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OgOggilby

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22-Feb-2006
Last activity
5-Sep-2007
Posts
295

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Post
#196275
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/196275/action/topic#196275
Time
The part with you describing the Froot Loops release is really ironic. Did you know The Magnificent Ambersons was released as the second feature in a double-feature with "Mexican Spitfire Sees a Ghost"?

Also, that poster is EXACTLY what I'd think would make a good design if a real theatrical poster was released. I was going to ask about a "simplistic" design, so there it is.

Post
#196102
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/196102/action/topic#196102
Time
If it'll help any, I'm going to try to pick up all the Vaughan Williams CD's I can find at the GSU library (except for his 3rd, 5th, and 8th which I own) so I can try to find the opening music. iTunes wasn't a huge help since you only get a 30 second clip... and most of the symphony movements are 12-15 minutes long (the music itself in the film lasts roughly 2 minutes).
Post
#195875
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195875/action/topic#195875
Time
I might be wrong, but I pick up the Miramax R1 DVD at a store just to glance at the specs (hey, maybe it's 16x9) and I put it down after it said fullscreen. However, I do think it has only 3.0 stereo. The credits list only Dolby SR Spectral, which means a 5.1 mix would be a later creation. However, if it's really discrete 3.0, it might help.

I can't get over how awful the drawing of Zig-Zag is... no hat, you see his arms and looks oiled down. Blech.


And I'll be first in line to see whatever film Williams is working on now. Maybe he'll have the chance to get a film out before someone else tries to copycat.
Post
#195635
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195635/action/topic#195635
Time
I'm in the camp that agrees that this is purely Criterion material. If you've seen their excellent 3-disc set for Brazil... it has the entire 90-minute (note: 40 minutes shorter than Gilliam's director's cut) hack-job cut with a commentary noting all the changes. Also, Criterion is releasing a 3-disc set for Mr. Arkadin/Confidential Report (Orson Welles). Welles was taken out of the editing room, resulting in him never getting to finish the film his way. As a result, Criterion's set has the released version, a later re-cut by Corinth Films, and a new historian's comprehensive cut that is an estimate of Welles's intended cut.

They could put both Arabian Knight and The Princess and the Cobbler on one disc (72/80 minutes respectively - only 152 minutes). If a restoration happens, that would be the main star on the first disc. Another disc could have the workprint. All four versions in 2.35:1 anamorphic widescreen, too. As for extras, as seen with what has been found... there's the Thames documentary, the camera tests, maybe A Christmas Carol (who owns it), the storyboards (in still frame format), the best of RWS commercials, etc. No telling what stuff is out there in collections.

Criterion has even said they're interested in doing something animated, but nothing has really come to their attention... after all, most stuff is already being handled by studios well. They already have ties with Buena Vista (they've handled some Hollywood/Touchstone/Miramax films), they've done multiple cuts, they've included commercials (Kagemusha has Kurosawa's Suntory commercials), and even exclusive restorations (Spartacus).
Post
#195614
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195614/action/topic#195614
Time
I take it the main reason to keep the Zig-Zag/Tack fight has to do with the completed animation of Zig-Zag falling into the hole? I'm kind of annoyed since Zig-Zag is supposed to scream when he falls, rather than stepping on a tack (Calvert's invention). At least it's sort of a good addition, even if Williams just wanted Zig-Zag to fall into the hole. Too bad Calvert couldn't stick to decent additions like this and the thief being raised up instead of adding the terrible songs.

Did you get the actual tape (or a DVD-R burn)? The AVI on emule has too much compression.

The best thing is that it lacks all the halos on the 2nd gen tape, not to mention that with a bit of color correction on the yellow tint, it looks actually better color-wise than Miramax's DVD. Also, some of the sound effects in the workprint are vastly better than in the Princess version. For example, when Phido comes back and is swatted by Zig-Zag, there's a really neat effect when his "multi-purpose cane" extends into a flyswatter (and later some prods).

Although... now that it's so clear, all the scratches, hairs, and dirt are more obvious than before. Would you be able to remove them? Even if that's too elaborate, it would be neat if you could at least paint out the few reel change cue markers (both on the workprint and the Miramax DVD).
Post
#195541
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195541/action/topic#195541
Time
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/hands-swirls.jpg

Now you can finally see where the Miramax footage starts.

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/plaything.jpg

"a plaything"

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/one-eye.jpg

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/thief-end.jpg

More:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/polo.jpg

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/mountains.jpg

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/city1.jpg

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/lava.jpg

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/tack-first.jpg

The last one is a shot you omitted... I know it's not quite an introduction, but with this kind of quality, it might not be too much of a distraction.

I'm positive that all these artifacts (softness, jagged lines) are due to the AVI file. There's clearly a ton of detail in the source.
Post
#195421
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195421/action/topic#195421
Time
Here's the shot with Yum-Yum I was talking about:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/yumyumshoebreak.jpg

There's two shots in pencil form with her breaking the shoes.

You can see the pile of shoes in the finished shots, but the breaking is only in pencil form. It's easy to see when it's playing, but the compression makes it difficult to see in still form (I messed with the contrast to make it show up better). I was wondering why she was playing with her slippers... they were not the same as she had earlier. Now it makes sense.

Still, the clarity is still amazing me. The compression is obviously one reason why it's a little soft, so if the actual tape could be obtained, it would probably blend in perfectly.
Post
#195311
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195311/action/topic#195311
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Is that in the scene where the Thief steals her shoe?


Yeah. In the other copies, it's so blurry, you can barely see anything. In the new copy, you can clearly tell she's breaking shoe after shoe, with a large pile of them next to her.


Oh also, the music that comes in when the witch walks towards Tack... you can finally hear the accordian and drums in it!
Post
#195292
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195292/action/topic#195292
Time
You won't believe this... but this new workprint copy has such clear audio, you can tell that Phido DOES have a few "lines"

When Zig-Zag swats him with the flyswatter, you can make out "ow, my ass!" as if it was being squawked.

Also, in the bath scene, the shots from behind are clearly "mirrored" while frontal shots have "Mee-Mee"

There's a continuity problem, too... when the Thief takes the slipper from Tack, you can see the broken pipe in the window. Calvert forgot to add that!

When Zig-Zag is going through his "milk and honeyed land" speech, there's some music underneath it... which actually fades into the orchestral work during the flyover.

You can hear the eunuchs calling him through the whole "Oh ffff-Phido/you'll just have to wait" bit... it's very soft.

Throughout the whole scene with Zig-Zag in Mighty One-Eye's tent, you can hear drums beating.

You can hear all the fine echo within palace scenes... the reverb lasts about a second after speaking.

When King Nod is under the canopy with the maiden... it sounds like his mouth is full.

And I just noticed the fake soda ads behind the multi-lingual Buddha signs.... "Drink Karma-Kola" and "7thHeaven"

If you can get the actual tape, I'd imagine it would look almost seamless now. The video file is a little too compressed in spots, not to mention it's PAL. Combined with the special processing, it should look close to the Miramax DVD.


Oh, one comment from tonight's impromptu screening:

"I have never been so captivated by a movie. It was like being raped by a beautiful woman: bizarre but wonderful."
Post
#195177
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195177/action/topic#195177
Time
Oh, also... would 10 PM Eastern be a good time for a re-show tonight? I'm thinking of getting it aired.

Also, the new workprint source has better detail. The 2nd gen one has noise that "fakes" it to look more detailed. Notice that lines are much more visible... that's a better indicator of sharpness. I did a small test in VirtualDub... there's hardly any indicator of quality lost between the Miramax footage and the workprint. Low-res, yes, but I'd imagine the processing will make it look better.

Edit:

Never mind... I realized how much essential footage was finished post-Williams. Perhaps there's a way you can fix the eyes, though? At least for close-ups of Zig-Zag, it would be nice to not have those crappy solid iris eyes. It looks like the Tack/Zig-Zag fight doesn't belong after all... this version has him falling into the pit without anything tied up. Oh, and maybe totally cut out the sound at the very end... I just noticed the sound totally dies once the thief pulls it away. Sorry if I'm being a pest... although, to be honest, I'm surprised by how exact Calvert followed some storyboard-only shots.
Post
#194465
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194465/action/topic#194465
Time
Looks like the Recobbled Cut is bringing in some of the best ratings and viewership ever on GBS-TV. At the same time, Arabian Knight got the lowest rating ever. Worse than our print of Manos: The Hands of Fate.

I just want to thank Garrett and Chris for their help in this. I predicted at least 100 viewers... we got nearly 150 for the first Recobbled Cut showing. A little webcast stream getting that many viewers for an obscure film is important. I really think this shows the love that would justify Disney to properly finish the film.

You know, if we found a way to get letters to Richard Williams, it would be awesome if 150 letters were sent to him thanking him for the film.

CORRECTION:

On the Encore showing, we're getting 170 viewers.
Post
#194288
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194288/action/topic#194288
Time
Ok, MAYBE I'll get them ready in time. Pinocchio was returned to the library, so now I have the DVD in my hands. I have Animated Art pretty much laid out in Vegas (everything except the film clips), so it's just a matter of dropping in the bits from Moving Day, Fantasia, Snow White, Dumbo, and that one clip from Thief.

Perhaps I can put them before A Christmas Carol or something.

One question... I haven't gone through I Drew Roger Rabbit much yet, but do you think it would be worth pillarboxing in 16x9 in order to allow clips from WFRR and Thief to be full-rez (everything else centered)?

Post
#194247
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194247/action/topic#194247
Time
Just an update... I'm dropping I Drew Roger Rabbit and Animation Art from the marathon. This is mainly because I'm still working on Animation Art and I got a lot of other work (like a film theory exam).

However, everything else is staying put. I'm almost thinking that re-airing the Recobbled Cut in lieu of the two documentaries would be a better idea. Probably good for west coast people.