RogueLeader

I have this tinfoil theory that RJ separated Finn & Poe’s stories in TLJ not because “their dialogue was interchangeable”, but because he was considering making them a romantic pair and we would see that develop in their journey. When Disney gave him a big NO, he still wanted some romance, so he separated their characters and added Rose.

I don’t really believe this, Rose and Poe are pretty distinct voices from each other so I understand that story decision, but if it ever turned out there was some truth to it I wouldn’t be surprised.

Magnificent Seven = copy + paste + change a bit for the worse + rename

Sir Ridley said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Sir Ridley said:

Hal 9000 said:

I predict Kylo Ren will cut Rey’s head off.

I predict that he then undergoes a medical procedure to attach her head next to his own, and this two headed monster proceeds to rule the galaxy as Emperor Reylo.

Just what we need, a The Thing with Two Heads rehash.

It is inevitable at this point. Remember Maz’s line from TFA: “The belonging you seek is not behind you, it is a head.”

Holy shit, that is brilliant and I hate you for it.

This is why I think it’d be fun to get an Old Republic series where we can see Jedi and Sith discussing their philosophies of the Force (and see how members of both the Jedi and the Sith don’t always agree with their own Order). We can see the Jedi’s turn to fundamentalism, and Bane’s rejection of the Sith dogma of his time and the creation of his Rule of Two.

Hmm, thanks for the info Ash. I may just have to get in there and see what I have to work with. The reason I’m asking is because I’m cutting some lines from that scene, so I had the idea of having the music start earlier in the scene so the music doesn’t just start suddenly.

Good idea Dom. I checked the FYC tracklist and what I’m looking for should be between “An Imperial Test of Power” and “Approach to Eadu”, but the former is just the music as they are escaping Jedha, and the latter starts when they arrive at Eadu.

EDIT: I’ve also updated the main post of this thread.

Can anyone help me identify the track that is used in the U-Wing scene after they escape Jedha? It starts playing toward the end of the scene, right when Chirrut says, “I believe her.” I don’t know if it is on the soundtrack. If I were to edit with isolated audio tracks, might there be a track that is mostly just the music? (I’ve never edited with 5 channel audio so I’m not sure where to even start with that.)

I like to think of the dark side referencing the unknown or mysteries of the Force. “If one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects…”
Mysteries that the Jedi are too afraid to explore.

It is more likely the Jedi came up with the terms “light” and “dark” to reference how the two sides relate to positive and negative emotions. But Sith kept using the term in defiance of the Jedi doctrine. Or it could be a combination of both ideas.

But that’s all in-universe.

So I think the tracking forb tech is an extension of the technology we’ve seen in the films that can detect life signs on ships or escape pods, except they are synchronized with the biosignature of an individual (I’m guessing with the use of DNA samples). I’ve seen people complain about it making bounty hunting too convenient, but I think you still have to at least be on the same planet as your target to be able to track them hotter-colder style. It’s a big galaxy, so laying low on a backwater world is probably a good idea unless you stir up some trouble or someone spots you in a cantina or something (which is probably how they were found in episode 4).

I’ve noticed a quite a few comments regarding the last two episodes being “filler episodes” with little purpose. I think it says more about how the landscape of television has changed in the past twenty years. Shows have become more focused on an overarching narrative rather than being episodic, and I think that has led people to feel like it is a waste of time if the plot isn’t being moved forward in a very direct way. I like the idea that show could just be about Mando trying to survive in this lawless galaxy (and being a single dad).

EDIT: I think the character at the end is just Mando, and went back for her for some reason.

I think he was trying to make it look more like him.

If you couldn’t do a total face replacement, you could possibly be the “dragon eyes” that are on his helmet along that visor of his grey helmet. I’m assuming that would be easier.

Huh, I definitely think those battlefront lines could be used for an edit with a PT-to-OT philosophy in mind. I still prefer Wingreen but they are a lot better than Morrison’s original recording.

Huh, that Rex one is pretty cool. I’m guessing deepfaking the rebel would be a challenge considering the beard.

Is that a still image of the Death Troopers or a 3D model?

I was just thinking about this movie a little today, and while I don’t mind the Canto Bight sequence, I had a thought about an alternative route they could’ve taken with Finn’s storyline. This was originally going to be a brief paragraph but it turned into an outline, so I hope you’ll indulge me.

I know many people feel the space chase feels rather dull, but I think Finn’s story could have stayed entirely on the Raddus. With RJ’s new “whodunnit” movie Knives Out just released, I think you could have had a story set entirely on the massive rebel ship where it is a race against the clock to identify the First Order spy who they believe is responsible for leaking their location.

In the scene where Holdo is introduced, the Resistance Officer could explain that they believe there is a spy on board transmitting their location to the First Order. Everyone would look around wondering if the spy is in the room with them at that very moment. Then, she introduces Holdo, a former Rebel leader and surviving New Republic senator. This set up could help emphasize why Holdo does not discuss her plan with anyone (because of the spy, Holdo tells Poe it is a “need-to-know” plan), and why Poe distrusts her. Leia told him some New Republic senators were secret First Order agents, and how did Holdo avoid being killed on Hosnian Prime? He begins to wonder if Holdo is actually sabotaging their chances of survival.

At the beginning of the film, Finn wakes up from his coma (which will have a bigger effect on Finn this time around), but when Poe finds him roaming the halls, Finn doesn’t immediately recognize Poe. Poe begins to explain everything and suddenly the memories begin flooding back, leading to “Where’s Rey?” Poe gives Finn the jacket back, and Finn admits that he hasn’t joined their cause, but Poe says it is okay and that he is “Where he belongs”.

Later on, he tries to jump ship like in the movie, but Rose throws him in the brig with another deserter that could fit the role of DJ, a voice of disillusionment for Finn. Poe comes to the brig and is disappointed with him, but gives Finn a second chance by getting him to use his knowledge to help identify the First Order spy. Seeing how helping save the fleet could save Rey (and being currently useless behind bars), he agrees to help. Poe recruits Rose to help Finn with this secret mission, and while she distrusts Finn, Poe vouches for Finn and explained how Finn saved his life. DJ tries to chime in with a suggestion, but they ignore him.

As Poe tries to determine Holdo’s loyalties, Rose and Finn go spy-hunting across the massive capital ship they’re on. This would replace the Casino scene. Through an investigation sequence we would meet various human and alien Resistance members, and as Finn is trying to help identify the spy, he would learn how they have all been affected by the First Order. During this, Finn’s own loyalties get questioned. Rose asks Finn about how he joined the First Order, and he tells her how he and the other stormtroopers were taken as children and brainwashed by the First Order. Rose then shares her own story to Finn about her sister and her homeworld. Hearing these various stories help Finn begin to sympathize with the cause more. As their conversation winds down, Finn and Rose catch someone in a suspicious act, which leads them into an intense chase throughout the ship. They eventually catch him with BB-8’s help. Poe interrogates him in the brig (reflecting his own interrogation in TFA), but concludes that he isn’t a spy, but just another frightened soldier trying to jump ship.

With little to no leads, they begin to wonder if they will be able to find the spy in time. Rose suggests that if they could somehow get on board their ship, she could access their computers and determine the identity of the spy. Finn counters that getting onto Snoke’s ship is impossible. Then, DJ interjects from a nearby cell, “I can do it.” He explains he can slice through their shields so they can reach the First Order’s server. In return, he wants to be free to take a ship and leave after the mission. While they don’t fully trust them, in their desperation they come up with the plan: they’ll sneak onto Snoke’s ship and identify the spy, relay that info to Poe who will then arrest them and make the jump to hyperspace. 3PO, who is with them, tells Poe that Holdo would not agree to this plan, and Poe retorts that it is a “need-to-know” plan.

So Finn, Rose, DJ, and BB-8 steal a ship and sneak onto the Supremacy. While Poe mutinies (already believing Holdo to be the spy), they make it to the computer and they find a hologram recording of the spy communicating with the First Order. And the big moment reveals it to be…. Finn. Finn has no recollection of this, but after they are captured, Hux and Phasma explain how it happened. When Finn woke up from his coma, he thought that he was still a stormtrooper. When he realized where he was, he thought he had been captured and subsequently contacted the First Order via hologram (like Maz), who then saw the opportunity to recondition him as a sleeper agent. Maybe we could get some brief flashbacks as Finn remembers these events, and see them use some form of hypnosis to recondition Finn. This is why Finn had amnesia initially in the film.

DJ is revealed to have thrown the Resistance under the sail barge like in the theatrical film, and Hux then orders to start blowing up the Resistance transports. We watch as the various Resistance members we met and heard stories from during Finn and Rose’s investigation get killed one by one. All because of Finn. Rose is shocked and Finn is distraught, but after Hux leaves, Phasma uses some kind of hypnotic suggestion on Finn to make him try and kill Rose. Finn tries to fight against the command, but he’s overcome. Rose tries to snap him out of it, telling him he is a good person. Right when you think he is going to kill Rose, (maybe he is choking her death, and sees his own reflection in the hangar floor) Finn overcomes the conditioning and retakes control. Finn then fights Phasma, defeats her, then they escape.

Finn decides to go back to “where he belongs” and they rendezvous with the Resistance. Poe is angry at Finn when they return, but Rose vouches for Finn and explains how he broke his conditioning and saved her life. Leia says she believes them. Finn apologizes to Poe and they kiss and make up. Finn is ready to get back at the First Order for what they did to him. He is angry, and full of guilt with the deaths he has indirectly caused. So when Finn tries to fly into the cannon, his motivation to do so feels even more justified. I would actually keep Rose stopping Finn, because I think it would reflect nicely with Finn saving hers. I would just make it more obvious that Finn would not have stopped it and it was purely suicide, maybe show an AT-AT about to shoot him and she knocks him out of the way. I also like the parallel of Finn ending TFA unconscious from trying to protect a friend, and then Rose does the same for Finn in TLJ.

The sleeper agent angle might feel corny, but I think that would help keep the focus on Finn and his character arc for this film. He has these two sides in him, and we actually get to see that internal battle made manifest.

To be honest I still like the film as-is, but I think something like this would’ve been fun too.

Spottyfriend said:

RogueLeader said:

This seems to be a different faction of Mandalorians than the ones we have seen before. Perhaps they still follow the ancient traditions of Mandalore whereas the majority of Mandos, like the ones from Clone Wars and Rebels, have become more progressive over the centuries. In a conversation with a friend I joking referred to the Mando’s tribe as “The Amish of Mandalorians”.

Comparing Mandalorians to Christians seems like a weird comparison, but I think it could help get the point across.

The New Mandalorians like Satine Kryze and her pacifist faction would be like modern secular Christianity, which fought against the traditions of Mandalore, which would be like your typical conservative Christian beliefs (gay marriage, pro-life vs pro-choice, etc.).
Death Watch would be like radical Christian extremists, fighting to preserve their traditions but going overboard with it. Their attempted coup in the Clone Wars could be compared to Gilead from The Handmaid’s Tale.
The Tribe from The Mandalorian might be a decent comparison to Old Order Amish, who still live and practice older Christian traditions in isolation and breaking those traditions could result in exile or ostracism, beliefs which might seem excessive to even the modern conservative Christian (Clan Wren and the other Clans we see in Rebels as an example, since they seem to remove their helmets without issue, but still follow their traditions more-so than Satine’s faction did).

At first I thought The Tribe’s fundamentalist beliefs might’ve been a reaction to the possible failed rebellion that Rebels was setting up, but in Chapter 4, Mando said he had not shown anyone his face since he was adopted by The Tribe, so their practices would predate the Empire. I could be totally off-base, but the idea of varying “denominations” of Mandalorians coexisting would be pretty interesting to me and make them seem more like a living, fluid culture rather than a two-dimensional “warrior race”.

I felt like it is being hinted that ‘the purge’ is something that happened to the Mandalorians during imperial rule that meant that they were pushed underground. The ultra-strict culture that our Mando is part of is just the result of the socio-cultural changes post-purge.

That’s what I thought at first, but Mando said no one has seen his face since he was adopted by the clan, which would’ve been during the Clone Wars. It’s possible the Tribe was pushed underground as a result of the Empire’s purge, but some of their more fundamentalist practices seem to pre-date that event.

I guess that is why they made all Jedi clones go mad in the old EU. And I think it is best not to go too crazy with the clones before it gets too sci-fi and less space fantasy. It is fun and trippy to think about though!

This has always been an interesting discussion to me so I’ll share a few things I’ve found.

This is the prologue from Allan Dean Foster’s novelization of Star Wars:

ANOTHER galaxy, another time.

The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. No need to note where it was or whence it came, only to know that… it was the Republic.

Once, under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the Jedi Knights, the Republic throve and grew. But as often happens when wealth and power pass beyond the admirable and attain the awesome, there appear those evil ones who have greed to match.

So it was with the Republic at its height. Like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within though the danger was not visible from outside.

Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.

Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.

Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.

But a small number of systems rebelled at these new outrages. Declaring themselves opposed to the New Order they began the great battle to restore the Old Republic.

From the beginning they were vastly outnumbered by the systems held in thrall by the Emperor. In those first dark days it seemed certain the bright flame of resistance would be extinguished before it could cast the light of new truth across a galaxy of oppressed and beaten peoples…

From the First Saga

Journal of the Whills

Here is an interesting write-up from Thrawn McEwok on the boards at theforce.net

Another Galaxy, Another Time…

The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. And for a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the Dark Times - before the Empire.

Obi-Wan Kenobi, General and Jedi Knight, fought in the Clone Wars, serving Bail Organa of Alderaan. Fighting with him, another Jedi, Anakin Skywalker - a cunning warrior, a good friend, and the greatest starfighter pilot in the galaxy.

When he met Anakin, Obi-Wan was amazed at how strongly the Force flowed in him. He thought that he could train him as well as Yoda, the Jedi Master who had instructed him.

Obi-Wan’s brother, Owen Lars knew Anakin, but didn’t hold with his ideals - he thought he should stay on Tatooine, and not get involved in the Clone Wars. Instead, Anakin followed Obi-Wan off on an idealistic crusade, and became a hero. The pilot who would fly as Red Leader at the Battle of Yavin, was awed to meet him when he himself was just a boy.

But Obi-Wan’s pride had terrible consequences for the Galaxy. Anakin fell to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan thought that there was still good in him, but after a lightsaber duel, Anakin fell into molten lava, and became Darth Vader. He hunted down and destroyed the Jedi Knights. President Palpatine took absolute power, and the Republic was replaced by the Galactic Empire.

Obi-Wan took Anakin’s son Luke back to Tatooine, where he was raised by Owen - who told him that his father had been a navigator on a spice freighter. The Jedi became a hermit, keeping his friend’s lightsaber, which Anakin had wanted his son to have when he was old enough.

But there was another Skywalker, who remained safely anonymous: Princess Leia, adopted daughter of Bail Organa, whose real mother died when she was very young.

The clone wars were underway thirty-five years before ANH, and by the last stages of the war, large numbers of clone warriors - grown too quickly by the Clonemasters in Spaarti Cylinders - had gone insane. The Mandalorian Shocktroopers from the planet Mandalore were enemies of the Jedi during the same conflict, and other disturbances around the same time involved Jedi Knights dealing with Dark Jedi at Bpfashh and with the Jensaari at Susevfi.

One issue I had with the idea that Obi-Wan and Owen were brothers was the fact that they clearly do not share the same accent or last name, and trying to explain that would feel like a stretch. Someone mentioned that they thought Anakin came from a more noble class, since James Earl Jones’ depiction of Vader seems to make him speak more flowery than someone who grew up a farmer, but Obi-Wan does say, “He thought [Anakin] should’ve stayed here an not gotten involved.” But if Anakin and Owen were brothers, why do they have different last names? To me, if Anakin was blood-related to anyone Luke knew, it would make some sense if Beru was a Skywalker, Anakin’s sister, who married Owen. Perhaps Owen and Beru were just close friends with Anakin and Obi-Wan met them when he recruited young Anakin.

Also, the Clone Wars were always kept pretty vague. By the way Obi-Wan describes them, they would seem to be more like crusades rather than a civil war as depicted in the prequels. Honestly, I picture something more along the lines of the Mandalorian Wars from KOTOR, and Obi-Wan and Anakin would’ve been similar to Revan and Malak. There may have been multiple clone masters fighting against one another, or the Jedi had to take out different Clone Masters that popped up throughout the galaxy over a period of time. The Mandalorians seem to have been involved in the war to some capacity, but I honestly think the simplest idea would’ve been to make it a war against a Mandalorian clone army. Maybe they also cloned some Jedi to use against real Jedi or, or in their desperation the Republic tried to clone Jedi to help with the war, but those clones went mad and became dark Jedi like Joruus C’boath. Apparently Zahn originally wanted to make him a mad clone of Obi-Wan, which is interesting because an early theory about Star Wars was that Obi-Wan was a clone of “Ben Kenobi” originally called OB-1. Maybe the Republic could’ve had an army of clones as well like in the actual prequels, so it would’ve been Clones vs Clones.

I also think The Secret History of Star Wars has interesting analysis of the potential timeline and ages of Anakin and Obi-Wan during the prequels based off what we knew of them before the prequels.

Some various relevant images:

Early concepts of Jedi seem to be more in-line with Luke’s appearance in Return of the Jedi.

This might’ve been said but I felt that was the point. Characters like Jolee, Qui-Gon, and Luke could be considered “grey” relative to the status quo of the more fundamentalist Jedi, but that philosophy is more in line with what the Jedi originally were, before they became more dogmatic. So Qui-Gon and Luke are what the Jedi are meant to be, so they shouldn’t be called “grey”. They’re just Jedi. If anything, the prequel Jedi could be called something different.

Also, the “I can use both dark side AND light side powers!” idea that people equate to grey Jedi is different from new Jedi like Luke who acknowledge their inner shadow that everyone has rather than ignore it, like the Prequel Jedi did.

This seems to be a different faction of Mandalorians than the ones we have seen before. Perhaps they still follow the ancient traditions of Mandalore whereas the majority of Mandos, like the ones from Clone Wars and Rebels, have become more progressive over the centuries. In a conversation with a friend I joking referred to the Mando’s tribe as “The Amish of Mandalorians”.

Comparing Mandalorians to Christians seems like a weird comparison, but I think it could help get the point across.

The New Mandalorians like Satine Kryze and her pacifist faction would be like modern secular Christianity, which fought against the traditions of Mandalore, which would be like your typical conservative Christian beliefs (gay marriage, pro-life vs pro-choice, etc.).
Death Watch would be like radical Christian extremists, fighting to preserve their traditions but going overboard with it. Their attempted coup in the Clone Wars could be compared to Gilead from The Handmaid’s Tale.
The Tribe from The Mandalorian might be a decent comparison to Old Order Amish, who still live and practice older Christian traditions in isolation and breaking those traditions could result in exile or ostracism, beliefs which might seem excessive to even the modern conservative Christian (Clan Wren and the other Clans we see in Rebels as an example, since they seem to remove their helmets without issue, but still follow their traditions more-so than Satine’s faction did).

At first I thought The Tribe’s fundamentalist beliefs might’ve been a reaction to the possible failed rebellion that Rebels was setting up, but in Chapter 4, Mando said he had not shown anyone his face since he was adopted by The Tribe, so their practices would predate the Empire. I could be totally off-base, but the idea of varying “denominations” of Mandalorians coexisting would be pretty interesting to me and make them seem more like a living, fluid culture rather than a two-dimensional “warrior race”.

canofhumdingers said:

My opinion has not changed. I will admit that I was surprised the first third or so fared better than I remembered. I always thought the chase for Zam Wessel on coruscant was boring but I actually enjoyed it this time. And overall I felt much the same as I did about TPM: not great but I don’t hate it.

What else about the first third of the movie did you feel made it fair better than what you remembered?

Then we have the worst, most awkward and unconvincing romance scenes I’ve ever sat through. Then we have Padme comforting Anakin after slaughtering an entire clan of sentient beings. Then we have the droid factory and battle scenes with 3PO where he quite literally becomes a cartoon.

Do you not like that Anakin slaughtered the Tuskens, or that he told Padme he did and didn’t seem to register that big red flag?

I hate this movie. It is wholly unredeemable and I have no desire to see it again.

Oh and the sword choreography in this absolutely sucks. It’s a big step down from TPM.

Yeah, the swordplay definitely feels like a downgrade compared to TPM, not only with the choreography but the location felt less interesting as well. I think it would’ve been an interesting contrast if they had shot and blocked the choreography more akin to the fight scenes in Ridley Scott’s The Duelists. It would have shown how Dooku was a more dangerous opponent than the aggressive Maul because if you made one mistake he would exploit it and kill you. It would have made the duel tense in a different way, and suited Christopher Lee’s capabilities as an actor. I almost feel like they may have been going for this, but it doesn’t feel like it was shot or cut with that in mind.

While there are plenty of female fans of the female characters in the Sequel Trilogy, I will say that I think it would have been a great idea for George and Kathleen to have hired a female writer to help write TFA. Since even George had planned for the central character to be a girl, I think it would have made a lot of sense to allow a female writer to give her take on the story (although I imagine women at Lucasfilm like Kennedy and Kiri Hart did give their perspective).

Rodney-2187 said:

Many planning on skipping it would likely change their minds if word-of-mouth is overwhelmingly positive.

Definitely, but we won’t really see that until after the movie comes out.

Gotcha. Can’t keep up with the initials.

Is SIW a typo or is it supposed to be Social Injustice Warrior?

I’ve had at least 8-10 people tell me they are going to see it, but you’ve heard the same from pretty much no one. So which of us is right? I don’t know how the movie will do, but I think anecdotes can only take us so far when it comes to predicting blockbuster performance.

In that case you’re on a good track! I thought the lip syncing was really well done. Fits nicely!

You may be planning to do this already, but I think more needs to be done to make the dubbing feel more integrated into the scene. Right now, it feels like a clean voiceover, as if this was someone doing a video essay on YouTube, especially compared to how Qui-Gon and Obi-wan’s dialogue sounds. I know there are audio effects through Audition and other audio programs that can help add an echo to dialogue to make it feel like it is being spoken in different types of environments. Alternatively, someone once told me about an older technique called ‘worlding’ where you would take your ADR, play it out loud in a location similar to where the lines are spoken in the scene, and rerecord them in that location. That way you are getting additional ambiance and echo that helps ground the dialogue naturally within an environment. Your Boss Nass scene actually has a noticeable reverb.

So, for example, in the Bongo scenes, you could perhaps take your new Jar Jar dialogue, play it out loud inside your car and rerecord it. Also, for how much Jar Jar moves around, I wonder if recording some foley for when he face palms, rests his arm in the chair, slumps down in his chair, clothes jostling, etc., could help sell the new dialogue as well.