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Rebel Scumb

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21-Mar-2003
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18-Dec-2005
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Post
#33612
Topic
General announcement re 2004 OT DVDs: please read
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33612/action/topic#33612
Time
that as well.

All I'm trying to say is that this release has nothing to do with either the ultimate edition or the original version. Lucas was always clear about when he planned to focus his attention on DVDs and that was whent he PT was done.

All this really proves is that LFL does not completely ignore audience demand (which should give us hope) it doesn't hurt us in anyway to have this release, and has brought a lot of traffic/attention our way. It sucks that it is not the version we desired, but we wouldn't be getting that in 2004 anyways. It will take a long time to clean up and digitize the OV, and there was never any intention to do it at this time anyways. What i'm getting at is to look at this release as an "at all" not an "instead of". This was not INSTEAD of the classics. Lucas is not screwing us by releasing these SE dvds, if your going to be frustrated be frustrated that he is NOT releasing the OVs. Its what he's not doing, not what he is doing that is the problem.

and from what I've heard this release was more of a Jim Ward Lucas Market idea then a George Lucas idea. GL will do the dvds his way in a couple of years, whether they include the version we want as well remains to be seen.
Post
#33603
Topic
evilest men of earth
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33603/action/topic#33603
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
I THINK WE'VE ALREADY DECLARED GL TO NOT BE ELIGIBLE.


Agreed. Lets not turn this place into the AICN talkback just because we are frustrated. The tuesday announcment gave us a much needed boost in petition signatures and that is a good sign.

GL may be at times misguided, but he is by no means evil.
Post
#33601
Topic
evilest men of earth
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33601/action/topic#33601
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
BUSH HAS BEEN NOMINATED FOR THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE.


Then the NPP is not worth a damn! Its a piece of shit if they'd give it to Bush. Lets organize a get together once Bush is out of office, we'll bust into his house and liberate that poor misawarded prize and give it to Noam Chompsky or Tim Robbins instead.
Post
#33600
Topic
Buy or not to buy. That is the question.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33600/action/topic#33600
Time
If I buy this version it will be for the extras, so in all likely hood I'll jsut rent/borrow it.

Regardless of whether the originals get released, I'm going to wait for the 2007 ultimate edition. If I have to have a special edition, I at least want the complete one.



Patrick.R, you have the laserdiscs, and you mentioned editing the SE (something I've thought about doing in the future as well) do you have the equipment to copy the laserdiscs right now? Or is this something your looking at for the future?
Post
#33599
Topic
General announcement re 2004 OT DVDs: please read
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33599/action/topic#33599
Time

With all this special edition DVD hoopla, I want to remind everyone to keep one thing in mind.

Lucas is not screwing us with this release.

This release was not suppose to happen, GL has said many times that he did not want to do DVDs for any of the movies until Episode 3 was done.

Due to fan pressure he is releasing this set now. But this is not the “real” dvd set. If you are dissappointed with this set (and I don;'t blame you) don’t buy it, there is another much better one on its way for 2007.

As for it not being the original versions, I want them too, and I would of loved if that was what they were releasing in Sept 2004, from a marketing stand point it would of made a lot more sense, but please bare in mind that there was not suppose to be a sept 2004 release at all. This was not the original plan, but something that is being thrown together only from a couple months ago. Ift eh OV OT were to come out, it would not be now anyways.

So if your frustrated with LFL for not releasing the original versions, thats cool, but in the grand scheme of things it has nothing to do with this release.

Post
#33589
Topic
George Lucas' explanation why the OT is obsolete to him
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33589/action/topic#33589
Time
Quote
Many people regard A New Hope as one of the classic SW films. Lucas wrote and directed that.


I agree. I'm talking baout how HE regards them.

Quote
Also, 20th Century Fox didn't have a whole lot of influence in the production. One reason for that is because Lucas made the film outside of Hollywood, so the studio could adopt an "out of sight, out of mind" approach regarding the film. Also, Lucas's biggest ally was Alan Ladd, jr, who could go to bat for Lucas anytime the production was threatened. Basically, Lucas made ANH more or less the way he wanted to (except for the effects and scale of everything). The studio were a bunch of jerks to him, but they didn't screw up the film as much as they could've.


I've still read interviews with him where he expressed frustration with the studio who wanted him to add in the Toshi station scene because they hated that the main hero didn't appear until almost 25 min into the movie. And I believe they wanted to see Han a lot earlier as well. There were some minor changes that GL had to obey, but once SW went through the roof he never had to listen to them again.


Quote
You're wrong. Lucas wrote all the drafts of ANH


I never said he didn't.

Quote
and was satisfied enough with the shooting draft to actually shoot it.


I know. Again, I never said he wasn't.

Quote
If there are stylistic differences between all the drafts (and I know there are), it's because Lucas changed revised the story and it's tone with each additional draft.


I agree. But never the less TPM is a lot closer to his first versions of SW then ANH. I'm not saying its better, I'm just saying that stylistically its closer to what he originally invisioned.

Quote
The tone of the drafts weren't different because of technological constraints.


Well GL contradicts himself so much in interviews its hard to tell. In some he says he always wanted to do the PT but had to wait for the technology to catch up. In others he says he never planned to do the PT and the episode numbers are just a little wink to old serial movies. In others he says that he wrote the whole saga, but realized that ANH would be the easiest/cheepiest/most commercial viable to do so he started with that one.

In any event, its pretty clear (at least IMHO) that he likes the pT a lot more then the OT, and whatever audiences may think this is how he wants the movies to be, and if the OT had not yet been made, and he was making it now with the technology/money/atonomy that he enjoys now, the OT would be a very different trio of movies and much more in the vein of the prequels.

Personally I enjoy GLs comperimised vision a lot more then his uncomprimised one, but thats just me.

Quote
Lucas wrote a scene in one of the original drafts depicting Anakin disappearing into a broom closet with some girl and when he came out, he was straightening his shirt, tucking it in, etc. I haven't seen that in the prequels yet!!


LOL no. Certainly his sensibilities have changed quite a bit, Greedo shooting first is the best example of this. A younger man would probably find it a lot cooler that Han would ice greedo the way he did, but I find even myself at the tender age of 25 becoming more sensitive to violence in movies, and I have no trouble imagining that GL has as well. As for Anakins sexual exploits. It would of been a different saga thats for sure, not nessesarily better, just different.

But then it was GL who wanted Indiana Jones to be a womanizer as well, with a pent house in Manhattan where he seduced his conquests. Spielberg quashed the idea, but GL says that since nothing in the movies says he doesn't have the penthouse, he always assumes that offscreen Indy is a getting a lot of action in Manhattan

Post
#33511
Topic
Digital Bits thoughts?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33511/action/topic#33511
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV
COULD IT BE THAT WE'RE GETTING OLDER ??? THE OT WAS A CRUTIAL PART OF OUR COLLECTIVE CHILDHOODS, AND NOW WE'VE GROWN UP. WE STILL LOOK FOR THE MAGIC THAT WAS EVER PRESENT WHEN WE WATCHED THE OT, BUT THE "NEW" KIDS WATCHING THE SE CAN'T STAND TO WATCH THE OT IN ALL OF ITS MATTE LINED GLORY. WASN'T SW FOR KIDS ??? I STILL WANT TO BE LIKE PETER PAN AND NEVER GROW UP, BECAUSE IF I DO I MAY NEVER FIND THAT OT MAGIC AGAIN.




I 've never subscribed to this theory because I didn't get into SW until I was like 14 or 15. Plus i like TPM and I saw that when I was 20.

ANd I use to like ROTJ more then ANH but now I can see the faults of ROTJ and the brilliance of ANH as my taste have matured.

My dad is a good example as well because he loves the OT and he was 27 when ANH came out.

Most importantly though, as my knowledge of filmmaking has expanded, I can see that ANH and ESB are just really really well crafted films, told with tight pacing and solid filmmaking bravado. The reason I don;t like AOTC is because I consider the writing, and editing to be shabby. I think production values aside its one of the most problematic films I've ever seen, rife with errors left right and center.

Maybe If I was a kid I would like them all equally, but I'm not, and kids like teletubies so who cares what they think.
Post
#33509
Topic
Digital Bits thoughts?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33509/action/topic#33509
Time
Quote
I really never thought that this topic would be so polarized. I was always of the opinion that all fans would want the original if for no other reason than to be able to compare it to the SE. But there actually seems to be more that either don't want it or don't give a rat's ass. It gets a bit disgusting to see how ignorant some people can be about film history and how ignorant they can be about having both versions being made available. Hey, if they don't want it, don't buy it. It's what I'm doing with these DVDs come September.


Yeah, its not like we're saying "NO Special editions! You must only have the originals!"

Its one thing if people don't want the originals, and prefer the SEs, thats fine. They don't have to buy them. But the fact that they don't want us to have them astounds me.

Post
#33506
Topic
Read these two articles please...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33506/action/topic#33506
Time
Look at it this way Idiot Basher.

When GL makes the Ultimate editions, its likely he will replace the emperor in ESB with Ian McDiarmid. I think this is a great idea, for continuity and because IM has really brought to life the character of Palpatine. It would be silly not to change this (and easy to do as well).

However, there is another actor (CLive revill) who has been in ESB for over 25 years. SO is it right to suddenly cut him out of the movie after all this time?

For that matter what if they replaced Anakin as he's dying or when he is a ghost with Hayden christiensen? The actor who played old anakin (Sebestain shaw) passed away years ago, wouldn;t that be sort of pissing on his grave?

Or replacing puppet Yoda in ESB and ROTJ with digital Yoda.

All these changes make sense when thinking of the saga as one big six part epic, but they also are insulting to the people who did fine work in the first place and for almost 30 years have been able to say they were part of the SW phenomenon.

BUT:

If you continue to make the original versions available, then none of this is an issue. They could replace every scene of OBI-wan in the oT with Ewan McGregor in aging make-up if they wanted to, and it would be no insult to Alec Guiness' memory, because his original contribution would still be perserved.

And the same is true for all those FX artist who worked for years to create those FX. Nobody is saying their can't be an upgrade, but just keep the originals around as well as a record of what done back in 1977.

Do you follow?
Post
#33504
Topic
George Lucas' explanation why the OT is obsolete to him
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33504/action/topic#33504
Time
Quote
I believe he dislikes them as well. But I just don't understand why.


I think there are a lot of factors. I think because his wife edited some of them, because he fought with Gary Kurtz a lot (and he contributed a lot to the success of ANH and especially ESB), because did not direct two of them, because he didn;'t have enough money to do everything the way he likes, because the studio made him change things in ANH, and because they were very hard to make.

When you read old drafts of SW, they are a lot more like the PT then the OT in style and content. I think GL is very bitter aboput having to comprimise things and is so caught up in this that he's blinded himself to the fact that sometimes comprimising due to budgets and technological limitations actually lead you to a better end product. Nessesity is the mother of invention and artist thrive on oppressive limitations, on adversity. I think GL is so caught up what he couldn't do, that he's missed completely what he did do, which was create three classic films.

Whatever GL set out to do with SW is irrelevant, its what he did do thats important. Intent means nothing, results mean everything.


Quote
I don't want him to change his mind and say, "Gee, now that you've whined long enough, I finally understand that the OT is better and I've now adopted your point of view and ditched the archive editions. I'll even call back the SE and scrap it, only to release solely the OT for you guys." I'd never want it that way. I want the SE and I even want to see the AE. His view on things matters to me, regardless of me agreeing with it or not. I just wish, that someday he'll respect my point of view as much as I do respect his and give us the OT on DVD and saying "I don't agree with you at all, but I respect your feelings for the OT, since your lasting passion, money and support for the OT in the beginning made all this possible after all."


I totally agree. I love the idea of the SE, and even though I don;t like some of the changes, I do love some of the others. I just want the original version as well. Personally I'm stoked about hte ultimates, I think they will match better with the PT when the whole thing is done. But to me there will be the 6 part saga with the PT and UE, and then there will be the starwars trilogy, which contains niether prequels or SE material, and is its own three part story.

As far as I'm concerend GL can add Jarjar into all the OT films, so that he is second mate on the millinuem falcon alongside chewie and Han for all I care. As long as the original versions are around, he can make as many changes as he sees fit, and I'll always be interested to see what they are.
Post
#33501
Topic
Read these two articles please...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33501/action/topic#33501
Time
I knew you wouldn't stay away Idiot. I know your type all too well.

Quote
Originally posted by: Idiot Basher
If he does do and Ultimate Edition, won't you people just keep whining?"


No, I'm quite looking forward to the ultimate edition. Everyone is. Nobody had a problem with the Special edition being made. Some like the results others didn't, but in the end nobody really cares. What bothers us is that he is deleting the Original versions which are historically signifigant, and which many of us prefer.

Quote
"I guess I don't understand why this is such a big deal."


Because the OT are three of our favorite movies and we'd like to be able to see them on DVD. In addition its destroying a piece of history, one of the most important achievements in cinema, its also insulting to the ILM artists who created those original FX which were monumental for their time.

Again its the same thing as putting bigger tits on the mona lisa. Its one thing to make a poster of that, or a poster of mona lisa smoking pot, fine, do whatever you want. Its another thing to then burn the original and say that this is the only version.

Why don't we add some electric guitar to all of Beethoven's symphonies while we're at it, and turn the roman collesium into a modern soccer arena?

The OT is old, there's nothing wrong with that. Art should not be updated. If GL makes the OT special edition, or directors cut, or ultimate edition or whatever, it becomes a new movie. They are two seperate pieces of work that represent two different eras and two different sensibilities. THe OV represents GL as a filmmaker from the 70s, the SE represents the GL of the nineties, revisiting his work. A GL who wouldn't have Han shoot greedo in cold blood. Spielberg said if he made close encounters today, it would be totally different because he would never make a movie where a father abandons his family. So should we change CLOSE ENCOUNTERS because Spielberg feels differntly 25 years later? Of course not.Small changes, but changes nonetheless. And in filmmaking these small changes are all important. Look at the attention to detail we see GL taking in the supplements for the PT. Ever little thing is important.

Artist change with time, they mature and grow and evolve, but they should not expres this by changing their old work, but rather by creating new works that represent them in the present.

You can't change the past, and thats what GL is trying to do. He's saying in affect that the OV's never existed and is going out of his way to destroy any record of them.

At a filmfestival where ANH was suppose to represent the 1970s era of film, he would only allow the SE to be shown. Which means he is actually trying to pass off that the SE was made in the 1970s! This is patently absurd since digital technology didn't even exist back then. He refused to give them the original version, instead of being honoured that amongst some of the greatest films of all time (the 70s being a golden era of movies, not that you would care because its too "old" for you) they chose Starwars as the film to show at this festival. But Lucas ignored the honour and shoved his own agenda down their throats. Shameful.

Quote
"I guess I'm not a true fan if I'm not selfish and think that everything the director does has to be all about me."


Now your just putting words in our mouths to insult us, rather then actually argue your points intelligently.

Quote
"Who cares what he wants to accomplish as an artist."


We do! Thats the whole point! We think he accomplished something really great with the OV OT, and we'd like to be able to enjoy it.

Quote
He shouldn't change anything because that's the way I like it, even though I didn't create it and he did.


Again you've proven that you can't read posts and understand what has been said. Look at the mission statement of this thread: nobody has a problem with GL making different versions of his movies, we just want the original version, the one that made cinema history and made us like SW to begin with to still be available.

Quote
It's his child, not mine, so I should be the one to decide what should be done with it. Yeah, that seems logical to me (note the sarcasm).


Again your just putting words in our mouths. Your arguing against something we never even said.

Post
#33499
Topic
Has anyone tried to re edit the SE yet? like the "phantom edit" but with the original trilogy?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33499/action/topic#33499
Time
When the ultimate editons come out I'm going to do this, I should have my final cut pro suite by then and I had a lot of fun re-editing AotC so I have a feeling I'll do the OT UE as well.

So int heory, my SW dvd collection will when complete include:

1.The OT in the original versions

2.The OT ultimate editions

3.The PT original versions

4. A re-edited version of each.


Craziness!
Post
#33376
Topic
Read these two articles please...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33376/action/topic#33376
Time
according to AICN, the sabers were not fixed in that version.

as for the jabba scene, I know it was originally shot, But I highly doubt they planned to replace jabba with a creature back in 1976, it was just going to be that guy, and here's why:

1.the guy is in costume

2.Han refers to him as a human being

3.There was no way to technically achieve that shot back then, nor would ILM have any belief they could, its a moving shot with no blue screen and Han walks both infront of and behind Jabba, hell ILM had trouble doing it with digital technology, there is no way they would of shot it the way they did if they intended to sub in a creature afterwards, not in their wildest dreams.

Look at the shot, it would of been impossible.
Post
#33364
Topic
George Lucas' explanation why the OT is obsolete to him
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33364/action/topic#33364
Time
I fail to see much in common with ESB and AOTC. Either way he did say it, ESB is his least favorite.

Quote
Originally posted by: Master Sifo-Dyas
I think he's just stubborn and deceived by his own misconceptions about the original trilogy. To be honest, I wouldn't have any problem with his point of view at all. But by making the decision not to release the original trilogies on DVD, he aggressively forces that view onto me."


Exactly.

Quote
"It saddens me in a way, that he's not ashamed of selling fans every imaginable kind of useless junk as StarWars merchandising, yet he seems to think he'd loose his face if he'd sell us the 'junk version' of his old films on dvd. I mean, even if he couldn't bare contributing to the making of the OT DVDs, he wouldn't have to. After all there wouldn't be any creative input required of him for ILM to clean up the film and remove stuff like the opaque snowspeeder cockpits or black lines around objects. He could leave it all up to the good folks at Lucasfilm and stay at home tinkering on the concepts for his archive edition of the hexology."


Yep. I've defended GL for years, but its getting harder and harder to understand his logic. I think he lost me with digital stormtroopers.

Quote
Somehow I imagine he's angry of the fact that in the end he will never ever be able to succeed in undoing the OTs - not even by not releasing them on DVD. Fact is, the OT is out there and people still love to watch it. Perhaps the mere fact that he can't prevent people from preferring what he now sees as ugly work in progress, makes him denying them the one thing that would make those people even happier. Along the lines of "if I can't be happy, you won't be either".


thats quite possible. Thats why I've always said he won't release the OV, because he can't risk it outselling his prequels and SEs. Can you imagine the embarrassment? "Well it seems George Lucas can't convince anyone to like CGI, after 30 years people still prefer his aging original films with cheap models and rubber masks to his cutting edge digitally made versions." Basically everything he's been preaching the past 12 years would lose any validity.

Quote
"I don't envy him at all. But I certainly don't hate him."


Me either, he seems to be a loving father and kind man, and he's been a personal source of inspiration for me as a filmmaker, even if his last few contributions have more been a lesson in what not to do.
Post
#33363
Topic
Read these two articles please...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/33363/action/topic#33363
Time
yeah but the fixed lightsabers thing was later proven to be false.

this is one of the key problems with the SE, they go to ridiculous lenghts to create a terrible Jabba scene, yet they can't fix the damn lightsabers?! That would of been my first thing to fix, that terrible part where Obi-wans saber becomes a rod. Or that they fixed some matte lines but not others. Some of the composites in ROTJ stll look awful, and there are still boxes around the space ships in many scenes. So much of what they claimed to have fixed was only done in certain scenes.