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Rebel Scumb

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21-Mar-2003
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18-Dec-2005
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618

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Post
#158650
Topic
Episode 3: Fan Editing Ideas Discussion
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158650/action/topic#158650
Time
Originally posted by: AbsoluteDestiny
You could actually remove "Vader" from ROTS entirely.

If you watched the films like this, it would appear that Obi Wan killed Anakin for being tempted to the dark side and that Obi Wan was lying to Luke to hide this dishonourable death.


But you're forgetting that Obi-wan tells Luke that Vader was his apprentice, and even if the audience thought he was lying, Vader later confirms this when speaking to and about Obi-wan.

Obi-wan had no other apprentices, and since we'll have seen anakin go to the darkside in ep3 and he's obi-wan's apprentice its still 100% clear who Vader is.


Lucas should of had Obi-wan have two apprentices throughout the PT. one a red herring for Vader, and then anakin would of fought HIM on mustafar, they both fall in the lava, and then The emperor saves Vader, but we are made to assume that it is the other apprentice and only Obi-wan, Vader, palpatine and yoda know the truth


The only way the surprise could be preserved is if you tell both Anakin's and Luke's stories simultaneously over the course of three movies instead of six, through a series of flashbacks and flash-forwards (i.e. - The Godfather II). How else could you do it?


yeah exactly.

The other way is to watch ANH, ESB, and rotj up till the end of the dagobah stuff, then watch the PT, then the end of Jedi from the rebel meeting forward.
Post
#158612
Topic
Idea: Sifo Dyas removal from AOTC?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158612/action/topic#158612
Time
Originally posted by: Commander Courage
Here's something out of left field I thought up you might find interesting:

LAMA SU: Please tell your Master Qui-Gon Jinn that we have every confidence his order will be met on time and in full.
OBI-WAN: I'm sorry? Master - ?
LAMA SU: Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn. He's still a leading member of the Jedi Council, is he not?
OBI-WAN: Master Jinn was killed almost ten years ago.
LAMA SU: Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. But I'm sure he would have been proud of the army we've built for him.


OBI-WAN: Then you must know Master Qui-Gon Jinn?
JANGO FETT: Master who?
OBI-WAN: Qui-Gon Jinn. Is he not the Jedi who hired you for this job?
JANGO FETT: Never heard of him.
OBI-WAN: Curious.

OBI-WAN: They say [cut]a[cut] Master Qui-Gon placed the order for a clone army at the request of the Senate almost ten years ago. Did the Council ever authorize the
creation of a clone army? (With maybe another line about how Qui-Gon couldn't have or whatever.)

Though there wouldn't be any resolution, it might be interesting to go that route. If you had to explain it, it could be assumed Dooku ordered the clones in his deceased apprentice's name.


I actually tried doing that, but the problem is here are only a handful of times when Obi-wan says the name Quigon. And when I tried inserting those in to the sifodyas dialogue it was immensely noticeable due to different tone and inflection in Ewan's voice. A noble idea though CC but I haven't found a way yet to practically pull it off.

The other option would be if Darth Maul was attributed with ordering the clones, since the jedi would not actually know his name.

Or....


If Lama Su said "Please tell THE EMPEROR, that his order will be met, on time"

"I'm sorry..."

"The emperor of the galaxy"

Obi-wan looks perplexed

etc etc.

Would take some doing but would be interesting. a sure fire way that the audence knows exactly who they're talking about but the jedi don't look as dumb
Post
#158250
Topic
Idea: Sifo Dyas removal from AOTC?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158250/action/topic#158250
Time
Originally posted by: TheDemonHunter
There's no need to resolve the matter of Master Sifo Dyas. Last time I checked, the Sith are all about deception, mystery, and misinformation. I like the idea that the Jedi can't get to the bottom of that one and that we have no answers. Besides, it was inferred, at least from my point of view, that Dooku/Tyrannus was partly responsible for the misdirection when Jango Fett named Tyrannus as his recruiter.

Give me mysteries. It doesn't all have to be spoon-fed to us. Let us be just as much in the dark about the whole truth as the Jedi and the Senate were.



I agree that the jedi shouldn;t know, but the audience should have some indication. And in order to cut out the references to sifodyas, we have to cut out the part where Jango says he was hired by Tyrannus. Which is the only reference to that name other then in the final scene with sidious, so then we DON'T know that dooku was involved with the ordering of the clones.
Post
#158114
Topic
Idea: Sifo Dyas removal from AOTC?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158114/action/topic#158114
Time
well sort of, but the main thing Is I'm just curious if there is a way editorially to remove the name sifodyas and still have the film make sense. attribute the ordering of the clones to someone else.

Obviously the Kaminions could be redubed or subtitled. but obi-wan, jango and yoda/mace all discuss the ordering of the clone army. thats where it gets tricky.
Post
#157773
Topic
Idea: Sifo Dyas removal from AOTC?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157773/action/topic#157773
Time
Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Originally posted by: Nanner Split
It has no point in the plot. They mention Sifo Dyas, then they just kinda forget about him later in the movie.

And so what? What are you expecting when you go watch a movie? To know everything on every details? Not me.
I like when a movie has a part of mystery. And when you look closer about all the Star Wars stuff, you'll see that we all know names of some characters or vehicles, and those names have never been mentioned in the movies. I like that. Not you?

...and I must say that I love the "Sifo Dyas" name. It sounds very cool to me...

there's a big difference between mysterious and vague. Complex and complicated.

we aren't talking about the name of a background droid in mos eisley, this is the central plot point of AotC and in many ways one of the most pivotal moments in the PT


2001 did it. I supopse Kubrick failed? And with 2001, you are left guessing a whole hell of a lot of things that you decide on your own unless you read the book which flat out tells you what happens.


comparing 2001 to SW is like comparing yellow submarine to indiana jones. They're completely differnet movies told in a completely different style.

Lucas often lauds that SW is silent movies that can be told with visuals and music, this is never less true then with AotC. that movie is all talk and doesnt make any sense without the dialogue (and not even wtih the dialogue for that matter)

ESB on the other hand only really requires the one line "I am your father"

MY OPINION WAS THAT IT WAS COUNT DOOKU WHO WOULD HAVE THE FUNDING TO INITIATE THE CREATION OF THE CLONES. HE WOULD'VE HAD ACCESS TO THE LIBRARY FILES/STAR CHARTS TO ERASE ALL MENTION OF KAMINO. TO ME THIS MAKES THE MOST SENSE, AND I LIKE MANY OF MY FRIENDS CAME UP WITH THAT OPINION JUST BY WATCHING THE MOVIE. YES, WE COULD BE WRONG, BUT THAT'S WHAT MAKES A GOOD MYSTERY.


that makes sense, however according to LOE, the clones were already ordered before Dooku ever became involved with the sith.

WHILE WE'RE ON THE POINT OF MYSTERIES WHAT THE HELL WAS AURRA SING DOING AT THE BOONTA EVE RACE ??? WE ONLY KNEW BOBA FETT WAS A BOUNTY HUNTER UNTIL THE PT.


no we saw lots of bounty hunters in esb and rotj. not to mention bountyhunters are a real world concept. further more there is nothing in tpm specifying she is a bountyhunter. she's just one of many weird looking extras in the film.

Post
#157772
Topic
Idea: Sifo Dyas removal from AOTC?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157772/action/topic#157772
Time
Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Originally posted by: Rebel Scumb
Has anyone sussed out a way to effectively eliminate any reference to him in AotC and still maintain a logical plot?

Why? What is so "illogical" with the Sifo Dyas plot?


its a lame redherring which utlilizes a character we've never seen or heard of before, and is so vague that there isn't even agreement within Lucas' own people whether it was Dooku or sidious who ordered the clones.

they should of used quigon's name, because he;s a character the audience knows, so when Obi-wan says "he was killed before that" he would be talking about an event we actually saw.

Or even darthmaul, since the jedi never learned his name. He ordered the clones, but was killed before jango was hired, so tyrannus handled that.

Lucas decided not to include it in ROTS, in order to focus more on Anakin's story, and had it explained in Labyrinth of Evil. Besides, it was best, IMHO, to leave it the mystery it is in the films. You know someone named Sifoo-Dias ordered the clones, but you know little about his him. So, you are left guessing if it was really Sifo-Dias, whether Dooku/Palpatine forced Sifo-Dias to do it before they killed him, etc.


the LOA explanation is lame and doesn;'t make a lick of sense under scrutiny. It presupposes that sifodyas with good intentions and no cohersing ordered the clones, to be used for good. so what was sidious' grand plan then? if this random event had not happened how would he have formed the empire and wiped out the jedi? the entire galactic war erupts because of a random jedi we never saw who died before TPM? thats lame

and contrary to what was the plan up until LOA was published.
Post
#157078
Topic
Idea: MY phantom edit
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157078/action/topic#157078
Time
You mean when Vader and the Emperor were talking about bringing in young Skywalker, they both knew that he would have to kill one of them? That does not track.


Well according to Lucas thats the idea. Each being evil knows the other cannot be trusted, but they also need each other in the mean time. Each is banking on the fact that they will come out on top, and trying use the other's desire to do the same to their advantage.

or at the very least you could say that Vader does not know, but I don't think thats nessesary. Vader assumes he can get luke to kill the emperor, the emperor assumes he can get Luke to kill vader
Post
#156965
Topic
LOST
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/156965/action/topic#156965
Time
I was hoping that it was claire that killed Shannon, that would of beefed up her character a lot

Kate is indeed nothing but eye candy now. her contributions this season have been to crawl through a vent at a convient camera angle, and to take a shower. Its too bad EL is a good actress, the kate character has kind of been hit and miss from about halfway through season1. I don't really care what she did but they've tried to milk that card for more then its worth.

This show needs to get its footing again, Last week was solid and they need to keep that up for the rest of the season because the first 6 were very uneven. Needs to get back its character driven strength and the way it use to juggle the characters so easily, because thats what is hurting the show the most, too many characters at the moment.