RogueLeader

Damn, it’s crazy how much the descoring and rescoring has changed the tone of this series. I’m sure all the foley you’re having to do can be exhausting, but I promise you it is paying off. I think a lot of your new music selections are an improvement. The only one that stood out to me was hearing the Across the Stars motif during Leia’s rescue. I know the idea is probably because she is Anakin and Padmé’s kid, but I’ve just always associated the song with romance, so it doesn’t really work for me there. Could Leia’s motif potentially fit there instead?

I wonder if it would be possible to imply that more time has passed when we see Ben meditating on the ship, and not that he got an alert that Leia was in danger as soon as he was off world. Perhaps fading out as he walks toward the ship rather than a hard cut could help suggest that. And/or potentially a shot of a transport ship flying through space? Or maybe a brand new shot to show he is chilling in a warehouse on some totally different planet. Just something to show that a little time has passed.

I think using a shot from Rebels is interesting, and I think you could potentially get away with it (especially if the footage was more shaky and scratchy, perhaps, through the view screen). I do think you might need VFX to address how we don’t see the sun in one shot, then see it in the binoculars, but then don’t see it in the next shot. I do like what you’re trying to do with this scene though.

I don’t think you need the scene with Obi and the Jawa. It flows nicely as-is imo.

What you’ve done with the Inquisitors showing up on Tatooine is really cool! I have some notes I could give on that to maybe help make it work more, but I can hold off on that for now. I think this is a cool direction to go in though. I wonder if you cut the close up shot of the Jedi hanging. With his new “death” and the shot of his feet hanging combined with the new creepy Inquisitor music, I think not seeing the damage is better than seeing his body hanging there relatively unscathed. I think you can get away with the wide shot of their ship flying off though.

I wonder if in Obi’s Leia vision, one of the last shots we could see is Daiyu or something, or hear one of the kidnappers say, “Set course for Daiyu.” I agree with your Luke/Bespin comparison, but Luke did still see Bespin at least. But I guess Obi could’ve seen it off screen too? Idk just a thought.

I think the overall structure is working well so far. A part of me does wonder if I miss a bit more of Leia’s introduction, but I may be biased a little bit. I did realize you run into a question of why the kidnappers set up a dummy hostage, if there plan was no longer to capture her rescuer, but maybe that was just a safety measure they take with all of their hostages? I personally think the muffled Leia line works by the way.

I also wonder if it is fine that Obi and Bail have no contact after he senses Leia in danger. Like, could you potentially have voiceover of Bail as Obi-Wan arrives at Daiyu, implying they communicated after Obi-Wan sensed Leia.

I might have more thoughts later, but pretty cool so far!

He is! We’re both big Star Wars fans and watch all of the new shows and what not together whenever I get a chance to visit.

I couldn’t tell you time code off the top of my head, but it is in your Politics of War episode. I think it might come from the original Senate Murders episode but I’m not sure. It’s the scene with the two bounty hunters (the fish dude and the Selkath), and they’re talking to Dooku’s hologram. It happens near the end of the scene I think.

It’s funny, the Mortis stuff used to be one of my least favorite arcs because of its implications with the Force, but your version really brings back the mystery that makes the Force so interesting. This is definitive for me.

I also was gonna tell you that I actually was telling my dad about what you were doing with Refocused last night (I showed off your excel spreadsheet) and we also watched Politics of War. It’s pretty nuts how you truncated three episodes into one. My dad couldn’t tell where one episode ended and another began, and I honestly couldn’t either. The only real hint is Padmé’s costume/hair changes, but that is arguably just her changing wardrobe for different days and occasions, and we only even thought about it because we knew it was an edit. It’s really great. I think my dad wants to go back and watched Refocused now so he doesn’t have to commit to the entire series.

I did want to mention that I think I saw a rogue frame during the scene where Dooku hires the bounty hunters. You may have already noticed that and saving it for your next polish export.

I could do! I could move it later, so the conversation goes:
Obi-Wan: “I don’t understand.”
Daughter: “When you reach the altar, it will give you what you need.”
Qui-Gon: “Trust in the force.”
This way, it helps justify Obi-Wan essentially being given a useless response by Daughter, though it doesn’t solve the issue at hand.

That is true, though I didn’t necessarily feel like we needed more explanation at that point. I just felt like we needed some reason Obi-Wan goes along with the Daughter into this cave after she essentially kidnapped him. Yes, this episode can rely on dream logic, but I feel like it would be useful to have a line during that first shot of them walking up to the cave. Something to acknowledge the situation. Like I said, Obi-Wan could say, “What is this place?” or “Where are we?” And/or the Daughter could say, “Come with me” or some line about her brother. I felt that the Qui-Gon line would’ve worked during that shot as a way to reassure Obi-Wan. It could work in that place you suggested as well, but I feel like some kind of line would be nice to have in that first shot. I hope that makes sense.

Love everything you said in response, Eddie!

Yes, the additional Qui-Gon bits totally help increase his presence, and it adds to the sense that he is guiding them through this.

Could you just push that line “Trust in the Force” to the shot of Obi-Wan walking with the Daughter? I think I recall that line not being totally necessary for the previous scene, but it benefits Obi-Wan’s lack of questioning.

I think “Take only what you take with you” line does work, but it might be worth playing with alternatives. Maybe cobble together Anakin saying something like, “What’s there?”
“Trust only what you take with you” is fine but you lose some of that meaning that I interpreted, which I thought was nice.
Another potential line you could cobble together could be, “Take only what is with you”, just would need to source that “is” sound.

Didn’t notice the secret line! Nice touch, I’m glad I came to a similar conclusion.

Oh, another suggestion! I wonder if you could squeeze in Ahsoka saying, “Master!” when Anakin wakes up. And before Obi asks if he’s alright. I guess it was just weird Ahsoka didn’t say anything to Anakin after he helped save her. It is one of those things that still works because we’re in dream world. Generally all of my suggestions fall into that category. I do agree that the red saber idea or having a Obi-Wan like during the white out are not necessary. The transitions I brought up might benefit from extension, but I watched it with my dad and we didn’t notice and editing issues.

Anakin Starkiller said:

I’ve actually already done that. I left Snoke’s voice in since that moment lands much better with three voices and I don’t see any plot holes that would create. Just because Snoke and Palpy are working together doesn’t mean Palpy can’t impersonate Snoke on occasion to manipulate Kylo.

Sounds pretty good! I think I played with it before at one point, but I’m glad the idea works. And you’re right that Palpatine still could’ve impersonated Snoke. I guess I was worried about confusing people, but him saying he trained Snoke should make it clear that Snoke was a different person.

I love the idea of the destruction of Hosnian being a mass sacrifice to resurrect Palpatine. It’s so sinister and dramatic! Reminds me of when I wrote backstory to his resurrection where he drained the life force of Ewoks and Gungans.

Maybe it’d be good if Snoke was the one to say it. That plus the line about training him would really clarify the relationship between the two (master and apprentice).

At the very least, maybe during the shot of the mysterious figure rising from the muck, we could hear Snoke say, “Darkness rises!”

I think something that would really help in regards to setting up Palpatine is having Vader’s helmet actually speak to Kylo, which would get paid off by the “every voice” line. I’m sure it’s been done several times over by now, just gotta dig up the best version.

This is one of my top desires for a ST edit. I think it would be cool if Kylo received a vision from the Vader helmet in TFA that clarified his motivation to turn to the dark side. But you also could place Kylo touching Vader’s helmet in TROS at the beginning of that film, and give him a vision there where Vader speaks to him and shows him the way to the Wayfinder.

And Sasquatch, I think it is a matter of not wanting to add more backstory to Rey’s parents when it isn’t really necessary.

Eddie, what you’ve done with this episode is brilliant. Watching it I couldn’t even remember what had been cut. It doesn’t necessarily feel like anything is missing.

First, some suggestions that I wrote as I was watching the episode: I wonder if a jump out of hyperspace sound could be added right as we began fading into the first shot. Something to help blend the music fading in.

When the Daughter takes Obi-Wan to the altar, I wonder if you give Obi-Wan a line, something like, “What is this place?” I do think this episode runs fine on dream-logic, but I think it could help with the flow. Or maybe the Daughter could say, “I will take you to them” or something like that. Or just simply use “Come with me” that was cut as they’re walking to the cave.

Since this is a dream anyway, I wonder if you could change the color of Ahsoka’s lightsabers from green to red? When she pulls out her lightsaber and it slowly ignites, and Anakin looks shocked, I think seeing that it is red would add a nice punch to the moment. And since this is all a dream it is a cool way to have a brief glimpse of Sith Ahsoka.

I also was confused about how exactly you used the fireplace eyes shot of Ahsoka. Could you explain that a little more? I may have just missed it.

Color changing might make the green tower light in the background turn red, but would that matter? Maybe you could just recolor the green bulbs to red in the other shots too, since it is supposed to be a dark side place anyway.

Before the Son says, “Can you feel it, sister?” I wonder if we could get a hint that she is there with him. Like, she could simply say “brother.” It just gives us the idea that she just arrived there or something. But again, I guess it isn’t necessary because dream-logic.

Potentially a longer beat between Anakin healing Ahsoka and then waking up? Feels like the transition is too quick, especially since Ahsoka looks back normal now. Another beat of white screen might help feel like slightly more time has passed. But with the music transitions this might not be feasible.

I’m still trying to figure out the secret Qui-Gon line you’re referring to! I thought it might be “control your fear” before he sees his mother, but you mentioned that so I guess it isn’t it. Also, did you add something to that voice? Because at first it almost sounded like the Father. Which would raise some interesting questions. Is this a test from Qui-Gon, or from the Father, and Qui-Gon is simply guiding Anakin through the Father’s test? Or, is this all something Qui-Gon has put together to help them through what’s to come? Or, Qui-Gon just guided them to this place (a place he may have once visited himself) and let the Force take it from there? I may have just misheard the voice thing, but I like the mystery of it all.

I don’t think this is what you were referencing, but before Anakin enters the Son’s lair, do you have Qui-Gon say, “Take only what you take with you.”? Kind of awkwardly worded but I think it works. Since to me, Qui-Gon’s not talking about what he’s physically carrying, but what he’s emotionally carrying. And this could imply that the darkness within him is what has corrupted Ahsoka, and not the Son. BUT, if the Son is simply a manifestation of Anakin’s own darkness anyway, it’s one in the same.

That’s what I love about what you’ve done with this episode. These interpretations were arguably already there, but now they aren’t bogged down by all the other stuff with them trying to get off the planet and what not.

Speaking of which, I’m not sure how you interpreted the dagger metaphor, but I took it like this:

The dagger is a metaphor for self-sacrifice. I don’t think Obi-Wan understands this until he sees the Daughter jump in the way to save her father, and then sacrifice the rest of her life force to save Ahsoka. To me, this foreshadows Obi-Wan eventually sacrificing himself to not only save Luke, but transfer “hope” from himself to Luke. I think this is touched on with the “There is no hope” and “There’s always hope!” lines.

I do wish there was a way to make it clearer that Obi-Wan is getting something from this moment. Like, a close up of him observing what’s happening would be nice, but the only sort of close up is when he is shielding his face from the light. Like when the screen goes white, hear Obi-Wan say, “I… understand”, but that might be too on the nose.

I know awhile back you interpreted Obi-Wan failing to use the dagger properly as his failure to save Anakin from the dark side, but I think it could be interpreted both ways. Like I said, keeping things vague gains the benefit of fostering multiple interpretations and double meanings, just like the original Dagobah Cave sequence had.

And I think the question of “Balance” benefits the most from what you’ve done with this episode. With the way it ends, there is clear analogy being made to the morality play the Mortis gods depict, and what Anakin eventually does to bring “balance” as George laid it out.

It’s funny, because I think this edit simultaneously simplifies the message, but also, through vagueness, increases the mystery. I could go on more about what I got from this episode but I’ll stop my long post for now. Great job, Eddie!

I think Octorox said he is using a deepfake.

I agree that Hayden’s voice is slightly deeper than how he sounded 20 years ago. If you go back and forth and listen to his voice in the rest of the movie, you can maybe tell better.

It seems a bit of people place it right after the bombing, which is probably a good place. But I feel like there is a natural segue between the bombing and their training, when usually there is a narrative flow between scenes (with the exception of ROTJ). After the bombing, it makes sense to go to Padmé’s senate deleted scene, or the council meeting with Palpatine to discuss the problems in the Republic.

Idk if it would work but I also could picture a version where Palpatine is talking about putting her under the protection of the Jedi, and Palpatine says, “maybe someone you’re familiar with, like an old friend…” (either cut there or keep ‘Master Kenobi’) then hard cut to the Anakin/Obi-Wan training scene.

The only issue with that would be you would go straight from that to the elevator scene, so the difference in their appearance could potentially be more noticeable, but if we are just considering the narrative flow I think this is a logical place for the scene to be. It would be nice to add an extra line for Obi-Wan, where he walks off camera after practicing with Anakin and says something like, “Come now”, or “Let’s go”. Or maybe hear Obi-Wan’s comm beep to life and hear Windu’s voice say, “Obi-Wan”, then cut to them riding the elevator.

Eddie, are music and dialogue pretty separate in the audio tracks? I’m guessing they must be if you’re able to rearrange dialogue fairly well. I’m curious if this would make restoring also feasible (you may have done this already in past episodes and I’ve forgotten/missed it).

Spence, I think it is cool that you managed to keep the whole series basically, but just trimmed it down to a decent movie length.

I think you should stick with what you have as-is, but it might be worth looking at interviews with the guy who wrote the film screenplay the series expanded upon if you haven’t already. For example, Reva dying was something that happened in his script, but it seems like the rescue from Fortress Inquisitorius wasn’t a part of the original story, nor did any other Inquisitor feature beyond Reva.

Anyway, sounds like you basically have it done, so I wouldn’t spend too much more time on it (especially since you were also pretty dissatisfied with the show anyway).

EddieDean said:

Here’s another little clip from the episode Mortis: Oops! All dream-speak!

I wanted to remove the Father’s references to real geography (“nowhere to go”) and replace them with something far more metaphorical, but which still transitioned into him sending Anakin to bed. The following Anakin-Father scene is WAY too explicit with the Father talking about how real they are, so is going to be cut entirely, but some of its dialogue, chopped up and reordered, made a nice segue into Anakin’s bedtime, with more dreamlike logic to it.

Nice. I love that his new line rhymes.

Reading Ralph McQuarrie’s interviews regarding it is so funny. It’s like he draws these very alien designs, George gives him feedback, and eventually he ends up with a teddy bear. I like to picture George never explicitly saying, “Basically teddy bears”, but Ralph ends up with that based off George’s vague feedback and realizes what he is doing.

Vladius said:

NFBisms said:

Here’s how I was roughly planning on streamlining the kidnapping plot’s introduction in my edit.

The idea is that Obi-Wan feels a disturbance in the Force related to Leia while trying (and failing) to contact Qui-Gon.

It’s very very specific to how I’m approaching the Tatooine portion, I’ll get into it in my thread, but for the most part I don’t think we need any of the Alderaan stuff in full if we can help it.

Some of it is nice, but I don’t think a lot of it is necessary from a character perspective. (which is my focus) We can learn a lot about Leia more organically through her interactions with Ben later in the series.

I don’t think this approach is polished/perfect yet or if I’ll even follow through on it, but I like this for how it mitigates a good bit of the POV jumping, keeping us centered on the titular character for most of the [series-turned-] movie. We lose a neat moment with the intercutting Vader suit-up, but it was entirely redundant anyway.

The biggest loss I think is having Obi-Wan not completely cut off from the Force. Him saving Leia on Daiyu later in this context would just be him as rusty and weak. Which is fine I guess, it’s not like that’s not along the lines of how we understood Obi-Wan before, but I liked that moment in the show as it was.

anyway, I want to try to lean less on this device going forward

I have more to explain about it but I’ll save it for my thread

That sounds great but I never got the impression that Obi Wan was cut off from the Force.

Yeah, I guess it is never explicitly stated that he is cut off from the Force. If anything, he wouldn’t be calling out to Qui-Gon in Ep 1 if he was aware he had cut himself off from the Force. So even in the show as-is, his connection is probably just very weak (through lack of use, lack of faith, etc.)

Ah, nice! I like the direction you’re taking it.

That is really cool NFB! I like how we just get little glimpses of Leia.

I agree that Obi doesn’t necessarily have to be cut off from the Force completely. I think the sort of the ESP he is doing might be an easier task than lifting an object or person, like he does later, so the moment still works imo in that context.

I’m sure you’ll explain in your thread, but does Obi not sense Leia is in danger until after he leaves the planet? If so, why is he leaving Tatooine? May I misunderstood it. Interested in hearing about it either way!

Excited to see a test clip! Wasn’t sure if how easy it would be to cut around the space diamond but I think you did a good job avoiding it!

The Chosen One thing is something is wish George never explicitly answered.

Could someone that has the Kenobi series downloaded confirm the audio situation? Is the dialogue on an isolated track? Just curious how difficult rescoring might be.

BedeHistory731 said:

I have a good video here, by one of the only good Star Wars YouTubers:

No, the Obi-Wan Kenobi Series Doesn’t Contradict A New Hope by Star Wars Explained.

I always appreciate Alex for not making the typical clickbait videos that other Star Wars YouTubers make.

I don’t always agree with yotsuya (and I actually do on quite a bit) but I like his perspective on a lot of things, and his general positivity about the franchise. We couldn’t have these interesting discussions if we all had the same opinion.

Don’t know if it was a long time ago or recent, but congrats on beating cancer, Anjohan!

Double post

Sirius said:

I have an idea about the problem involving Vader letting Obi-Wan escape in their first duel.

When the robot rescues Obi-Wan, it could show Vader having a flashback of when he rescued Obi-Wan in the Invisible Hand. After the flashback, it shows Vader turning around, leaving Ben. The scene following this would be the one where Vader talks to the Emperor.

This would imply that Vader letting Kenobi go was because he still felt something about his master, even 10 years after the events of ROTS.

That’s an interesting idea. I think the most important thing would be to clarify if Vader let him go or if he just got away, because it seems like the audience wasn’t totally on the same page.

You could simply have Vader say, “Let him go”, “Stop”, or something like that. What I personally like about the scene is how it just sits on Vader quietly looking through the flames, so we’re left to wonder what he is thinking.

But if you cut out Episode 4, you could imply Vader let him go so they could follow/track him ship to straight to Jabiim.

And I’m not sure if anyone has done a deepfake of Order 66 Anakin yet.

I think you’re right about ROTJ, and that kind of touches on what Dr. Dre also said.

I think in general Obi-Wan kind of comes off as sort of a jerk to Luke when they have their conversation. First, Obi-Wan pulls the whole “certain point of view” card, instead of just apologizing for lying to Luke. And he basically guilt trips Luke with the whole, “then the Emperor’s already won”. It feels like they aren’t sympathizing with Luke at all. And even if Obi-Wan doesn’t say he has to kill his father, it feels like he is implying it. And a lot of fans seem to have interpreted it that way.

Even Yoda scolds Luke for the situation, and gets Luke to APOLOGIZE to him even though Yoda chose to keep that knowledge from him. I mean, it is a serious betrayal of trust for Luke, and they seem pretty cold about it.

And I do agree that I feel like a theme of the film does relate to Luke being right about Vader and Obi-Wan and Yoda being wrong. I pulled a Lucas quote out earlier about how he intended for Obi and Yoda to not directly tell Luke he has kill Vader, but I’m pretty sure there is another quote somewhere that boils down to this: Empire was about how you should listen to your elders, but Return of the Jedi is about not following your elders.

I guess the idea being that eventually we have to make our own decisions outside of our mentors, who aren’t always going to be right.

Note: I’m not really talking about Lucas’ intent, but more about the execution, and how some people have interpreted Obi-Wan and Yoda’s positions in those scenes.

That’s a good way to put it. I had that feeling throughout the show, that I could see how these ideas sound good on paper, but we’re executed strangely.