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Post
#55970
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edition Episode III-VI Titles
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55970/action/topic#55970
Time
Some more titles to consider:

Star Wars, Episode IV: The Plot Thickens

Star Wars, Episode IV: Dude, She's your sister!

Star Wars, Episode IV: Dude, where's my dad?

Star Wars, Episode IV: The Fellowship of the Droid

Star Wars, Episode IV: Jawas Gone Wild

Star Wars, Episode IV: Okay, now it's gonna get good

Star Wars, Episode IV: Corellian Corvette Summer

Just some thoughts
Post
#55968
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55968/action/topic#55968
Time
The thing is, price-fixing is blatantly illegal. What Lucas has done is in a much grayer area. The films are in fact the Star Wars trilogy, there's no getting around that. The issue here is that he has neglected to qualify that title with something like "The Special Editions" or some other such subtitle to inform people these are not the films they remember. The difficulty comes from the fact that these films are George Lucas's intellectual property, which basically means he can release them in whatever form he likes. While you might be able to successfully argue that he is misrepresenting his product, it's going to be a very hard sell, and even after the fact, unless you can show damages from such, the chances of winning are slim. With price-fixing there are damages, and those damages can be measured monetarily, not so in this case. Another thing to keep in mind is that Lucas has successfully released both TPM and AOTC in altered formats without having to retitle them for DVD release. It could very well be that the legal issues surrounding fraudulent misrepresentation do not extend to the realm of intellectual property. In which case, there's not a blasted thing we can do. Regardless though, it seems to me a lawsuit would hurt the cause a lot more than it would help. The lawsuit can't get the OT released on DVD, but it sure as hell can piss Lucas off enough to never release it. He already says he'll never release it, but we've seen George change his mind before, let's not give him any reason to set that decission in carbonite.
Post
#55932
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edition Episode III-VI Titles
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55932/action/topic#55932
Time
I like the way Revenge and Return counterpoint eachother, I would leave those titles as-is. The do however have a few minor qualms with "The Hidden Fortress" as a title though.

First, it's refering to a very specific and tangible thing, while none of the other titles do that.

Second, that tangible thing, depending on your point of view, is either (and most likely) the rebel base, or the Death star. Either way, it's a thing that, while certainly a part of the story, does not really embody the story. I think the titles should really Embody the overall story of the film. Balance of the force does that nicely, as the whole thing is very much about the balance of the force between good and evil. The Clone War again embodies the main thrust of the film. The empire strikes back completely embodies the story of the 5th film, and Return of the Jedi certainly embodies the 6th.

Thirdly, since it's taking the title directly from the film which inspired star wars, it almost seems like a rip off at that point. it's like "Star Wars is so much like the hidden fortress, we decided to call it the hidden fortress too!" I dunno, it just doesn't really do anything for me, I prefer A New Hope to the Hidden Fortress, at least it's original. After posting initially, "The Flame of Rebellion" really grew on me, I have no idea why, just felt right in my head. You of course must follow your own heart and artistic instincts, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents.
Post
#55919
Topic
I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT - WHY SO MANY SW FANS DISLIKED THE PT...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55919/action/topic#55919
Time
I'd be fine with that, in fact I was really surprised and disappointed that wasn't one of the things the SE's spruced up back in 97. I'm not against GL spiffing up the OT if he wants too, I'm against him pretending the OT never happened and not releasing it. To my mind, it's far worse to alter scenes that effect the flow of the story and the nature of the characters than it is to simply go in and clean up effects shots, or insert new effects where you've decided that the old ones just don't hold up.
Post
#55781
Topic
MagnoliaFan Edition Episode III-VI Titles
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55781/action/topic#55781
Time
Here's the thing, there's a certain cadence to the majority of the Star Wars titles. Except for episode 1 and 4, all of the subtitles have been 4 words long, 5 syllables.

It's difficult to come up with a title for Episode IV which feels appropriate. there are a lot of sources to draw from, you could call it The Son of the Suns in referrence to the Journal of the Whills, You could go with one of the Radio Drama episode titles like A wind to shake the stars, but neither of those really feel right to me. I think Son of the Suns is to esoteric, and wind just kinda lame.

It might be easier once we know what episode III is going to be called.

here's one off the top of my head

Flame of Rebellion (or Flame of the Rebellion, or The Flame of Rebellion, or The Flame of the Rebellion. sensing a theme here?)


Post
#55723
Topic
I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT - WHY SO MANY SW FANS DISLIKED THE PT...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55723/action/topic#55723
Time
Welcome Aboard Luke, next stop repetitive junction

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i can understand the whole discussion about the Rebellion not having any funding and therefore having to make due with what they have... but since the Empire does have control of most the galaxy.. wouldnt they have a substancial amount of money from their operations... and in that way couldn't they afford more advanced or better looking ships...


I'm not concerned so much with the outward appearance of the ships as I am with their visible interfaces. Clearly the pod racer, the royal cruiser, and the naboo fighters all have much more sophisticated graphical interfaces. The problem with this is that, by comparison, the x-wings and tie fighters, the millenium falcon, and the imperial shuttle of the OT appear to be severely dated. The controls, the displays, all look like much older technology. To be fair, they are much older technology, having been produced in 77-83. However, they could easily have matched that in the PT to make things appear more congruous. As it stands, it's hard to buy the jump from detailed and pretty cg displays in a Naboo fighter to the barely stick figure representations we get in an x-wing, a ship over 30 years newer. Ditto for the tie fighters.

Honestly, I fully expect Lucas to fix those up when he gets to his final editions of the OT, and honestly, those are the kinds of additions that don't bother me in the slightest.
Post
#55706
Topic
I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT - WHY SO MANY SW FANS DISLIKED THE PT...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55706/action/topic#55706
Time
Quote
because naboo is palpatines planet and it creates a sympathy vote for him.


See, that jumps way ahead and assumes all sorts of things. First, that's part of Palpatine's reasoning for having the Federation invade, but he can't share that reasoning with the Federation, because then they have amunition they can use against him. So, we come back to the same problem as before, that being that there is no motivation for the Trade Federation to invade Naboo. There needs to be some manner of strong compulsion for the federation before they would take such a drastic and risky step. 2ndly, once they've invaded, Palpatine keeps pushing for that signed treaty, in which case, there'd be no vote at all. Naboo would simply be under federation control, period. Proving that the signature was obtained under duress would take forever, and the process of finding out such would end up with the Federation losing their franchise, and the Queen restored to power, so again, no vote would be taking place.

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ok, in WW2 if Hitler had succeeded (which he came very very very close to doing) and he purged jews around the world, in a matter of years. in the late sixties how many ppl would really remeber the jew.


I expect a whole hell of a lot. Killing of a race does not erase them from history. Not to mention that in such a regime, those opposed to it tend to have their ways of circulating the POV and chronicling the history being erased. Just as in Russia, people continued to be religious in secret, so to would the truth about what had happened to the Jews have been kept. Not to mention, it's unlikely Hitler would have allowed such a huge feat to go uncelebrated. Of course, the offical slant on it would be much different, but you can bet he'd be proudly pointing to that "acheivement" for decades to come.

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that is a generation of people later with a facist government(the empire). there is alot that can be done in 20 years when you have a facist government.


True enough. However, I never saw any evidence in the Star Wars trilogy, beyond the existence of the Emperor, that society in general was terribly facist in nature. Granted, we don't see a lot of the universe at large in the films, but Tatoiine sure didn't seem to be under the heel of oppression, just impoverished. I got the distinct impression that as long as you kept quiet and didn't rock the boat, you keep carry on much as you had before Imperial rule. Granted, this isn't freedom, but niether is it outright tyranny. The very fact that Luke has heard of the clone wars, and the jedi knights, suggests that this isn't banned or controlled information. Which is part of the reason I therefore assumed the Jedi had to have been purged long ago. Long enough that at least 2 generations had grown up without them, and they were now merely stories. 50 years seemed like a reasonable amount of time. Anyone younger than 50 would have no firsthand knowledge of the Jedi.

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also to the point where the general public called the jedi magicians. well this mind set was around in TMP was well " what you think you are some sort of jedi trying to do mind tricks."


I don't think that line was indicative of public opinion of the Jedi so much as it encapsulated Watto's annoyance and amusement that this stupid offworled was trying to pull a Jedi mindtrick on a toydarian, who are imune to such.

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The difference here is that the Empire is not confined to a single continents worth of raw materials.
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Quote
yea but they are not defending and helping one continent together, the Galaxy is a big place, and this is a lot of fronts that need to be covered,


See, that assumes all out, total warfare, which the Rebellion was not. The rebels were far too small a group to have the Empire defending various fronts. In fact, the likelihood is that there were very few fronts that required actual defense. the Rebels were not about to strike at planets or population centers, these are the people they're trying to free from Imperial opression. They'll be after shipyards, millitary bases and the like.

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and as for the rebellion, they aren't being funded and are building there own stuff. they don't have access to the big technology that the empire has.


I don't know that they're building there own stuff. The X-Wing isn't rebellion made after all. And if a 9 year old slave can build a podracer with a signifigantly more advanced graphic display system 32 years before the rebellion or using X-wings, then perhaps there's a problem.

Quote
I should also add that the NJO takes place 25 years after the OT and the technology is relitively the same. mayeb the SW galaxy has reacched a point of techonologycal advancement where it is very hard to get better.


A very good point, I hadn't thought about that before. Technology does seem to have come to a stand still by the NJO era hasn't it. Or perhaps its a function of our main characters generally using the same ships that they're accustomed to. Luke's X-wing is so imprinted on R2 that they work together at droid/counterpart levels, Han isn't about to ditch the Falcon. Other ships kind of flit in and out of the books. The X-Wing still seems to be in wide use, but beyond that, you don't get a lot of description of new ships. Unseen ships occasionally, like the fleet of prince whats his face, the one who wanted to Marry Liea. Or the ithorian botanical arks. But yeah, no major innovations from the novels, interesting.

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Absolutely, it is because the effects were primitive in 77. The problem is that no effort was made in the PT to match the displays to the OT. Hence the impression of more advanced technology.
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Quote
its not the PTs fault that is looks better then the OT,


Actually, it is. They could have made a conscious effort when making the films to match up the displays of the PT to those of the OT, but they didn't.

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I really wish he'd gone the route he did for the original trilogy, that is, writing the story, but leaving the script to professional, talented screenwriters. George is a good story man, but not a good writer. Why he continues to write them himself is a mystery to me. Oh well.
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Quote
i do to cus a good screen play script would have made it ez for most people to draw the conclusions that i have drawn about most of the plot holes that you have commented on. your are right it is a bad script in terms of connecting things i agree with you there but it is not a bad story.


I agree, it's not a bad story, it's just badly written. I, however, don't think it's a great story either. Had I been the one doing it, I certainly would have gone in a very different direction than what we've seen.

Post
#55679
Topic
I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT - WHY SO MANY SW FANS DISLIKED THE PT...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55679/action/topic#55679
Time
I love this place, I really do. I've been on so many Star Wars forums that just blew, with people who either never talked, or who were so set in their opinions that having an intelligent debate was practically impossible. It really is a pleasure to debate the minutia of Star Wars with the people here who are actually good natured about it.

The reason I bring up Alderaan is because, according to the Radio Drama for ANH, it is one of the key systems making up the Empire. That, along with its destruction (because dantooine was too remote to be an effective demonstration) said to me that Alderaan is both politically and cosmologically (the space equivalent of geographic?) more prominent than Naboo.

What this all really comes down to is that I wish George had spent a lot more time planning his prequels. Sure, he had notes and ideas from way back, but when it comes right down to it, these prequels, story wise, have not been terribly well thought out. Too many inconsistncies with the OT which they have to link up, too many internal problems. I really wish he'd written all the scripts first, and then started film, instead of doing one, filming it, then writing the next. Not to mention, I really wish he'd gone the route he did for the original trilogy, that is, writing the story, but leaving the script to professional, talented screenwriters. George is a good story man, but not a good writer. Why he continues to write them himself is a mystery to me. Oh well.

To me it feels like GL wrote the PT without going back and watching the OT. It feels like he said "I made those movies, I remember them well enough" and just started working on the new stuff. It's the only real explanation I can come up with for the inconsistencies.

As for Steve Sansweets job, yeah, that'd be sweet. Honestly, I think George could find someone better. Nothing against Steve, he's a good guy, but I've seen SW fans online with hugely comprehensive sites tackling the most mundane of minutia in much more logical and believable ways than I've seen come out of lucasfilm.
Post
#55673
Topic
I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT - WHY SO MANY SW FANS DISLIKED THE PT...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55673/action/topic#55673
Time
Quote
Ok..................The Trade dispute is due to the HEAVY taxing BY THE REPUBLIC SENATE of space TRADING lanes used largely by THE TRADE FEDERATION. Outraged by having to pay more, on top of already extravagant taxes, the Trade Federation protest by blockading the taxations biggest supporter.....NABOO. Who is principal for getting the tax through the Senate?
Thats right.................. Palpatine.


OKay, where is all this information coming from? because it's certainly not coming from the movie. The opening crawl merely tells us that the taxation of trade routes is in dispute. That's it. If naboo was the primary supporter of the taxation, we need to find out about that, but even so, that does not neccessarily explain the blockade, and certainly not the invasion. Why blockade a small, out of the way planet like Naboo, when they could go after a much higher profile planet, say Alderaan. If they're trying to make a political point, blockading a small, peaceful planet is not the best way to go about it. Unfortunately, this still doesn't explain why the Trade Federation would invade the Naboo. What would there be for them to gain from it? Nothing. What could they lose? Everything. It seems to me that while the blockade possibly has political justifications (although they are never discussed in the film, which is a *big* problem) there is absolutely no reason for the Federation to escalate things by invading Naboo.

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Who's responsible for ensuring the Trade Federation know who actioned the proposed taxation?
That's right..................Darth Sidious


Again, where is this information coming from? I can only assume this might be information imparted in the novelization. I haven't read the novelization since '99 so I don't truly remember. That's beside the point though, we're talking about the movie here, and as far as the movie goes, this is information that is never revealed to the audience. That being the case, this remains a signifigant plot hole in the film. You shouldn't have to read the novelization to fill in the blanks, especially when this is a movie, and not an adaption of a novel.

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3.) Technology. <snip>
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Ok thats a fair point...it's also one that I've heard since TPM came out & one that I don't really see a problem with. You have to remember that by the time the OT comes along the Rebellion has been a thorn in the side of the Empire for near on 20 years. After 20 years of fighting I'm pretty sure that the technology they're using would not so much take a step back from that used in the PT as be more hashed together. If we look back at our own history during World War 2 although weapons of war advanced (tanks, rockets, nuclear bombs read: At-At's, Star Destroyers, Death Star super laser), the ability to provide the raw materials to build these and other weapons/equipment for the soldiers began to run out, I remember reading that canvas was stretched over tanks where they had not enough steel to fully armour them.


The difference here is that the Empire is not confined to a single continents worth of raw materials. The Galactic Empire is pretty big, and it can pull raw materials from anywhere, it can even mine asteroids for raw materials. I suspect that a materials shortage is not to blame here. Perhaps for the rebellion, but not the Empire. And remember, the Rebellion won its *first* major victory when they captured the death star plans. The rebellion isn't what I would consider a full scale war. It's small, and it makes strategic strikes at the empire, but it's certainly not large enough to engage in all out war on the Empire. That being the case, there probably isn't a shortage on materials.

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As fo the interfaces being more primitive in the OT.............well sorry to say it but YES IT IS DUE TO PRIMITIVE SFX AT THE TIME OF MAKING THE OT. I'm sure when the 468th release on dvd comes along someone at ILM will have touched them up & they'll be as super duper as they are in the PT. BTw on a personal note i was under the impression that the displays looked very similar to the Ot, but maybe thats just me!


Absolutely, it is because the effects were primitive in 77. The problem is that no effort was made in the PT to match the displays to the OT. Hence the impression of more advanced technology.

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5.) Force Powers. <snip>
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To be honest the only reason that is there is to seperate the 2 Jedi so 1 can be killed whilst the other watchs.....Nuff said!


Certainly, the problem stems from the way in which these Jedi were seperated. Forgetting the completely nonsensical shield corridor, Obi-Wan, even if he was tired, had plenty of time to rest up waiting outside the shield gate to be able to force run when they opened, but instead, he just runs normally, and gets trapped one shield away from where he needs to be. I have no problem with the seperation, my problem is that they introduced a Jedi power at the beginning of the film, and then chucked it when said power would have been usefull. Had they never introduced the force run, I'd have no problem (except, of course, with the corridor and what the hell the logic is behind its operation)


Quote

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the droid issue
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ok ok ok ok my last comment cuz im bored & tired now......................DOES STAR WARS EXIST IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY? DO STAR WARS CHARACTERS SEEM OBSESSED WITH HAVING THE NEWEST T-16 SkyHopper TO BOMB AROUND IN OR DO THEY MERELY SEEM TO HAVE ONE SPACESHIP, ONE BLASTER & ONE SET OF CLOTHES (EXCEPT FOR PADME)?????????????????????????????????????????????? we're talking about science fiction here, not real life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


Actually, there are plenty of examples in the films to indicate that it's a capitalist society. Luke selling his speeder, complaining that since the new model came out no one wants the one he just sold. Uncle Owen buying used droids from the Jawas,. The very existence of smugglers. Cloud City Mining colony. The existence of Gangsters. Wattos junk shop where you can get parts for all manner of ships and vehicles. The stormtroopers on the deathstar chatting idly about the new land speeder that's just come out as ben Kenobi deactivates the tractor beam.

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Does it REALLY matter that the droids they use in the PT are the same they use in the OT?


Nope, it doesn't. However, that doesn't mean it's not a plot hole. It's an inconsequential detail, but it's still a plot hole, regardless of its overall importance.
Post
#55580
Topic
I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT - WHY SO MANY SW FANS DISLIKED THE PT...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55580/action/topic#55580
Time
The following quotes have been edited for spelling and ease of understanding:

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because Palpatine told them to, because Padme was young and easy to maniputate, and remeber the line in TPM "our situation will create a sympathy vote for us." Palpi told them to in order to became the Supreme Chancelor.

I'm sorry, but because the bad guy said so is not a good enough reason. The Trade Federation guys need to be getting something more out of it. Now, obviously they know that Sidious has some pull in the Senate, but they certainly don't know that he is Palpatine. So, there has to be some kind of monetary gain they expect to get out of this action. The problem is, nothing of the kind is ever made clear in the film. It's all well and good to say they have their reasons, but this is a movie, and plot points and motivations require some kind of explanation if they are to be accepted. On top of this, there's just no way Palpatine could have predicted the outcome that precisely. "Always in motion is the future". Certainly his motivations are political, but the issue here is not why Palpatine told them to do it, but why they went along with him. It's very doubtfull that he would have shared his plans with them, that would give them ammunition to use against him, Palpatine isn't that stupid, so there has to be something else to motivate their actions. The problem is it's never stated in the film, hence it's a plot hole.

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2.) The Jedi wear the same robes Obi-Wan did in ANH...<snip>
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everyone thought he was dead, even the people on Tatooine, so why not? and no one knew that he was a jedi. and his robe were on exactly like the jedi robes in the PT. and i think there are alot of ppl in the galaxy that dress in robes.

So your arguement is that lots of people where robes? Sorry, again that doesn't really cut it. The truth is that it's an oversight on GL's part. Sure, everyone thinks the jedi have been purged, but look at it this way. Say we one day decide to "purge" police officers. Then, this guy shows up in your city, keeps to himself, he's a hermit, but oddly, he's wearing a cops uniform all the time. Does this not make you suspicious? Granted, that's an extreme case. What I'm getting at is this, clearly, the clothing Kenobi wore on Tatooine was chosen to blend in with the natives. Look at Luke in ROTJ, what he's wearing is far more practical and functional than what Kenobi wore. Why would the Jedi dress in loose fitting, cumbersome, heavy robes? They aren't monks, they're keepers of the peace. They basically officers of the law, yet they dress in a manner that would hinder them in such a pursuit? I don't think so. What has obviously happened is that People just associate what Kenobi wore with Jedi, and so thats what they expect. The average viewer isn't thinking about why Kenobi is dressed the way he is, they just go "jedi=monks robes" and that's it.

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3.) Technology. It's a lot more advanced in the PT than in the OT.<snip>
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its not, and seriously this arguemnt is starting to f*ckin piss me off.


You'll have to come to terms with it, because I'm afraid it is.

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the reason they LOOK more advanced is because they use CGI, but in fact if you were to look at it more carefully, then you woulds see that it is not more advanced.


Really? What do you base this on? Seems to me that every single computer display and read out in the PT is far in advance of the sub 8-bit raster graphics of the OT. Why do the targeting and heads up displays in the naboo fighters make use of such advanced graphical capabilities when the Tie Fighters and X-Wings of the OT era are barely stick figure representations on the screen?

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is there anything like a Death star in the PT


No, but the Death star is not the measure by which we judge technical advancement. Not to mention, the design for the Death Satr exists by Episode II, the only reason it's not around is because the Empire is not around to build it yet. You'll notice that the blueprints for it in Episode II are much more advanced than they appear in Episode IV. The issue here is that no effort was made to match the displays of the PT to the displays of the OT, and as such, the OT displays, which were cutting edge back in the late 70's, look ridiculously dated, especially by comparison to the slick graphics used in the PT. It's a visual inconsistency which makes the PT technology appear more advanced than the OT.

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the transports in AOTC look primitive in a sense,


I wouldn't say they look primitive, just different. In fact, looking at the walkers of the PT, I think they look more advanced than the AT-ATs of the OT. They move faster, they seem more functional, being of a size that can be transoprted by a gunship. There's nothing about the walkers of the PT that says to me "these are certainly older and less sophisticated than the AT-ATs"

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maybe you should read some of the SW novels like the thrawn trilogy, SDs are far far far more advance then anything in the PT. the Tie fighters are fast and more nimble than the Naboo fighters, as are the x-wings, and y-wings.


I've read the Thrawn trilogy many times, I'm rereading it right now in fact. That has nothing to do with this arguement though. you can't rely on the books to prove your point, you can only look to the films. It's the visual evidence that we need to weigh here, not the EU. Has there been anything in the PT which definitively shows that the PT ships and tech are less sophisticated than the OT? the answer is no. In fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary. More sophisticated displays, Star Destroyed like ships capable of landing ona planet, faster walkers that can be carried by gunships, battle droids with built in shield generators, the tactical display of the Geonosian war room, Land speeders that are all so far beyond Luke's landspeeder in ANH. All of it points to technology in advance of the OT.

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4.) Protocol droids from 30 years before the OT are identical to the ones in the OT. <snip>
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ok, tell me why would you fix something that works.


Let me answer your question with another. Why do car companies continue to put out new models every year? Why do electronics companies continue to make newer Televisions, microwaves, DVD players, stereos, VCRs, cell phones, etc... Just because the technology works, doesn't mean the manufacturers just stop. The key to competitive business is continual innovation to make your product more desirable than your competitors.

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the droids were great then so why change what they look like.


For the same reason that car companies continue to produce new models and new designs.


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the other things that comes to minds is the fact that, in a civilization that has lasted for 4000 years, they have prefected driod design to the point where doing any more may not be productive.


That seems unlikely considering how poorly droids walk.

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Post
#55569
Topic
I THINK I FIGURED IT OUT - WHY SO MANY SW FANS DISLIKED THE PT...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55569/action/topic#55569
Time
Quote
For all it's faults, plot holes isn't one of them!!


I disagree. let's get to it shall we:

1.) The trade dispute between Naboo and the federation is never explained. There is no motivation at all. Why does the Federation invade? what is it Naboo imports or exports to make blockading them worthwhile? Naboo is supposed to be a smallish out of the way world, why would the federation blockade it instead of some more high profile world, like say, Alderaan?

2.) The Jedi wear the same robes Obi-Wan did in ANH. Kenobi was in *hiding*. He wore those clothes because everyone on tatooine wore simlar garb. If you're a Jedi in hiding, you don't wear your continue wearing your uniform.

3.) Technology. It's a lot more advanced in the PT than in the OT. I'm sorry, but any argument about the T being in a better time for the galaxy is just bull. You seriously think the Empire would revert back to more primitive technology? There's a difference between ship design becoming more mechanical and utilitarian during the empire years than an actual about face in technology. Hell, if a 9 year old slave can builed a pod racer with a more sophisticated graphical user interface than the x-wing and tie fighters of the OT, then something is seriously wrong.

4.) Protocol droids from 30 years before the OT are identical to the ones in the OT. Sorry, no advance in droid design in 30 years? I call shenanigans. The difference didn't have to be dramatic, but they should at least have made the effort.

5.) Force Powers. The Jedi have the ability to run super fast in the beginning of TPM, yet, when that power would have become usefull at the end of the film, with Kenobi, Qui-Gon, Maul and the shield corridor (and don't even try to explain the logic behind that one) it disappears. Some will argue Obi was tired, I say bull. It's just more dramatic if he doesn't make it through, so we convieniently forget about that power for the time being.

6.) Anakin built C-3PO? booooo. Yet somehow Kenobi, Vader, Owen Lars, and everyone who had ever come into contact with 3P0, and artoo for that matter, forget about them? Bull.

7.) The Hyperdrive is Leaking. What? When in the OT or anywhere else has it ever been suggested that the hyperdrive uses any kind of fuel? The hyperdrive is not an engine, it's an apparatus which punches the ship out of normal space and into hyperspace. There would be nothing for the hyperdrive to leak.

8.) Clone wars? what clone wars? These are clearly seperatist wars, that happen to be fought with clones.

9.) The empire is only 20 years old? Did anyone watching ANH come to the conclusion that the Empire was a mere 20 years old? well, considering the Empire doesn't come into existence until episode 3, and that Luke and leia are born in episode 3, and that in ANH they're both 20, yup, the Empire is only 20 years old.

10.) the general public in the OT don't believe in the Jedi anymore. How effective was the Emperor's smear campaign against them if in a matter of 20 years, everybody has forgotten them? Surely people in their 40's and up remember the Jedi? Surely those races who love a lot longer do to. What gives?

11.) Boss Nass is clearly not a Gungan. He doesn't have eyestalks, or a beak. His ears are similar, but that's difficult to tell since they're so much smaller, and tied back.

12.) How did they escape the blockade? There were dozzens of federation ships, the control ship at least had a compliment of droid fighters, it's likely all the others did too, so why didn't they launch?

13.) Why do they need the queen to sign the treaty? They've just illegally invaded an entire planet and subjagated its people, yet they have moral scruples about forgery? yeah right.

Well, there's a couple for ya.
Post
#55556
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55556/action/topic#55556
Time
The whole situation smacks of "1984" to me. I never thought it'd be George out to rewrite history to his preferred version. Clearly, titling this new release as simply "The Star Wars Trilogy" is an attempt on George's part to assert that this new cut is the one and only trilogy, and all that came before was merely work print, test bed, whatever you want to call it. The real hell of it though, is that this surely won't be the last release of the OT that's been tinkered with. When Episode III is over and done, I guarantee George will go back for his final pass on all the films, then release his definitive collection as a single saga, He'll probably title it "The Star Wars Saga" in hopes to replace everything that has come before, prequel and OT alike. Honestly, I couldn't care less. They are his movies, he can do what he likes. What bothers me is his insistance on not releasing the unaltered OT. Whether GL likes it or not, that film in that itteration is a piece of cinema history. A very large and signifigant piece. To pretend it never happened is to do a disservice not only to those who worked so hard to make it, and to those who fell in love with it and drove the marketing empire that made George what he is today, but to the entire world where the original became something more than just a movie, it became an integral part of the social fabric and popular culture. Mess with the saga all you like George, but don't try to erase history, you are a film maker, not Big Brother.

As for the arguement that there were 3 versions of the film at the time of its release. Sure, but how many copies of each, and how wide was the circulation on the 2 that weren't the Final cut? To my mind, those 2 alternate cuts could more easily and convincinly be called "work prints" than the final version, which is the one that went on to win so many awards and become a world wide phenomenon. The alternate cuts are an interesting historical curiousity of the star wars franchise, but the difference between that situation and the current situation is vast.
Post
#55483
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55483/action/topic#55483
Time
The ad campaign in question said "Own the Original Trilogy on Video, one last time". In further Print ads, "video" was defined as VHS and Laserdisc. So legally, yes, they have made a public declaration that the original would not be released again. However, the loophole also exists that they did not specify the DVD format. However, that's all an intellectual battle of symantics and legalese.

Jimbo, Chatlab, I'm not complaining here, I'm just laying down the legal facts of the matter. I'm not trying to make any value judgements about whether or not GL should release the original trilogy. The fact of the matter is, calling his current product "The Star Wars Trilogy" is misleading to the consumer public, because what he is selling is not the Star Wars Trilogy as it exists as a legal entity. What George is selling is an update of the Star Wars Trilogy Special Edition that he released in '97. If no effort is made to draw the consumers attention to that fact, then they are engaging in fraudulent misrepresentation of their product, regardless of GL's personal feelings of the matter.

Something to Consider, George Lucas has been pushing to replace the Director credits on Empire and Jedi because of the special editions and his revisions of them. That, in and of itself, clearly shows that these films are new entities, distinct from the original even in GL's mind. While GL refers to the original's as "Work prints" the Legal System will treat it differently. The films were released to the general public, and were available to them for 20 years before Lucas began "revising" his work. That, in the eyes of the law, makes them a finished product, as opposed to a work in progress. If GL were to successfully challenge that status, and have the Special Editions legally declared The Star Wars Trilogy, then he would be obliged at that point to return his oscar, and any other awards his "work print" had received, as they would no longer be valid. However, those are some really big ifs.

The Facts are, GL can not change history. That being the case, any attempt to call these new editions "The Star Wars Trilogy" without any manner of qualification as to what is actually contained in these prints, is fraudulent misrepresentation and is technically legally actionable. The question is, would it be worth the time, money and effort to persue it. Probably not.
Post
#55453
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55453/action/topic#55453
Time
Lucas may have notes and scripts to back up some of the changes he's made, but not all of them. The Greedo shooting first change is a prime example. fprgetting all that though, it doesn't matter if he can make the arguement that these aren't the special editions. So what> they aren't the original either. If he wants to get around the legalities of it, he would have to dub these something else like Star Wars Trilogy Version 3.0 or some other such nonsense. The Original trilogy is just that, the original trilogy. No matter how much GL wants to erase it from history, it can't be done. Calling this release "The Star Wars trilogy" without any kind of qualifier to let prospective consumers know that while these are star wars movies, they aren't the original versions, puts him on shakey ground. If Francis Ford Copolla went back and reshot and edited the Godfather films, and then released it as the godfather trilogy, he'd be in the same boat. That's why appocalypse now Redux is called what it is, because it's not Appocalypse Now, it's something else. So, just because these are these versions are the Star Wars trilogy to George, doesn't make them the Star Wars trilogy under the law.
Post
#55432
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55432/action/topic#55432
Time
Jimbo, I never said they'd get GL for being sketchy, I said the legal ground GL is on is sketchy. Same is true of Disney in regards to the Fantasia issue. The thing is, in both cases, no one ever takes these companies to task, so it slides. As for the Lion King, it was released as "The Lion King: Special Edition" so there's no legal issue there.

Bossk, I feel for your inner crying, I really do. The trick will be to convince the courts that you inner crying is worth some kind of monetary compensation. That's the hard part
Post
#55412
Topic
I'm thinking lawsuit...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55412/action/topic#55412
Time
From what I remember of my business law course, the legal ground GL is on right now is pretty shakey. Despite what Jimbo thinks, it is actually illegal to conduct misleading advertising. The problem is, most people don't get called on it. The fact of the matter is, GL is selling the Special Editions. They were introduced to the public as the Special Editions, they were branded as the Special Editions. Therefore, GL has an obligation to continue using that branding when refering to these new "improved" versions of his original trilogy. Defaulting to calling them Star Wars is certainly going to cause confusion amongst the average consumer. I'll wager the majority of them won't bother returning it, they likely aren't fanatical enough in their fandom to do such, but you can bet there will at least be some grumbling. As for what a lawsuit would accomplish, it's hard to say. Civil law in the US is a lot different than it is here in Canada. The crux of it will be to prove that some manor of signifigant harm was done to the consumer as a result of this misrepresentation, either emotionally or physically. Since neither is terribly likely, I'd say the chances of a lawsuit doing anything at all are really slim.
Post
#55214
Topic
The Original Trilogy - Laser Disc Conversion Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/55214/action/topic#55214
Time
Does anyone know what the difference in picture quality is between the Definitive Collection and the THX "Faces" collection? When it comes to making DVDs of the OT, obviously we want the highest possible picture quality going, but which is it going to be? The difinitive was remastered and in CAV, but the Faces collection was also remastered under the (at the time) new THX standard, but they're CLV.

Also, a question about different soundtracks, there's a version without 3PO's dialogue about the tractor beam?!? I had no idea, which version is that?

I currently have the Definitive edition, with corrected ESB disc, but I'm wondering if I should look into getting the faces release as well.