Rogue Leader

Well the whole point of SOMETHING falling is to just establish dramatic effect. Like "Dude! Luke's super high up hanging on to that upside down antenna thing cos we saw that thing drop to who know where!" In this case the ambiguity comes with just one blurry object falling which people would naturally assume is Luke's hand/lightsaber because it was the only other object that fell off the same remote area which possibly establishes continuity as to what happens to the hand/saber.

If it's one random object then there will be speculation forever as to what the heck it is. So why not make it multiple piece of debris establishing it's just some random crap being ejected from Cloud City? Sneak in the hand with saber in it for the fun of it and so everyone's happy. =D 

ABC said:

That was the perfect opening for page 666 !

lol... 666...

Lord Grievous said:

I think he was joking :|

By the Force I hope so. lol =P

Ric Olie said:

adywan said:

It's a section of the vane. Sometimes things don't need to be made obvious to the audience. That was a huge problem, as i have said before, with the PT - everything was explained too much. But i've never believed that it was Lukes hand/saber becausse that would have been thrown out of the city a long time before and it certainly wouldn't have gone through the exact same shaft.  Luke lands pretty hard on the vane and part of it breaks off. I'm certainly not going to be making it look any clearer because it doesn't need it.

With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong.  The explanations are the best part of the PT.  And anyway, you don't need to put in a lot of work to fix this - just hire someone to do a voiceover.

Just go to RICVOICEOVER.COM or give a ring to 1-800-CALL-RIC.

Over ruled by one word: midichlorians.

Some explanations ARE NOT NECESSARY.

ABC said:

Rogue Leader said:

The impossible is what Rogues do best...

 

 Don't know what you do but that's The state of mind. :)

... Hem... Sorry.

I do, what I wanna do, and occasionally it happens to be impossible. =D

Bobocop said:

Lord Grievous said:

Personally I think it would be a little too convenient for Luke's hand/lightsaber to be falling down the same shaft he does, not to mention at about the same time even though there must've been at least a minute between it being cut off and Luke jumping.

Then again, if the outer door hadn't opened in between, they would have both fallen out at the same time. We don't know how often the thing takes a dump ;)

I think this is a perfect opportunity for Adywan's hand to make another cameo.

Adywan's hand could be the new Wilhelm, showing up at least once in each film!  Or even worse... kind of follow the action around like the fake hand in the beginning of Mystery Men...

Exactly... Luke lands down that shaft (That looks REALLY clean for a garbage chute imo so having it have some piece of random debris makes no sense.) right on top of a trap door but that trap door then leads to the outer door right above that weather vane he lands on. It is conceivable that Lukes hand w/saber trigger the first trap door once (So Luke never landed on his own hand when he comes to a temporary stop) and so the outer door drops Luke and his hand when it opens...

This also leads to the question why the hell are there so many traps doors in Cloud City leading to no where in particullar. lol...

Ripplin said:

Even though the EU doesn't count, doesn't someone find Luke's hand on the ground later on in one of the books?

Vader retrieves Lukes hand and lightsaber from the surface of Bespin. The hand was put into storage along with the lightsaber and used to create a Clone of Luke in "The Last Command" by Joruus C'boath.

However, further retconning now says that the hand was found in the bowels of Cloud City by an Ugnaught AND that Bespin has no surface and is a gas giant... Idiots...  

Anyway, this makes that random object falling down from the hole after Luke lands on the weather vane ambiguous at best even though it should be Luke's hand/saber.

vaderios said:

But we never see "victory class star destroyers".. in star wars (EU here)

Isnt the Jedi starfighters the early Tie fighters? (audibly and only we can make the connection)

Why would make sense to put them in the shot?

 

-Angel

The Jedi starfighter line was purchased from Kuat Drive Yards by Sienar Fleet Systems. Thus their original triangular shape shifted into moving hexagonal panels and the central TIE shaped cockpit of the Actis Eta-2 Jedi Interceptor. Once Sienar Fleet purchased the line then this was turned into the TIE series of starfighters.

In previously established EU prior to the PT, Victory-class star destroyers were prevalent during the Clone Wars. General Jan Dondonna who gave the briefing on Yavin IV prior to the first Death Star assault was a Victory-Class Star Destroyer Captain during the Clone Wars.

vaderios said:

Handzzz said:

vaderios said:

More mac ideas to action. this time space hangars and docks to replace the death star at the end of ROTS..

-Angel

I liked the shipyards with stardestroyers better, but it's not bad. :)

Ah! that?

Well just proposing :D

 

-Angel

That looks like Kuat Drive Yards... Very awesome graphic.

vaderios said:

Rogue Leader said:

I'm sure he'll get to it in time. ;)

Hey!

I keep the good NSFW stuff i make for my self :)

Isnt awesome making your own SW Pron? ;)

Which reminds me why this isnt on 005's list???

 

-Angel

Is that an elbow? It's hot... lol...

TheBoost said:

Rogue Leader said:

 

Anyway, I would be glad to go head to head with you on this and if you're saying Mandalorian back story only goes back 7 years... well... That already tells me how much you know about their background and history. However, to an extent you're correct, their legend springs from some guy in an awesome costume in ESB. However, if you're gonna say that then it's good to keep in mind that everything about the Mandalore is added on anyway and only 7-years recent (which is also false btw), thus why should we care about any of this... Then why should we care about Star Wars at all? Afterall, it's ALL made up as well and added on over the decades anyway. 

But that's the thing... We do care, and to imply that we shouldn't as much or at all because the simplicity of it's origin misses the point entirely. Why even be interested in Star Wars at all then? That's for the individual person to answer for themselves as I have my own reasons as I'm sure we all do.... However, my point was that Lucas doesn't know what the hell he's doing with his "toy box" anymore and thus creates situations and issues that are contradictory to things that were established previously. Yes, it's made up, it's ALL made up... Yet, I care cos it's a interesting story and all I really wish is that the consistency and quality of the universe is cared for at the level it should be.

Further more to mock the Mandalore by interjecting your dull Klingon comparison is unwarranted. They're different sci-fi and cultures with some similar ideals but only to an extent. I'd say Mandos would tear those ridge headed freaks a new one and won't act like dirty drunken sailors in a bad pirate movie doing so (but hey, that's me). But to say that they're the same/"hardly ground breaking sci-fi", it's been done etc etc etc... Again, the point is missed. EVERYTHING in Star Wars has been done before, it borrows from everything else and it's a different spin on stuff. It's how it's arranged that presented to us that has drawn a lot of to it as fans and even now.

However, it's the presentation NOW, that I have the most problems with... It's inconsistent, contradictory, and concepts to be done for profit rather than the integrity of the story or characters and so I don't buy those novels and/or games any longer. In fact I haven't bought anything that would profit LFL in a few years at least.

As for those notable authors you mentioned (I personally love Zahn and Stackpole's work...) Yeah? And? Is it wrong for these creative people to make money? I mean it's their living right? What sets them apart from Lucas however is that these authors are hardly the gajillionare power house Lucas is. They've not been corrupted by absolute power and not been surrounding themselves with yes men who are afraid to tell them "Hey, dude... that's like... retarded". Thus there is a certain integrity in their work that is based of struggle and meaning to make us more interested in each character (and expanded new characters, Mara Jade, Corran Horn, the Solo kids... etc) as opposed to the absolute pile of nothing that's in something like Episode 1 which had no meaning or struggle we could be drawn into or care about.

 

 Hmmm... so because Lucas actually runs his own creation "Star Wars" and doesn't hand it off to other people to run for him, and he directed the PT when he would have made just as much money barely even being involved, that proves he doesn't care and is only about money, so he should hand off control to other people. Brilliant.

And the money Lucas (the creator) makes is somehow corrupt and immoral, but the money EU authors make (and you can slap "Star Wars" on the cover of just about anything and make it a best seller) is pure and honorable because they're great artists with integrity.

There's this odd mixing of what-is-liked and what-is-morally-good. When you liked the EU it was apparently not "done for profit" and now that you don't like it as much it is just a big money grab.

You don't like the PT or the CWS so they're just pipelines to line Lucas's evil pockets, but "Battlestar: Clone Medics" and "The Hand of Thrawn" were art for arts sake and worthy of our patronage. I'm sure Lucas, Zahn, and the publishers didn't care at all that "Heir to the Empire" sold more copies than God. They were all about integrity back then. To bad they sold out later.

And perhaps I haven't tracked down the right mid-90s comic back issue, or the right RPG supplement, or Abel Pena's blog, or wookiepedia article that somehow explains how the convuluted ret-con full history of the Mandalorian Space-vikings is so wondeful. I probably should have done extensive research before being bored to tears by Traviss's novels. Shame on me.

I should make me a flowchart of how Boba Fett was Jaster Mereel but wans't and how being a Mandalorian is a race, and a concept, and a clothing style, and how Flynn Shyssha in the old Marvel comics made perfect sense until big Evil Lucas came aong  and ruined the flawless continuity.

OR I can roll that the EU is a muddled mess and always has been and parts of it are just as bad or worse than the PTs lowest moments (Crytals Star, Glove of Vader, Swarm War), and not dwell on these inconsistencies as I enjoy the product the creator of Star Wars is actually delivering to me on TV.

 

I have my own opinions due to my sources within LFL along with tons of other information which I have no time or inclination to put here. I honestly I don't care whether you agree or not as they are only just my opinions based from information I've acquired over the years. As most of it is hearsay from people within LFL you wouldn't believe me anyway. Furthermore, this is not the place or the forum to do so.

Make all the flow charts you like but this forum was not meant for this odd push for rebuttable of what's honorable or not concerning Lucas, LFL, and the EU. There are TONS of EU stuff I DON'T like but there are also things in which I do and each can be argued endlessly. You want to continue this then PM me but subjecting everyone else to this is unfair to everyone here that want to discuss how to improve the prequels.

BarBar Jinkx said:

*my the gods forgive me for saying this buuuut.....*

 

less than 20 years from now be prepared for Hayden to film Shaws scene in Lucas' "I'm about to die & want to mess with the movie one last time" edition

Mmm... I wouldn't be surprised actually... Meh... 

Obi-Wan said:

There seem to be parallels with Revisited and the original movie:

While filming in Norway, they encountered the worst winter storm in fifty years. Temperatures dropped to −20 °F (−28.9 °C), and 18 feet (5.5 m) of snow fell.^{[9] ...} The production then moved to Elstree Studios in London on March 13,^{[12] ...} A fire in January on Stage 3 (during filming of Stanley Kubrick's The Shining) caused the budget to spiral from $18.5 million to $22 million, and by July the budget spiraled $3 million more. Filming finished by mid-September.^[12]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_V:_The_Empire_Strikes_Back

Thanks for your explanations regarding the cloud-car-escort-scene! There are so many aspects to it. I can agree that the cloud-cars' job in this specific mission is actually pulling the Falcon closer to Cloud City into the clutches of the Empire.

We have a back up plan that's similar. =D Although $3 million exceeds the budget for us by about... err... $3 million. ;)

I actually have a set diary for the OG ESB... I'm gonna have to read it now. Maybe it'll give some insight and inspiration. =D

Handzzz said:

And no need for "darksaber" to kill a jedi. HK-47 knows it :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus

A very astute analysis on how to pick apart Jedi... Yeah... darksabers suck. Both of them but even the Hutt Darksaber was a step up from this newest retcon travesty.

Handzzz said:

TheBoost said:

I don't hate Zahn's books, but I like my SW more about the movie characters, not just having them around to observe and comment Dr. Watson style about how awesome Zahn's new characters are. (Luke: "Gee Mara, thanks for killing C'Boath and clone-Luuuke for me. I sure hope someone takes care of Thrawn for us!")

I think it's an interesting POV to say LUCAS is the one all about money, when Zahn, Stackpole, Anderson, Traviss, and what not all became best-sellers writing in another creators toybox.

I think you entirely missed the story. There was drama between Mara and Luke, Mara had to kill Luke, beacouse that was the Emperor's last command (the book's title tells everything about the story). Luke was in love with Mara, and the solution would'n be easy. That was Zahn's geniue that she kills a clone Luke, then she was set free from the nightmares he lived in tha past years. See how lovable the characters are? You emotionally connect with them... well, if you have emotions. :P :) Waay better than the "Hey Obi, I will go kill the whole F***'in separatists becouse they try to leave the republic. I kill them, beacouse they have a different oppinion". The Separatists have no real motivation, maybe profit but in the clone wars series is about CGI. In the Zahn's book, the Emire wants back the controll of the galaxy not just to defeat the rebels, but protecting the Galaxy from a greater threat (I don't know what it is but it's mysterious, and exciting).

Yeah theres a lot of writers and books come out, but the guys like Timothy Zahn earned every single dollar he recevied.

And in the end, go see some realy good tv dramas, like 24, Third watch, or some good movies, like Leon, the proffessional. You'll see what I want to tell. Hmmm, trying to stay in topic. :D

 

I agree Handzzz, and personally as far as character development goes it's elegantly done. Luke and Mara are set into situation where they need one another which sets them up as equals and yet different in personality which causes a lot of their tension good and bad. Along with Han and Leia having Jaina and Jacen while being hunted by the Noghri while Leia starts her Jedi journey. C'boath wanted Luke to join him and to make the galaxy in the way he wants and overall Thrawn rallying the remnant of the Empire in on cohesive force again and strategically picking apart the fragile New Republic... It expands wonderfully of all the classic characters and introduced interesting new ones.

@ Boost, If there is no mystery/problem to be solved then there's no draw to the characters since there is no greater way to bring out their personalities. (I mean tactically the best way to analyse someone is to see how they solve problems and gauge their reactions and methods). If you make new characters too weak/weaker than the classic characters then you undermine people's wanting to root for them when the shit hits the fan and overall weaken the story as a whole. 

@Handzzz, I see what you're saying about the Mandalore but watering them down just sucks and I really don't like how they're going about it. Trust me, I was at the private screening at LFL a few weeks ago before they released it on CN... Dave Filoni wanted to do so much more with them while keeping them more faithful to the establised EU, but GL over ruled him on several accounts. Ah well... it's a cartoon. =P

adywan said:

well the one good thing about all the work going on here is the noise levels and that it's really pissing off the people upstairs. After all the crap they have put me though since they moved in with their constant 48 hours parties at the weekends its good that they are being woken up at 8am by very loud power tools. Payback is a bitch. lol

Hahaha... Considering all the props and FXs you can render and rig. Couldn't you make it seems like that their flat is haunted? That Wampa you're building could be a blood thirsty creature from hell after you get your shots! ;)

Jaitea said:

Rogue Leader, ask Vaderios to do a mock-up of the shirt removal.

J

I'm sure he'll get to it in time. ;)

adywan said:

yeh, they are ripping the whole flooring up too. It turns out that i have asbestos tiling underneath the laminate flooring from when the place was first built so now they have to use special equipment to do that which is causing a bit of a setback

Eep, that's some major renovation Ady. Hope it goes well and you get your flat back in working order. I think we know all about setbacks eh? =P I guess it's good we have our Plan B. ;)

TheBoost said:

I don't hate Zahn's books, but I like my SW more about the movie characters, not just having them around to observe and comment Dr. Watson style about how awesome Zahn's new characters are. (Luke: "Gee Mara, thanks for killing C'Boath and clone-Luuuke for me. I sure hope someone takes care of Thrawn for us!")

As for the Mandalorians... I found those books dull as dirt, and as background characters in the KOTOR games the Mandalorians were adequate, but hardly memorable.

"We're a race of badass warriors. Our culture is war! But honorable... don't forget that. k'blah!" is hardly groundbreaking sci-fi. I didn't mind a different take on them on the "Clone Wars" show. I don't mind if it was faithful to the extensive linguistics Karen Traviss made up or not.

Remember, every single thing about the Mandalorians is because a dude in ESB had a cool costume. They're a tangential back-story to a background character.  The entire "Mandalorian" concept reaches back... 7 years out of the 33 year history of the franchise? 

I think it's an interesting POV to say LUCAS is the one all about money, when Zahn, Stackpole, Anderson, Traviss, and what not all became best-sellers writing in another creators toybox.

Sorry I would of replied sooner but I've been on a mission for a very important part for a costume element I need to get for ESB Revisited...

Anyway, I would be glad to go head to head with you on this and if you're saying Mandalorian back story only goes back 7 years... well... That already tells me how much you know about their background and history. However, to an extent you're correct, their legend springs from some guy in an awesome costume in ESB. However, if you're gonna say that then it's good to keep in mind that everything about the Mandalore is added on anyway and only 7-years recent (which is also false btw), thus why should we care about any of this... Then why should we care about Star Wars at all? Afterall, it's ALL made up as well and added on over the decades anyway. 

But that's the thing... We do care, and to imply that we shouldn't as much or at all because the simplicity of it's origin misses the point entirely. Why even be interested in Star Wars at all then? That's for the individual person to answer for themselves as I have my own reasons as I'm sure we all do.... However, my point was that Lucas doesn't know what the hell he's doing with his "toy box" anymore and thus creates situations and issues that are contradictory to things that were established previously. Yes, it's made up, it's ALL made up... Yet, I care cos it's a interesting story and all I really wish is that the consistency and quality of the universe is cared for at the level it should be.

Further more to mock the Mandalore by interjecting your dull Klingon comparison is unwarranted. They're different sci-fi and cultures with some similar ideals but only to an extent. I'd say Mandos would tear those ridge headed freaks a new one and won't act like dirty drunken sailors in a bad pirate movie doing so (but hey, that's me). But to say that they're the same/"hardly ground breaking sci-fi", it's been done etc etc etc... Again, the point is missed. EVERYTHING in Star Wars has been done before, it borrows from everything else and it's a different spin on stuff. It's how it's arranged that presented to us that has drawn a lot of to it as fans and even now.

However, it's the presentation NOW, that I have the most problems with... It's inconsistent, contradictory, and concepts to be done for profit rather than the integrity of the story or characters and so I don't buy those novels and/or games any longer. In fact I haven't bought anything that would profit LFL in a few years at least. I know the information yes, but mainly to keep tabs on how bad things have gotten cos once again I do care since there are still many things within SW I still appreciate and I feel a bit sadder over time when I hear the utterly horrible crap that LFL expects us to buy (literally and figuratively).

As for those notable authors you mentioned (I personally love Zahn and Stackpole's work...) Yeah? And? Is it wrong for these creative people to make money? I mean it's their living right? What sets them apart from Lucas however is that these authors are hardly the gajillionare power house Lucas is. They've not been corrupted by absolute power and not been surrounding themselves with yes men who are afraid to tell them "Hey, dude... that's like... retarded". Thus there is a certain integrity in their work that is based of struggle and meaning to make us more interested in each character (and expanded new characters, Mara Jade, Corran Horn, the Solo kids... etc) as opposed to the absolute pile of nothing that's in something like Episode 1 which had no meaning or struggle we could be drawn into or care about (if anyone would like to interject here, I would like to point out that the mere existence of this thread at all that suggests radically changing these particular movies is due to a lack of everything concerning an actual story in Episode 1. lol). Those authors are the tops of the field... and have worked hard many years prior to Star Wars before getting the opportunity to expand the universe and thus I'm sure there was tons of enthusiasm and excitement in adding on to it... A hunger I'd say. Is Lucas hungry anymore...? lol I doubt it. Hutty I'd say... =P

Ib'tuur jatne tuur ash'ad kyr'amur... (a Mando saying...) ;)

rpvee said:

Rogue Leader said:

rpvee said:

I'm gonna receive a lot of anger at this suggestion, but I really, really think that Shaw should be at least redubbed in ROTJ.  Anakin was supposed to be in his 40's, but he sounds and looks like the old man Shaw was, which is just realistically wrong, no matter how much nostalgia or respect for the dead one may have (which are both important, of course!).

 

I have a counter offer... Redub all of Hayden Christensians whiny-voiced dialog. =P

I know you're joking, but in all seriousness (and to the other poster who replied to me), Anakin doesn't sound like someone who is dying after vicious electrocution.  He just sounds like an old man, which he shouldn't.

Actually I am kinda serious, Hayden's voice is was too whiny and even breaks awkwardly in certain instances. The lines when he's says "You underestimate my power" in ROTS and "It's all Obi Wan's fault! He's holding me back!". It's like nails on a chalk board...

Thing is I don't think the voices need to be redubbed completely but modified at least.

Jacen said:

You could even say it was one of many reasons for Leia to say -- "I don't like this....." after they landed.

Also the latent Spidey senses tingling... =)

rpvee said:

I'm gonna receive a lot of anger at this suggestion, but I really, really think that Shaw should be at least redubbed in ROTJ.  Anakin was supposed to be in his 40's, but he sounds and looks like the old man Shaw was, which is just realistically wrong, no matter how much nostalgia or respect for the dead one may have (which are both important, of course!).

I have a counter offer... Redub all of Hayden Christensians whiny-voiced dialog. =P

TV's Frink said:

Rogue Leader said:

POLICEMAN: I'm sorry, miss, could you repeat that?  Who sexually assaulted you?

WOMAN: My shirt.

POLICEMAN: Take her away, boys.

Wouldn't it be easier to take the shirt away. ;)

Darth Lars said:

Rogue Leader said:

It'd be cool if Jabba was on a repulsor sled...

I thought his dais already had repulsors, only that it did not ride as high.

I would not mind seeing a Mara Jade/Arica inserted into the background somewhere. I would rather see her than the SE's musical routine.

It'd be cool to see it higher and more apparent if it was a repulsor. There's no slight swaying or anything so I don't know if its an actual repulsor platform. Mara Jade being inserted into the background wouldn't be needed but I agree that it'd be cool. The costume reference here Arica/MJ would be enough to reproduce it:

adywan said:

withdrawals are killing me already. Just nicked the wife's laptop just so i can get a net fix. lol

Rehab is for quitters! =D