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Pagz

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10-Mar-2003
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10-Feb-2025
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Post
#67872
Topic
Things you LIKED about the Special Editions?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/67872/action/topic#67872
Time
Luckily for me, I'm not a purist. Let's call me a smartist I have no problem with cosmetic changes, or even additions to the trilogy, so long as they aren't stupid. As such, a list of what I liked:

The Trilogy as a whole:
Picture Quality
Cleaning up of Mattes

ANH
1.) The new Transistions (The Jawa Canyon, The Sand Crawler, Ben's Homestead) Were very nice and a definite improvement over the originals.

2.) Cleaning up the effects on the landspeeder, good idea.

3.) Some, but not all, of the new Mos Eisley shots. I agree it needed to be expanded. The way it was done though leaves much to be desired. With some judicious editing, the new Mos Eisley arrival is nice.

4.) Some of the New Falcon shots. The take off from Mos Eisley is cool, as is the new appraoch to Yavin. Only issue, the CG falcon is too thin, when seen in profile it's just not as thick as the Model is.

5.) New Biggs scene. I love this addition. It finally brings weight and resonance to the death of Biggs. It gives us everything we need to let us know that Biggs and Luke are friends, and drive home that his death could seriously effect Luke at a critical point during the death star attack.

6.) New dog fights. As much as I love the originals, they were brand new effects at the time and 27 years later it really shows. Some of the movements are so slow that you have to wonder how the ties aren't blowing the rebels out of the sky. The new dog fights are much nicer. That being said, I'd like for them to go back and re work the cg a bit, the models are still very 97 CG, which looks a little on the cartoony side. They need new texture maps and such to make them look more realistic. (New Dog Fights does not include the new approach to or escape from the deathstar, those shots were botched royal)

ESB
1.) Opening up cloud city. This is a change I hated on the big screen, because I felt it made the frame to "busy" but on my tv, I love it. I think it really opens up Cloud city, makes it much less claustraphobic.

2.) The 2nd CG hatch added to the Falcon when Lando goes up to rescue Luke. An easy little addition that explains where the bright light came from, it looks great, and it's unintrusive.

3.) The shot of the Imperial shuttle leaving Bespin heading to the Star Destroyer is pretty, cut the crap surrounding it and it can stay.

ROTJ
1.) New Oola scene in the rancor pit. jedi Rocks blows hard, but this scene which comes right after is solid gold. It really adds to the suspense and tension of what exactly is down there. Seeing her reaction to the Rancor but not seeing the rancor itself is great.

2.) Eyebrow removal on Anakin. It makes him look a lot more creepy and mournful I think, the effect is very nice.


Sadly, that's it. The changes that I hate outweight the changes I like by a lot.
Post
#67840
Topic
Why the fans complain...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/67840/action/topic#67840
Time
Certainly, But just because it wasn't planned the way it turned out from the start doesn't lessen the value of what they reached in the end. The thing is to seperate the end product from the incorrect notion that Lucas is some kind of grand master of story telling, and that he had a master plan in mind from the onset as to how all of this would turn out. He had concepts, vague notions, specific scenes and the like, but he had nothing concrete. I like that Vader turned out to be Luke's father, that was a brilliant move. I like Leia being Luke's sister, that also works out terribly well for the overall story. The fact that he didn't plan it that way doesn't make it less effective. The fact that he pretends to have planned it that way though, is annoying.
Post
#67613
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits: Ep I "Balance Of The Force", and Ep II "The Clone War" (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/67613/action/topic#67613
Time
But, but, Shadows sucked so hard, while Mag's work kicks serious ass. I know, to each their own, I just didn't care for the Shadows of the Empire thing at all. I find Steve Perry to be a mediocre author at best, The game was alright, but nothing amazingly special, the new characters and the story line really did nothing for me. Psuedo Han Solo and his Psuedo Falcon just felt so forced, Xizor was lame and his whole subplot with Vader was weak. I did like the score however. Anyway, I'm rambling now, forgive me. Yay Magnolia edits!
Post
#67562
Topic
Why the fans complain...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/67562/action/topic#67562
Time
I have to agree with Ric on this, the Biggs Scenes would ruin the pacing of the beginning of the film, regardless of how gifted the editor is. Possibly the only really worthwhile part of the commentary on ANH deals with why that portion of the film was cut. Forgetting that for a moment though, have you actually seen the bigs scenes? They're pretty bad. These are not some holy grail of deleted scenes, they're poor scenes that were cut for pacing and story concerns. The scenes work in the radio series, but not in the film itself. For me, the Biggs scene they included in the Special Editions is more than enough to establish the bond of friendship between him and Luke, and make his death meaningful.
Post
#67202
Topic
Does this make sense?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/67202/action/topic#67202
Time
Oh sweet Jeebus, that sounds stupid enough for Lucas to do. I've always argued that vader couldn't know about his kids, because the Emperor and vader would have been hunting for them ever since. If this is in fact what he has in mind, it's some pretty weak sauce. Vader can pluck the knowledge of Leia's existence from Luke's mind (which right there tells us vader doesn't know about Leia) but the Emperor can't wrazzle the knowledge of Vader's kid/s out of him? I really hope that's not the direction this takes.
Post
#67196
Topic
Does this make sense?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/67196/action/topic#67196
Time
I hate this new dialogue. First, it's stupid. If they're trying to play it so that Vader has been searching for Skywalker "secretly" and so is playing dumb when the emperor calls, then Vader is the worst secret keeper in the Galaxy. He's ordering his troops to find Skywalker! He says skywalker by name! Does he think the Emperor doesn't glance at the field reports coming in every so often? Second, the use of the line "search your feelings" just ruins the same line when Vader uses it later. Way to go Vader you unoriginal muthfudger. This New Dialogue is pure ass.
Post
#66630
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edits: Ep I "Balance Of The Force", and Ep II "The Clone War" (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/66630/action/topic#66630
Time
That said, listening to the actual audio that's replaced the alien speech is pretty grating after a while.

This is really my only real problem with Magnoliafan's edit. Honestly, I understand the situation he's in. Unless he knows some talented voice actors and feels like redubbing all the alien lines, it's a much easier solution. That said though, I always find reversed dialogue instantly recognizable as such, and it pulls me out of the film a bit.

Also, because of the sheer amount of alien dialogue that your re-write requires, suddenly everyone in the movie seems like an expert in alien languages, answering races they've never met as if they were speaking English. Part of what was cool about Han speaking wookie was that you knew it was rare for a human to do... sort of similar with Anakin speaking Huttese. This isn't a huge deal though.


I have to disagree there. One of my favourite conceipts of the OT was that everybody seemed to understand eachother regardless of languge. Han/Greedo, Han/Chewie, Obiwan/Chewie, Lando/Nien Numb, Luke/Jabba. It's one of the things I missed in the prequels.


Post
#64929
Topic
THX 1138 - What a Special Edition SHOULD Be.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/64929/action/topic#64929
Time
Just a quick note. There is no directors cut of Dune. There's the theatrical cut, and then there's teh television edit, also known as the Alan Smithee version. It's called Alan Smithee because Lynch had his name removed from that version of the film. Alan Smithee is a name that the Director's Guild has put on films where the director washes his hands of the project for whatever reason, usually studio interference. While the Smithee version is longer, it's purely a TV edit, it could never be presented in the film's original aspect ratio, because the elements used to extend the film were all panned and scanned. Sometimes, they're just shots from the theatrical version, flipped so they look kinda different.

Unless of course we're talking about the Sci-Fi mini series here, in which case pretend I didn't say anything
Post
#64791
Topic
The OOT on DVD - then what?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/64791/action/topic#64791
Time
For me personally, the format is irrelevant. I'm not here to see the OT released on DVD specifically, I'm here because I want the OT to remain available ALWAYS. regardless of what the future brings. All I want from Lucas is his acknowledgement that, while he has the right as an artist to change his work, he also has a duty to preserve an important piece of Cinema history as it was embraced by the population at large. It is the OT that changed the movie landscape irrevocably, not the SEs. Regardless of whether Lucas considers them workprints, they were released to the public and absorbed in that form for 20 years. It would be like if Davinci invented a time machine and suddenly appeared in the Louvre tomorrow, demanding to be given the Mona Lisa so he could rework the painting, perhaps add teeth to the smile that, while beloved by the world, was not how he truly envisioned it. Who wins in that scenario? Does Davinci get his painting back and the world loses the Mona Lisa, or is Davinci denied access to his work due to its historical significance?

Lucas is in a unique position that he can rework his films and still preserve their original presentation. Such being the case, there shouldn't be any question as to the manner in which he should conduct himself. There's also the issue of owner ship. George created the OT, and says he therefore has the right to change them. However, George "Sold" the OT to us, the movie going public, for 20 years before deciding to go back and change things. We paid for the OT, our money, fandom and loyalty are what enabled Lucas to go back 20 years later and rework the films. As such, he can not claim complete and total ownership over the OT, not on moral grounds anyways. Morally, he created something, and sold it to the world, and the world in turn paid him a hefty sum for it. Now, with that money, George is taking the OT away from the world, changing it, and giving it back, and asking for more money for it on top of everything. That's just not right.
Post
#64604
Topic
Episodes 7,8,9?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/64604/action/topic#64604
Time
Quote
Wrong!
Padme dies giving birth!
Leia remembers "Feelings" - "Images" - She's stronge in the force!


I refuse to accept "the force" as the answer for all the inconsistencies George has inflicted on the OT. So she was strong in the force, that doesn't mean she can remember images and feelings from the moment of her birth. And what about Luke? He's just as strong in the force, perhaps stronger, and he has no memory of his mother. It's like the Excuse Xena gave in that episode of the Simpsons "Anytime you see something on the show that doesn't make sense... A wizard did it."

Quote
"A Jedi's weapon, much like your fathers" - Meaning that only Vader has the weapon of the Jedi


I suppose you could take it that way, but I don't.

Quote
"That boy is our last hope" - Probably meaning that Luke has already started his traing - Leia has not. She doesn't even know she has the Force running through her. Obi just probably thought it was too late for to start training Leia, given her age!


He didn't have a problem with Luke's Age. Not to mention when the line in question was written, leia was not yet Luke's sister. That plot element wasn't struck upon until Lucas started writing Jedi.

Quote
they were hidden seperatly to protect them. Two kids strong in the Force together with Yoda is too easy to find.


Are they? Vader couldn't sense his son who was strong in the force when he was in orbit over tatooine. He couldn't sense how strong Leia was in the force while standing 2 feet from her. Seems to me the universe is an enormous place. It further seems to me that sensing a disturbance in the force is different than getting a fix on said disturbance.

Quote
And maybe Anakin didn't even know about Leia being born. - Actually he didn't know!


Anakin can't know about either of them. If he knew, then the Emperor would know, and they would have been actively searching. If they were actively searching, there's no way Luke would have been allowed to hide out with his original last name. In fact, Luke's last name is the most damning piece of evidence to the fact that Vader wasn't Luke's father until ESB when Lucas decided to make the cahnge. No master plan, no grand story arc following the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. nothing.
Post
#64366
Topic
Episodes 7,8,9?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/64366/action/topic#64366
Time
Quote
...tell the story of his father's fall from grace. Except when you begin to see the parallels in their two seemingly different lives.


Umm, could you maybe make a list of these similarities. It's just that, we're 2 thrids of the way through the PT, and personally, I'm not seeing a whole lot of similiarities between Luke and Anakin. The best I could say is that they're both kinda whiney. Unless there's a dramatic turn in Episode 3 where we get to see some similarities, I'd say the prospect of the PT throwing Luke's character into a new light is really slim. As it stands now it hasn't happened, so Ep 3 has its work cut out for it.

Oh, a little off topic, but here's a couple of continuity issues I have:

1.) Somehow, Obi-Wan is going to have to be unaware of Leia's existence in episode 3. He can know about Luke, but considering he doesn't find out about Leia until (presumably) ESB when he says "that boy is our last hope" and Yoda says "No, there is another" which I assume was followed by an off-screen spilling of the beans to Obi Wan.

2.) If Padme bites it in ROTS, they'll have to make the film cover a pretty large schwack of time, because Leia remembers her mother. Let's be generous and assume Leia can recall images and feelings from as far back as being 3 years old. Any earlier than that is getting ridiculous. So, Padme has to Live, with Leia, in hiding, for 3 years, and then she can die.

3.) If Luke and Leia were the universes last hope, and if Jedi are only supposed to be trained starting when they are very young, then why were they hidden away, seperately, and allowed to grow up? Why were they not secreted to yoda on Degobah to be trained?

4.) At some point in ROTS, Anakin needs to have a lightsaber like Luke's ROTJ saber, because the emperor tells Luke that his lightsaber is "much like your fathers" and Anakin's saber is clearly nothing like Lukes.

Just some thoughts
Post
#64363
Topic
An angry Review of the 2004 OT SE DVD's
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/64363/action/topic#64363
Time
Wow, lot's of hate for the LOTR movies from a coupe people. A shame the movies didn't speak to them the way they spoke to others, but I'll say no more on the topic. That nonsense about Alec Guiness doing all his scenes for Empire and jedi during ANh though? Come on, get serious. Vader wasn't even decided to be Lukes father until a later draft of the ESB script. And Leia wasn't decided to be Luke's sister until during the writing of ROTJ. Don't swallow the whole 'I had it all planned out back in 75 with a script large enough to be 12 movies and a whole back story and character arcs and blah blah blah...' because that's just bull. Lucas made these movies by the seat of his pants, and it's only by virtue of having talented screenwriters, actors, crew, and directors that the OT became what it is. Lucas got lucky. He's a brilliant story man, not a brilliant writer.
Post
#63623
Topic
the "ultimate edition"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/63623/action/topic#63623
Time
I don't think the lack of anchorhead scene makes the Biggs scene pointless. I think not having the Biggs scene at all makes his Death scene pointless. It's hard enough for the audience to remember that Luke Mentioned Biggs at the dinner table when his only scenes in the film are during the dogfight. I felt the Biggs scene finally added weight and depth to what had always struck me as a "huh?" scene. Biggs dies, like every other rebel pilot died, but for some reason, we're suppose to believe that specific death affected Luke? He gets a mounrful musical cue? Made no sense. As a hard core star wars fan, of course, I knew the history between the characters. Back when I was a kid, watching the movie on our old, enormous VHS deck, Biggs was just some guy, and his death held no more meaning than the scores of others that had preceeded it. I've seen parts of the Anchorhead sequence, I understand why it was cut, it's not terribly good. The Biggs scene on Yavin is good, and gives us all the background we need to drive home to the audience that A) this is Luke's best friend from back home, and B)His death during the battle could potentially make Luke lose it emotionally, and therefore carries a lot more signifigance than random rebel pilot death.

That's just my take on it