Rhikter

I am so, so tempted to get in on the Star Trek talk, but will refrain since it's not what this thread is for.

Bingowings said:

Yes and no, Lucas came up with the basic story for all the films (even though he pinched them from all over the place) he later gave them to other writers to do later draughts eg, Leigh Brackett for ESB (but he largely ditched everything she did still giving her the screenwriting credit). He never hid the fact that other people worked on the screenplays for the OT, in fact he possibly took less credit than he could legitimately claim.

With the PT he took much of the credit/blame for the screenplays when many hidden hands also worked on them.

Okay, I'm on the same page now.

Bingowings said:

If anything it's the PT that have hidden or ghost writers, Carrie Fisher and Tom Stoppard apparently contributed to the PT.

The scriptwriting credits for the OT if anything point the opposite way giving him less credit than he could claim (though he didn't write the novelisation credited to him that was Alan Dean Foster).

I'm a little confused.  You understand that I'm saying GL had someone come in and gussy-up his early ESB and RotJ drafts, right?

EyeShotFirst said:

Plus an Ion Cannon (even a shiney one) would be dulled up by the harsh cold and the snow. The shiney one does look great and I would support seeing one in the space battle in ROTJ on one of the ships. But for Hoth I would say leave the Ion Cannon alone.

Yeah, I don't think the rebels get brand new equipment very often. Lol!

Bingowings said:

At no point do I stop believing in the characters in ANH and ESB and a lot of that came from very good casting (Lucas himself has admitted to not really being an actors director).

Even in ROTJ most of the time the original cast and Ian McDiarmid manage to pull it off even without help from the directors (Marquand and Lucas by most accounts).

I'm pretty sure GL had ESB and RotJ ghost-written.

Vaderisnothayden said:

It's like making Chewie and Yoda best buds. It makes the universe smaller. Lucas made the status of the universe at the end of ROTS match ANH too much, allowing little room for change over 20 years. 3PO and R2 are with the same captain on the same ship and the Death Star is already well on its way and Tarkin is already hanging out with Vader. It's like 5 minutes pass between ROTS and ANH.

Okay, I understand what you're saying now.  It still doesn't make me feel one way or the other about Tarkin's presence though.  If anything, it makes me feel like all this energy should be spent on issues that are greater offenders, like Chewie and Yoda.

Yes it is laid out for you obviously. Here's Tarkin already implied to be at the center of things and hanging out with Vader 20 years before ANH, as if nothing developed in all that time.

If it is implied, it's a very light implication.  One might say "circumstantial evidence" at best.  I just don't see how you can get all this big stuff from such a small amount of screen time.

We all know he didn't just happen to take a stroll. He was put there for a reason, to make the ROTS-end situation match up with ANH. So yes, matching it up like that does imply he "hung around" for the next 20 years.

Do you think you'd feel that way if you didn't know anything about Star Wars beyond there being 6 films, and you'd only watched them in chronological order?  I think this is an instance in which having defined, behind the scenes knowledge of the Star Wars saga and GL's thought process, is actually a hindrance. I think you're reading too much into it.

[A bunch of stuff about the Death Star]

No need to defend your opinions on the Death Star to me.  I think you and I are on the same page there.

Jeez, I wish this whole thread hadn't become about Tarkin. I started it to find out info about stuff that had nothing to do with Tarkin.

I have no problem with this moving to a new thread if everyone else is okay with it.

Vaderisnothayden said:

I am wondering if we saw the same film?

This is what I remember,

Which I think looks absolutely awful. I couldn't find a larger resolution image than this one, but in higher resolution he looks even more awful than this. He just looks fake, even more so when the shot is in motion.

*Considering this* . . . *Considering this* . . .
No, I still disagree.  I think it makes sense for him to have more definition to his body if he's 20 years younger than his ANH appearance.  And, as far as the make-up is concerned; yeah, in that promotional still it looks pretty awful, but in motion in that particular scene from RotS I just don't notice it.

Not to say I think it looks like Peter Cushing.  I just doesn't look to me like this person on screen couldn't, in 20 years, look like Peter Cushing's Tarkin.  It doesn't jump out at me and scream "WRONG!"

Nor do I think Ewan was all that good as Kenobi. I think people put his performance on a pedestal because it was way better than Hayden's. I don't think he makes a great connection with the viewer, unlike Guinness. And he came off totally false (like Hayden and Natalie) in AOTC, while in ROTS he usually wasn't much to cheer about either. He was a bit more alive in TPM, but nothing special. A lot of the time his performance was pretty bland. If his performance had been all that good, the prequels would have been better than they were. As it is, he had his moments, but his work was often mediocre and sometimes pretty bad.

I don't deny that there are some pretty bad performances in the PT, but why all the actor bashing, especially on performers who have proven themselves exceptional in work outside of Star Wars (i.e. not Hayden)?  If anything what we should be saying is "Gosh, it's such a shame that GL didn't give Ewan the resources he needed to make his performance really shine."

HOORAY FOR CIVILIZED DEBATE!!!!!

Darth Venal said:

The irony there is that Ewan McGregor said he was trying not to really impersonate Guinness too much "as it interferes with the acting process".

Being an actor myself, I can attest to the truthfulness of this statement.  If you feel like you're doing an impersonation of someone, it prevents you from getting to the "truth" of your character, which is something I suspect Ewan, and many other PT performers, would have been able to do were it not for Lucas:

Taken from the Wookiepedia article on Fan criticism of George Lucas:

Harrison Ford, who played Han Solo in the original films, said in an interview "I think George [Lucas] likes people. I think George is a kind, warm-hearted person, but he can be a little… impatient with the nature of acting, that need to work until you find something."

Bingowings said:

McGregor argued that it would be pointless to try and do an impression of Sir Alec because people don't sound the same when they are young, while that is true there is still a signature in the voice that never changes and if he was trying to attempt that it failed.

That is so true.  I just saw Surrogates last night, and there is a scene in which Bruce Willis is meeting in an office with an actor playing a youthful looking surrogate being controlled by James Cromwell's character.  I was very impressed by how well the actor managed to mimic Cromwell's speech patterns and intonations.  Even though the general tone of his voice was not the same, I was convinced that this guy could  have been James Cromwell in his mid 20s.

EyeShotFirst said:

Rhikter said:

shanerjedi said:

IMHO, it would be better to just take him out altogether as it's just another fan service moment...

And, this is a problem why?

Cause he looks like Peter Cushing fell into to a vat of hot oil and gained weight. It was nice but they should never add a character when the actor who played them died. IN ANY FILM. At least Alec Guiness was still alive when Ewan McGregor took over the role.

I recently made these posts in the "explanations" about Vader thread.

Rhikter said:

I personally don't have any problem with Tarkin's appearance in RotS.  I felt like they successfully managed to portray him as younger, and even more built.

Yeah, that portrait shot of Wayne Pygram in his Tarkin make-up is pretty messy, but in RotS, since he's only in a wide shot, all I see is a Tarkin that's 20 years younger with broad shoulders and a chiseled jaw.

*Link to original post*

Rhikter said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

Nor is Tarkin's appearance merely an easter egg like those things you mentioned..

You're right, I could have described it better.  Easter Egg is not the right term.  It is similar to an Easter Egg in that, yes, it is fan service.  However, it's harmless fan services as opposed to obtrusive fan service (EX: Boba Fett in AotC, Chewbacca in RotS, or the Death Star in the PT).

*Link to original post*

Vaderisnothayden said:

It most definitely does detract. It increases the ridiculous end of ROTS = start of ANH factor, making the universe yet smaller.

I don't think I understand what you mean by this.

So nothing changes in 20 years. Tarkin goes with the Death Star...

I think that's an interpretation you have to choose to make.  It's not like it's laid out in front of you waving a Mr. Obvious cap.  You can't say that, just because Tarkin took a brief stroll across a Star Destroyer's bridge whilst overseeing the Death Star's construction one afternoon, that he hung around for an extra 20 years after that.

...which should never have been in the prequels.

Yeah, I'm forced to agree.

Nor is Tarkin's appearance merely an easter egg like those things you mentioned..

You're right, I could have described it better.  Easter Egg is not the right term.  It is similar to an Easter Egg in that, yes, it is fan service.  However, it's harmless fan services as opposed to obtrusive fan service (EX: Boba Fett in AotC, Chewbacca in RotS, or the Death Star in the PT).

shanerjedi said:

IMHO, it would be better to just take him out altogether as it's just another fan service moment...

And, this is a problem why?

Bingowings said:

Those aren't my words, Ghost was asking that question.

My bad, I fixed it.

cap said:

Do we have an estimated delivery date more precise than “sometime in 2010”?  Are we talking early 2010, mid 2010, or late 2010?

Say Adywan, do you have any friends/relatives who dabble in film making/editing; anyone who might be interesting in putting together some web-docs to tide people over and minimize the amount of release date questions?  Just a thought.

doubleofive said:

I think the sky would be more unlimited if Ady could get all the original elements to eliminate the transparency present everywhere.

I don't know what those are.

Vaderisnothayden said:

Putting Tarkin in ROTS was dumb.

I never viewed it as dumb nor smart. It's more along the lines of an Easter egg, like the ETs in TPM or the X-Wing and TIEs in AotC.  Sure, it doesn't really add anything to the overall quality of the film, but it doesn't detract either.  It's just an appreciative nod to what's come before.

vaderios said:

That's very good.  It made me cringe the first time I looked at it.  I just imaged myself in Anakin's position and your version inspired more dread in me than the original.

vaderios said:

I hope that gives you and answer of how vader should see things. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyVAp0tOk5A&feature=channel_page

Lol! AVGN FTW!

Tobar said:

Well I know Kyle Newman the director of Fanboys is a fan of Revisited and he sent a copy to Dave Filoni...

Did you read this in an article/interview/forum thread/etc?  If so, can you provide a link?

shanerjedi said:

And there's some public comments by Muren himself.

. . . I don't know who that is. :/
And, it's late where I am, so I don't think I'll be going about looking the guy up right now.  <---- (Laziness)

Ziz said:

Not Star Wars, but...

http://fanedit.org/385/

Scroll down to review number 30.

Wow, cool.  Assuming it's real - which I am, cause I'm naive like that - very cool!

Ghost said:

Also, do you think it would work to put the Luke on Dagobah scenes at the beginning of the movie.  It would make the whole Luke a master Jedi thing more believable.

I must respectfully disagree.

Come RotJ, the last time we saw Luke, he was licking his wounds, so to speak, on the medical frigate at the end of ESB.  By starving the audience of Luke's appearance for so long in the begging of the movie and teasing them with dialogue about him spoken by other characters, you build anticipation.  People will be wondering, "Oh, man where's Luke?  I wanna see Luke?  Why isn't Luke here?" It makes the sudden appearance of this wiser, stronger, more mature Luke Skywalker/Jedi Knight - who is nothing like the beaten and bruised teen from the end of ESB - all the more powerful.

I know a lot of people here prefer to ignore the EU, but just for kicks . . .

From the Wookiepedia article on the Auqualish:

In one of A New Hope's best known continuity errors, Ponda Baba's arm has fin-like hands when still attached, but is hairy and clawed in the close-up shots of the severed arm on the floor. This inspired the writers at West End Games to develop the Aquala and Quara types of Aqualish. Star Wars: The Complete Visual Dictionary retconned the error by creating a new character, Teak Sidbam, said to be sometimes mistaken for Baba.

C3PX said:

...I chalked it up to typical bad CG, when in reality it is was bad makeup job.

I personally don't have any problem with Tarkin's appearance in RotS.  I felt like they successfully managed to portray him as younger, and even more built.

Yeah, that portrait shot of Wayne Pygram in his Tarkin make-up is pretty messy, but in RotS, since he's only in a wide shot, all I see is a Tarkin that's 20 years younger with broad shoulders and a chiseled jaw.

Test

EDIT:  Sorry, was trying to figure out why my the Time Stamps on my posts were wrong.  Fixed it though.  : D

EDIT 2:  And, since I'm already in the middle of a useless post, figured I'd mention that I just ordered a paperback copy of "Shadows of the Empire."  If you haven't read it already I suggest you do.  It's great and really does feel like the "missing" OT film.

Random thought:  Forgive me if someone has already thought of this, but we should somehow put together a contest to see who can create the best re-write of the PT scripts.

shanerjedi said:

I think you'd be surprised how many ILMers and fx artists are fans of this project and others of its kind. :D

I've often wondered if any in-industry type folk participated or followed fan edits.  Are you saying you know of proof that supports this suspicion?

Bingowings said: 

Ideally the pit should be more rocky (so sand doesn't fall in it as much) and when the barge first turns up it would be great if the Sarlacc wasn't there and was enticed to the surface by the sound of the party arriving.

While I prefer the Sarlac as is, I'm very interested to see where this idea goes.  More power to ya!

Been lurking around for a few weeks.  Just wanted to say I've enjoyed a lot of what I've been seeing/reading, despite having not posted in a while.

(Behold the fantastical powers of copy/paste ^^^^^)

Been lurking around for a few weeks.  Just wanted to say I've enjoyed a lot of what I've been seeing/reading, despite having not posted in a while.

(Behold the fantastical powers of copy/paste ^^^^^)

Been lurking around for a few weeks.  Just wanted to say I've enjoyed a lot of what I've been seeing/reading, despite having not posted in a while.