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OgOggilby

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22-Feb-2006
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5-Sep-2007
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Post
#188505
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/188505/action/topic#188505
Time
Good lord! I can't believe how much better it sounds.

You know, I forgot to ask, but could you possibly also post an mp3 of the March of the One-Eyes? I have an mp3 from my copy of the workprint, but it's very distorted.

I will say this, the GBS-TV airing will just have to wait for the new workprint stuff. Even though it's a mono feed, having that better quality soundtrack will make a huge difference. We may get a huge viewership for the Richard Williams evening I'm planning... hopefully it'll get a lot of people interested.
Post
#188335
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/188335/action/topic#188335
Time
Yeah, I noticed the contrast was a little odd (I wasn't sure if it was meant to be diffused or not).

By the way, for Animation Art, I have every single clip on DVD except for Pinocchio (I sold my DVD a while ago for a quick $40). However, the GSU library has it, so I'll just rip them from their DVD.

Chris's torrent was excellent, though. Arabian Knight has some interlacing issues (I think I can fix it in Vegas) and Animation Art looks pretty bad... but A Christmas Carol and the Thief documentary both look and sound terrific.

Unless someone can send me the animation segments of "Charge" I think I'll omit it from the credits reel since it's excerpted in the Thames doc. The two Pink Panther credit sequences I'm including mainly because I have the DVD's.
Post
#188307
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/188307/action/topic#188307
Time
First off, a fully remastered/5.1 sound version of Blooper Bunny appears on the first Looney Tunes 4-disc set. It even has a Greg Ford commentary.


I just finished getting the torrent of both Thiefs (Miramax and workprint), as well as extras (Christmas Carol, commercials, I Drew Roger Rabbit, Animation Art, the making-of).

The Miramax version has a wall-to-wall voice track. They just couldn't let one second pass without someone yakking. The new music is distractingly overloud and drowns out the voices sometimes. It was shocking to see the jump cuts in several places where some of the coolest sequences were originally. All I can say is that it's a shame The Princess and the Cobbler isn't available in widescreen.

The shots not drawn by Richard Williams stand out like a sore thumb. I can't stand Robert Folk's score, either. I was annoyed that the ending clearly intended to have another really long zoom out, ending with the THE END and they covered it up with a freeze-frame (geez, this is THEATRICAL not saturday morning crap) and jump cut to it.

About the "added" shot... you know, I just don't think Williams would have had Tack toss Zig-Zag. That's out of character for both.

However, I was playing around with Vegas (the video editing program I have) and trying out some audio filters to enhance audio. I decided to see if I could modulate some of the Kevin Dorsey overdubs to match the original One-Eye track. Well, I will say that if you absolutely need audio from the Calvert mix, at least lower the pitch to be more gutteral. I tried to an extent, but the problem is that Dorsey didn't read the lines with an English accent like the original voice actor. As a result, the lower-pitched voice fits better, but the lack of an accent hurts.

Oh, and I found something really interesting... I think that the original actor's voice was actually slowed down or made to be a lower pitch. When I adjust the pitch to be higher, it sounds very natural. This makes sense because the workprint voice has a really demonic feel to it that does seem manipulated.


Also, one possibility why the Calvert workprint has stuff that was still in storyboard form in the 2nd workprint... it's possible that Williams had all the paper animation finished but never photographed them for a workprint. One other possibility is that what if some stuff was fully inked and painted already, but not photographed?

One thing that really bothers me, though... in the Miramax LD transfer (via torrent), there's an alarmingly high amount of print dirt and scratches. The DVD isn't this scarred I hope?



By the way, I'm willing to reconstruct "Animation Art" to an extent by replacing all of the clips from DVD versions. This way, we can get high quality shots of Dumbo, Pinocchio, Snow White, Fantasia, etc. It'll contrast a lot with the noisy non-clip stuff, but it'll at least do justice to the original animation.



As for GBS-TV airing... now that you have some new footage to work with, there's no question that the airing should wait until you can drop that stuff in.

Whenever it's ready to go, this would basically be the line-up for "An Evening with Richard Williams, The Thief, and The Cobbler"

1. The Commercials Reel (and I'm going to add the title sequences to Casino Royale, The Return of the Pink Panther, and The Pink Panther Strikes Again)
2. A Christmas Carol
3. Animation Art (a reconstruction with clips restored)
4. I Drew Roger Rabbit
5. Who Framed Roger Rabbit trailer
6. The Thief Who Never Gave Up
7. Arabian Knight (in all its mediocre glory)
8. The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut

I don't know if I want to air the workprint, though. The marathon as it is now will be nearly 5 1/2 hours, so adding the workprint would raise it to 7. Showing Arabian Knight and the Recobbled Cut back to back would be more effective, IMO since the workprint and recobbled cut would be pretty similar.

I'm working a commercial bump that'll air on GBS-TV until we have the RW marathon. Once I finish editing it, I'll post it here.
Post
#187924
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/187924/action/topic#187924
Time
Sounds a lot like Richard Williams is the animation equal to Stanley Kubrick or Erich von Stroheim.

That's one thing I noticed on all the Thief screenshots, as well as Roger Rabbit entirely... the cel animation is so perfectly crafted. Even in the best Disney cartoons (even Snow White, Bambi, and Fantasia), there's a lot of mistakes (many corrected for DVD).

But on those two films, I can't see a speck of cel dust, any uneven cel painting, or reflections. Not even film grain. Although, I've read that when you deal with animation (drawn or models), you can fully expose a frame with absolutely perfect exposure and lighting. Thus, a very, very low amount of grain texture.

In sort of Machievellian terms, yeah, he'd go over budget and over schedule, but the end result justifies it.

I think Williams would have been able to avoid some of his later problems by just cranking out a handful of excellent, but quickly made films in the 1970's. Even if they were not as polished, as long as they made enough money... this is how Charlie Chaplin was able to gain independence. He could spend 3 1/2 years on a 80 minute film like City Lights, with almost 300 takes for one scene... having months out of production... rehearsing on film. But no one could say no because he was in full control.

He should have had a different contract, too. After the success of Roger Rabbit, he should have been more forceful on the terms - like being allowed more time and money. Honestly, with three Oscars in hand and right off a huge blockbuster movie, what's 7 more years in production instead of 4? Considering the money being poured into crappy movies in the 1990's, as well as good ones... surely "Thief" wasn't eating up too much money. The War Machine sequence cost a quarter of a million and it was the most complex part of the movie - I can't imagine the whole production costing more than $30 million. Any idea on the costs?

Who Framed Roger Rabbit cost $70 million, but "Thief" didn't require all those practical effects, compositing, live-action shooting, etc.
Post
#187601
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/187601/action/topic#187601
Time
You've got mail.

By the way, does the Princess version keep any of the sound from the Williams version or is it identical to Miramax's soundtrack?

By the way, it looks like the IMDB is starting to correct their listing for the film! So far, they've added the workprint runtime (91 minutes), the CinemaScope process, and added "Richard Williams Productions" to the production company list. No restructure of the cast list, title, etc. yet. I added all the animators you listed. I'm crossing my fingers that they'll change the title! It looks like I might be wrong on CinemaScope, though... while the film clearly has a wide-angle distortion, Williams shot Raggedy Ann & Andy in Panavision. Perhaps it was just another unique thing he did with "Thief" by using a wide angle lens instead of a normal one?

I did add into the trivia that Zig-Zag has 6 fingers and how that was a subtle reference to him being a sorceror.

Also, I'm suspecting that some music may have been composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams. His Symphony No. 7 sounds a LOT like some of the workprint music, but I haven't found anything identical yet.
Post
#187572
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/187572/action/topic#187572
Time
At this point, any idea of the percentages of footage you had to use from various sources?

Like, how much Williams finished from the 16x9 R3 Arabian Knight DVD, Calvert footage from the 16x9 DVD, the P&S "Princess", the workprint bootleg tape, etc?

I'd imagine you'd be able to get at least half of the film in high-quality DVD form. Although, since the Miramax version pretty much cut out the entire War Machine segment, you'd have to go with the P&S Princess tape and the workprint.
Post
#186581
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/186581/action/topic#186581
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
I actually have the original version of one of these lines, and CHOSE to use the Dorsey rendition. I wanted to use the Calvert sound mix for the entire scene.


Were you going to record the lines yourself? Heh, interesting. I'm a voice actor myself. I could probably do a passable One Eye if I was forced at gunpoint. Zigzag is more up my alley, but I could never do an exact Vincent Price.


Oh, I was mainly looking to see if I could digitally "enhance" the workprint track. Come to think of it, it doesn't seem like there would be much to work from anyways. Although, you could probably get the Dorsey voice to work better if you lowered the pitch considerably.
Post
#186271
Topic
Info Wanted & Help: looking for... The lost footage of 2001
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/186271/action/topic#186271
Time
It was mentioned on the HTF that all the cut material exists for 2001: A Space Odyssey on B&W color separations in 65mm (made from the original negative).


To be honest, I don't buy it that Kubrick would get rid of anything. Charlie Chaplin said the same thing and now we have hundreds and hundreds of outtakes from his films in vaults.
Post
#185787
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185787/action/topic#185787
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
If I can make requests for things to show on your station ...

How about ...

Rutland Weekend Television
The Innes Book of Records
Brass Eye
Jam
The Day Today
Spaced


I've mentioned Spaced and I think we're thinking about it. Personally, I'd love to see it since it'll probably never get a Region 1 release. I'm not familiar with the other shows, but if it's rare and interesting, it's worth looking into.

By the way, feel free to sign up for GBSTV on the site. You just have to follow some instructions and do a few things between the site and your Something Awful account.


If you do the documentary, you should open it with a transition from the awful workprint bootleg to your reconstruction - just to show how much better the quality is. I'll repeat, this restoration is going to be a good warmup if Disney does an official restoration. If it looks this good now, imagine what Disney could do with original negatives.
Post
#185778
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185778/action/topic#185778
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Something Awful. Neat, I'm a fan of that site, though I've never put down the $10 to brave the forums.

What's your channel? Air whatever you want, I guess ...


It's GBS-TV (www.gbs.tv). We're a relatively minor effort, but we keep a lot of material alive. We even showed a certain TV special that members of this forum should be familiar with.

I'm going to air the trailer tomorrow and I'll check to see what the viewer reactions are.


By the way... are you going to overlay credits over the opening as indicated in the script?

And one piece of advice... you should put some sort of intro before the film explaining the reconstruction in plain font and dead silence. They did this for the Metropolis reconstruction... and it was quite dramatic once the full orchestra music started.
Post
#185759
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185759/action/topic#185759
Time
I'd like to mention that there's a lot of support for a Thief restoration on the Something Awful Forums. Pretty much any decent animation fan has heard of it. I linked to your trailer to a few friends and they were totally blown away by it.

There's also another thing... I help with general operations for an online streaming TV channel and I was wondering if you'd like to have your reconstruction aired on it. We wouldn't cut a single thing and it would be shown in the proper widescreen format. Anything is clearable, so all we'd need is permission. It's a relatively low-resolution stream, but I think that it would get a lot of people to ask about your DVD's.

In the mean time, would it be alright with you if we aired your trailer? I'm trying to drum up as much interest in the film as possible. If you want more information on the channel and stuff, just say so.
Post
#185411
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185411/action/topic#185411
Time
Originally posted by: BuckSvenson
I believe Richard Williams created the opening credits to the 1967 version of Casino Royale.


He produced the opening credits, the animation effects throughout the film (namely superimposed animation in the bagpipes nightmare and Woody Allen's hiccup clouds in the last reel), and the closing credits.

[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/2133/cr12kc.jpg[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/8497/cr25sf.jpg[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/3870/cr34uh.jpg[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2683/cr43io.jpg[/URL]
[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/3681/cr51wc.jpg[/URL]

By the way, I made a GIF animation from the March of the One-Eyes sequence:

[URL=http://imageshack.us]http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/8172/oneeyes1gy.gif[/URL]

I couldn't loop it exactly because it seems that they're all unique drawings.


By the way, from the looks of it... it seems a lot like there's plenty of Williams footage and Calvert ink/paints of Williams pencil animation to use. About how many minutes of the bootleg tape exist in your reconstruction? I'd imagine if there's this much to work from, perhaps Disney's efforts to restore won't be as difficult.
Post
#185188
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/185188/action/topic#185188
Time
I just recieved a DVD-R of the 1980's workprint today and now I see that you're working on a much better edit. I can't wait to see this finished. After viewing the blurry workprint tape, I was blown away by how amazing the animation looks in your trailer.

Did you ever find out what the rest of the source music was (like March of the One Eyes)? I've been looking for the title of the music for months and not even music researchers I've talked to know what it is!

Also, was the scene with "Oh Phido, how could I forget? I fear you haven't eaten yet." and Zig-Zag walking down the staircase ever fully animated?