Papai2013

Were you talking of the new UK re-release trailer? If so, then I saw it.

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The Blu-ray colours are closer to the 35mm print than the HDTV broadcast. I saw a 35mm telecine once. It’s colours were closer to the BD, though felt more organic and less digital.

This would only work if someone can rip the open matte broadcast off HD or even SD cable, without subtitles or channel logos on top of the picture, preferably.

Poita, thanks so much for acquiring the print! When the opportunity comes to get it scanned, please preserve the full frame and not crop/adjust it to 2.35:1. I for one would like to see the full height of the anamorphic 35mm frame. From the various film cells I’ve studied, the 35mm print contains more headroom than the 2.35:1 Blu-Ray.

Those contractual obligations do not apply for Nolan, Michael Bay and the Marvel filmmakers, but only for Zack Snyder and Brad Bird? Nah, I think it’s the filmmakers’ choice. They derive some secret pleasure from not allowing us to watch the superior versions, he he he.
This is why I would like to avoid versions which I will likely not be able to see at home. Because there is always that lingering disappointment. At least in my case.

Colson said:

Papai2013 said:

Colson said:

Papai2013 said:

It’s like “The extended cut is a privilege for those that cared to visit a 70mm showing, not for those with tiny screens and digital video equipment.”

But I did go see the roadshow (twice), and now I want to see it again, because the longer cut is the superior one.

Sadly, Tarantino doesn’t feel the same way, yet.

Wait, actually I think he probably does think the Roadshow version is better.

My response that “he doesn’t feel the same way” was to your “I want to see it again” part, not about whether the Roadshow was the superior one. My meaning was lost in communication.

Colson said:

Papai2013 said:

It’s like “The extended cut is a privilege for those that cared to visit a 70mm showing, not for those with tiny screens and digital video equipment.”

But I did go see the roadshow (twice), and now I want to see it again, because the longer cut is the superior one.

Sadly, Tarantino doesn’t feel the same way, yet.

Great news. Can’t wait!

FrankT said:

Well, why not do another roadshow then? Why let this genius go to waste?

Maybe he will do, in the future. He likes to be in control of every aspect of his films, i.e how they are seen by the public. Maybe he will relent ultimately. But remember, many filmmakers choose not to release their 70mm versions on home video - Brad Bird, J.J Abrams(‘The Force Awakens’ IMAX scene), Zack Snyder (BvS IMAX scenes), even though they are clearly aware that there is a demand for such versions on home video.
They may be doing this to spite the audiences who bashed their film, etc or in the case of Tarantino, the lack of celluloid projection.
It’s like “The extended cut is a privilege for those that cared to visit a 70mm showing, not for those with tiny screens and digital video equipment.”

I don’t have much knowledge in this area, but owning a 70mm print of a recently released film would be almost impossible, not to mention unreasonably expensive. Plus, I’d think due to the roadshows being limited, all the prints were returned to The Weinstein Company’s vaults. Plus, it’s very clear that Tarantino wants the 70mm experience to be limited to those who attended a celluloid showing. He doesn’t like video very much.

In the future it would be interesting to see whether the Roadshow version, or clips from it at all makes it to video.

skoal said:

Papai2013 said:

But sadly, since 2008, Full Screen DVD production has ceased.

Just curious, is this a fact? 2008 or 2009?

I cannot be certain, but I think 2008.

Understood, warts and all. He he, just kidding.
But I think digital colour adjustment to one scene could have been done without it affecting the entire movie. You just had to work on it separately. Though I get the idea of preserving the original print as is. Did you project the print, by the way?

Also, was some scenes missing from the 35mm LPP?

DrDre said:

The amount of correction you’re suggesting, would give all the daylight scenes a pronounced yellow/orange cast. Since all the other scenes have perfectly balanced colors, the colors for the bar scene should be accurate, as far as the original theatrical color timing is concerned. The fact that the same color timing can be found on an early home video release confirms this.

See, I am not asking you to do any of this, just expressing my honest opinion. There is no way that lantern was meant to give out a blue glow. It has to be yellow, it’s common sense (my tone is not rough or harsh, in case you read it as such). Just because all other scenes look ok doesn’t mean this shot cannot be wrong. Human error happens.

Then you would have to factor in the yellow-bulbs making the print more yellow. The DOP would light the shots and the colour timer would time them keeping in mind the warm projection bulbs, which would alter the col temp of the image.

Also, no need to alter the other scenes. They are more or less fine, colour-wise.
A VHS or laserdisc cannot be reliable sources of original colour timing.

The VHS and laserdisc (and DVD/BD) of Jurassic Park, all had a blue colour-cast which was totally wrong for decades until the 4K remaster showed that the actual tinting was much warmer. In fact, 35mm frames from the prints floating in the internet confirmed this warmer timing. Though the 3D BD went slightly overboard with the orange.

I also remembered the Leaky Cauldron tavern scene in ‘Harry Potter & The Philosopher’s Stone.’ It was a similar low-lit, scene filled with candles and lanterns. And that scene also had a warm yellow-golden hue.

DrDre said:

Papai2013 said:

DrDre said:

Here’s an example for the bar scene.

35mm LPP:

WOWOW:

WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:

This is what the unfaded print looks like, which is also consistent with the 35mm trailers from the era, and the screenshots of the early VHS release I posted. The warm bulb might add a little warmth, but in the same way that the warm setting on your tv will make it appear a little warmer. It will not make blue/white light appear yellow/orange like for the WOWOW. These are the colors of an unfaded print release print, as such it by definition cannot be grossly wrong.

Well, the best guess then is that Spielberg and the DOP got it wrong! The 30th anniversary 4K remaster was supervised by Spielberg, which is also warm tinted. Now, I agree that the red-push was a bit too much, but surely they looked at the original prints and know better than anybody else what is the right colour.

The best bet would be to catch a 35mm screening of Raiders in a movie theatre with '80s projection bulbs and the whole bunch.

Don’t get me wrong though. I seriously appreciate the time and effort you guys are putting at recreating an experience. I just think, in that particular scene, the lantern colour is totally incorrect.

DrDre said:

Here’s an example for the bar scene.

35mm LPP:

WOWOW:

WOWOW matched to 35mm LPP:

Forgive me, but an oil lantern does not glow blue, it glows with a yellow-golden hue. The 35mm colour cannot be correct. Surely Spielberg and Douglas Slocombe knew what a glowing lantern looks like. The WOWOW colour looks perfect. It’s the details that one must look into, I think, not just a source to grade properly. Also, In the 1980s and '90s the projection lamps used to be yellow, I think. So, any film projected would have actually looked warmer than how it appeared on the print itself. I am not an expert, but the 35mm colour looks grossly wrong and I do not think Spielberg wanted a yellow lamp to look blue in 1981.

P.S: Just felt a strong earthquake, shook the entire building. Whew, was a strong one. Our dog hid under the sofa.

TheDarkestKnight said: After reviewing the comparison with screener and not just a side by side, it looks like the skin tones in the manual grade are missing a bit of the blues that the screener has.

Well, photochemical timing with dyes and digital grading are very different from each other. So, it’s almost impossible for a digital regrade to achieve the same results as a photochemical one.

Looking good so far. Maybe, you can show us a video clip.

Just my opinion, but I prefer the original colours as they were from the photochemical source. Snow or shots emphasizing chilly weather, etc were always tinted bluish in photochemical timed prints. In most cases, the blue dyes shifted towards purple. This was done to make the audience feel the “chill” as we subconsciously associate blue with cold and yellow with warm temperatures. I saw this in the cinemas and the colour timing was gorgeous. I wouldn’t change it to something that looks grayish and less cinematic.

I hated the digital grading of ‘The Revenant.’ Apart from the immersive and video-like camera angles (which I did not like too much), there’s nothing inspiring about the colour grading of that movie for me. Though the feature itself is quite good and a better film than The Hateful Eight, overall.

As for your changes, I do agree that Both Tarantino’s expository voice-over and Channing Tatum are somewhat distracting. But the former I can live with because it sounds good from a purely aesthetic point.

Regarding the chapter marks, I wouldn’t remove them as they add suspense to the film; like reading a thriller novel where you want to find out what happens in the next chapter,i.e, a page-turner.

Anyone interested in capturing this broadcast? This is worth preserving, with the larger framing.

HBO shows an open matte version of this film and it’s simply gorgeous. The expanded image gives an IMAX-like scale to the movie. Key sequences include the Dragon escape and the Battle for Hogwarts, as well as the 19 years later epilogue. Has anyone seen this. More importantly, can anyone, who has the proper equipment, capture this? It’s worth preserving!

Some of the open matte shots can be seen on this page

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?p=12286877

(towards the bottom).

fmalover said:

It’s been a long time since I last posted here. Where can I find this open matte version you’re talking about? Why hasn’t it been uploaded to the spleen? I myself like it very much as it has richer colours and better contrast than the other 35mm scan. If possible could the owner create a version cropped to 1.78?

Hi fmalover,
Please be patient and read the above posts by the user. A cropped widescreen version is already available, there is no need for another. For the time being, you can look at the 35mm stills and adjust the colour on the version available.

Seeing as your file is 28 gigs, 4K would be overkill for now, I think, at least in terms of the size of that thing. Plus, many of us don’t even have the proper hardware to play such resolutions. The 4K should be kept handy for archival/future proofing.
For the time being, I think its better to just release the 1080p file that you have of 28gb size. Let us know what you think. Thanks.

P.S: Sent you a PM.

This might be a wild theory, but here it goes - Zack Snyder became so angry at the fan and critical response to his film and decided to punish us by not releasing the film on its premium format, that is in shifting aspect ratio of cinemascope and IMAX.

Also, in one interview, Snyder and WB did say (I do not remember the original article) that they were changing the tone of the future films not because they accept their faults in making the final edit of BVS, but because fans wanted a certain kind of film. Which basically means that he thinks we lack intelligence or are unable to appreciate finer aesthetics in films because his was poorly received. That’s an insult to us.

By the way, the extended cut for BvS was a completely different movie. Miles and miles better than the thetrical cut in my opinion. I’d go so far as to put it closer to ‘The Dark Knight,’ especially due to the way the plot is intelligently interwoven. The ext cut is more cohesive and makes the intentions and actions of the characters absolutely clear. Like TDK, it also now plays like a thriller. The theatrical cut in comparison feels like a pointless exercise.

Looking good.