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OgOggilby

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22-Feb-2006
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5-Sep-2007
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Post
#200749
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/200749/action/topic#200749
Time
Sorry, I'm having computer troubles...

If Williams DID intend that piece to open the film, then it could be added back in, right? It's a lovely piece of music (along with the love theme and its variations), but it would be neat to re-instate stuff.

Also, I was wrong on Langdon! It turns out my DVD box set of silent comedies has THREE of his. How soon do you need the DVD-R of the documentary clips? With another day or two, I can add an entire 2nd DVD-R just with silent film clips that reflect what's in the film.

Oh, and get this.... in my business/professional communications class, we have to do a proposal presentation. We were going to do one on getting Georgia State University a football team and stadium, but we realized we can't do a lot of research in two weeks. So, we're looking for another topic... If I can convince the other people in my group to go ahead with it, I think it would be neat. It'll be easy for the group since I can just link up all the stuff you've found - and I'm doing a term paper on "Thief" anyways.
Post
#200709
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/200709/action/topic#200709
Time
I'll have to disagree. I absolutely love the music of Vaughan Williams, but the "imitation" opening music is still fantastic. Who composed it, though? All the original music in the film is excellent, so it's sad that whoever is responsible is still anonymous. Perhaps it really was George Martin?

I'm including a ton of RVW music, as well as 20 tracks from a Aram Khachturan CD (which included "Dance of the Boys" which is briefly heard during the one-eye march sequence) on the DVD-R I'm sending you.

I also got a hold on some Chaplin 2-reelers from 1916, so I'll include those as reference. There's some Jacques Tati clips I'll include, too since there's one obvious homage to a part from M Hulot's Holiday. It has to do with a single line.

I'm let down, though, that I can't find any Harry Langdon shorts in my DVD collection. I just bought an analog video capture unit, so I'll just have to transfer my copy of "The First Hundred Years" for you. Seriously, once you see one of his shorts, it'll be so obvious how Tack was modeled after him.

But you'll be getting the clips from AA/IDRR, all that classical music (I think I'll thrown some Raymond Scott/Charlie Chaplin CD's while I'm at it - you'll have to decide if the music is appropriate or not), the extra clips, the full 2-disc RR set, "The Raven" with Vincent Price, and whatever else I can find to fill up a DVD-R or two.
Post
#200147
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/200147/action/topic#200147
Time
I'd imagine the workprint is among the Miramax materials. Although, it looks like it was cut up further for the Calvert workprint.

I can only find two Vaughan Williams pieces... Fantasia on a Theme From Thomas Tallis and Fantasia on Greensleeves.

Neither seem to fit. I ran the music clip to a few music historians, so maybe they'll find out.

Faceman: terrific job. The colors looked really dull on the field. Judging from other adjoining shots, they were the wrong color since the grass around Tack's cell is bright green, along with where the royals sat.

Also... it might be a good idea to crop the left side of the image a little bit. I found that you can occasionally see the edges of cels. The shot with the eunuchs holding swords to Tack's throat shows that the one on the far left doesn't fill the edge, causing you to see a little ribbon of the background. Also, some moments have visible splice lines - they're not supposed to be visible.
Post
#199801
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199801/action/topic#199801
Time
Oh, I was talking about really early in the film. The script has this elaborate fight between Tack, the guards, etc. when you first see Zig-Zag. Tack starts hitting them with his hammer and stuff.

Here's the part I was talking about:

DWARF and EUNUCHS:
Have no fear! Have no fear!
Zigzag the Grand Vizier is here!

INT. THE COBBLER'S SHOP
The Thief and the sleeping Cobbler are now so stitched
together that it appears that four hands are doing the work.
The offscreen procession is outside.
Tack hammers the Thief's head. The Thief can't stand it and
grabs the cobbler's nose. Tack is shocked awake and jumps up - tied
face to face with the Thief.
The Thief tries to escape and they roll entwined down the
stairs, crashing into the street with chickens, dogs, cats, spools and
tacks flying everywhere, and land in a heap at Zigzag's feet.
The commotion makes the carpet late and Zigzag steps onto
an upright tack.

ZIGZAGVincent Price)
Yeeeeoooowwww!

The Cobbler is bewildered. The Thief hides behind him,
unstitching himself, trying to act as a shadow.

ZIGZAGpointing to Tack)
Seize him! Take him! Seize him! Take him!

The four courtiers echo their master.

GOPHER, GOBLET, SLAP and TICKLE:
Seize him! Take him! Seize him! Take him!

The Cobbler makes a run for it, dragging the Thief. GUARDS
appear and encircle the Cobbler's throat with spears. They trample all
over the Thief - who escapes into the crowd.
Tack shakes with fear, then zips down and with lightning
speed and shoemaker's dexterity he runs around at ground level,
attacking their toes with hammers - as if playing a xylophone. The
Guards HOWL.

Tack breaks free only to have a second wave of Guards rush
at him with spears. He reaches into his 'knapsack' pants and throws
handfuls of reels and spools beneath their feet and they tumble.
A third wave of Guards comes at him, spears outstretched.
Again Tack drops low and darts in and out stitching their pantlegs
together. He tugs and they collapse. He looks to escape but FOUR
HUGE EUNUCHS glide up behind him. SWISH! A scimitar crosses
his throat. SWISH! Another behind his neck. SWISH! Another.
SWISH! And another. They tighten round his throat.

ZIGZAG:
Take him into the palace!

---

It would actually justify why Zig-Zag is eager for him to be beheaded... but it's not necessary because not having that scene reinforces that Zig-Zag is a rotten bastard.

I'm finally reading through the script and some parts are very Calvert-ish. Like a sign with Tack's name on it while Sir Almyer is mentioning his name... the film has repetition, but not redundancy. The dragon scene does seem neat and it would have been a good idea to keep it since it would allow another cutaway from the thief in the war machine. Although, maybe it would be too obvious.
Post
#199694
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199694/action/topic#199694
Time
What's interesting is that Yum-Yum is really beautiful and sexy - but she's calling the shots a lot. Compare to Aladdin where Jasimine is pretty naive and shallow.

This is why the idiotic "feminazi" slant added by Calvert's team was pointless. Yum-Yum is already quite a leader and outside of the normal conventions of princesses in films. She saves Tack, goes on the journey to the Witch, and calls on the brigands.

Come to think of it, "Thief" breaks a lot of rules in terms of characters. Whenever the egos of Zig-Zag and Mighty One-Eye are going over the top the film basically mocks them. Phido just rolls his eyes at Zig-Zag when he's attention whoring to him. Mighty One-Eye has the long drawn-out speech while the one survivor is getting away. King Nod acts a little senile, but it's hinted that he was probably once a great fighter (the original dream scene with him punching the air).

Tack is sort of a reluctant hero, but he's always doing what's good for everyone else. Peaceful and calm, too - this is why I'm glad the fight was cut out between Zig-Zag stepping on a tack and him being carried off (it's in the script only). As Yum-Yum says, he's resourceful. He immediately goes to work breaking out of his cell, immediately ties up Roofless's shoes, and goes on a chase just for a shoe.

The thief? He's the best example of obsession in the film. It doesn't matter how many times he has to attempt to do so, he'll get the gold or jewels. Seems like a lot like how Richard Williams would allow things to be re-done over and over again until it was right. Yeah, it's impractical, but that's obsession.


Also, I went through The Princess and the Cobbler and that WIP again... all the vocal stuff they added for Zig-Zag is laughably bad. They recycled his laugh from the card shot twice in a row at one place. The one line of dialogue added ("What, cobbler?") is a horrible impression of Vincent Price. At times, I hated how squeaky Yum-Yum's voice was (Bobbi Page redubbed all of her for the Princess cut, right?) while Hilary Pritchard's voice was more intelligent. For those familiar with MST3K, the narration and new audio dubs are as bad as the narration for The Creeping Terror. Yes, we need to know that Tack is cobbling in his sleep since it's not obvious enough while we're looking at him...
Post
#199620
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199620/action/topic#199620
Time
Zig-Zag grinning is hilarious. No wonder Williams saved a lot of his shots for himself - every expression is great. It would be neat if you had a sheet with his expression for the end of "Shall we take his head away?" So delightfully sinister.

(I drew a quick sketch of that frame from the film - it's pretty bad, but I think I might attempt to draw some more again since the model sheets are bigger.)
Post
#198844
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198844/action/topic#198844
Time
Ok, I'm preparing the clips...

how much "leader" do you need on the clips... like, 5 seconds on the start and end? Would it be easiest to have all the clips separately?


By the way, I just noticed one altered gag in the workprint. In the script, the bit with King Nod and the maiden under the canopy... it's left to the imagination what's going on. In the script, it seems like there was supposed to be a gag showing that she's really rubbing Nod's feet. It looks like there was a lot more of a running gag with Yum-Yum breaking her shoes. There's also a short scene with Zig-Zag being pampered by his minions...

A lot of this script-only material is terrific, so I wonder why it wasn't even storyboarded. I really suspect a lot of it was at least intended to be in the film because it seems to link up some awkward parts better. It's also interesting to see how scenes were moved around like "Your name is Tack?" moved way back to the scene with Tack fixing Yum-Yum's shoe instead of after "Go away, bird of evil!"

The whole shapeshifting scene is really goofy, too. It seems like that and the sorcery stuff with Zig-Zag during the war machine sequence were cut out to downplay any real sort of magic. Neither really seem to fit the tone of the film.
Post
#198723
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198723/action/topic#198723
Time
Wow, finally some watchable quality sources? You know, if you obtain them, I'll just send over a DVD-R with all the clips.

BTW, you probably know this already, but the silent comedian Naisbitt was talking about is Harry Langdon. Here's a picture of him...

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA97/halnon/capra/langdon.jpg

I wish I could find a better image, but I think you can see the similarities. Langdon's character usually was shy and child-like. A lot of elements of Tack saving the city mirror the ending of The Strong Man (Langdon's best film).

While it's only speculation... if Williams was quite savvy about silents, I wonder if Mighty One-Eye was inspired by Eric Cambell (the villian in most of the twelve 2-reel comedies Charlie Chaplin made for Mutual Films in 1916):

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/6144/cure0vb.jpg
Post
#198336
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198336/action/topic#198336
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Verra nice ....


Don't forget to send me the stuff from the "kids version" of Roger Rabbit too! =D


BTW, I'm doing the reconstructions of both Animating Art and I Drew Roger Rabbit in NTSC 24p with stereo sound whenever applicable. What format do I need to use on the discs I'm going to send you? M2V for video and AC3 for audio?

It's taking me a bit longer than I hoped due to all the time it's taking for me to encode video. However, I was able to overlay a heavily noise reduced 720x480 version (which is full of smearing) with a special 320x240 version that wasn't as grainy. As a result, it's not too sharp, but it loses a lot of noise without being too smeary. I also pushed the color a little less yellowish. To be honest, I'm not going to put a lot of effort into trying to do more to the exclusive footage since there's not much to work with. However, the clips will look amazing. I got settings right in Vegas so that everything will be re-edited down to the frame. In fact, the 24p conversion of the AA video looks great... no ghosting or jagged edges.
Post
#198135
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198135/action/topic#198135
Time
It's funny to hear some of the "bad facts" in the trailer like saying Richard Williams created The Pink Panther. Not that it's not unflattering. There's also the obligatory "O Fortuna"

Given how much the merch. was stressed, it makes you wonder what kind of cool products they would have made. "Buy an authentic The Thief costume complete with realistic stench!"
Post
#198015
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/198015/action/topic#198015
Time
Oh, I'm finally going to get Animating Art and I Drew Roger Rabbit reconstructed over the weekend. It turns out that I have to submit some sort of previous work for a film production course, so I'm hoping to use some of my re-editing works. Although, isn't the whole point to learn how to do that stuff?

The problem I was having with getting stuff synched has been solved... I found that I can overlay much, much cleaner now.

Post
#196804
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/196804/action/topic#196804
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
http://www.xs4all.nl/~hwalther/images/Opc-ThiefCobbler.jpg

"One ... Eye?"

Man, I would love to have this cel. I'm jealous of the one who does.


She looks odd without her veil on.


Here's the cel as seen in the film:

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/7051/yyoneeye6bi.jpg

Also, here's the Saddam Hussein cameo:

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/604/saddamthief4na.jpg


Also, I was wondering why Zig-Zag was making some weird movements after tripping on Tack... I just noticed there are tacks stuck all over his arms. Ouch.

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/8150/zigzagstuck4bl.jpg
Post
#196330
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/196330/action/topic#196330
Time
Ok, I picked up some Vaughan Williams CD's... I haven't found the opening music yet, but I've listened to a little... there's a lot of music that would be PERFECT for the war machine sequence. I also found a piece that would make a good theme for the thief.

So, the opening music is not part of his symphonies 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9. I guess I'll try his first, fourth, and seventh next.