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RogueLeader

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11-Jun-2015
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28-Mar-2024
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Post
#1325877
Topic
Dom's (Possibly) Useful TROS Edit (WIP)
Time

I’m digging your cut list. I think the biggest thing to help make Rey Nobody work is figure out how to rework Kylo Ren’s dialogue. We could reuse dialogue from TFA/TLJ, but we might need to look through Adam’s filmography, or even interviews, where we could find new lines that could work in this context. Or someone that could do a decent impression, since the mask voice effect could help hide the difference between Adam and the voice actor.

Post
#1325864
Topic
Episode IX: THE SHATTERED SWORD - DETAILED SUMMARY COMPLETE
Time

Haha, I love the imagery of Rey falling asleep while listening to 3PO read the Jedi texts. Also like Kylo holding steady while the other officers slide across the bridge. This scene makes me think of Anakin trying to pilot the Invisible Hand to the surface of Coruscant.

I will say the image of Kylo missing both his left arm and left leg feels pretty dark! I guess Anakin losing three limbs at once was pretty dark too, but those wounds were cauterized at least.

Post
#1325855
Topic
<em>The Rise of Skywalker</em> - Rewrite Discussion Thread
Time

Wanted to challenge myself slightly and “write” additional scenes for The Rise of Skywalker as we got it, and also make a few slight changes to the overall plot. I’ll probably do a major rewrite eventually, but I just wanted to spit out a few small ideas that I think could have improved the film.

I want to start by addressing the general story arcs for some of the main characters, excluding Rey and Ben, who’ll I’ll touch on later.

Finn:
I think the simplest change would be to add more to Finn and Jannah’s interactions. First of all, if you look at Jannah and her followers, you wouldn’t even know they were former Stormtroopers. I think their costumes could consist of bits and pieces of stormtrooper armor to make that clearer. In Finn and Jannah’s conversation, Jannah could say that her and the other stormtroopers just want to stay and hide, not get involved. But Finn inspires them to join the fight, because it is the right thing to do. Also, when Finn and Poe are on the Star Destroyer, you could give Finn some kind of interaction with one or multiple stormtroopers that sets up something later on in the film.

The film itself brings up a few times that the First Order would begin harvesting more children to man the Sith Fleet, but we never see that have much of an effect on the story, so I would add a subplot of Stormtroopers raiding a village and kidnapping all the children from there as the parents beg for them to not to. Later, we see that the First Order has put Lobot-like implants on them in order to make them totally obedient. The final mission would change from destroying the transmission tower that will allow the Sith Fleet to leave Exegol, to Finn destroying the control tower that controls the children’s implants. So the goal of the final battle goes from “fighting the enemy” to “saving the innocent”. We see various ships rescue the children after the main ship is destroyed. During the final epilogue, we would see Finn and Rose bring all of the children back to their village, and perhaps even stormtroopers. Maybe we could see Jannah and her group interact with a separate group of stormtroopers as they all remove their helmets, realizing that they are finally free.

You could even get that brief sequence with Finn instead, and not have the children subplot, but the harvesting children subplot is mentioned in the film a few times, so I figured I would incorporate it. But since Finn’s journey started with destroying a village, I think it would be nice for his journey to end by helping a village.

Poe:
I definitely felt like Poe’s journey didn’t grow much from the last film, so I wanted to highlight some ideas that I think could help demonstrate Poe becoming a leader. First of all, I would remove the crap about Poe being a former spice-runner. Instead, I think it would be more fitting if Zorri was a former New Republic pilot that Poe flew with that became a criminal after the First Order took over. She could be mad at Poe for leaving the New Republic to join the Resistance, or failing to stop Starkiller from destroying Hosnian Prime. She has lost hope of the Republic ever returning, and has given up basically. But Poe tells her why he still thinks there is hope (maybe even repeats Holdo’s “hope is like the sun” line), and Zorri comments on how Poe has changed from that hothead pilot she knew so long ago. Making Zorri a former Republic pilot also better sets up why we see her flying an Y-Wing at the climax of the film.

After Leia dies and Poe becomes the de-facto general, the Resistance comes to the conclusion that they have to send a message to their allies to join them at Exegol. They comment that without Leia to send that message, it’s unlikely that anyone will have any hope of victory, but Poe says that Leia’s legacy still lives on through them. And with that, we get a new sequence where Poe dons a white cape and records a rallying speech that gets sent out to their allies across the galaxy. Lando says he’ll wait at the rendezvous for anyone who shows up to escort them to Exegol, and then Poe stands on the bridge of the Tantive IV and leads the Resistance to the last battle. So when the big fleet shows up at the last minute, it is because of POE.

In the epilogue, we’d see Poe on Coruscant, meeting with representatives from various worlds and shaking hands with them, signifying the return of democracy in the galaxy.

Chewbacca:
I think Chewie’s character needed a bit more resolution than what we got in the film, so I wanted to add three brief scenes to sort of round out his story in this last chapter of the saga. First, I think it would be nice to get a brief conversation between Maz and Chewie in the first act of the film, where Maz asks Chewie about being relieved of his life debt to Han and how his family must miss him. Chewie growls and Maz replies in a way that implies that he’s staying to help Leia complete her mission, because that is what Han would have wanted.

Later, while Chewie is a prisoner aboard the Star Destroyer, him and Kylo/Ben (along with some of the Knights of Ren) have a brief interaction. Kylo orders him to give up the location of the Resistance, but Chewie remains silent. Kylo tries to search Chewie’s mind, but when he does, Chewie only forces him to relive happy memories from his childhood with him, Han and Leia. This overwhelms Kylo, and when one of the Knights asks if they can kill Chewie, he snaps and says no, then quickly adds that he could still be useful.

After the final battle has been won, we get a brief epilogue sequence of Chewie finally returning home to his family on Kashyyyk.

Rose:
I don’t necessarily think Rose needs some kind of major character arc. I think simply seeing her go from a lowly mechanic in TLJ to an important member of the Resistance in IX would be plenty for her character. But I think there were plenty of ways Rose could’ve gotten plenty of more screen time. First of all, Rose EASILY could have been on the first mission with Finn, Poe and Chewie on the Falcon. Instead of Klaud, who literally has NO HANDS, be the mechanic on the Falcon, this easily could have been Rose.

Another easy fix would have been to get rid of Dominic Monaghan’s character and give some of that extra dialogue to either Rose and/or Billie Lourd’s character. I think there could have been a nice scene between Rose and Rey as they repair the Falcon together. Rose could have had a brief conversation with Finn regarding his desire to save the kidnapped children and/or the other stormtroopers. If Rose stayed back at the base, I think it would be nice for her to communicate back and forth with the gang a bit more often. Or maybe we could cut back to Rose once or twice to see her working on the device Poe will use to broadcast his message to the galaxy.

Honestly, though I think Rose could have easily gone with the gang on their mission. Rose could’ve stayed with the Falcon on Pasana and gotten captured, then later she could be rescued alongside Chewie. On Kef Bir, she could have helped try to repair the Falcon while Rey went ahead to the Death Star ruins. Having Rose tag along wouldn’t have really overcrowded the main plot, or taken away from the “trio” that Abrams and Terrio were desperately trying to focus on.

Hux:
I wasn’t sure what to do about Hux when I started writing this, but the ideas started formulating as I went along. I think the first scene we could get of Hux is him ordering the execution of a would-be Stormtrooper deserter in one of the Star Destroyer hangars. Or perhaps this trooper was the spy that helped the Resistance. Without Phasma to control the troops, Hux’s methods of control have become more desperate. Despite the Stormtroopers all wearing masks, we get the feeling the soldiers seem uncomfortable during this execution. The spy/deserter’s last words could be something like, “FN-218–”

Regarding Hux’s relationship to Pryde, I actually think the roles should be reversed. Pryde should be rather skeptical of trusting this Sith cult, whereas Hux would gladly accept a new armada, and he also revels in the fact the Kylo Ren might have to answer to a new master.

When Finn and Poe are about to be killed aboard the Star Destroyer, instead of Hux being the one to save them, Finn starts trying to talk to the stormtroopers, and it is one of the stormtroopers that has a change of heart then saves them/lets them go. Maybe Finn and this trooper could share a few words before they part ways. After Kylo turns, instead of seeing Pryde kill Hux, Hux kills Pryde and begins taking control of the First Order. We see Hux contact the Emperor and pledges allegiance to him in return to become the new Supreme Leader of his forces.

Hux is on the bridge of the main Star Destroyer during the final battle, and during this battle we see the stormtrooper that Finn spoke to watch from view screens as Finn, Jannah, and the other rogue stormtroopers fight and die to stop the First Order. Seeing that they are losing, the stormtrooper decides to rally the other stormtroopers and storm the bridge of the Star Destroyer. Just as Finn and Jannah as are about to die, the rebelling stormtroopers finally board the bridge and kill Hux, then deactivate the transmitter. Since the stormtroopers are Hux’s army, I think it is appropriate that it is his army that is his downfall. And this might be another nice way to tie up Finn’s arc as well.

Okay, that’s all I got for now. I’ll touch on Rey, Kylo/Ben, Luke, Leia and the Emperor in another post.

Post
#1325809
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

This was my initial thought as well right after I saw the movie. The Mustafar thing feels so fast, that it might be better to just say Kylo found one Wayfinder before the movie started, and we start by panning down to that red nebula.

The way it is now, the Mustafar scene just feels incomplete. We transition to the next planet before we even know where we are, and it breaks the rule of following the ship to the first scene. We just get the planet establishing shot and then hard cut to the planet surface.

Post
#1325707
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

I recall that the commentary for TFA wasn’t released until the 3D copy came out, right? So it is possible a commentary could come later.

I’m still curious if there really will be no deleted scenes, but honestly it would be nice to just extend the film some more, the TFA deleted scenes didn’t really add much of anything at all. The biggest thing might be the brief conversation between Kor Sella and Leia. It definitely helps flesh out the political situation slightly, but it didn’t make or break the film. I have a feeling that even if we got deleted scenes for TROS, they probably wouldn’t have added as much to whatever we hoped they would.

It’s funny that you guys are talking about rewrites. I had been thinking the same thing, especially the other day when we were talking about Kylo’s redemption arc in one of the discussion threads.

Post
#1325608
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Hahaha, that will be the closing title card.

I’ve said this before but I think a theme for Episode IX that you could run with is this idea of “healing wounds” whether it be physical or metaphorical. Mustafar is shown to be healing, apparently. So seeing flowers grow on Tatooine might play into that idea that the world will heal and grow now that this great evil has been destroyed and some kind of balance has been found.

We also see a wilted flower in Rey’s home at the beginning of her journey, so it would be a nice parallel to see a blooming flower in her “new home” at the end, even though I don’t think Rey will be staying there.

There were shrubs and house plants around the homestead in IV and II, but you don’t see anything like that in IX.

Post
#1325452
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

StarkillerAG said:

RogueLeader said:

If JediPaxis’ leaked plot descriptions are anything to go off of, I think when Kylo/FO and the Resistance find out Palpatine is alive did change somewhat.

I don’t think Kylo didn’t exactly know what he would find in the Unknown Regions originally. Apparently the info Poe and Finn get from the spy is that Kylo is searching for something in the Unknown Regions, not that Palpatine is alive and has a fleet of warships laying in wait. Leia has a contact that might have a lead regarding the Unknown Regions, and she sends them to Pasana.

It is possible this was not accurate, but I can totally see them deciding to make it clear from the beginning that Palpatine is back in order to make the goals of the characters clearer, and to raise the stakes for the Resistance early on.

I don’t subscribe to the conspiracy theories, but I can totally see the function of the Oracle becoming redundant or contradictory if Act I was restructured a bit. I think Pablo even mentioned on his twitter that Act I received the most changes during reshoots.

Okay, that does make sense. I assumed that the “reshoots” in JediPaxis’ plot summary were just the leakers receiving more accurate info, but it would make sense if Palpatine wasn’t revealed until the end of the first act. Which just makes me want the deleted scenes more, so a fan edit can partially revert the movie to an earlier version, like Hal did in his edit of ROTS.

You’re right, when I went back and read them I had to be careful about what was information that was changed due to story changes/reshoots, and what was simply things that were clarified to him rather than actual story changes. He typically would elaborate a little if things were rewrite related, which he does somewhat for this plot point.

His leaks occasionally are light on details, but you can’t always assume the omission of those details and later elaboration means those were reshoot changes.

I’ll be thankful once we actually have the film in the deleted scenes are in our hands, so we know what we actually have to work with. But knowing how it was originally mapped out might give us a better idea for how the film was originally paced, and the steps editors can take if they wanted to also slow the pace down or recreate a similar structure from earlier cuts of the film.

Even beyond an editing perspective, I find the whole development process really interesting. The leaked shooting script(?) for TFA was also rather interesting since it hinted at an alternate opening, more flashbacks, the Resistance Warhammer/Sledgehammer ship, etc.
I was honestly expecting them to reimplement Leia’s lines regarding the Warhammer for a ship that might’ve played a role in the final battle, but it possible it was never shot anyway.

Maybe we will get more insight regarding changes in the commentary, since Abrams touched on reshoot changes somewhat in the TFA commentary.

Post
#1325436
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

If JediPaxis’ leaked plot descriptions are anything to go off of, I think when Kylo/FO and the Resistance find out Palpatine is alive did change somewhat.

I don’t think Kylo didn’t exactly know what he would find in the Unknown Regions originally. Apparently the info Poe and Finn get from the spy is that Kylo is searching for something in the Unknown Regions, not that Palpatine is alive and has a fleet of warships laying in wait. Leia has a contact that might have a lead regarding the Unknown Regions, and she sends them to Pasana.

It is possible this was not accurate, but I can totally see them deciding to make it clear from the beginning that Palpatine is back in order to make the goals of the characters clearer, and to raise the stakes for the Resistance early on.

I don’t subscribe to the conspiracy theories, but I can totally see the function of the Oracle becoming redundant or contradictory if Act I was restructured a bit. I think Pablo even mentioned on his twitter that Act I received the most changes during reshoots.

Post
#1325410
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Also, from what I recall the interaction between Hux and Pryde on Mustafar was filmed, so if we get that whole conversation and Pryde mentions the transmission, it does add more variables to play with.

There’s just a lot to speculate on that might prove meaningless depending on which deleted scenes, if any, we’ll actually get.

Post
#1325402
Topic
Star Wars: <strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> Redux Ideas thread
Time

Well if we even get this deleted scene, I don’t think it would be out of the question to redub the oracle if we felt it could be useful to provide some alternate dialogue. Honestly it is rather boring and straightforward in this version. It doesn’t do anything, and I’m not sure why it was ever referred to as ‘Oracle’. Perhaps it originally had a different purpose. If anything, it should be giving Kylo a prophecy based off that name. Perhaps regarding the dyad?

Post
#1325059
Topic
Star Wars Episode IX (was) to be directed by Colin Trevorrow - DUEL OF THE FATES RIP
Time

StarkillerAG said:

I understand why some people wanted Kylo to be redeemed in the first act, but in my opinion it wouldn’t really work. Redemption in Star Wars has always been more of a spiritual affair. Watching Kylo act all chummy with the new trio would be really jarring for me, considering all the horrible things Kylo did. In my opinion the only endings that would work for Kylo are either becoming an exiled renegade fighting for justice, or dying in a heroic sacrifice. Trevorrow choosing to go with the latter is completely fine in my book.

I get that, and I think Colin’s direction is valid, but I don’t think it is necessarily the only way it could’ve worked. In this scenario I don’t really picture them being chummy at all at the beginning. Finn and Poe would obviously hate him, and Ben/Kylo wouldn’t like them in return. But it would be interesting to watch them find common ground and work together, and then in the end make amends.
And think about it, some of the best character interactions are when are main characters are fighting with each other, think of Han, Luke and Leia escaping the Death Star. I could definitely see those kind of interactions between them and that type of film. It could’ve been really fun and different from what we’ve gotten before!

I just think the tension between the gang that Ben’s inclusion would’ve created could’ve put the audience on the edge of their seats, not knowing what to expect. It would’ve been new territory.

Post
#1325054
Topic
Star Wars Episode IX (was) to be directed by Colin Trevorrow - DUEL OF THE FATES RIP
Time

Huh, that is another good point I hadn’t really considered. Then Poe could better fit into the role of Leader as he was meant to be, more wise and mature. I think Leia could have died earlier in the film, possibly whenever Kylo is almost killed/left for dead by Hux and the Knights of Ren.

Either way, Leia’s death should’ve propelled Poe into a stronger leadership role than what we really saw. I’ve said this before, but I think you could’ve kept the whole plot about sending a message throughout the galaxy as Colin had it set up, but imagine if the message was supposed to be from Leia, but after she dies, Poe thinks all is lost and doubts his own abilities, but in the end he ends up being the one to send that message. I think seeing Poe starting out as that hotshot pilot from the beginning of TFA, to a leader calling on the galaxy to take a stand against the First Order, would’ve been a great arc for him.

Post
#1325052
Topic
Star Wars Episode IX (was) to be directed by Colin Trevorrow - DUEL OF THE FATES RIP
Time

Broom Kid said:

But then again - if they flip him at the end of the 1st act, her falling for him FOR REAL suddenly becomes a lot more possible, too.

I totally get all of your points, Broom Kid. I think they’re really fair. This is why I think, like you said, that seeing Rey and the real Ben interact in a non-confrontational way would’ve allowed for that romance to take hold for audiences who weren’t really sold on it (or even saw it) in the last two films.

I imagine them starting to work together before they get to the Death Star (or the Death Star equivalent), and their fight could’ve related to some tension that still remained between them. It would’ve been very similar to how couples in romances tend to have a falling out halfway through the movie, only to get together by the end of the film.

Post
#1325051
Topic
Star Wars Episode IX (was) to be directed by Colin Trevorrow - DUEL OF THE FATES RIP
Time

Broom Kid said:

The character dynamics of THAT movie are drastically different (and kind of exciting) more-so than the sort of “we know he’s going to turn good by the end here” vibe that TROS and DOTF both had. The idea that the rest of the trio HAVE to interact with him now would be really, really interesting to see play out.

This is a big reason why I like this idea! A movie where Kylo/Ben is having to interact with Rey, Poe, Finn, etc. is entirely different from their interactions in the last two films. In TROS, the interactions between Rey and Kylo don’t feel any different from the last two films. It definitely would have provided plenty of material for interesting scenes that could deal with forgiveness and atonement in a way that Vader’s redemption never did, setting TROS more apart form ROTJ.

Like you said, I feel like most people went into this film expecting Kylo to be redeemed, so why not do it early on, play around with character interactions we would never get otherwise, and then maybe Rey actually turning to the dark side and then Ben saving her at the end be the big “hurray” moment. After their fight, Ben could have been the one to get the pep talk from Luke, and they could’ve made amends. I’m not trying to take away from Rey’s story, but I think Rey and Ben could’ve been dual-protagonists whose stories reflected each other, then finally coalesce in the final act. Rey’s story could’ve been similar to Anakin’s, who slowly is seduced with the promise of saving the one’s he cares about from dying. The weight of being the galaxy’s savior, of being the last Jedi, could be weighing heavily on her throughout the film, which leads her down the dark path starting around the midpoint or end of act 2, reflecting Ben’s turn at the end of Act 1.