RogueLeader

My two cents on the Finn Force-sensitivity subplot:

Personally, my biggest issue with it is that we don’t really get any indication that anyone else knows that Finn is force-sensitive. Him sensing the control tower thing at the end is probably his biggest use of the Force, but honestly, Finn’s general First Order knowledge could’ve been easily been the reason he figured that out. We don’t even get an opportunity for Rey or Poe to even acknowledge his Force-sensitivity, or a hint that Finn will be Rey’s first student.

I feel like you could recontextualize the “I never told you” stuff to imply that Finn has something he never told Poe. And then Poe could give that flirty look to Finn at the end of the film, rather than Zori, implying that he has known about Finn’s feelings for him. It is still very thin, but at least there is some kind of acknowledgement of this subplot at the end of the film, unlike Finn’s force-sensitivity stuff.

With that being said, I feel like the Finn force-sensitivity thing is something Hal is fine with and would rather keep in Ascendant. It would be cool if we could come up with some better payoff at the end, that implied Rey knows and will teach Finn the ways of the Force. Since we’ve moved the holochess scene to the end, maybe we could give Finn a Padawan braid? Lol. I feel like Finn could pull that look off.

Hal 9000 said:

After Rey shoots lightning and we close up on her hand, a gouge on her wrist reveals wires and circuits underneath.

Somewhere, Alan Dean Foster feels an inexplicable surge of validation.

Hahaha, I literally did the same thing on another thread today.

Yes, that is it!

Thanks for the comments! I definitely think the trick is figuring out the order of scenes, as well as where to cut between them exactly. I think the music can make this a bit of a challenge.

I do agree that it would be nice to see a new regrade for the film. I think using Ady’s would work as a great base. I also feel like the flatness is partly due to the cinematography of the film. A lot of the shots, imo, feel a lot more static and less ‘inspired’ than what we saw in ANH or ESB. Unfortunately I don’t think there is much that can be done about that, besides what Ady is doing, and replacing some matte backgrounds with model work.

I would also like to possibly make a “downgraded” version of the film, sort of like Puggo’s versions of the OT. If the entire film was real dirty and grainy, you could incorporate a lot of the deleted scenes without them feeling out of place. But maybe I’d save that for a more radical Revenge of the Jedi edit.

I like that. Makes it clear that it’s a different ship.

My answer would be: Whatever is easiest to change!

I mean yeah, they never call it a prototype or one-of-a-kind in the movie, so you definitely don’t have to change it unless someone just really wanted to.

I don’t know, I think it’s somewhere on this thread or the Rise of Skywalker edit thread.

I like the idea of the red stripes being recolored to gold. That would look cool and be easier than totally replacing it.

TestingOutTheTest said:

Apparently this is what Jedha looks like after that specific Death Star scene in canon. For referencing purposes 😉

Someone made a pretty cool concept for Pasaana as Jedha. Is not as drastic as that depiction, but I think it worked well! It was basically just the planet with a giant crack across the surface that exposes the mantle. I also think an asteroid field of debris orbiting the planet could be added. Which would fit well with the movie, since we see the gang hiding in an asteroid field immediately after they leave Pasaana’s surface.

Thanks for dropping by Shamook! I’d be curious to hear about other deep fakes you would like to do or have been thinking about sometime. We always could be a sounding board for some of your thoughts/ideas.

Hal 9000 said:

Add the remains of Rey’s parents to Ochi’s ship as it is boarded by the heroes on Pasaana.

Fuck, that’s metal.

Yeah, team Jedha all the way!

The thing is, we can’t change the fact it’s another desert planet, and I feel like drastic changes require too much vfx work or wouldn’t be really believable anyway. So, we could at least add more flavor to an existing desert planet rather than it being a brand new one that almost looks just like another desert planet.

Also, it makes sense that a Jedi hunter like Ochi would go to a world like Jedha. Why would he go to Pasaana, of all places? It seems like nothing is there. Even the Aki-Aki feel more like visiting pilgrims than natives (which fits well with Jedha, since it was also called the Pilgrim Moon).

It was also known as the Cold Moon, although I don’t know how the Death Star test would’ve affected its overall climate. It could’ve triggered a nuclear winter. So, perhaps if you could add slight hints of snowfall if you really wanted to make it stand out from other desert planets. But the first thing I would try and do would be to regrade the Pasaana sequence to match Jedha in Rogue One as much as possible.

It also makes sense for their to be random First Order patrols on a world like Jedha. I mean, was Pasaana really significant enough for their to be any there?

This might be taking things too far, but since Jedha was mine by the Empire in the past for its kyber crystals, what if after the serpent Rey heals slithers away, while Rey is looking down, she sees a small yellow kyber crystal sticking out of the sand? Not sure how exactly you could create the shot, but it might be a nice way to set up her yellow lightsaber at the end of the movie.

Honestly, the day-to-night changes for Ahch-To is one of the more impressive changes so far in this edit to me. I’ve never seen just a really impressive day-to-night regrade that didn’t feel like they just threw a blue filter over it, but this feels really authentic.

Just for resource-sake, is there an unedited version of this scene with this regrade applied?

EddieDean said:

Rogue Leader, those are all good ideas. I like Leia’s politics angle for the Ewoks. Is it worth considering subtitles for the Ewoks to help sell that concept?

Hmm, I think subtitles could work if they aren’t overused. Just whenever they were necessary. I wonder at which points in the movie subtitles could be used to make this idea work. Also, I feel like Ewok chieftain could be subtitled, but Wicket shouldn’t be.

My favourite edit of ROTJ, which I don’t think is available any more and I’ve forgotten the name of, also restructured the ending.

I remember that edit! Was it the first Spence edit?

The very first rough edit I ever did was of ROTJ, and instead of doing that, I restructured the ending to where what Luke was doing tied in more with what the Rebels were doing.

I restructured the scenes this way:

• Preceding scenes show the Rebels at their lowest point. Ewoks dying, Rebel pilots dying.
• Leia gets shot (the stormtroopers may or may not tell them to freeze before cutting away).
• Luke, who is hiding from Vader, senses Leia in pain and in danger. This is why Vader is able to sense Luke’s thoughts about Leia. Vader threatens to turn Leia, and then Luke goes ham.
• When Luke rejects the Emperor, and the dark side, this is when things begin to turn around for our heroes.
• We cut back to Han and Leia, and Leia pulls her gun and shoots the two stormtroopers. They’re able to trick their way into the bunker and begin setting charges.
• The Emperor starts zapping Luke until Vader throws him down a well.
• Han blows up the bunker, and Lando and others start flying through the Death Star. Rebels blow up Super Star Destroyer.
• Luke and Vader have father-son bonding time.
• Lando and Wedge blow up reactor, begin flying out. Like escapes, then rebel pilots and Lando escape.

This restructuring felt similar to build-up/climax of the ring being destroyed in Return of the King. Even though they are sort of disconnected, the battle outside the gate is at its lowest point (Gandalf seeing the Ring-Wraiths flying back toward Mount Doom, and Aragorn almost being killed by a troll) when the quest to destroy the ring is at its lowest (Frodo refusing to destroy it, and fighting for it with Gollum).

After the Ring is destroyed, we are celebrating as the audience, but we are also still worried if Sam and Frodo will be able to escape Mount Doom alive.

So, the Emperor dying and the bunker being destroyed happen almost simultaneously, but then Lando trying to destroy the Death Star happens as we watch and see if Luke will be able to escape in time.

I think back when I made it, I had trouble getting the scenes to flow together nicely because of how the score is, but I wasn’t working with all five channels. So if I went back I probably could make the musical transitions flow better.

I love the new stuff with 3PO and the bowcaster! I see what you were saying about how BB-8 gets 3PO to shoot. I wonder if BB-8 could zap 3PO’s leg or something, which could make his finger squeeze the trigger.

I like your breakdown of the hangar scene.

Just to get your wheels turning, here is a version of that scene I did that doesn’t just drastically change the major points of the conversation:

Kylo Ren: Rey, I know the rest of your story.

Rey: Tell me.

Kylo: He saw what you would become. You won’t just have power, you’ll have his power. You… will kill Palpatine, and take the throne.

Rey is shocked.

Kylo: I feel the pull to the light. And you, the darkness. What Palpatine doesn’t know is that we’re a Dyad in the Force, Rey. Two that are one. Together, nothing will stand in our way. You know what you need to do. You know.

Rey: I do.

Luckily for you, you’re not beholden to what Kylo Ren dialogue exists out there, so you could potentially make something more interesting. One good thing about this limitation, though, is that the dialogue still feels genuine to something Kylo would really say.

I’ve gotten the materials to make the puppets, but I honestly kind of wanted to see what snooker comes up with first!

Haha, I should’ve said chimed in about that earlier too. I was like, “cat disguise”? Yeah, Ventress sneaks in, kills him and takes his seat. But I can see how that would be confusing so I’d understand why you would change that.

No, I don’t think you are. How you handle it really does depend on how you handle Rey’s parents in the story. I mean, you probably could not change the two ships and get away with it, just say their similar ship models, but I think differentiating them or removing one entirely helps to avoid any confusion.

And the thing is, different Rey Nobody edits are going to handle it differently. I don’t think a definitive Rey Nobody edit is being done necessarily.

Going from that angle, I would definitely consider leaning into what apparently was an earlier cut that emphasized Palpatine being an old man on his death bed.

Was thinking about more edit ideas for ROTJ. For a hypothetical edit where you restructured Han’s rescue so Leia’s rescue attempt before the droids show up, how would you handle the continuity of Leia not being there when the droids arrive, and also 3PO already being there when Boushh/Leia shows up? I attempted to do this in my very first edit (which was ROTJ), but I remember having to awkwardly edit/crop around 3PO, or add Leia into the droid scene. I feel like other editors have probably attempted this with much better results.

But going back through this thread gave me a few more ideas.

The scene at Jabba’s palace would be the Lapti Nek scene and Oola’s demise. During this scene, you could create an insert shot of Boushh somewhere in the room. So, Leia in disguise has already infiltrated the palace. (I would also cut the Boba shots from this scene, and insert the SE shots of Boba with the dancers) So, Oola dies, cut to the sunset shot, and transition to nighttime when everyone is asleep. Boushh sneaks around and let’s Han out.

The continuity issue arises when Jabba is revealed and C3PO is standing right behind them. So, instead of Jabba and basically everyone else at the palace being wide awake and hiding behind literal curtains, what if Han and Leia stand up, turn around, and Boba is standing there waiting for them, gun drawn? You could take his shots from the Wookie bounty scene (which have been cut from this hypothetical version), and flip/recolor them to match the palace at night. You could lay it out like this:

• Han and Leia stand up and face camera.
• Boba quickly raises his blaster.
• Han and Leia (mostly Leia) reaction shot. They’re caught.
• Boba lowers his blaster.

Then you show Han being thrown in the cells, and you could possibly keep Leia being brought before Jabba and Jabba being all gross and licking his non-existent lips, if you can crop/cut around 3PO. I think it’s be about 3 shots total.

Later, whenever 3PO and R2 come to try and give Jabba a message, Oola is dead at this point, Leia has been enslaved (off-screen) so it would be a pain to try to avoid these continuity issues when 3PO and R2 show him Luke’s message. So, an older idea I had would be for them to enter the palace, but when they encounter Bib Fortuna, he just tells them that Jabba will not bargain, and sends them directly to the dungeons. An added benefit to this is we also would lose Luke’s hologram, so our true first glimpse of Luke would be when he walks into the palace.

I know this would cut a lot of the palace sequence, and I do enjoy most of it, but I think it would be interesting to try this sequence of events and see if it livens the pace of the first act a little. I do feel like this part of the film meanders when I go back and watch it.

I also had another idea for all of the Ewok antics later on in the film. I don’t know know if I would cut all the stuff about the Ewoks thinking 3PO is a god, but I would like to make it where the reason the Ewoks don’t eat the guys be because of Leia. In the film, Leia gains Wicket’s trust and takes her back to his village, she protests their capture, but they don’t listen to her, nor even 3PO, until Luke uses the Force to trick them into thinking 3PO really is a magical god.

I think it would be great for Leia’s character (and give her something to do), if she was able to use her politics skill to gain the Ewok’s trust and have enough influence to save the everyone herself. It also makes the Ewoks seem a little less gullible.

Basically, you would just restructure the scene a little bit to where they are about to cook them, then Leia comes out. You could the shot of them aggressively pointing spears in her face, and when she says they’re her friends (and maybe asks 3PO to tell them to let them go), the Ewoks listen immediately. So no levitating 3PO or anything like that. It is Leia’s kindness that gains the Ewok’s trust, not 3PO’s “divine influence”.

I know the Worst Ideas thread isn’t usually the place for nuanced discussion, but I’ve never seen ESB and AOTC compared in this way. I wonder how AOTC could’ve been plotted differently to be more like ESB.

Maybe, instead of relenting, Anakin could’ve jumped out of the ship and left Obi-Wan to fight Dooku on his own. Obi-Wan loses and Dooku escapes, and we’re left to wonder if Anakin had stayed, could the war have ended the day it began? This could fuel Anakin’s motivation to fight in this war and take more drastic measures to try and end it, leading him on the path to the dark side.

jarbear said:

Although people are ok with it and come up with “interpretations” or “what he meant was …”

Isn’t that essentially excusing people or bad things/thinsg that don’t make sense.

I don’t think these interpretations are excusing stuff that don’t make sense, I just think some lines are being over-analyzed a little bit.

I don’t really agree with the argument that this line should be cut. On the most surface level, it could be interpreted that a thousand generations of knowledge/experience live in her through her training and the Jedi texts. She’s the last Jedi, and the legacy of their culture. And yeah, there is a “literal” aspect of the fact that they exist in the Force, and she could possibly commune with them.