RogueLeader

MR, you didn’t know Hal did prequel edits?

I mean, I could make a walker and a Kylo puppet, film a few different elements, and then let people decide whatever they want to use.

A good thing about having a Kylo puppet, is that Rey will see the puppet and make her think of Kylo right before they have another Force bond.

I like the sound of this idea! To be honest I’m having trouble totally envisioning what you are trying to describe, though. Maybe you could potentially get the ball running with a thread for March? Maybe you can pick a good place to start the conversation.

Chase Adams said:

RogueLeader said:

Another alternative for the puppets, it would be funny if there was a puppet Kylo that took a swing at puppet Luke, but the puppet went below stage, then popped back up behind Kylo. Then we see kids laughing.

Basically, we see Luke taking the wind out of the First Order’s sails, making the next generation less afraid of the First Order. And since the First Order rules by fear, then their authority will fall apart. I think it all ties back to the themes we’re trying to hit pretty well.

I love this! 😄 RogueLeader, how do you come up with your ideas? 😉

I’ve just put way, way too much thought into Star Wars…

But like I said, I could make some puppets. So if MR gets a clean plate completed, filming some puppets wouldn’t be a problem. I kind of have an idea of how to design the Luke/Kylo puppets.

I don’t think you would have to cut those lines. He was still running spice even if he was undercover.

Another alternative for the puppets, it would be funny if there was a puppet Kylo that took a swing at puppet Luke, but the puppet went below stage, then popped back up behind Kylo. Then we see kids laughing.

Basically, we see Luke taking the wind out of the First Order’s sails, making the next generation less afraid of the First Order. And since the First Order rules by fear, then their authority will fall apart. I think it all ties back to the themes we’re trying to hit pretty well.

Might be too much work, but since Zorri wears a mask the whole time, we could redub her to fit whatever new narrative we wanted. For example, we could have her say Poe was just working as a spice runner undercover for the Republic, which is why Zorri is so pissed off at Poe (and would help alleviate some of the stereotype issues of making the Latino character a former drug runner.)

When Poe asks how long Kijimi has been like this, she could say not long after Crait or Skywalker. And when Poe starts getting down in the dumps about people losing hope, Zorri could tell him that these people have actually regained hope and are resisting.

And I don’t think the mask has to be perfect MR. Once we have puppets there, it’ll probably distract from any imperfections. Plus, it’s such a short shot anyway.

For the puppet thing, I think the simplest action would be for the fire to fly from the AT-AT, and the Luke reflects it back at the walker, knocking the whole walker away. This action makes the kids laugh. Since the story is being passed along word-of-mouth, the facts could be embellished.

Or the fire just floats in between them and puppet Luke dances around mockingly. I don’t know if a puppet brushing his shoulder would be feasible or clear to understand.

It is a very very brief shot. Not even two full seconds I don’t think. So it shouldn’t be too complicated.

I know Chase said he could film it, but I think I could make the puppets and film this too, if someone could just make a clean plate to put it on.

And speaking of Luke’s legend sparking hope in the galaxy, I wonder if you could somehow make it clearer that people of Kijimi are revolting against the First Order. The patrols, stormtroopers going door-to-door questioning people, the distant explosions later on during Poe and Zorri’s convo. Though that might contradict Poe’s whole speech about people giving up.

TestingOutTheTest said:

Neerb said:

Uh… two is better than one? I guess?

TestingOutTheTest suggested keeping the “lifeforce of your bond” thing in, which sounds just as handwavy as a Dyad without distracting us with proper nouns. If Palpatine was Snoke, then Snoke giving them a bond could be a long-game setup (in story payoff, not literal planning) for Palpatine to drink that bond up. Would just need to lessen/cut out Palp’s surprise when it happens, along with Kylo saying in the hangar that Palps doesn’t know.

How many times do I have to say this? Snoke and Palpatine aren’t the same individual; yes, Snoke listens to Palpatine, but it isn’t like he is some sort of VR avatar Palpatine controls.

Regardless of this apparent fact, the text of the film makes this ambiguous. When Palpatine tells Kylo that he has been every voice in his head, and demonstrates this by literally using Snoke’s voice, it makes Snoke’s status as an independent individual unclear to the audience. Sure, maybe Snoke was his own person, but Palpatine also occasionally spoke in Kylo’s head using Snoke’s voice, but that is left up for the audience to interpret, and I guarantee not everyone came out of that film with the same interpretation (which I think this thread demonstrates well enough).

The movie leaves a lot for the audience to figure out, though, and if I have to go find external resources to have that question answered, or have some stranger on the internet lecture me for not understanding it, then I consider that the filmmakers’ failure for not being able to communicate their intention to the audience clearly. Maybe they wanted to leave it ambiguous to maintain a little mystery, but you seem adamant that there are hard answers to all of these questions. But if I had to guess, the filmmakers were honestly not sure what the answer was themselves, and left it ambiguous so someone else could answer it, or let the audience pick whichever interpretation they preferred.

Maybe I’m just not smart enough to understand the nuanced storytelling that is The Rise of Skywalker.

Ooo, I’d like to hear more about this over on the script writing threads.

Cool to here! I was wondering if you could pull anything of interest from that version of the script as well. Maybe you’re thinking this, but I think it would be interesting if Jannah and the other stormtroopers didn’t have names when we first meet them. They still go by their callsigns. Or, maybe they picked names because they heard about “Finn the Stormtrooper”.

I kind of wish some nuance regarding the Jedi that Trevorrow tried to present was still present in what we got. Like, when Rey finally speaks to Luke on Ahch-To, he can tell her the Jedi were wrong about fear and attachments. Jedi can’t deny fear, they must face it. And attachments aren’t a weakness, but a strength. I don’t know, something that shows how Rey (and by extension, Luke) will correct the flaws of the old Jedi Order. But that might be outside your objectives.

Regarding the medallion shot, I feel like the placement isn’t really the best spot. In the insert shot she is still, but then in the next shot she is already beginning to lay down. I feel like the shot would fit in better if it was placed with the first shot of Leia, where she is sitting still.

I have to say, I respect your constant adherence to a Watsonian mindset.

I think that transition is definitely suitable. And like you said, the issues with the transition lie with the nature of the films themselves.

Speaking as someone who isn’t overly familiar with the book or the films, there is a bit of awkwardness (and a little bit of humor) in the fact that the first half ends very optimistically, and Bilbo saying, “I do believe the worse is behind us”, and the second half beginning in the middle of a new dire situation. In a different version of this film, I could imagine a scenario where Bilbo says that line, then hard cutting to him hiding behind some rocks as he hears animal howling. It would be pretty funny moment if it were only cut different.

But honestly, the way the scene ends, it really makes you feel like they got away from the orcs and wargs. It feels like that threat is way behind them, but then the orcs are right on their tail again, without any indication when or how the orcs caught up with them.

You might not be looking for any suggestions on the transition (because honestly, it really is fine the way it is), but I think it would be interesting if after it cut to black, there was a bit more pause before we fade back into the film, and during the black screen we heard the distant howl of a wolf/warg, or the howling of a pack of wolves/wargs, to indicate to the audience that the threat is still near, and then when we fade back in we see that the wargs are back on their tail. It could prepare the audience to expect that our heroes will be in danger once again.

Anyway, might be worth playing around with just to see how it feels. But again, it’s not totally necessary.

EDIT: Also wanted to say that I’ve been enjoying your videos of you actually working on the scenes and explaining some of your changes. They’re really insightful!

While it is a fan edit, and we could put more warnings on the edit just in case, apparently red and blue flashing can put people more at risk of epileptic seizures.

I’ve never had one, but I even felt like I was on the verge on getting sick when I watched the movie in theaters. I bet this red color scheme would’ve been really intense to see on a big screen.

Despite my practical/safety gripes, I do like the red and blue color scheme. It makes me think of some of the posters for the film that had a striking red/blue scheme.

Okay, yeah, I see what you’re getting at. I suppose it would be interesting to see any alternative than the story ending at practically the same place it started, in terms of Rey in TROS ending in basically the same place Luke ended in ROTJ. Rey doesn’t end the film with any newfound knowledge that sets her apart from the past Jedi, like Trevorrow’s Duel of the Fates script at least attempted to do. Since the film’s climax has Palpatine and Rey both reiterate their identities as Sith and Jedi, there is some interesting finality in the fact that they both destroy each other, essentially ending a feud the lasted millennium.

With Ben/Kylo, you have a character who renounced both the Jedi and the Sith, and although he is no longer Supreme Leader, he didn’t totally flip 180 and become good again either. Maybe more along the lines of a Byronic hero or anti-hero at this point, because at the very least, he may ensure that future generations don’t make the same mistakes that the Jedi, the Sith, and himself made.

If an edit cut Palpatine from the film, I think keeping Rey and Kylo alive would make sense. But since yours keeps Palpatine for reasons I agree with (primarily because it is difficult to keep a 2-hour runtime, which I also agree is essential to a Star Wars film), I think having Rey die could allow the film to end in a less predictable way.

Do you have any ideas for how you’ll have Kylo be on Tatooine at the end of the film?

I was looking forward to seeing your post about your ideas regarding TROS!

To be honest, I’m really surprised that you’re killing Rey. With how much you have been pushing this idea of portraying balance in a different way, I felt the obvious way to do that would be to have both Rey and Ben live, so they can work together to forge a new path. I personally feel like the way the story ends would be really ambiguous for most audiences to actually be satisfied with, especially if you paint Kylo as not really being redeemed.

But as far as I’m aware there isn’t a version where Rey dies, so it might be interesting to see how that version would turn out.

She most recently made a tweet comparing being a Republican in Biden’s America to being a Jew during the Holocaust. She’s apparently also tweeted transphobic statements, and made tweets mocking COVID vaccines and mail-in voting, and liked tweets that were supportive of the Capitol riot. I think some things are certainly more egregious than others, but I think the Nazi tweet definitely crossed the line for her employers.

True. The First Order could’ve launched an attack on the New Republic without necessarily defeating them overnight. Too bad we can’t have any sequences of battles between the two factions.

I think that’s a good idea. In this version of events, Starkiller Base isn’t destroyed, so it could still work as a base of operations for the First Order during TROS.

I wrote something up awhile back and making this change across the films. Obviously a benefit would be that it might make the trilogy feel less like a retread of the OT. The downside would be the stakes might not be as high if the capital isn’t destroyed and the Republic isn’t in tatters and eventually conquered.

After Luke’s disappearance in TFA, you could establish that the New Republic and the First Order (a reunified Imperial remnant) have a truce, or peace treaty, to prevent another full-scale war. The First Order has no plans to conquer the Republic in this film. Their only goal is to find and destroy Luke Skywalker and the Jedi.

While Snoke isn’t a Sith, he could be referred to as a Sith cultist, an acolyte of the Emperor, a former Inquisitor, whatever. The Sith are gone, but Snoke wants to restore them.

Leia clearly objects to their goals, but the New Republic has a treaty to uphold and won’t interfere. So, Leia forms a Resistance cell within First Order space to sabotage the First Order and keep them from finding Luke first. The First Order does not destroy Hosnian Prime in this film. Instead, the third act is about Han and Finn acquiring the second half of the map from Starkiller Base (and rescuing Rey).

Even though the dynamics of the Resistance and First Order are similar to the Rebels and the Empire, this feud only exists in one half of the galaxy, and the New Republic still exists off-screen in the other half. While this might seem like a pointless change since they remain off-screen, removing the Starkiller super weapon, and the Republic’s destruction, allows the story to focus on this quest to find Luke and bring back the Jedi, differentiating it from A New Hope.

The Last Jedi would have the least amount of changes, structurally. But any reference to the Republic being destroyed, or the First Order taking over the galaxy within weeks, is removed. A reason for why the Resistance fleet doesn’t just escape to Republic space may need to be created. Perhaps the Supremacy is generating a gravity well, or we could add an interdictor to the fleet. Perhaps this could be a place for more radical ideas for the B-plot. When Leia refers to her “allies”, maybe she could be more explicitly referring to the Republic. Maybe they get a transmission from the Republic on Crait specifically saying they cannot intervene.

After Kylo Ren becomes Supreme Leader in TROS, this is when he finally enacts their plan to try and take over the galaxy. He is the main antagonist of this film, because Palpatine has not returned.

Perhaps finding Exegol was always Snoke’s goal after destroying Luke, and Kylo just followed through with it. Exegol could be established as where the secrets of the Sith lay hidden, and where Sidious left a lost fleet for his potential successor.

Once the Resistance gets this information, they share it with the Republic in hopes they’ll help them out. And sure enough, it is the entire New Republic armada that shows up at the end of the film to the end the war before it begins.

During the battle, Kylo Ren and Rey have their duel on the ruins of the Death Star. After their fight, Kylo Ren turns, and he orders the rest of the First Order to surrender, ending the war once and for all.

I totally missed your previous suggestions for this concept. It’s definitely most radical version of events.

I wasn’t sure how you were going to establish the fact that Jyn may know where Galen is (but never wanted to look for him), but the idea that she overheard them speaking about Eadu as a child is a clever idea.

I definitely think a work print would need to be made to see how well this concept can be executed. Starting with the weakest part, which is arguably Eadu, and building up from there, could be pretty interesting.

sidshady12 said:

Regardless, progress is good - Eric still doing some awesome digital fixes & I need to do a ‘full’ rewatch to double check some of the changes I’ve discussed in this thread, then I’ll be good to go for another release.

Just gotta make sure it’s as perfect as it can be. I have a hunch this will be the last update for a while, similar to what happened in mid 2020, I released & then let it sit for a few months. And then we’ll see, maybe I’ll be happy with this latest release in the long run (months from now), hopefully, but you never know.

Awesome! I’m really big fan of what you’ve done here. Once the next update is out, I’d be happy to sit down and watch it again and make note of anything that might stick out as fan edit-y (if you’re still wanting feedback). I think what you have now is really, really solid, and I guess the goal now is to make sure it is as polished as possible.

In the version of the scene jarbear has been sharing, I originally had the scene order as: Jump from Jedha, Krennic & Tarkin over Jedha, Jyn rallies team, Yavin receiving update, U-Wing recieving orders, Krennic leaving.

If that change does get implemented, I would consider restructuring the conversation to go something like this. As that version has it, Bodhi is unprompted when he asks Jyn if she is Galen’s daughter. This version of the conversation has him ask after she refers to Galen as her father.

Scene starts on Jyn, with eyes closed, processing what just happened. We hear Cassian say “Set course for Yavin IV” in the background.

Chirrut: Baze, tell me. All of it? The whole city? Tell me.

Baze: All of it.

Baze gives Bodhi a dirty look. Bodhi, defeated, slumps his head down and removes his goggles.

Jyn: My father’s message, I’ve seen it.

Cassian looks over at Jyn.

Jyn: They call it the Death Star. But they have no idea, there’s a way to defeat it.

Bodhi: So you’re Galen’s daughter?

Jyn: You know him?

Bodhi: I’m Bodhi, the pilot.

Jyn: You brought the message?

Bodhi: Yes. Your father, he said I could get right by myself.

Jyn stares intensely at Bodhi.

Bodhi: He said I could make it right… if I was brave enough… to listen to what was in my heart.

Cassian walks closer to Bodhi as he speaks.

Bodhi: Do something about it.

Jyn stands.

Jyn: [to Cassian] You’re wrong about my father!

Then the conversation continues however you want. I personally would prefer cutting the dialogue between Jyn and Baze referring to what her father did as “rigging a trap inside of it”, but that may cut too much from the scene, especially since this version of the scene also cuts Baze’s line “Seems pretty late to me”. If you wanted to keep that line, you could do this:

Bodhi: Guess it was too late.

Jyn: It wasn’t too late.

Baze: Seems pretty late to me.

Jyn: [OF] No.

Bodhi looks at Jyn as she stands up.

Jyn: [to Cassian] You’re wrong about my father!

But I prefer the pacing of the first version, personally.

In the version jarbear posted, I also had changed Jyn’s line from, “Then we’ll find him and bring him back, and he can tell them himself” to “Then we’ll bring him back, and he can tell them himself”, but I think this trim was unnecessary in retrospect, especially if you establish that Cassian has told K2 to go back to Yavin IV. Plus, it is an awkward cut, I think.

I also like jarbear’s idea to cut Cassian’s line “I’ve already done that.”

I spliced Cassian line “Set course for Eadu” that he says after contacting with Alliance, and a line Cassian says mentioning Yavin IV after they escape Eadu.

When I made this scene, I originally made it with the intention that they accomplished their mission, securing the pilot, which is why Cassian is returning to base. Jyn has to convince Cassian to now go after her father, since Bodhi knows where he is.

I suppose this could still work, but the whole purpose of getting the pilot was to find out from him where her father was, so I don’t know if Cassian returning to base without even speaking with Bodhi makes sense. I guess you could argue that he was going to take Bodhi back to base for questioning, but Jyn pressed Cassian to go ahead and get her father now.

This was also a scene I wanted to restructure a bit, and reshuffle the dialogue. I think there is a way to make the dialogue in this scene flow much better than how I had it in general, but I also wanted to make this scene more about Jyn wanting to rescue her father, rather than becoming fully committed to the cause.