Rhikter

Originally posted by Adywan:

"Anakin shouldn't be able to have a Padawan as he isn't yet a master and is still a Padawan himself."

Actually, he's a Jedi Knight by the time The Clone Wars takes place.

"That alone proves that there was not enough lung damage, if any at all, to warrant a life support suit. Case closed."

Okay, I'm totally confused now.  What are you arguing?  That Darth Vader should not have a life support suit in the first place?  I'm sure that's not what you're saying given how you revere the OT, but based on your last post that's how it sounds.

Originally posted by Akwat Kbrana:

 

"Also, insisting that Boba must be Jango's clone is a bit premature since AOTC:R won't be released for quite a few years."

That would also open the door, allowing for Jango's voice to say as is and for Boba's to return to its original state.

Happy Holidays everyone!

Originally posted by rcb:

"...if u change fett's voice back to the original voice, u'd have to do the same for all the clones in episodes II n III."

No, not really.  There's no reason to think that Boba in ESB isn't using some sort of voice filter a la Leia in RotJ.

I'd prefer that Boba's voice in ESB returned to the original and that Jango's voice in the PT stay the way it is.

I know that some people will say that Jango's voice should just go period, but I'd like it to stay because Jango is a completely different character from Boba with different motivations and outlooks on life, and the voice helps further that idea.  Plus Jango, like Boba, is a badass.  Over at Spill.com as part of the Let's Do This podcast, Co-Host 3000 was talking about the Boba's voice issue.  He said something to the effect of...

"Yeah, he didn't have many lines in that movie, but the ones he had were memorable lines because they were spoken by a badass.  The lines were not what made Boba Fett in that movie, it was the voice"

So I feel that, just like it was the voice and not the dialogue that made Boba memorable in ESB, it's the voice and not the dialogue that makes Jango memorable in the PT (I say PT and not AotC because I'm including the clone troopers).

Here are two posts I made earlier in the thread about the 3PO situation in case you missed them:

Originally posted by Rhikter:

"...I think that Adywan has an opportunity here to, instead of omit 3PO, do him justice.  He could do so by using audio samples from the many EU projects that Anthony Daniels has lent his voice to over the years.  This would be similar to how he added Luke's "Biggs!' dialogue in ANH:R using an audio sample from the radio drama."

 

Originally posted by Bingowings:

"Another idea that occurred to me was rather than removing Threepio from the prequels perhaps sticking him (the full Gold version) in all of them..."

"Hell, it could be pulled off very convincingly if you outsourced it to someone with green-screen experience and got an actor in a decent looking 3PO costume.  Plus, since the actor in the suit would be able to make gestures appropriate to the lines, you would have a level of control over the direction of the character and his function in the story that you would not have if you were just redubbing existing 3PO footage with sampled Anthony Daniels dialogue.  Adywan has already proven his proficiency with changing backgrounds completely, so this could be very feasible."

Originally posted by OzoneSherrif:

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Akwat Kbrana:

"...it doesn't explain the massive discrepancy vis-a-vis beautiful holographic displays all over the place in the PT, but atari dots and dinky monochrome monitors in the OT..."

I don't know what you could possibly be referencing other than the Death Star plans presented on Yavin IV in ANH. Other than that you don't have any real argument.

 

pretty much all the fighters seen in the PT have numerous advanced displays in their cockpits that ought to at least be pulled back to OT standards

Would you mind citing some specific examples?  I will re-endure the 7-8 hours of mind drilling agony that is the PT this weekend in order to see exactly what it is you're talking about.

Also, what's a good website I can use to host my findings should I choose to take some screen shots of the movies?

Originally posted by Octorox:

"Oh come on. If things could just form bubble shields around themselves why doesn't every unit have one? Why don't the stormtroopers have little transformer walkers they can deploy from cubes. OT technology is clunky and practical while PT tech is crazy science fiction stuff that doesn't seem like it could possibly be engineered."

You can't say that because a piece of technology wasn't present in the OT automatically means that it didn't exist.

In-Universe, the tech wasn't showcased simply because no one used it on screen.
In the real world it wasn't showcased either because no one thought of it, or didn't have the resources to produce the effect at the time.  When the PT came around someone said "Hey, now we have an opportunity to use this stuff, and there's no real reason why it should conflict with OT because we can just say that no one used it on screen in those films" which is a perfectly reasonable explanation.  I'll say it again: Artistic License.

Also, the abilities that you're referencing were exclusive to battle droids, more specifically battle droids in battle.  And, I don't mean minor skirmishes like those in Cloud City or on the Death Star.  I mean full fledged, planned out military campaigns with two armies going against each other.  Even if the Droidekas in the PT had been replaced with flesh and blood soldiers, technology like the bubble shield is the type of military equipment you would only bring out during a preplanned military campaign like D-Day or the Battle of Geonosis.  The only instance like this the comes up in the OT is the Battle of Hoth and, like I said before, we just don't see enough of the Snow Troopers in battle to discern whether or not they had brought technology along the lines of bubble shields with them.

I don't think you can count the Battle of Endor the campaign category because the rebels on the ground were part of a spy convoy, only enough to fit in the Tiderium, thus not constituting a full blown military campaign.  The stormtroopers that ambushed them knew that it would be many against few, and I don't think would have deemed it necessary to bring along such tech.  Of course the real life reason is that Lucasfilm just didn't put that type of stuff in there, and there is not problem with that.

You also have to think about what cultures were utilizing what tech in the PT.  In the case of the Gungans, their battle shield seemed to be a device that was culturally exclusive to them.  They are the type of culture - at least base on what was present in TPM - that forces their enemies to come to them so they can destroy them with short range weaponry.  How many Gungans do you remember seeing in the OT.  On top of that, let us not forget Nute Gunray's line "[The resistance] appears to be made up of primitives," which could indicate that the shield technology they were utilizing was on the verge of being obsolete.

EDIT: Isn't "clunky and practical" a bit of a misnomer?

Originally posted by Akwat Kbrana:

"...it doesn't explain the massive discrepancy vis-a-vis beautiful holographic displays all over the place in the PT, but atari dots and dinky monochrome monitors in the OT..."

I don't know what you could possibly be referencing other than the Death Star plans presented on Yavin IV in ANH.  Other than that you don't have any real argument.

Originally posted by Octorox:

"Okay, if the tech isn't more advanced than why can't Darth Vader climb up walls and fight with four lightsabers at once? Why can't the empire have an army of roly poly droids that can be stored in masses, deploy personal bubble shields and take out Jedi. Droids in the OT hobble or roll along. Droids in the PT can run around and attack people."

True, Vader can't do those things, but that's because both his and Grievous's bodies are based on two completely different production concepts.  Vader's prosthetics are meant to emulate natural human motion as best as possible.  It's not a matter of one is better than the other, because they are two different things that can't be lobbed into the same category together.

In regards to droids: following the birth of the Empire battle droids where deemed inferior in comparison to living breathing troops and thus abandoned.  It's not that the Empire doesn't have the ability to utilize battle droids.  They just chose not to.  Not to mention the fact that you're comparing the likes of protocol, medical and repair droids to FREAKING BATTLE DROIDS.

I just get an empty box that says "Image currently not available."

Originally posted by Bingowings:

"Sticking a sequence with a suited Vader taking on Jedi is a massive undertaking which while great playing in your head would give me nightmares if I had to try and pull it off."

Perhaps there is an existing fanfilm that features a scene like this.  One that Adywan would tinker around with and then insert into RotS, similar to the brief shot of the inside of the TIE Fighter that was lifted from Star Wars: Revelations and then added to the Battle of Yavin in ANH: R.

Also, Bingowings, your link is broken.

Originally posted by Adywan:

Bingowings said:

As for Vader's lungs however they would certainly be damaged (presumably Vader used the force to keep himself alive while he waited to be rescued).

People who are trapped in house fires may suffer from smoke inhalation independent of receiving skin burns; however, the incidence of smoke inhalation increases with the percentage of total body surface area burned.

Vader receives massive burns to almost all of his remaining body and the heat and smoke would have been much more intense than in any house fire and would have effectively written off his lungs so I have no problem with him being stuck in the black suit after such a series of injuries.

But you forget that the reason smoke inhalation is such a serious problem to lungs is that it is in an enclosed space but the lava scene in in an open space so the smoke would never have affected him enough for the life-support suit.

Adywan, go to 03:47 on this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8WM96-0exI

Originally posted by AxiaEuxine:

Also i never understood why the hell he needs a lifesupport suit when all that happened was he got burned. His lungs wouldn't have been affected. I'm going to be adding something that explains why he has to breath artificially when i get to ROTS

Ady, inhaling super-heated air (like one near hot lava) could easily damage person's lungs.

I think that the History Channel special Star Wars Tech covers this.

Originally posted by TMBTM:

“To me it's clear that the midichlorians are not the Force, they are just life formes in your blood that helps you to "feel" the Force”

I used to be okay with viewing midi-chlorianss as the “organ” that allowed you to use the force, thereby distinguishing them as two very different things, but then it was pointed out to me that if this were the case you could create an army of Jedi clones.  Now I hate midi-chlorians again.

Originally posted by Monroville:

“…and the names in the prequels sound stupid or beyond childish (Jar Jar, Padme, Naboo, Darth Maul and Sidious, COUNT DOOKU, etc)?  I mean, Lucas named a villian after a Number 2 fer chrissake!”

What are you talking about?  These names are no more ridiculous than any in the OT.  I think you’re just shrugging them off as lesser because they came from the PT and not the OT.

Originally posted by Monroville:

“Let's not forget that the reason 3P0 and R2 have personalities is BECAUSE they've never had their minds wiped!”

Actually, astromech droids are the only ones that become “eccentric” if they go without a memory wipe for so long.

Originally posted by OzoneSherrif:

“When i see this Darth Maul Grievous i'm reminded of Darth Maul staying alive after Phantom Menace and getting robotic horse legs. it's totally goofy”

What are you talking about???

Originally posted by Octorox:

“Too much seperatist technology looks MORE advanced than what's used in the OT.”

This is one that I’m really sick of hearing.  The tech in the PT is not more advanced than that of the OT.  It’s a stylized primitiveness.  Think about the era that the OT was released in.  Everything, cars especially, had a very sharp and angular quality to them. Think about how you can see a lot of the working pieces on the Y-Wing and X-Wing.

   

The PT as an art style inspired more by the Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon era; an era that predates the one in which the OT was released.  Think about how everything is so sleek and rounded and then look at the Naboo Starfighter or Bail Organa’s speeder.
         

Lastly, Farlander, please do not write such ridiculously long posts.  Either do it in increments or reread before you post to make sure there isn't stuff that you can take out but still get your point accross.

I thought about it today and there is absolutely no reason why Midi-Chlorians can't be completely omited from the PT, more specifically TPM.  Considering what we know of Qui-Gon from lines like "Do not defy the council Master, not again" it would be consistent with his Hippie-Jedi character to drag Anakin along to Coruscant simply on the basis of a hunch.

Originally posted by RoccondilRinon:

"...removing references to Naboo and calling the planet Alderaan."

This is just completely unnecessary.

I just made this post in "The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas" thread HERE

I would appreciate any comments that can be offered.  Please be sure to post your responses in the appropriate thread so as not to clutter this one.

Originally posted by Rhikter:

"After this week I will be on Christmas break from my university.  I intend to use the time to put together a packet illustrating to Adywan how 3PO could possibly still be incorporated into AotC and RotS.  I wonder, would anyone have any problem with 3PO simply being owned by the Skywalkers as opposed to being built by Anakin?  I'm looking at this option as the lesser of two evils."

After this week I will be on Christmas break from my university.  I intend to use the time to put together a packet illustrating to Adywan how 3PO could possibly still be incorporated into AotC and RotS.  I wonder, would anyone have any problem with 3PO simply being owned by the Skywalkers as opposed to being built by Anakin?  I'm looking at this option as the lesser of two evils.

Suggested reading for all those posting on this thread: The Tragical History of Doctor Faustus by Christopher Marlowe.

This is what people are talking about whenever they refer to Anakin's downfall as "Faustian."

Originally posted by TheoOdo:

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Erikstormtrooper:

"They should have shown why Obi Wan seemed to recognize it in ANH."

Is the fact that he is a Jedi not explanation enough?

That was probably the original intent, but it would have been good to give fans an "oh, that's why!" experience.
To me, the prequels should have really been nothing but one big "oh, that's why!" with some sympathetic protagonists, a single threatening antagonist and action sequences spacing them out.

That sounds to me like something that falls into the "Just because we can, doesn't mean we should" category.

Originally posted by Monroville:

"...who you think would have force sensed Luke in the first movie..."

I think that Vader was so consumed by his rage and determination to finally kill Obi-Wan that he was blinded/ignored everything else going on around him until after the job was done and he'd basked in his victory for a while.  "This will be a day long remembered.  It has seen the end of Kenobi.  It will soon see the end of the rebellion."

Originally posted by professa:

"it will work
you need to look at it from the point of view of a first time viewer

the viewer would know obi-wan isn't telling the truth anyway, what's he supposed to say 'yeah luke, i killed your dad. you must come with me to alderaan'"

I think that that is a little to much credit to give to an audience.  Especially a first time audience who would be watching the films in chronological order as Adywan intends.  The sad fact is that a lot of people are dumb.  Once they encounter that "A young Jedi named Darth Vader" point in ANH after having watched the PT, they would know that something was wrong but would not put in the extra mental effort to come to the conclusion that Obi-Wan is telling a little fib.

EDIT: I consolated this post into my previous one.

Originally posted by DarthRayne:

Rhikter said:

Originally posted by Adywan:

"So in ROTS you will not have Anakin named as Vader or even see him don the costume. The last we see of Anakin is being led away in the life support chamber after it leaves the shuttle."

Does this mean that you are not one who believes that the entire Star Wars saga is about the downfall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker?
Also, doesn't not having Anakin in the suit conflict with Obi-Wan's line: "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil..."?  How will you get around that?

 

 Yeah Ady, you may want to reconsider that one.

Perhaps the solution would be to, not so much omit, but rather downplay certain aspects in a manner similar to what the Phantom Editor did with midi-chlorians.  Regardless, this will be a difficult thing to do, especially in a way that is smooth and doesn't conflict with the pacing of the rest of the saga. "To a dark place this line of thought will take us. Great care we must take."

EDIT: I wanted to point out this article that I just read: http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2005/06/10/lucas050610.html

In it GL openly admits to not being the greatest writer in the world, in fact being a rather bad one in terms of dialogue.

I bring this up because, for all the flack that both myself and others give GL, I beleive that there is "still good in him" so to speak.  While, yes, I do believe he made some very poor choices when producing the PT, GL is, as someone said earlier and as evidenced by the article, not a stupid person.  So, instead of we the fans continuously badgering and berating the man's name to the point that one day we dishearten him to the point that he shamefully retires his mantle, we should be offering forms of constructive criticism in hopes that GL will one day retain that level of greatness we once associated him with.

Originally posted by Kurgan:

"The new The Clone Wars CGI show gives us an "ion cannon" that is a big purplish ring, something we've never seen before (or since). But I wouldn't let that EU crap effect the look of the OT, no way!"

I think that by calling elements of the EU "crap" you are acting very juevenile and ignorant.  While I will agree that some of the stories from the EU are crap, it is very unjust to ignore the number of compelling and touching tales that have been told by talented writers using the Star Wars universe as their basis.

Originally posted by Monroville:

"Well yeah ("We Break For Nobody!"), but I was saying having a scene with someone having to run the whole length of the ship just to get Dark Helmet a diet coke or something.  With the MOD SQUAD theme playing.  The Whole 5 minutes.  Just for Dark Helmet to smack him upside the head and say 'You asshole!  I wanted a Pepsi!'"

Rofl!

Originally posted by ChainsawAsh:

"I'm still of the opinion that Ady's added horns don't work well enough to merit that change.  Although, IIRC, that's when Ady was still working in HD - it may be substantially easier now that he's working in SD, though I'm all for removing the horns entirely in the second shot (or just leaving both as is, which I don't see a problem with, either)."

Ditto

Originally posted by professa:

"even if you only stick to so called g-level canon (the highest level i believe)..."

The following is from the www.wookiepedia.com article on Star Wars Canon:

Canon in the Holocron continuity database

In 2000, Lucas Licensing appointed Leland Chee to create a continuity-tracking database referred to as the Holocron continuity database. The Holocron follows the canon policy that has been in effect for years, but the capabilities of database software allow for each element of a story, rather than the stories themselves, to be classified on their own merits.

The Holocron's database includes an area for a single-letter (G, T, C, S or N) representing the level of canonicity of that element; these letters have since informally been applied to the levels of canon themselves: G-canon, T-canon, C-canon, S-canon and N-canon. As part of his work with the Holocron, Chee was responsible for the creation of this classification, and he spent the early stages developing and refining them into what they are today.

G, T, C and S together form the overall Star Wars continuity. Each ascending level typically overrides the lower ones; for example, Boba Fett's back story was radically altered with the release of Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, forcing the retcon of older source material to fall in line with the new G-canon back story. However, this is not always absolute, and the resolution of all contradictions are handled on a case-by-case basis.

• G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and anything directly provided to Lucas Licensing by Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs are also considered G-canon (when they're not in conflict with the movie).^[1]

• T-canon^[2], or Television Canon^[3], refers to the canon level comprising the feature film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series.^[4][5] Its precedence over C-Level canon was confirmed by Chee^[6].

• C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be;^[7] they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.

• S-canon is Secondary Canon; the materials are available to be used or ignored as needed by current authors. This includes mostly older works, such as much of the Marvel Star Wars comics, that predate a consistent effort to maintain continuity; it also contains certain elements of a few otherwise N-canon stories, and other things that "may not fit just right." Many formerly S-canon elements have been elevated to C-canon through their inclusion in more recent works by continuity-minded authors, while many other older works (such as The Han Solo Adventures) were accounted for in continuity from the start despite their age, and thus were always C-canon.

• N is Non-Canon. What-if stories (such as stories published under the Infinities label) and anything else directly and irreconcilably contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm. Information cut from canon, deleted scenes, or from canceled Star Wars works falls into this category as well, unless another canonical work references it and it is declared canon.

Originally posted by Adywan:

"So in ROTS you will not have Anakin named as Vader or even see him don the costume. The last we see of Anakin is being led away in the life support chamber after it leaves the shuttle."

Does this mean that you are not one who believes that the entire Star Wars saga is about the downfall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker?
Also, doesn't not having Anakin in the suit conflict with Obi-Wan's line: "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil..."?  How will you get around that?

Originally posted by Ripplin:

"Really? I thought the movie was the basically the first episode[s] of the series. I guess not. Maybe I should look into this series if you like it... I haven't watched a second of it yet."

The movie is actually the first three episodes of the series combined into a feature length piece, like the Family Guy DVD Stewie Griffin: The Untold Story.  Lucas did not decide to release them as a feature film until very close to the premiere date of the series.  And, yes, The Clone Wars does just about everything better than the PT.  It fleshes out things such as the relationships between the Jedi and the clone troopers - making their eventual betrayal all the more resonant - and even does General Grieveous justice.  Watch it.

Originally posted by Johnny Ringo:

You mean like in the ROTS end credit music?

I'm not exactly sure what your question is.

Originally posted by Erikstormtrooper:

"They should have shown why Obi Wan seemed to recognize it in ANH."

Is the fact that he is a Jedi not explanation enough?

Originally posted by ben_danger:

"could the same be done with TPM perhaps? with the film opening with the naboo cruiser running the blockade?"

 

Originally posted by will:

"This is how my edit of TPM starts, mirroring the capture if leia in ANH."

This sounds like a very interesting idea.  I'd like to see how it could work.  I'm not too keen on using flashbacks though since it would not be consistent with the way the rest of the saga is structured.  But, at the same time the only way to adequately supplement that would be to add in new scenes that fit chronologically with the rest of the film. *Sigh* So troublesome.