Papai2013

That’s what I said. Since it’s just one scene, they should provide the full 1.44:1 framing inside a 1.78:1 window (pillarbox) and as a SPECIAL FEATURE. In this way we can see the framing as originally intended and those who complain about shifting ratios can watch the film matted to cinemascope throughout.

However, I would look forward to the 2.39 to 1.78 shift on the 3D BD and try and be satisfied with it since I don’t have an IMAX theatre of any kind nearby and have not seen that particular version. I will say though, that when the Falcon is doing that flip before the cameras and the Two TIE Fighters are coming in from the opposite direction, it was very clear that J.J had composed the movie for a narrower aspect ratio and wanted the Falcon to almost touch the top and bottom of the 1.44:1 frame, to give a life-size scale to Han’s ship.

Here it is Full IMAX- http://static4.techinsider.io/image/547895c26bb3f79f5f5539d6-2048-1432/star-wars-episode-vii.jpg

In the 2.39:1 version that scene felt TOO TIGHT due to the vertical cropping and almost indiscernible.
Same with the shot of Rey, Finn and BB-8 running -

http://media.washtimes.com.s3.amazonaws.com/media/image/2015/12/16/film_review-the_force_awakens.jpeg

Both shots felt TOO TIGHT in the widescreen version due to them being a straight vertical crop. If J.J would have adjusted the framing, say taking the full width of the 15-perf frame for the scope version and for the IMAX, zoom-in slightly and cut off some image at the sides. But to do that he’d have had to plan beforehand and shoot the scene from a distance. It’s very clear that J.J was composing for 1.44:1 in mind and the scope crop was just a compromise.
Even on the 1.78:1 IMAX scenes, the shots will feel tight because you will not be able to see the full Falcon or Rey’s legs within the frame which would have subconsciously created the immersion effect in our brain.

I think What Abrams could have done is include the full uncropped 1.44:1 sequence as a bonus feature in the Extras section of the Blu Ray (in addition to the shifting ratio on the 3D BD). In that way we could see both the standard 2.39:1 version of the film as well as the original IMAX framed sequence as it was shot. 2.39:1 to 1.78:1 is not bad but we are still missing a lot of image vertically from the original IMAX framing.

From the IMAX stills I have seen, the 1.44:1 framing is beautiful and has that sense of vertigo and immersion, but a 1.78:1 crop will lose all that feeling.

Vinnie981 said:

theres another tracker most release teams are going to now the spleen is done with that type of content.

Which tracker is it?

SilverWook said:

I’ve been told the scanning is still in progress. Hopefully, it will be finished this month.

Great! Where will this be uploaded?

Now that Spleen won’t allow movies anymore, what is to become of this restoration. Will it be completed and see the light of the day. Will it be uploaded elsewhere?

Oh yes! It was called “Beyond Jurassic Park.” Nothing much usable there, as far as I recall, for the first movie. The features were - “Original featurette on the making of the film” and “Steven Spielberg directs Jurassic Park.”

Which Making of? The one available on the dvd?

I only remember two scenes. The Two Ford Explorers coming out of a garage beneath the Visitor’s Centre and a longer scene in Montana with Ellie and Alan talking before the Helicopter arrives. I don’t remember anything else much. Then again memory can be tricky. One needs to get their hands on a bootleg VHS of Jurassic Park. I know one of them is a direct recording of a 35mm projection in Italian and a scene from it has been uploaded on youtube. Whether that cut contains those extra scenes, I do not know -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjT9uXLcfAQ

My definition of what a Telecine is may have been slightly misguided, but The Dark Knight copy I was talking about was not a telesync camrip, it was a telecine done from a theatrical print. I prefer its colours over the Bluray becasue the TC shows the proper theatrical colour timing. The picture is slightly warmer and the blues shift towards purple. The HDTV version uses the same cool tone colours as the bluray and uses the same master as well. Just pan scanned in the 35mm segments and cropped to 1.78:1 in the IMAX segments.

metall_havy said:

That is there in one place
http://cs627916.vk.me/v627916064/22a1c/XoNqvxr845I.jpg
http://cs627916.vk.me/v627916064/22a20/zGT-nCpN0ug.jpg
http://cs627916.vk.me/v627916064/22a28/_UOo1QCM3Mw.jpg

That T1 print is faded. Does not have the proper colours.

PDB said:

TServo2049 said:

So it does seem there are 35mm prints out there with two different color palettes - the print Tyler saw, and seemingly the print that was camcorded on YouTube (more in line with the blue/orange of the video transfers, but possibly even more pushed to blue; possibly with the biker bar stuff having additional blue pushing that’s not in the home transfers?), and the prints kaosjm and Beber saw (blue-blanket scenes less pure blue with more teal and purple, orange stuff is more yellow).

What they seem to have in common (with each other and with the IP/IPs used for home video) are that the night scenes are tinted/pushed - unlike the trailers - and the steel mill stuff is pushed, but to where/how far they are pushed seems to differ. The Wikipedia article on internegatives says that color timing is done between IP and IN - based on the answer print?

This is all so intriguing…

<span style=“line-height: 14.4px;”>metall_havy sent me 2 copies of Terminator 2 sourced from 35mm. You can tell because they are 35mm source since they have lines, damage and reel changes. One copy has parts that matches up best with the BD. The other better matches with my test regrade. And both have parts that don’t match up with either.</span><span style=“line-height: 14.4px;”>If fact one of my questions has been the amount of purple in the film and both have it in spades but in different places. And there is various levels of green and levels of orange especially for the desert.</span>

<span style=“line-height: 14.4px;”>Here is an example of the hallway battle.</span>

<span style=“line-height: 14.4px;”>BD/Regrade/35mm Video 1/35mm Video 2/Super 8mm</span>

<span style=“line-height: 14.4px;”></span>

<span style=“line-height: 14.4px;”>This is all so confusing…</span><span style=“color: #333333; font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 13.0667px;”>
</span>

RayRogers said:

Since I own both the Skynet Blu (for the three cuts and extras) and the Van Ling No DNR 2015 Blu, it appears PDB’s color timing would be what I’d want.

I’m using the 2015 BD as a base. Who knows if I’m right, just trying to figure out what T2 looks like without having a 35mm print. And Team Blu’s version of Terminator were very nice.

I prefer the colour timing of the 8mm release as it’s got that rich old photochemical vibe and grain structure; an overall organic and gorgeous palette. And I don’t mind the purple at all.

DrDre said:

Papai2013 said:

Both Jurassic Park 3D and Raiders BD has the same colour grading with a red tint. This is because they wanted to match the projected image of a 35mm release print and the original warm photochemical timing. However, I think they went overboard with the red tone. The HDTV source if it’s warmed slightly and shifted a bit to the green side will perhaps closely match the print colours, based on the 35mm stills I saw here. Again, the colours on a print look different when projected with the proper bulb brightness. So, I don’t think it’d have looked as red as the BD has it.

The thing is that the bluray is shifted towards orange on the whole, but the bar fight scenes take the red shift to a whole other level, that cannot be explained by a slightly warmer tone. This probably is a delibirate artistic choice, and it clearly contradicts the statements by Paramount, that claim the bluray has the theatrical color timing, which in fact has more of a red shift in this scene than the WOWOW.

HDTV sources are not reliable for colour timing from what I have seen. Look at Jurassic Park’s HDTV colours, it’s shifted towards blue, so is the 2D BD, and both of them have been sourced from the same master file. The original film cells available in the internet clearly show the original timing was warmer (green-yellow-orange). Not as warm as the 3D BD, but not as awfully blue as the HDTV or the 2D BD. So, I guess something less reddish than the current BDs would be the ideal colouring.

Both Jurassic Park 3D and Raiders BD has the same colour grading with a red tint. This is because they wanted to match the projected image of a 35mm release print and the original warm photochemical timing. However, I think they went overboard with the red tone. The HDTV source if it’s warmed slightly and shifted a bit to the green side will perhaps closely match the print colours, based on the 35mm stills I saw here. Again, the colours on a print look different when projected with the proper bulb brightness. So, I don’t think it’d have looked as red as the BD has it.

Sorry, double post.

poita said:

Papai2013 said:

Ok. Good to know. But how does this colour chart work? I want to learn, that’s all.

Not to get into it here, but read this and it will give you an idea:
http://www.newsshooter.com/2015/10/30/the-colour-chart-re-invented-xrites-new-colorchecker-video-is-designed-for-better-exposure-and-balance/

Thanks!

Oh, Thanks! I try my best. 😃

EDIT: I wonder why the smileys do not show. It’s a “smile” smiley by the way.

Jetrell Fo said:
Bury your feelings Papai … they do you credit, but they could be made to server the emperor.

😉

Huh ?? I did not get you.

Ok. Good to know. But how does this colour chart work? I want to learn, that’s all.
The other thing here is that the print is faded. So it’s not colour accurate anyway. What other sources will you guys be using to find the proper projected print colour and brightness?

I have seen a Telecine (not telesync) of a 35mm release print of Interstellar which is completely different colour-wise to the Blu Ray or DVD. The telecine has a warm yellow-green look with more sunburnt skintones which is very similar to how most photochemically timed prints appear when projected with warm bulbs, while the DVD and Bluray has a cooler blue-ish tone. The telecine looks absolutely gorgeous colour wise, and now when I look back at the BD or DVD, I find them uninteresting to look at.
The gold-toned image is what we’ve come to associate with photochemical prints and 35mm screenings. And as I said earlier, even the Blues in the prints look somewhat violet/purple shifted.

SilverWook said:

Full aperture is the plan. We may see more than we bargained for though. If Stanley is in the edge of a shot glaring at Shelly Duvall, we’ll see it. 😉

Another thing I would ask you guys and those who are scanning the print - After you are done making the wet-gate scan and archiving it digitally, project the print with the proper 35mm film projection bulbs if possible (type of bulbs used in theatres) and take photos of the print in running condition, ideally on a Canon DSLR which preserves the proper colours (unlike Nikon which has a slight cool tint). These photos will help you in restoring the colours of the print to its ideal projected look, i.e, colour, brightness, contrast, et all.

EDIT: I am sorry I forgot it’s a faded print. Then there is no way to know how an actual print would have looked. But I think the final image should be something that is slightly warmer than the Blu ray. That is just a guess.

I FOUND SOMETHING - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA8O8yi8lSw

Its an ad for a 35mm screening of The Shining. The fact that it has a different AR and warmer colours than the Bluray suggests me that this is a sample of the actual print they had shown. But it can be from the widescreen DVD as well, I do not know.

That will be so great (laughs)! Educational as well, ha ha.

SilverWook said:

Full aperture and wetgate are the plan.

I’ll be happy to see the pink tennis ball corrected. Curiously, the “edited for tv” airing on AMC fixes this.

Very good. Please also release it full aperture and not cropped to widescreen. There needs to be a Full uncropped release of The Shining as Kubrick wanted. We already have a perfect widescreen HD master on Blu Ray. There is no need for another widescreen release. Now we need a Full Aperture HD release with nothing cropped, just stabilised, brightened if its too dark and colour corrected to approximate the projected print brightness and colour which as I said earlier, differs from that of a direct scan of the release print. The yellowish bulb would not only brighten the dark parts that would appear on a raw print scan as black crush, but the bulb would also change the colour timing of the print to a more warm/yellow push. And the Blues would always appear to be slightly violet. This should be the aim in the final release. Of course, scratch removal, etc are there as well.
Anyway, it’s a mammoth effort so all the best guys. I would have loved to contribute, but unfortunately I don’t have a credit card. Hopefully I will, someday.

No no, this is not a screener, it’s a telecine which are stabilised recordings of a 35mm release print from inside the projection booth, rather than by amateurs with shaky cams inside the cinema hall (telesync). These show the true colours and brightness of a projected 35mm print.

I have already contacted him. He has yet to reply.

There is a telecine version available in kickass website which is a scan from a 35mm release print. And the Colour timing is very similar to how most 35mm prints look projected on cinemas that I remember. The skin tones are warmer and the blues have a slight purple shift that is a standard look of photochemical timing. Though it is a low quality version, the organic feel of the video is obvious.

I have it too. Although the Disc back cover says 1.66:1, it’s actually framed on the DVD in 1.78:1, cropping the top and bottom.