RogueLeader

Jar Jar Bricks said:

As for Palpatine not knowing about Rey, I see that to be a little convoluted. Clearly her parents have been in hiding for however old she is in years plus a couple extra years, so why would he wait all that time to track them down?

The sequence of events I’m thinking of is that Rey’s father escapes Exegol by hijacking the Bestoon Legacy, he flies to Jakku (which is right next to the Unknown Regions) where he meets Rey’s mom. They leave Rey there, flying off in the Legacy. Ochi is sent after them to find Rey, and also to retrieve his ship back.

So why did Palpatine wait until she was six to go after her, and how did he even find out about her? This all just brings up a lot of questions.

Also, like the japor snippet addition!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

RogueLeader said:

Also, you could kind of explain it away that perhaps these clones are a byproduct of both science and Sith alchemy. Perhaps they have to infuse these clones with the dark side in order for them to be even viable for his spirit.

That is actually how I explained it in my novelization. Great minds think alike!

Oh really? Thanks for the compliment! At first I actually agreed with the idea of making the clones look more normal, but that explanation works for me. I guess you have to question why Palpatine’s current vessel doesn’t look as wrinkly, and more like a pale McDiarmid, but it’s all a little convoluted anyway, so you can hand-wave it somehow.

But Palpatine wasn’t born looking like that. His wrinkly face is a byproduct of him basically being a powerful conduit of the dark side for decades. So he became that way because of his long term use of the dark side.

So if these clones are just clones of the man Sheev Palpatine, then technically they should look more like regular Ian McDiarmid, and not the deformed Darth Sidious. But, like Faraday said, it is easier to quickly understand that it is Sidious because the clones look like how we recognize him the most. Also, you could kind of explain it away that perhaps these clones are a byproduct of both science and Sith alchemy. Perhaps they have to infuse these clones with the dark side in order for them to be even viable for his spirit. Could be the same reason Snoke is so fucked up. Creating dark side strandcasts leads to physical deformity, since it is perverse and unnatural.

Don’t apologize for brainstorming on your own thread!

The big issue the writers ran into by introducing this concept in the last film is that you have to exposit so much backstory in order to explain it, and then it screws with the pacing of the story they’re trying to tell present-day. So trying to go into more detail sort of just exacerbates the issue.

And of course, one of the major storytelling rules is to show, not tell. You can kind of get away with it when it isn’t a lot, but the more that must be explained, the messier it gets. I thought the idea of having a chapter that just quickly flashes through what happened wouldn’t be a bad idea, and then you could get into her dad’s head as to why he wouldn’t give up her location.

Could it be possible Palpatine didn’t know about Rey until recently, and Ochi killed her parents before they had a chance to even mention her to Ochi? Like, they left her on Jakku in their own ship, then Ochi found them, snuck on their ship and killed them while they were in a drunken stupor?

But again, you can get away with this complicated backstory in the novelization, but even the little bit we get in the film is too much nonsense for my tastes. At least you’re trying to make some sense of it.

NeverarGreat said:

https://imgur.com/gallery/ViBroKV

Interesting take on the Force.

Super interesting take. I also like the idea of the “dark side” being more of a reference to a Force-user tapping into knowledge that is hidden in the “dark” rather than it being dark=evil. While it ultimately leads to evil, that dark side isn’t inherently evil, necessarily.

The idea of the Force being malevolent is a fun idea, too. You could argue that it isn’t necessarily evil, though. It could just be a living thing trying to survive the only way it knows how to. To the Force, humans might be as inconsequential as bacteria are to us. But this is a great example of why I think the Force shouldn’t be explicitly explained too much, but storytellers should allow the characters in-universe to have a myriad of beliefs and opinions on the nature of the Force, and these differing views can be what leads to narrative conflict across the franchise. They brought up KOTOR 2, which is a great example of this idea. Kreia basically believes that the Force is malevolent, and she wants to destroy the Force. The game never states the she has the correct opinion, or anyone does, really, but you as the character have to choose what you believe in.

Damn. Makes me want to go back and play KOTOR 2.

Yeah, they’re probably gonna start coming in quite a bit now.

Maybe he could say “no orbital disintegrations”. Since Hux is implying to destroy the city from orbit, like with a Dreadnought or something.

Great addition. I always thought having Kylo get glimpses of his childhood through Chewie would’ve been nice to see. I love how you basically included that fan comic that floated around of Chewie intentionally not killing Kylo when he could have.

Did Kylo get what he wanted from
Chewie, though? You might could add a bit extra to clarify that a little bit. It makes it seem like the memories of their shared past are what he wanted.

Yeah, Sade nailed it.

I’m guessing you are asking in regards to your novelization rewrite, Bricks. I have some ideas I could throw out, though.

I know some early names for Rey’s character in Lucas’ earlier treatments were Taryn, Thea, and “Winkie” apparently. Thanks George. Under JJ, Thea eventually became Sally, then Kira, Echo, and finally Rey. Maybe you could go with one of these names for Rey’s mom (preferably not Winkie…)

For Rey’s dad, I think it depends if you’re going with him being a clone/strandcast, or his biological son. If I recall, early Star Wars drafts had George naming the Emperor as Xerxes XII. Thanks, George. I could imagine him having more of a clone identification number rather than a name, like, X-12. The Greek letter X is pronounced like “kai” (spelt “chi”), so maybe he could’ve gone by Kai.

Palpatine actually had a possible son in Legends called Triclops, who was a mutant with a third eye. His mother was actually Palpatine’s creepy aid, Sly Moore. While Rey’s dad obviously doesn’t have a third eye, maybe you could pay homage to this weird piece of Legends by having his name be something similar, like Tristan. As “rey” means “king” in Spanish (which I guess fits with the Rey Palpatine reveal), Tristan is similar to the Spanish word “triste” which means “sad”. It would be fitting, since his existence was a disappointment to both Palpatine and much of the audience.

Anyway, just some ideas.

I actually don’t like Solana. Solana basically sounds like a combination of Solo and Organa, just how Kylo sounds like a combination of Skywalker and Solo.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

This is why I’m kinda torn. If Ben Solo showed up on Tatooine, I’d imagine Rey would become Rey Solo instead of Rey Skywalker in that scene. But that kinda goes against the title of the movie and the purpose of the trilogy. I’d be interested in hearing other opinions on how to solve this problem. Maybe replace the Jedi organization with an organization called “Skywalkers”? Not sure.

That doesn’t necessarily have to be the point of the film from the standpoint of somebody’s fan edit, though. Even without “Rey Skywalker”, you can still have two other meanings of that title that can be emphasized in a fan edit.

1. The rise of Skywalker legend, through Luke’s actions on Crait.
2. The rise of the the last (biological) Skywalker, Ben Solo, returning to the light.

The idea of an a new order of Force users called “Skywalkers” is also interesting, and I know people speculated on that happening. Plus, it fits the naming convention of the last film in each trilogy if Skywalker became a new order, separate from the Sith and Jedi dichotomy.

If you went with this idea, maybe you could pull it off by changing Rey’s dialogue with the old lady a little.

The old lady could say, “There’s been no one here for so long. Who are you?”

Then, Rey could pause, look over at Luke and Leia’s ghosts, smile, look back and say, “I’m a Skywalker”. Maybe some would see that as vague, but that could be a good thing. People could choose to see it either as her taking the Skywalker name, or as her claiming it as a title. As if she were saying, “I’m a Jedi.”

You would just have to find a good sound byte of her saying “a” that fits the sentence, as well as alter her mouth to make it seem like she is saying “a” instead of “Rey”. I wonder if you could even trim her saying “Rey” enough to make it sound like “a”?

I don’t think anyone here really wants to argue if these changes should be made or not, at least in this General Ideas thread. I think any idea is worth discussing how they can be accomplished for those who want to make these changes, regardless if it “misses the point” or not.

VegetableMan said:

One thing that has always bothered me though, ever since I was a kid, is that even if the Jedi were deliberately portrayed as flawed it seems the movies prove them right in some of their ambiguous teachings. For exemple, concerning the « no-attachements » rule, watching AOTC as a kid I remember thinking the Jedi were assholes for banning relationships but then ROTS seemed to validate them because it was like : « see they were right, because a romantic relationship led Anakin to the dark side ». I know it’s not that simple, but as a 12 year-old that’s how I and I’m sure a lot of other kids my age understood it.

I think it has more to do with the Jedi’s approach being a self-fulfilling prophecy, rather than them being objectively right.

This might be a shitty analogy, but I kind of like to compare it to the drastically different teenage pregnancy rates in the United States and the Netherlands.

In the US, especially the American South, sex is sort of a taboo topic for teenagers. In a lot of Southern schools, sex education can basically be summed up to “the safest sex is no sex”. Absistence-focused sex education is the norm, and schools and parental discussions focus on the dangers and risks of sex, and why you should avoid it until you’re married. So, this leaves teenagers rather uneducated about safe sex practices, and unsurprisingly many Southern states have the highest teen pregnancy rates.

The Netherlands, on the other hand, has a rather open and honest system of sex education. From what I understand, schools, medical professionals and parents talk about the joys and responsibilities of intimacy. Dutch teenagers are properly educated on safe sex, and given the resources to help ensure it. In general, the topic of sex is a lot more open and not treated as taboo. Netherlands currently has one of the lowest teen pregnancy rates in the world.

Bringing it back to the Jedi, the drastic actions Anakin takes to save Padmé can partially be blamed on the Jedi’s failure to teach him how to deal with his emotions in a healthy way. The Jedi teach children to basically fear their emotions, avoid attachment, and bury their feelings. The Jedi keep Anakin from having a healthy relationship with his mother, and when Anakin falls in love with Padmé, he is afraid to tell the Jedi, and in their secrecy, he becomes possessive of her. He feels like he can’t tell Obi-Wan or Yoda what’s really going on (or they wouldn’t understand), so he takes drastic measures to save her.

I personally don’t think Obi-Wan or Yoda were really even self-aware of how the Jedi’s conservative philosophy was partially responsible for their downfall. To me, it seems they think it has more to do with the dark side clouding their vision, and their growing arrogance, which is true too. They never really pass that knowledge onto Luke in the films, and in a way they made the same mistake with him. Even though Luke seemingly learned something about how Anakin’s attachment to his son saved him, I think Luke also saw how his fear of Vader turning Leia almost made him fall to the dark side. And in the end, that fear is what causes Luke to make the same mistakes with Ben.

He sort of touches on it in TLJ with Rey, but he never really goes into the detail I think they should’ve. Luke recognized the Jedi teaching was flawed, but that’s never paid off very clearly.

But yeah, I agree that if this is what Lucas was going for, it could’ve been made a little clearer. This is how I see it at least.

GMatias said:

One thing I’ve been thinking of is what Ben could do post-Kylo if an edit were to have him survive Exegol. I’ve seen ideas of him going off as a Caine-in-Kung-Fu-type nomad to try & atone for his actions, but that doesn’t seem like enough of a benefit for all the trouble of redeeming him. Even if he straight-up defected right after Exegol, yes he wouldn’t part of the First Order’s arsenal, but that still seems like missing an opportunity.

This is an interesting idea, GMatias! I’ve also thought about how redeemed-Ben could take advantage of his role as Supreme Leader, I don’t think I’ve heard this exact idea before. My idea was to replace Finn’s ADR line at the end of the film, “People are rising up all over the galaxy” with a random Resistance person saying, “Ren has commanded the First Order to surrender!”

Regardless of the debate over whether he should live or not, it is interesting to consider the practicality of some of potential endings where Ben lives.

I definitely think Ben meeting Rey on Tatooine would probably be the simplest option. I’ve actually made some concept images for how it could look, and determined which shots could be used to accomplish it. I guess the question would then be whether the movie ends with Rey and Ben on Tatooine together, or Ben staying on Tatooine while he watches Rey leave on the Falcon.

I know others have mentioned the idea of Ben exiling himself on Ahch-To at the end of the movie. I believe Pablo Hidalgo said he actually suggested this idea when TROS was being developed. I think the best way someone could construct this ending would be to use shots of Ben standing on the edge of the Death Star ruins, before he talks with Han’s memory, and make it so Ben standing on that rock outcrop where Luke becomes one with the Force.

Wasn’t Nev working on something where he was trying to replicate the movement of the original
Star Wars crawl? I’d be great if you could replicate the speed, blur and shakiness of those original crawls in After Effects. Basically simulating all those little imperfections that give it character.

I was going to make this suggestion as well! Seems like it would be the easiest way to name drop the Sith in the OT.

Axlanian, whenever you re-record, would you mind redoing my old lines that are currently there?

”What’s your operating number?”

”Ugh, kill me now…”

Just thought it might be nice to have those as back up just in case.

Nice, axlanian. You have a much better stormtrooper voice than I do. 😂

Sorry, I meant in aurebesh.

Besides graffiti, I didn’t think to much extra would be necessary. You can already hear blaster shots and stuff in the distance I believe, during certain points of the Kijimi sequence. I think adding more sounds of distant blaster fire, explosions, even battle cries, could help keep that in the audiences mind. It looks like the stormtroopers are raiding houses, so you could even have something like a distant First Order announcement saying anyone harboring insurgents will be punished, or something like that.

Right. He’s in that pose with his lightsaber overhead, but it is old man Luke from Crait.

Faraday, or someone else who does graphic design, maybe we could get another piece of graffiti that says “Skywalker” or “Skywalker Lives!”

And even without the symbolism regarding the unstable lightsaber, it also gives us some actual consequences to it being broken in the last film, beyond Rey putting a leather strap around the hilt. Plus, it gives us a cool new effect that is visually interesting.

Speaking of the puppet show, the puppets are almost done (using Faraday’s designs) and I’ll hopefully get a chance to film them this weekend or next week.

If I had to pick one, I would probably go with the Acolyte. I’m looking forward to the franchise moving beyond the era of the Skywalker Saga. I think, if handled correctly, it could help Star Wars as a brand grow. The main Saga has a lot of context and baggage that I think makes it difficult for new fans to get into it, so a new series that started from scratch could be a great way to bring in new audiences and leave behind the chains of expectations that content like the Sequel Trilogy had.

But to be fair, I’m personally the most excited for Obi-Wan Kenobi at this point. But I think the Acolyte is arguably the most important out of the bunch. It’s success could have a big impact on the future of the franchise.

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing that J. I agree with you, it sort of defeats the purpose of the galaxy being too hopeless to fight at that point. So the novel is saying people still had hope, but just didn’t hear the message? Weird. Like, what’s the point of that? Seems like they wanted a logical answer for why no one came, rather than a thematic one.

Right. Or have someone like Qui-Gon comment more on his problems with the Order. We know he is a little bit of a rebel, Obi-Wan says as much when he mentions it.

OBI-WAN : Master, you could be sitting on the Council by now if you would just follow the code. They will not go along with you this time.

But not a lot of time is spent on these issues.

It makes me think of Pop Culture Detective’s video on the flaws of the Jedi Order. It’s a great analysis, but the ironic thing to me is that PCD seems to believe these issues were unintentional on Lucas’ part. I’m more of the belief that these flaws were intentional, although sometimes it is hard to tell when you listen to Lucas’ interviews (correct me if I’m wrong). I also think their flaws not being discussed in the text more directly made it unclear to fans if Lucas had any self-awareness when he wrote the Jedi this way.

This seems to be one of the reasons fans seem to be enjoying the High Republic content that we’re now getting. We get to see the Jedi at their best, and a functioning Republic that actually gets shit done. So if you read those books, we see how the Republic and the Order began to decay from within by the time we get to the Prequels.

Talking about the issues with the Jedi Order has always been fun for me, since it’s flaws have become pretty integral to the conversation. It does make me wish TROS had made a clearer statement on the future of the Jedi. Rey reaffirms the necessity of the Jedi, but never indicates whether or not she will make the same mistakes as the past Jedi did. Despite its flaws, that was one reason I liked the DOTF script.

TROS Rey:

REY: (softly) Be with me. Be with me. Be with me. (opens her eyes) They’re not with me. Ugh.

LEIA: Rey. Be patient.

REY: (sighs) I’m starting to think it isn’t impossible… to hear the voices of the Jedi who came before.

DOTF Rey:

REY: ‘Balance.’ Dark suffocates the light. Light extinguishes the dark. Over and over. How is that balance?

LUKE: I know that anger. I had it. My father had it too.

REY: So says my master. And his master before him. A thousand masters, so eager to tell us how to live.

Pretty stark contrast. While it isn’t perfect, I at least can appreciate the effort to comment on the Jedi’s problems and how they need to change. But I think I would’ve had Luke play a more active role in teaching Rey on how the new Jedi need to change.

But regarding Obi-Wan’s line, I think it should be kept as-is. If you’re going with the line change for ESB so Obi says, “There you will find Yoda, a Jedi master who instructed me”, then the line “Was I any different when you taught me” is still valid. I recall someone shortening it to “Was I any different” but it creates this awkward pause. You could possibly make it “Was I any different when my master taught me”, but again, I just don’t think it is necessary.