think leaving them out of the worldbuilding, at least for now, is an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice as even more factions to keep track of (especially if they aren’t that important to the story yet) would have exacerbated the problem of non-book readers struggling.

I liked how the Bene Gesserit and the mentats are handled however. We see Thufir’s eyes roll into his head near the start as he precisely recites information, which gives you a visual sense of the Mentat ability without having to explain it (show not tell after all), and I think we see and hear enough about the Bene Gesserit to get a sense of their organisation without it losing its mystery.

Yeah we got a slice on the benegeserit and it made sense but too much has been dropped out particularly gurney being reduced and Guild and mentats although it is there thuffer does not matter at all he is nobody piter is also nobody. Pretty bad handling and so although everyone gushes over the special effects it’s a big fat “if you don’t know you don’t miss it” so essentially it has been dumbed down and reduced to a shallower paddling pool rather than an ocean of information. It’s ok but it’s just not really like the factions don’t matter… So now in part 2 if it get’s made there is an awful lot of ground to cover more than it actually needs to cover because it basically sacrificed most of the factions motives and who these people were and how they were Spice mutated. Oh well part 2 now is much more difficult because he’s put himself into a hole which is not easy to climb out… Expectations lowered on the sequal to be honest.

Post
#1454168
Topic
Dune - Denis Villeneuve
Time

fmalover said:

Ronster said:

Arrakis as I previously stated needed to be more colorful too.

That has been my biggest complaint from the start. The desaturated colour timing makes the movie look lifeless.

It could do with it for sure and that would round off the experience factor but as for the plot being better fleshed out I can only imagine there are things left out of the edit. It chose all focus on Paul & Jessica with a bit of Leto and the baron over basically none of the others having any real significance apart from Jason Mamoa (Duncan).

And thats a big problem concerning the factions like the bene geserit, spacing guild and the mentats there really is no explaination about them and they get no screen time at all even the Harkonen are not really fleshed out in any particular fashion and Gurney basically does nothing too.

It’s a very different take to not particularly explain or even show what these factions are and their purpose in the Dune Universe. In that regards it’s basically Atreides vs Harkonen with the fremen lurking in the backdrop every other faction and supporting charcter is basically sacrificed. Jessica in comparison to Lynch version comes off as an emotional wreck rather than strong and the guiding force.

Post
#1453961
Topic
Dune - Denis Villeneuve
Time

I saw this yesterday and without leaving any spoilers I’ll say it’s good but the supporting characters and motives are not really fleshed out enough I’m going to say outright that Lynch’s Dune is much better in this regard.

Special effects are good, music sound costumes and cinematography solid but it’s let down by not enough investment in the characters. Arrakis as I previously stated needed to be more colorful too.

It’s a solid effort but Lynch’s Dune is somehow better handled it might take liberties with the book but it’s the better adaptation at least as far as we have got into the story thus far in comparrison.

The new film has great special effects but without the great acting of Lynch vetsion and the characters are far better developed this is though however in consideration of Lynch and extended footage.

All round though it was a good film just not blown away by it.

Post
#1453143
Topic
Idea &amp; Info: '<strong>Sorcerer</strong>' - William Friedkin 1977 vs <strong>Wages of Fear</strong> - European theatrical release (see djsmokingjam's &amp; El Barto's posts for info on 2 separate project releases)
Time

I just got the old dvd release of sorcerer and noticed it looked vertically stretched… So I changed the aspect to 16:9 in VLC and it looks reasonably better horizontally stretched and filling the screen.

Any after watching it this way the other night I started thinking about the flashbacks of the characters baclstories in wages of fear but putting them all in the village before the terrorist attack and the opening credits. To me it feels like this was perhaps the way it was meant to play out.

Note scanlon waking from nightmare after his story.
Conversation regarding kaseem (no future).
Victor drinking in the bar after his story.
Nico the assasin into the plane arriving.

No flash back for Marquez though…

Anyway this seemed natural placement rather than the wages of fear botch job…Obviously inserting full or mostly full versions of the flash backs would be the premise for that idea…

Post
#1443286
Topic
Dune - Denis Villeneuve
Time

screams in the void said:

on the positive side ,the delay gives me time to re read the book . I just watched the Spicediver Redux edit again the other day and the first part of the first sci-fi mini series . To me ,they are like comparing apples to oranges . The Lynch film is my fave ( the spicediver redux is my go to version ) and the sci fi miniseries is more like a stage play with early cgi backdrops . Neither project really gets Baron Harkonnen right imho , both versions are over the top . The Lynch version is very maniacal cartoon villian with Lynchian weirdness and the sci -fi version even has him breaking the fourth wall at one point and they also use too many tilted camera angles for the Harkonnen scenes . I get it , they are the bad guys …but it was shot too much like the Adam West Batman series . I hope the new film makes him more menacing and serious . I have been thinking of doing my own personal edit of the Lynch film where Baron Harkonnen and his crew don’t show up until the attack on house atreides …seems like all you need to know about them is told through dialouge beforehand anyway and it would cut down on the cartonishness in my opinion ( your mileage may vary ) . I would also do away with Thufir milking the cat scene .

Yeah putting the first scene on geidi prime after the atreides are on Arrakis was what I was also thinking pushing it furthur back… And moving Leto’s inner thoughts about marrying Jessica to an earlier point perhaps on caladan.

Post
#1443173
Topic
Dune - radical fan edit <strong>ideas</strong>
Time

ChernobylLiquidator86 said:

Wonder if this still under work, these are incredible ideas!

I have not done anything on it particularly but I had a flick through the extended TV version the other day and I tried to make sense of some unused music.

For the Shadout mapes scene with Lady Jessica I think the music for this scene is “The secrets of the fremen” This was meant to end with a vision of Paul being Dead. It’s definitely not for the propecy scene with fremen reverand mother as the Spicediver cut assumes.

The Jamis funeral music score I think is the Track “The Fremen” which spills over into the water cache scene but I don’t think it works with that scene tagged on musically so perhaps and I am taking a guess that the Reverand mother “Prophecy scene” may appear here between the funeral and water cache scene and then for the water cache scene to follow. Or Alternatively It’s Keynes Suit being ripped open and “Take him to his desert to die” sandwhiched between Funeral and water Cache.

The Shot of the fremen outside the palace from the costume documentary should be accompanied by chants of “Mahdi” this would come prior to thuffer Huwats explaination of the prophecy to Leto. Previoously I thoiught it was to do with the water sellers but that seems incorrect now.

Post
#1443171
Topic
Dune - Denis Villeneuve
Time

Although I am quite excited for this film… It’s definitely a new take on the Dune story and although some of the special effects look great theres a part of me that looks at the Blue sky on Arrakis and thinks simple miss and could be better so I’m also expecting flaws built in to it.

I’ll go in with an open mind but I’ve gone from fairly excited to cautiously optimistic currently. I am expecting a good but flawed adaptattion like the others but It may be the best adaptation in some ways but worse in some ways than others.

Post
#1442407
Topic
Dune - radical fan edit <strong>ideas</strong>
Time

Nandi said:

Fantastic ideas guys

Well The Koch Media release is actually including the Spicediver fan edit…Wow interesting.

The Arrow release only has the theatrical cut with load of swag but apparently a documentary missing that will make it on to the koch media 7 disc set.

But considering they went through the OCN It’s a damn shame they never scanned the whole lot? Or atleast the scenes we know about ot perhaps that will come at some later point or never.

While David Lynch sit’s meditating on Dune… I am confident It can be fixed and he could fix it, there are obvious bits in the wrong order like the hunter seeker scene shadout mapes coming to the door the shadow in the corridor shot is yueh before he get’s Leto. There is another thing the shot of Alia with the Cris knife in slow motion over the dead Sandakur is actually when she is abducted not the victory of the atreides…There is a preceeding shot for whence the sandakar are walking the deseart at night and suddenly act surprised then we see Alia and we learn she is captured. Audio issues from crap TV cut bad music choices.

I’d forgive him if he did the effects in CGI made to look like old models and did his vision someone pay the man!

We’ve gone through it and it can be done all that is needed is the missing scenes any Space ship shots and dream sequences is easily done in a computer. The material is there stop being so stubborn Mr.Lynch heal the wound and do it providing you get paid of course but also providing you don’t ask too much and it’s personal gratification that you do finally have final cut.

Post
#1442071
Topic
Is anyone looking forward to Lord of the Rings Deleted scenes next year?
Time

CamSMurph said:

Might I asked how the OP obtained this much information?

I looked into it and I basically listened to the commentaries for which Peter says and reveals many things about the films.

Somethings are found in video games and the special features or other documentaries. Also snippets in trailers. The FOTR script also reveals some deletions. Amongst calenders and other books.

Post
#1436970
Topic
Is anyone looking forward to Lord of the Rings Deleted scenes next year?
Time

Baggins said:

So, do I understand good, that this year will be a lotr triology with deleted scenes? If yes, I am looking forward to see it. And I have another question, do you not know if they will make the hobbit triology with deleted scenes?

Apparently although it’s a bit confusing Jackson plans to do a documentry similar to how he did for the King Kong release but for each Lord of the rings film…Or perhaps it will be for the whole trilogy?

I’m hoping for some / all deleted scenes in there especially the lord of the rings.

I don’t know if he is planning to do the same for the hobbit?

Nothing concrete but it’s been teased. I would imagine Peter has daileys of stuff on DVD burnt off and Weta have fx shots stored and stuff.

Well heres hoping I’m holding out for the new bonus features as they are fantastic films. Should be something announced soon.

Post
#1406695
Topic
D U N E - D E L U X E E D I T I O N ( R E L E A S E D )
Time

I really like the sound of your edit without seeing it yet.

Have a dig through this thread particularly about structure of the opening and the big chunk of still further deleted material.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Dune-radical-fan-edit-ideas/id/65328/page/1

If you are planning a version 2 then there is scope to go further with some structural issues and visual effects.

But if you feel done with it and happy then no problem but I think there is still more to unlock about the film I wont list them all out but let me know if you feel like doing more.

Post
#1398255
Topic
44rh1n's &quot;The Fellowship of the Ring&quot; Extended Edition Color Restoration (Released)
Time

It was an all day afair but I had time…

https://vimeo.com/495937271

Enjoy the restored music and footage and fixed chronological scene orders which was another bodge up because they kept fiddling about with it hopefully this takes it back to a nearly or close to perfect version all that is needed is Gil Galads death really…Of which is not available but hopefully will be next year.

Post
#1398121
Topic
Is anyone looking forward to Lord of the Rings Deleted scenes next year?
Time

Just a small update…

The Audio Dialogue for “the one ring of power has been found” is in a trailer for Gandalf telling Saruman this is the case not sure why it is not in the movie… Pretty perplexing removal.

It seems that another scene from the trailer where Gandalf is in bagend saying “The Shadow has risen” or something like that cues the Barad-dur animation segway in to the torture of Gollum and then the exterior sceam of “Shire… Baggins” which is much clearer audio cut back to Frodo “Shire…Baggins” so the Barud-dur being built was a moved scene and should have happened and been seen at bagend.

Been doing an edit of the prologue and it is much better than the original but there is a last hurdle for removing Galadriels dialogue where it is not meant to be… Anyway the prologue is getting sorted.

It was an all day afair but I had time…

https://vimeo.com/495937271

Enjoy the restored music and footage and fixed chronological scene orders which was another bodge up because they kept fiddling about with it hopefully this takes it back to a nearly or close to perfect version all that is needed is Gil Galads death really…Of which is not available but hopefully will be next year.

Post
#1397778
Topic
44rh1n's &quot;The Fellowship of the Ring&quot; Extended Edition Color Restoration (Released)
Time

Who knows what will be on the Blu Ray collectors set but in trying to figure out the prologue which EA games held in their possession various versions… I have been looking through what was released on the games audio an aside from Gil Galads death scene which was censored. I have spotted a restored music cue in the Third age game but then this switches to a different music cue which is present in the Two Towers game Prologue and which also includes Elrond coaxing Isildur to cast the ring of power into the fires of Mount Doom before he is ambushed…Certainly worth checking the music here it is epic.

Such a hassle was made of the prologue and it almost feels like it has become mythic of what it could have been and was changed at the very last minute and got bodged up.

It is still good but it’s not as good as it could have been and that is because it kept getting fiddled about with Howard Shore must not known if he was coming or going it got changed so many times…

Anyway It is a project I might attempt tomorrow… Today is my Birthday and unlike Bilbo because of the coronovirus I won’t be able to do anything but just spend it by myself likr Gollum.

But to restore the music to this part seeing as it is available seems like a good cause although to truly represent what it might have been there is still more visuals and much unavailavle material, but it none the less can be better and I intend to make that happen.

The actual start of Galadriels monolgue has footage where she speaks elvish then I also feel it would sho stars and the mirror… The actual title the Lord of the rings was not to appear until Sauron Brandished his hand with the ring on… Building Barad Dur was also meant for the prologue it is something impossible but semi possible because of some of it is available…Let’s see what I can do with it,

Post
#1397453
Topic
Is anyone looking forward to Lord of the Rings Deleted scenes next year?
Time

So upon listening to the writer and director commentary for about the fourth time it seems fellowship of the rings structural problems stem from handing off Gandalfs prologue to galadriel or perhaps deciding how much Galadriel / Gandalf / Elrond should own which and what part of the history.

At a guess if we go with galadriel recounting the story of the rings bar the very start of her Elvish Mutterings.

When gandalf leaves for minas tirith essentially you could use the very begining of Galadriels prologue here telling of “the world is changed I feel it in the water…” and so on with environment visuals…this could co-incide with Baradur being rebuilt.

Now Gandalf is at Minas Tirith researching the ring a story only fire can tell.

Gandalf arrives back in the shire and this plays out as in the film.

We then go to a recap of where gandalf had been recounting his meeting with Gollum and learning the enemy knows of the shire and had learned Gollum was captured not only by Strider and kept in Mirkwood by Thranduil but also by Mordor previously. This part is in the film as it stands is made of 3 separate versions of the conversation. How much of it is Divulged is unkonwn in alternate versions.

Once Gandalf darts off to Orthanc to meet Saruman it is then we learn not only about the Maia spirits but that “the nine have left minas morgal” to hunt the ring I feel the Visuals og the nine on horseback should be here.

The shots of the Black riders asking and attacking Hobbits are dispersed later in the timeline raising tension whilst gandalf is trapped and not before this time…

In Moria When talking of Gollum Drodo line should be shortned to “He Escaped” and Gandalf Should have his “escaped or was cutloose…” removed.

Moving Sarumans monologue on Moria could be done later to bridge the jump from them deciding to take the path to Moria and actually arriving there not whilst they are in the decision making process as it were so it would cut from the Image of the Balrog in the book to the Dwarf Aqueduct ruin.

The next scene shuffling part is after Moria Legolass talks of the Beautey of the forest the absence of the Goblins attacking which is deleted should be re-instated. The script states that Haldir takes Frodo and sam up to a high point to look out across the Woods with Dol Guldor visible and Aragorn asks for their protection. Aragorn also talks of the Beutey of the elves also Upon reaching Lorien all shots should be graded as if it were night. Legolass in Lorien in his new costume is perhaps they do arrive in the day but they do not climb the tree stairs until nightfall so there must be some kind of sunset shot missing more than likely. and possibly Haldir saying “Come with us” is preceeding climbing the tree.

This is a guess and not anything concrete but an attempt to fix the inconsistency of the lorien part.

The last part that is a mess is the sarn gebir rapids which although we don’t require a fully fledged battle scene we could have done with a few potshots taken and a quick cgi speed off down the rapids taking us to nightfall and with Gollum following on the log. This then raises the tension for the point where the Urucks catch up at Amon Hen basically rather than intercutting between urucks and the boats a physical attack would have really tied that up even at a small scale and made us feel the chase much more. Never the Less the script does state that when the fellowship look about they were meant to be seing Sarumans crows circling above them but it is missing.

This is a re-strucure guess imagining and uttetance without actually putting it to the test of trying but I am atarting to feel a slight restructure could work and perhaps to the films benefit although I don’t mind how it is if you can make it work better then why not?

Post
#1397434
Topic
44rh1n's &quot;The Fellowship of the Ring&quot; Extended Edition Color Restoration (Released)
Time

Chewielewis said:

Ronster said:

Centurion said:

Ronster said:

Wait for Blu ray next year…

I really doubt the colours on the blu will be different from the UHD disc. They seem to be stylistic choices by Peter Jackson, and there isn’t any huge backlash because, all in all, they are an improvement over the old blu’s.

Yeah but then you wont have to convert the HDR to SDR assuming that is another hurdle may aswell wait for the SDR Blu… Atleast that is what I meant and it will have more detail still in the majority of parts but perhaps not all especially the scrubbed scenes which is the point right?

No The new BRs will be downscales and conversions of the new 4K HDR master.

Frodo “I’m going to Mordor alone”

Sam “That’s right, and I’m going with you!”

You see what you just did 😉