OutboundFlight

As a long time Clone Wars fan… I agree. It’s clear Filoni is way to attached to these characters. Just kill Ahsoka off already, it’s already asking much to have her survive into Rebels, but now she was the most highly qualified Jedi through the OT? So much for Luke.

Watch, they’re gonna retcon in Ahsoka to train Luke in between ESB and ROTJ and force a fake relationship a la Rey and Leia, thus nullifying any impact of Yoda.

Anakin Starkiller said:

I thought IX’s score was the weakest for relying so heavily on pre-existing themes.

It’s still fantastic (and remain the better parts of the movies), but I’d also rate both 8 and 9 on A tier, while the other 7 get S+ tier.

Darth Sadifous said:

DominicCobb said:

Speaking of the final scene, anyone working on force ghost Ben?

Honestly this is one of my most desired request. I’d like to see Ben phase in after Luke and Leia towards the end; similar to how Anakin joins Obi Wan and Yoda in RoTJ.

I was shocked in theaters this didn’t happen.

Lately, I’ve been toying around with making AOTC the first movie in the trilogy, followed by a major rework of TCW into a 2.5 hr format. Then, a 3 hr ROTS that combines the movie with Season 7 of TCW and the Battle of Coruscant from CW 05’.

I’ll play.

The first part I want to address are the characters (plot will be a later post). Everyone should have a strong concluding arc. Ideally, it will be something that was already begun in ANH and ESB, but worst-case scenario, we can just start something new.

LUKE SKYWALKER
The Luke in this draft will be much more conflicted than that of ROTJ, instead of suddenly losing any of the challenges from ESB. He leans towards the dark side, and his belief in his father is more desperate than sudden divine-like optimism. He also appears visibly distraught over his cyborg hand, to give ESB more weight. But his biggest change is seeing the Jedi and his father from an all-new perspective. It is less will Luke redeem Vader, and more will Luke stay a Jedi?

LEIA ORGANA
Leia needs to have a character arc beyond love in this story. Here most of her story is about filling in the footsteps of her father. We see many allies to the Rebellion are afraid of involvement, and it is up to Leia to convince them to fight not through war but diplomacy. Ironically it is very similar to Poe’s arcs in TROS, only it actually pulls through.

CHEWBACCA
I would make Chewie the main third character for this movie: a far cry from his glorified extra status in the Sequels, but even in the OT he was very simple and now would be the time to give him depth. We’ll go to Kashyyk and find Chewie was isolated long ago for his “modern” ways of thinking (most Wookies are isolationist, and avoid blasters and the like). Chewie faces his deepest fears by confronting his past and teaching them to be accepting of differences by using his skills to save his tribe from the Empire.

LANDO CALRISSIAN
Lando feels guilty for betraying Han, despite everyone forgiving him. He eventually gets a pep talk from Leia, but it is only when Han shows indifference for the betrayal and is more pleased he is now with the rebellion that Lando is able to move forward. With Han’s absence in the 1st and 2nd Acts, Lando fills his shoes as the cocky gunslinger.

HAN SOLO
Han will only appear towards the end of the movie. His absence is used to create a feeling of emptiness within the trio, and when he returns it will be a triumphant moment. As such he doesn’t have much an arc.

DARTH VADER
I want to show both his fall and rise in this film. I will do this with the help of a Jedi Holocron Luke acquires early into the first act, which whenever he looks into is strangely sent to view Anakin’s past (more or less the same as the PT). In truth, Palpatine nitpicked through key memories to give Luke a negative perception of the Jedi. Vader’s redemption doesn’t change much. To build tension, Vader appears unwaveringly loyal to the Emperor, and it is only at the last second that he snaps.

MOFF PIETT
Recently promoted, Piett is now in command of the in-progress Death Stars. He’s different from ESB: he appears annoyed by the increasing loss of his men to Palpatine and Vader’s tantrums and is almost regretful of the present situation. The Sith even call him out on it: “I sense doubt in you, Piett”. When Leia arrives with a fleet of new recruits, Piett is inspired by their heroics and refuses the order to destroy Kashyyk - unfortunately, Palpatine’s Assassin Droids instantly execute him and his men, and go through with the plan.

Expect my plot post in a couple of days.

Anakin Starkiller said:

What’s it a draft of?

Funny: I don’t have a name for it. But it’s my first installment for a planned series, set in the far future within the Andromeda galaxy. Humans are one of many species and resemble a third world nation in political power. I was inspired by George RR Martin’s initial concept for Game of Thrones: take something you really enjoy (Fantasy, or in my case Soft Sci-Fi) and complicate it with depth and lore you could only get from an extended book series.

The story is about the Terran Republic’s Civil War, starting off with six-point of view characters (4 Republic, 2 Alliance) but it will probably expand in future books. The Senate votes in favor of a new bill banning all blue-collar jobs (this is in the far future, so robots are already doing this too much extent, and physical labor is technically more dangerous than anything by this point). But while it’s not going to harm the inner systems, the outer systems are pissed. Not only would it harm their economy, but the Electoral College is also clearly biased in letting a few populated worlds have all the say. Plus, Tygar Heavy Engineering owns most of the robots and they have a long history of corruption – are they pulling the strings to enhance their profits?

The key to understanding this is no one is the bad guy. Each faction is justified. There are a few sadistic characters here or there, but they are fighting for the same cause as one of the heroes. It’s all a matter of perspective.

The outer worlds threaten to succeed from the Republic as the Alliance of Free Planets. To solve the situation peacefully, the factions agree to last-minute negotiations aboard a Terran Star Dreadnought, in neutral space. And that’s where the first book starts off…

SilverWook said:

OutboundFlight said:

SilverWook said:

Have any of you guys ever used a professional proofreading service?

For my wip draft, I’ve just been using Grammarly. It does a good job (for a droid). I’ll proofread it myself during revisions.

Interesting. I wonder how it would handle a fantasy novel with a lot of made up names and words? I’m having eyesight troubles unfortunately, which will make proofreading more difficult.

It often calls a made-up word a typo, but it almost never auto corrects, so you just have a (more visible than normals word spell check) line you can hover over to fix or ignore. I like it, but worst case scenario you could always try increasing the font size and proofreading from there.

SilverWook said:

Have any of you guys ever used a professional proofreading service?

For my wip draft, I’ve just been using Grammarly. It does a good job (for a droid). I’ll proofread it myself during revisions.

I think this is an awesome concept. It is new (not another Palpatine rehash), but still fitting to the rest of the saga (whereas the Vong were so different than the Empire they don’t make much sense as the big bads).

Long live the Sith!

ShamanWhill said:

OutboundFlight said:
Having reread a few sites discussing what little we know of Lucas’s ideas, I think it’s safe to say the Whills would serve as the main protagonists and antagonists. Based off the only Lucas canon – the OT, the PT, and TCW – the force is best understood as divided into the light and dark sides. The Jedi were not perfect but there is nothing from Lucas that suggests they need widespread reform.

I saw this concept art picture of Darth Talon, with a shadowy figure hovering behind her (https://miro.medium.com/max/2063/1*-ez8L1awc_mE6G4kac6Gwg.jpeg). The caption by the concept artist described the shadowy figure behind her as the puppeteer manipulating her. I think it would be interesting if we made this an Evil Whill. Maybe Darth Plagueis found a way to secretly preserve his own consciousness after death through the Midi-Chlorians as the Jedi had. He searched and found a Force Sensitive Twi-lek with attractive features and manipulated her to seduce the Jedi Killer and turn him against Luke.

We can drop the Plagueis idea if you’d like, but I think we’d still need to explain where this Evil Whill came from.

OutboundFlight said:
So I think we would learn that there is a Dark Whill somewhere that has brought evil into the galaxy, cheesy as it may be, and this being was what corrupted Sidious in the first place. Keeping in mind this would remain a Skywalker / Solo drama, I think Ben Solo may be the Dark Whill’s “next target” and start corrupting him to restart the Sith, and it will be up to Luke’s daughter to redeem her cousin and break the cycle.

Ben Solo would be Sam Solo. In George’s trilogy, he wasn’t Force sensitive. However, the Jedi Killer left a real impact on Luke, so I’m toying with the idea of him being Luke’s son.

I don’t know if Luke should have an heir though. You’d need to explain where his wife is, and if he changed that rule in the Jedi Order, and as you said there’s no evidence that George wanted the Jedi way to be changed. If Kira was Luke’s daughter, than we would have to go down the route that Luke doesn’t know and she was hidden as a child by her Mother who was in trouble and is now deceased.

This is a very good base plan. At this point, I don’t think there is much more we can do without creating our own story out of things we would like to see.

In that vein, I will make a few suggestions. Trying to keep in the Lucas Lore but all my ideas are really fanfiction at this point.

– Darth Talon would make for an interesting antagonist, but I don’t think she should live past Episode 8. Perhaps Jedi Killer kills her in an act similar to Snoke’s death in TLJ. If the Dark Whill / Plaguies remains the big bad it won’t be as crazy as the DT… it would be more Jedi Killer promoting himself to directly serving the Dark Whill.

– If we go the Sam Solo route, I’d prefer to make it so that Sam thinks he doesn’t have the force because he doesn’t have a natural affinity to it like Kira. But perhaps in the 9th episode, he realizes he had it all along, he just needed to believe he had it in the first place.

– Jedi Killer could work as Luke’s very first apprentice, sorta like Kyp Durron in the EU. Luke sees on him as living proof of his early failures, from before his academy was properly established.

– Why not make Kira’s mother a mystery? Luke never tells her who her mother is, and she spends a while wondering who it might be. It could another Jedi (inspired by Mara Jade) in hiding that returns by Episode 9.

Let’s get back on track.

Having reread a few sites discussing what little we know of Lucas’s ideas, I think it’s safe to say the Whills would serve as the main protagonists and antagonists. Based off the only Lucas canon – the OT, the PT, and TCW – the force is best understood as divided into the light and dark sides. The Jedi were not perfect but there is nothing from Lucas that suggests they need widespread reform.

So I think we would learn that there is a Dark Whill somewhere that has brought evil into the galaxy, cheesy as it may be, and this being was what corrupted Sidious in the first place. Keeping in mind this would remain a Skywalker / Solo drama, I think Ben Solo may be the Dark Whill’s “next target” and start corrupting him to restart the Sith, and it will be up to Luke’s daughter to redeem her cousin and break the cycle.

I think this is a fairly basic plan that would fit well within the established lore of Lucas.

Obligatory self advert for Death of the Author, where Sparky, myself, and a few others are brainstorming our own “canon”

https://discord.gg/Y7zAhj

I don’t think there’s anything wrong in wondering what Lucas would have done. He is the creator of SW so he holds a bit of sway. And we can invent our own canon, even if it doesn’t hold any credibility. And likewise, Disney has every right to do as they please now that they own the franchise. Overall, canon is a stupid idea and anyone can do as they please.

yotsuya said:

OutboundFlight said:

All due respect: I’ve never understood this argument. I understand Taoist traditions, but I can’t comprehend a “good dark side user”. Love and passion aren’t equivalent to darkness, they just lead you to it if you aren’t careful.

Dare I say it, I don’t think the Jedi did anything wrong during the Clone Wars. A genius outsmarted them. Had Palpatine not been involved Anakin would have either peacefully left their order or broken off with Padme and firmly joined their cause. I just can’t see the Jedi losing the PT because they were “too good”.

And yet there is that bit that is in several of the films where the Jedi admit they are having problems with the force. How would that be the case if they were just outsmarted. There is an imbalance. I see the imbalance (and I did before the ST) as the good force users ignoring the dark side of the force. They are taught to ignore it because it is too tempting. They are never taught how to wrestle with it and stay on the light side and maintain balance. That is why Anakin fell so easily. He was never taught how to fight the temptation of the dark side. So in the PT and OT you have the force splintered into the far light and the far dark. Jedi are supposed to be closer to the center. They should know how to tap into the dark side as needed, but not let it tempt them or consume them. The Jedi need to be in balance themselves. They have banned attachments because it could lead to the dark side rather than teach the young Jedi how to be attached and not be tempted by the dark side.

If the old EU lore holds true, the Sith started out as fallen Jedi. So the order split. And to balance the force the order needs to be whole again. Since people are not easily changed, the easiest way to do that is to wipe everything out and start over. Well, Palpatine wiped out the Jedi and the Sith tradition of only two, a master and an apprentice, left the Sith side vulnerable to defeat. We see Luke learn that final balance in ROTJ as he taps into the dark side to defeat Vader and the lets it go. Vader kills Palpatine and himself in the process leaving only Luke… until someone resurrects Palpatine (everyone confirmed that he was indeed dead at the end of ROTJ). Luke is balanced, but late Republic Jedi taught. As issues arise, the balance is not maintained. The ST we got is about perfecting that balance. So Rey is NOT Jedi trained in the Old Republic traditions, but has the original Jedi text… from the age when they were balanced. Luke noted she was not afraid of the dark side. To her it is all just the force. Revelation of her origins tests that balance, but she regains it.

It isn’t a matter of which side of the force you use, it is all in how you use it and why. The user must be balanced. The user must maintain control. Anakin was consumed by the dark side. Palpatine isn’t just consumed, he is the embodiment of the dark side. He is chaos. The Late Republic Jedi have made their order all about keeping order and following rules and avoiding the dark side at any cost. They placed good an evil onto the natural order of things when the good and evil lies in how the force is used, not the force itself. So the destruction of Palaptine does bring about the balance to the force because he is chaos and evil - the embodiment of everything bad. The first time Luke has just found that balance and all is good for a time. The second time, Rey is that balance and has destroyed even the Sith loyalists leaving no one to bring it back. The Jedi order has been reset to where it was 1000 generations before.

But I still don’t understand. What does balance mean? Rey acts just like a regular Jedi only that she thinks she’s immune to the dark side in TLJ (but that’s far from the case in TROS). Luke, Obi-Wan, and Yoda were all calm and composed Jedi.

I don’t understand how you can use the dark side for good.

All due respect: I’ve never understood this argument. I understand Taoist traditions, but I can’t comprehend a “good dark side user”. Love and passion aren’t equivalent to darkness, they just lead you to it if you aren’t careful.

Dare I say it, I don’t think the Jedi did anything wrong during the Clone Wars. A genius outsmarted them. Had Palpatine not been involved Anakin would have either peacefully left their order or broken off with Padme and firmly joined their cause. I just can’t see the Jedi losing the PT because they were “too good”.

ShamanWhill said:

OutboundFlight said:

One thing I’d love to see is more emphasis on Anakin / Vader. I haven’t thought all this through but what if the main villains find a way to resurrect Darth Vader? But this is purely his “evil” form. In the process the force ripples and creates a reborn lightside Anakin (by Hayden Christensen) who acts like Gandalf the White. The two forces of the Chosen One literally collide, and in the end, his soul is at rest and the force balanced.

How would these personalities of Anakin manifest themselves? How would they appear to us?

I’m hesitant of this idea, because it ultimately ends up creating an “evil-twin” confrontation, like a cheap 80s TV show. I’d like to think Star Wars is above that.

We do know that there are no souls in Star Wars. Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda and Qui-Gon are Force Ghosts because Qui-Gon learned how to preserve their consciousness after death from a Shaman of the Whills. So the dualism would have to be in Anakin’s consciousness.

I mean, you could set it in Anakin’s consciousness, although it would be kinda weird. The problem is Star Wars is the story of Darth Vader, and you can’t just reset the entire world for an excuse to tell a new story, imo. If there was a prequel prequel series that gave more context beyond Anakin, I think it would work smoother, but with just three extra movies it is hard to suddenly lurch the series into a new direction.

One thing I’d love to see is more emphasis on Anakin / Vader. I haven’t thought all this through but what if the main villains find a way to resurrect Darth Vader? But this is purely his “evil” form. In the process the force ripples and creates a reborn lightside Anakin (by Hayden Christensen) who acts like Gandalf the White. The two forces of the Chosen One literally collide, and in the end, his soul is at rest and the force balanced.

NFBisms said:

The nose art scene is gone, but I’d say what we got was better?

I suppose it’s odd that Anakin knows that Obi-Wan knows. Or that Rex knows at all. It felt like a very fanservice-y moment for sure, but I genuinely do not really care about much of anything else in this arc. I don’t particularly like the Bad Batch, and Echo honestly meant more dead (as another one of the fallen dominoes) than he ever did while he was alive. But more Anakin/Obi-Wan/Padme dynamic? I’m here for all that.

The Rex - Echo scene surprised me in how sad it was. I didn’t care much for him beforehand nor in Episode 1, but to see Rex feel so emotionally beaten by the war and Echo so tired puts the everyday clone’s emotions into perspective. I think it’s worth it.

As for the Nose Art, what we got was 100x better so I don’t really care.

FreezingTNT2 said:

OutboundFlight said:

Rey should struggle with being no one

Keep in mind that Rey never actually wanted to know who her parents were: she was just waiting for her family to return, before accepting that they will never return, as Maz Kanata points out in The Force Awakens. This is one of the reasons why Rey starting to cry when Kylo made her admit that her parents were nobodies right before he reveals that her parents did not care about her and actually sold her did not make any sense.

In Episode VIII, Rey’s arc should be feeling rejected by her new surrogate family (Luke) and joining Kylo after he lies that everybody she has known in her life has rejected her. In Episode IX, she would find out the truth, redeem herself and reject Kylo, accepting her surrogate family as her “real family” (you know what I mean 😉).

I completely agree. It’s one of the reasons I don’t like Rey in TLJ, it feels too much like it was subverting our expectations. I really wish JJ hadn’t made mystery boxes to begin with and just said her family is no one (Palpatine would still work as a surprise later).

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

In the same way thinking Luke should be the son of a Great Fallen Jedi wasn’t a “theory”, but a fact that was established in ANH that they reversed?

I mean yeah they’re both retcons. But I’d argue, while one deepens and complicates the character’s journey midway through, the other cheapens, diminishes, and reorients the character’s journey right as it’s supposed to be reaching its conclusion.

Besides how stupid Rey Palpatine is, there’s a big difference between doing it in part 2 and part 3. Once you’re 2/3 of the way into a story, you can’t change it that drastically and expect people to think it works.

I disagree. It’s just different ways of telling the story. You could have told an amazing story about avenging one’s death, which would have fundamentally changed Star Wars but would still have worked fine (see: John Wick, ok maybe that’s not a good example but you get the point).

I also didn’t find them dropping this in part 3 an issue, but this probably comes down to personal preference. TROS does have a ridiculous pace, I find it charming but understand the dislike.

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

I understand your point of view. It is kind of hypocritical that TLJ fans constantly say, “You just didn’t like TLJ because your fan theories didn’t come true!” while simultaneously making fan theories about TROS and being upset when they don’t come true.

Incorrect. For instance, thinking Rey should be a nobody in TROS wasn’t a “theory.” It was a fact that was established in TLJ that they reversed. That’s completely different.

In the same way thinking Luke should be the son of a Great Fallen Jedi wasn’t a “theory”, but a fact that was established in ANH that they reversed?

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

I think the issue is a lot of people wanted “Rey Solana” to be the message. That anyone can be a Jedi. TROS keeps this idea but renames it, now anyone can be a Skywalker. It actually builds on the themes of the TLJ, where Luke Skywalker was a legend. Now, anyone can be a legend.

I really don’t agree with this. Why does Rey have to be an honorary Skywalker in order to show that anyone can be a legend? Why can’t Rey make her own legacy, beyond the words “Skywalker” and “Palpatine”? Is it impossible to be a legend unless you change your last name to Skywalker? This is the kind of stuff TLJ was trying to avoid, so I don’t understand why you think Rey Palpawalker builds on the themes of TLJ any more than keeping Rey Nobody would.

I suppose we saw different TLJs, because it’s clear to me the only impact Luke had at the Battle of Crait was his name. Had he been some random Jedi, no one would have cared. Then Luke claims he will not be the Last Jedi, and we Rey: evidence that she will carry on the traditions, not create new ones. It’s not ideal: I agree there’s a lot of errors in the concept, what about the other Jedi etc. But I see it as consistent throughout the ST.

I guess we have seen different movies, because I never got the implication that Rey was going to become an honorary Skywalker from TLJ. Luke said “I will not be the last Jedi,” not “I will not be the last Skywalker.” And just because Luke’s last name is famous doesn’t mean Rey has to adopt it.

No, she definitely doesn’t. She could have not adopted the name and it would have been fine. But it’s more powerful if she literally takes up the name of a family she has chosen to be a part of. It’s RJ’s “I will be a Jedi” just more direct.

NeverarGreat said:

The issue with her taking the name Skywalker is that it is a quixotic conclusion to her character arc. Rey spends three movies searching for a family, and ends by taking the name of a family that is now vanished from the galaxy. Sure, she feels comfortable carrying on the Skywalker legacy (at least the good one(s) anyway), but this does little to satisfy her need for a real living family in whatever form that takes. It’s a big missed opportunity because now there is a galaxy of young people who have been stripped of their parents, potentially forever. Will they all take the name Skywalker? Will Finn? There is no indication of this, and it throws into tension her emotional reunion with Finn and Poe, her presumed new ‘family’. The movie also seems to forget that Rey’s real parents died heroically to save her, so not taking their name is another instance of the film throwing a rake in front of itself to trip over.

Beyond these particular tensions, there is an even larger tension with the final scene, and it has to do with the hero’s journey. In the archetypal tale our hero goes forth on adventure and returns home fundamentally changed in some way. The final scene of a mythic tale gives answer to the final question regarding the hero, that of whether they will return to society or whether the journey has changed them too much to ever truly return. Frodo cannot return to the Shire, instead sailing to the Undying Lands to be healed. Luke does return to society in the final scene of Return of the Jedi, leaving the ghosts of the past to join in the celebration. So what does Rey do?

The penultimate scene of TROS implies that despite being changed by her journey, she will return to society and live happily among them. This is a sufficient answer and completes her arc. However the final scene flips this assumption. Now she is reviving the ghosts of the past through her name and ending the film alone on a desert planet. If she were merely going there to bury the past it wouldn’t necessarily be an issue, but the name implies a connection with this isolation that she will never be rid of. She both does and does not return to society simultaneously, and this is why I find it so frustrating.

I never interested the final scene as Rey forever being the Last Jedi. She only came there to end off the saga. After looking into the binary sunrise (symbolizing a new beginning) Rey will go back to her friends and hopefully rebuild the Jedi Order.

I agree with this. I’ve never understood the argument that “Rey ends the movie on Tatooine, therefore she’s going to spend the rest of her life there!” She was just going there to bury the sabers at Luke’s childhood home. After that she’ll probably go back to the Resistance and continue the Jedi legacy.

And Rey still struggles with the ideas of family. It’s just not in the ways most interpreted based off TLJ. She has already answered the obvious question of if she can have a family in the resistance (she was never too sad by the fact she’s a nobody). Instead, it’s all about if she can keep it: she is afraid the others will distance her for being the granddaughter of Palpatine. It’s more a test of what she has accomplished so far, after spending TFA and most of TLJ yearning to return to the past, she now stands firmly with the future.

I understand that point of view, I just wish it was made more clear in the movie. As it stands, Rey’s character arc in TROS is basically, “Oh no, this evil person is my ancestor! Will I become good like my friends or evil like him?” That’s essentially just Luke’s arc repeated again, so it seems less original than keeping Rey as a nobody.

I feel differently. In theory, ROTJ was about will Luke turn evil. But I don’t think they really ever push that forward. It’s only with Palpatine that it’s even brought up, at the end of the story, and even then Luke is still convinced that Vader will turn good until the very end. Rey is more direct. She has dark side force powers that she struggles to control, which (appears) to have a tragic effect. It felt more grounded in the story for me.

Overall, I think a lot of the hate towards TLJ comes to… ok I’m sorry for bringing this quote up again… but your subversion of expectations.

TLJ set some concepts up and I think maybe in part of the constant debate that’s ensued over the past two years, the majority has come to a basic conclusion of what Episode 9 must do. Without considering RJ left things very open.
–Rey should struggle with being no one
–Rey should find a balance between the old and new
–Rey should rebuild the Jedi Order

The thing is TROS goes in another direction that remains consistent with The Last Jedi. Rey never was too shocked about being no one in TLJ. She cried, yes, but an hour later was happy as can be and two hours later talking to Leia about rebuilding. So why do we have to follow Rey coming to terms with something she already did off-screen? TROS gives us something new, and honestly, I was invested in whether Rey would join Palpatine and we’d get a dark Rey / good Ben fight. Kinda sad we didn’t actually.

StarkillerAG said:

OutboundFlight said:

I think the issue is a lot of people wanted “Rey Solana” to be the message. That anyone can be a Jedi. TROS keeps this idea but renames it, now anyone can be a Skywalker. It actually builds on the themes of the TLJ, where Luke Skywalker was a legend. Now, anyone can be a legend.

I really don’t agree with this. Why does Rey have to be an honorary Skywalker in order to show that anyone can be a legend? Why can’t Rey make her own legacy, beyond the words “Skywalker” and “Palpatine”? Is it impossible to be a legend unless you change your last name to Skywalker? This is the kind of stuff TLJ was trying to avoid, so I don’t understand why you think Rey Palpawalker builds on the themes of TLJ any more than keeping Rey Nobody would.

I suppose we saw different TLJs, because it’s clear to me the only impact Luke had at the Battle of Crait was his name. Had he been some random Jedi, no one would have cared. Then Luke claims he will not be the Last Jedi, and we Rey: evidence that she will carry on the traditions, not create new ones. It’s not ideal: I agree there’s a lot of errors in the concept, what about the other Jedi etc. But I see it as consistent throughout the ST.

NeverarGreat said:

The issue with her taking the name Skywalker is that it is a quixotic conclusion to her character arc. Rey spends three movies searching for a family, and ends by taking the name of a family that is now vanished from the galaxy. Sure, she feels comfortable carrying on the Skywalker legacy (at least the good one(s) anyway), but this does little to satisfy her need for a real living family in whatever form that takes. It’s a big missed opportunity because now there is a galaxy of young people who have been stripped of their parents, potentially forever. Will they all take the name Skywalker? Will Finn? There is no indication of this, and it throws into tension her emotional reunion with Finn and Poe, her presumed new ‘family’. The movie also seems to forget that Rey’s real parents died heroically to save her, so not taking their name is another instance of the film throwing a rake in front of itself to trip over.

Beyond these particular tensions, there is an even larger tension with the final scene, and it has to do with the hero’s journey. In the archetypal tale our hero goes forth on adventure and returns home fundamentally changed in some way. The final scene of a mythic tale gives answer to the final question regarding the hero, that of whether they will return to society or whether the journey has changed them too much to ever truly return. Frodo cannot return to the Shire, instead sailing to the Undying Lands to be healed. Luke does return to society in the final scene of Return of the Jedi, leaving the ghosts of the past to join in the celebration. So what does Rey do?

The penultimate scene of TROS implies that despite being changed by her journey, she will return to society and live happily among them. This is a sufficient answer and completes her arc. However the final scene flips this assumption. Now she is reviving the ghosts of the past through her name and ending the film alone on a desert planet. If she were merely going there to bury the past it wouldn’t necessarily be an issue, but the name implies a connection with this isolation that she will never be rid of. She both does and does not return to society simultaneously, and this is why I find it so frustrating.

I never interested the final scene as Rey forever being the Last Jedi. She only came there to end off the saga. After looking into the binary sunrise (symbolizing a new beginning) Rey will go back to her friends and hopefully rebuild the Jedi Order.

And Rey still struggles with the ideas of family. It’s just not in the ways most interpreted based off TLJ. She has already answered the obvious question of if she can have a family in the resistance (she was never too sad by the fact she’s a nobody). Instead, it’s all about if she can keep it: she is afraid the others will distance her for being the granddaughter of Palpatine. It’s more a test of what she has accomplished so far, after spending TFA and most of TLJ yearning to return to the past, she now stands firmly with the future.

I think the issue is a lot of people wanted “Rey Solana” to be the message. That anyone can be a Jedi. TROS keeps this idea but renames it, now anyone can be a Skywalker. It actually builds on the themes of the TLJ, where Luke Skywalker was a legend. Now, anyone can be a legend.

Having finally gotten the time to watch it, this is some of the prettiest animation I’ve seen. Maybe there just because the big animated movies all use the same style while this is more blocky, but wow!

Not only have the models improved in detail and textures (no longer as “smooth” as 4-6) the lighting got a huge update. I could pause at random point and just look at it for a minute straight.

The story, eh, nothing awesome, but solid nonetheless. I’m still so happy we’ve got it for the next three months.

Sounds really cool!