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OgOggilby

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22-Feb-2006
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5-Sep-2007
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Post
#203257
Topic
The Shadow (NTSC Widescreen Preservation) (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203257/action/topic#203257
Time
Originally posted by: mgaribaldi83
Originally posted by: OgOggilby
Originally posted by: Mentor
The Shadow is Open Matte, not P&S. Simply zooming the DVD will result in better quality than transfering a matted laserdisc.


No it's not. The regular shots are cropped a bit and the effect shots are heavily cropped:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/dvdcompare/shadow.htm


Ah... So not only is the pan and scan R1 not worth matting, the R2 has a coloring problem with it... Maybe it is worth it to continue with this project. Thanks for the info!


Actually, I'm pretty certain the R2 DVD has the right color. I saw The Shadow when it was originally released and I remember it having a subdued, but amber tone to the look. DVD Beaver can be a little too literal on color timing (they swing towards what looks "natural" even if that's now how it's supposed to look). The R1 pan & scan DVD is way too pale (a lot of Universal's early DVD's are like this).
Post
#203185
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203185/action/topic#203185
Time
Ok, I'll hand them out anyway.

The music after the VW is from Charlie Chaplin's score for City Lights. The last 1/3 is Scheherazade, but I'm not on that yet.
It's basically starting off as epic... showing the comedy, then back to epic again.

EDIT: wrong file... here's what I got so far: http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/thieftrailer50sec.avi

Post
#203143
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203143/action/topic#203143
Time
Another thing... I just realized it wouldn't be a good idea to hand out copies of your rough cut when you're getting the final recobbled cut ready.

I'm thinking that there could be a notification given to people when your final version hits Myspleen and they can download it. Either that or I can set up a page on my website that links to this thread. What do you think?
Post
#203133
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203133/action/topic#203133
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
The narration is great, but is such a soft sell. Trailers need to be HUGE. That's why I used the HUGE Scheherezade music.

You could start subtle and then go HUGE.


You know, you're right. I'm re-ripping the DVD-R since I have to do this in 720x480 anyways (I only have the GBS-TV 320x240 master on my HD).

I was finding it hard to really speed up things anyways. Although, I was going to cross-dissolve the last part of the finished "helicopter over the mountains" shot over the shot going into Zig-Zag's tower with the whole reality section... but it's just too slow. I'm just going to start with about 10 seconds of Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis and then let Scheherazade boom in.

Oh, I found a good piece of music that you might be able to use for both the polo game and the war machine (different parts of the track):

It's Vaughan Williams' "The Wasps' Overture" - http://www.ctufilms.com/waspsoverture.mp3
Post
#203119
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203119/action/topic#203119
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Guess you can't use my trailer since it has to be your own work for this project ... but feel free to crib from it.

All I did with mine was go through my hard drive copy of the Miramax cut, and grab any shot I felt was great in that trailer type way.

Eh ...


It's a shame to cut down:

"In the city there dwelt a lowly shoemaker, who was known as Tack the Cobbler. Also in the city, existed a Thief. Who shall be ... nameless."

Why not cut the bit about the balls instead?


Well, I thought about editing down your trailer, but I really want that narration to set the tone. If I had it my way, I'd just show yours complete, but my group wants something that has some stuff on the plot and is only 2 minutes long. I kind of feel low about what I'm doing since your trailer is awesome, but I guess it's worth this compromise to do a class presentation on this.


Oh, I looked back at the Calvert WIP and saw what you mentioned. Also, Tack looks like he needs more sleep in those poorly drawn storyboards.
Post
#203092
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203092/action/topic#203092
Time
Ok, I need advice. For our presentation, I need to make a 2 minute trailer that basically blows the class away.

I re-edited the opening narration to fit within a minute, which will have film clips set against it.

"It is written that the world which we see is an outward and visible dream of an inward and invisible reality"
"Once upon a time, there was a golden city. Atop the tallest minaret were three golden balls. The ancients had prophesised that if the three golden balls were ever taken away, harmony would yield to discourse and the city would fall to destruction and death. But the mystics had also foretold that the city might be saved by the simplest soul with the smallest and simplest of things."
"There dwelt a lowly shoemaker - Tack the Cobbler"
"Also in the city - a thief..."

Here's a rough cut of the soundtrack... I'm using the "One-Eye's Dance" music as filler since the 2nd half will be more dialogue clips, but with the music overlaid quietly:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/thieftrailertemp.wav

Just an idea of what's going on top of the sound... the first half with the narration is more of the mystical quality. Once "a thief" comes up, it's the slapstick stuff. The music cue after "destruction and death" will have 4-5 fade-in/fade-out bits of the one-eye's march. Any suggestions on what to put on top of the track (or if I should add stuff)?
Post
#203066
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203066/action/topic#203066
Time
Oh yeah, you're going to cut out the bit with the nurse angrily pushing Yum-Yum out of the room away from Tack, right?

I hate how that was added since she isn't indignant like that anywhere else in the film... and Tack just fixed her glasses. It doesn't help that the animation of Yum-Yum being pushed away is laughably awkward. It's wonderful how in the original, it's never made an issue of "class differences" between Yum-Yum and Tack. Enough of that stupid cliche!
Post
#202891
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202891/action/topic#202891
Time
Wow, nice details, then. I did find it annoying that you had to go to storyboards in a few places that should have been left alone. The shot of Yum-Yum arranging flowers into a heart is really important because it complements Tack's work with the shoe. Same thing for the shot of her breaking all her shoes right after Tack is making a cat's cradle image of her. (although, the rest of that Yum-Yum scene kind of doesn't fit in since it doesn't really have a payoff unless something is missing.. I kind of think it would have been better with just a fade-in on Yum-Yum breaking up the shoes and going to sleep). I just hate how a lot of the real subtle stuff just went over their heads. It seems like nearly everything in the film has a "balance" in terms of having a payoff.

By the way, I listened closely to the music you can finally hear under Zig-Zag's "milk and honeyed land" speech. It sounds like church organ music... I guess it's making fun of Zig-Zag's "sermon"

Oh, I stitched this together:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/goldencitypanorama-sm.jpg

Here's the very, very large version: http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/goldencitypanorama-lg.jpg


One question... I want to include a note with all the DVD-R's I'm giving away with who to contact at Disney. Do you have any sort of address or phone number I should include?
Post
#202887
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202887/action/topic#202887
Time
Ah, nothing like remembering your birthday when it's also Hitler's.


I'm burning DVD-R's like crazy (have to pick up a 40-50 pack tomorrow), so I'm 90% certain I can send out the DVD-R with the Animated Art/I Drew Roger Rabbit clips, my classical music collection, and some other stuff like the awnings scene from The Three Ages, a Harry Langdon short, etc. on Friday. I'm going to send you my own discs for my four Vincent Price AIP films (including The Raven), Who Framed Roger Rabbit (you have the 2nd disc of the Vista Series set, right?) and fill up the DVD-R with whatever I can.

Then, once you're done, you can just send the discs back when you send the final Recobbled cut.

You know, just from hearing how exact he would make his storyboards, it wouldn't surprise me if the workprint was really spot-on. I think the editing between Zig-Zag comforting King Nod, the Thief's pole vaulting attemps, and Tack breaking out of his cell (and watching the Thief fail) is brilliant.

On the Maiden...

It's just one more thing that shows how much of a creep Zig-Zag is. It's a pity it wasn't finished, but I love the animation during "A bountiful maiden from... Mom.... bass....ahh....." I only noticed it after showing my presentation group some clips, but the next shot after you see the Maiden's eyelash has King Nod batting his eyelashes with this hilarious expression.

By this time, do I even need to say what their reactions were?
Post
#202808
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202808/action/topic#202808
Time
Ok, looks like we're doing a proposal presentation that involves the audience taking action to get Disney to release The Thief and the Cobbler. The great thing is that I'll be giving out copies of the Recobbled Cut to everyone on Wednesday.

The problem is that I need a way to encode these onto DVD? What do you use? I have Sonic MyDVD and Pinnacle Studio 9, but they want $$$ before I can use the features. I'm just going to go ahead and download something, but I want some suggestions.

Now, the Recobbled Cut is going to just be a dupe of the rough cut you sent me. I need to send someone two other films (he helped me get the 3rd gen workprint right before you started on this), as well as get the disc ready for your stuff (the clips, the silent shorts, etc).
Post
#202634
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202634/action/topic#202634
Time
Yeah... it does seem like there's not enough footage where the editor marks are. Even with the crappy spoilers in the flyover, the use of the DVD version is really the only choice to make. It's just a pity they had to be added in the first place. Since the first re-cut had most of the march intact, it doesn't make sense to use the footage twice (although, they did the same thing with the zoom-in right after "TAKE ME TO YOUR MASTER!" with Mighty One-Eye). At least the flyover would exist in unbroken form in the form of its original negative since what appears in the film is duplicate negative thanks to the dissolves.

By the way, I went through the workprint to calculate how much usable finished footage is in the film. It's roughly 60 minutes of fully completed animation (I subtracted shots with full animation but are only tests like the bad line-up shot during the thief's flight or the 360 degree turnaround on the wire). However, if a restoration happened, there's really no reason to not use the finished shot of the thief coming into Yum-Yum's bathroom, the end title, the flyover (granted it's uncut on its negative) or some other shots (like Zig-Zag tripping over Tack and Tack's close-up early in the film) since they're in ones and feature no continuity/drafting flaws. Combined with the springs scene and the extra footage of the Thief trying to steal the jewel in the glass, I'd estimate that at least 70 minutes of finished material can be used. There's probably 10 minutes of stuff that never made it past the storyboards or pencil tests, then another 10 minutes of stuff animated from the storyboards or pencil animation that's unusuable due to continuity errors (Zig-Zag's eyes) or just being crappy animation (TAAAAAAACK!) No idea why Disney keeps hesitating since they basically just need Williams to do about 20-25 minutes of work.
Post
#202597
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202597/action/topic#202597
Time
Oh, I did some reading on how to interpret editor's marks...

The "V" editor marks are fade-to/from-black (V = fade to black, inverted V = fade from black), while the diagonal lines are for dissolves.

So, the wide shot of the castle gate after Tack is captured should have a fade from black instead of a hard cut. The shot of the gate after the fade-to-black on Zig-Zag's face (after "go with princess yum-yum") should also be a fade from black. There should be dissolves between the slow-motion wounded soldier, the blood spurts, and then King Nod. The shot of Tack forming Yum-Yum's face in the string should have a fade from black instead of a hard cut.

Just a few examples.

Also, I know it's a compromise due to what's available, but would it be possible to fill in the dissolves during the flyover with the pencils-only footage? The dissolves to the One-Eyes really harm the impact of the march and battle later. It's just as important as cutting to storyboards to hide Tack's voice in some parts.

I'll be sending you a ton of music, but here's a piece you might find suitable to use as a theme for the thief:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/04AllegroPesante.mp3 (from Vaughan Williams' 9th symphony)

You might want to do a remix to just get the really good parts.
Post
#202268
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202268/action/topic#202268
Time
I'm still amazed how he kept stuff nearly exactly the same over such a long time. You're right about The Thief looking like Williams... I think I saw one sketch among your scans that did have him drawn as a characture.

By the way, in order for my film professor to get an idea of what The Thief and the Cobbler is before reading my term paper, I let him borrow my 3rd gen workprint DVD-R, the recobbled rough cut, and Arabian Knight. I can't wait to get his reaction from the recobbled cut and then Arabian Knight. How much do you want to bet he'll turn off the last one within 10 minutes? I'm word-of-mouthing the hell out of this film...

My paper is going to be pretty awesome, I think. I'm drawing parallels to the main silent comedians, as well as relating to modes of production and other silent films. I even got permission to include images as reference figures, so I can put photos of Harry Langdon and Tack side-by-side. I gave a rough draft to him, so I'm waiting for input on what I should/shouldn't do for the final paper. I also want to include a short part comparing the mangling to The Magnificent Ambersons and Greed.

Best of all, I'll be citing your interviews with Alex Williams and Roy Naisbitt. I'll be sure to post a link to it here. It'll be a great reference on the silent influences... I really think it'll enhance the appreciation of the film. I know spotting all the silent comedy homages made it more fun for me.

One thing that bothers me is that the workprint apparently got a bad reaction from people... well, it's weird how it's so loved now. It seems to get a lukewarm reaction to a lot of animation people (not a lot of reaction to the threads on the animation message boards), yet the people that aren't really specifically animation fans love it. Maybe I'm overgeneralizing...
Post
#202225
Topic
The Shadow (NTSC Widescreen Preservation) (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202225/action/topic#202225
Time
Originally posted by: mgaribaldi83
Originally posted by: bigrob
why not get the R2 UK DVD? That's widescreen and anamorphic


Thank you for the suggestion, but I'm interested in an NTSC widescreen verison of the film, not a PAL version.

Cheers!

mgaribaldi83


You can use some programs to interpolate PAL into NTSC with progressive 24fps video. You'll get excellent quality without ghosting or interlacing (or speedup, even) while keeping it 24fps. Not to mention it would be 16x9 enhanced. You might even be able to add the NTSC version's DTS track and sync it up to the PAL conversion. A lot better than having to settle for laserdisc which will be much lower quality and non-anamorphic. Best of all, it would be 100% digital and you won't have to work with analog video.
Post
#202042
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/202042/action/topic#202042
Time
Here's the huge sized ones:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/lackeystakehimbig.jpg
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/lackeysmobassabig.jpg
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/lackeysballsbig.jpg
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/lackeyscityattackbig.jpg

Oddly enough, the last one seems to be one frame before the first cel you see in the shot.

By the way, I was going to go ahead and burn the DVD-R with the clips, then I realized I completely forgot one clip of Snow White.
Post
#201844
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201844/action/topic#201844
Time
Originally posted by: Studio Toledo
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Actually, that Tack & Yumyum shot isn't an error, that's something I created. It isn't very good. See, I didn't have that shot in widescreen, except that they reused the same animation in "Beem Bom." But it turned out the "Beem Bom" version was heavily cropped. So I used the sides of the "Beem Bom" version, but they only gave me parts of Tack/Yum Yum. Hmmm ...

Heh, I was looking more at the off-model nature of the characters in that shot personally (especially Tack's mouth gaping open, it just looks so noticable).


Yeah, I was referring to the hilarious way Tack's mouth is drawn. It looks like the tack is going through his tongue. A lot of your composites during the witch sequence are pretty seamless in normal viewing thanks to the problem shots being so brief.
Post
#201819
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201819/action/topic#201819
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Apologies for the horrible Photoshop job ... I'm on a computer without Photoshop or any good graphics programs ...

But thought I'd send out a holiday greeting.

http://orangecow.org/thief/easterrichardwilliams.jpg

Festive!


http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/thiefeggs.jpg

Oh, I was bored and decided to go frame by frame on some shots looking for hidden stuff. The sign the thief flies over (PRAYER EXIT) has graffiti all over it... including "Yankee Go Home", "Piss Off Brits", "Now is the time for good men...", "The end is nigh", etc.

There's some really funny drafting errors in the Calvert animation...

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/tackwtf.jpg
Ouch!

Throughout this shot, the brigands on the left are just one stationary cel:
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/brigandsnomove.jpg

Also, there's a framing mistake in one shot:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/thiefunfinished.jpg

They forgot to add in the support wires for a few frames here:
http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/nowires.jpg
Post
#201721
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201721/action/topic#201721
Time
Here's four stitches I did on Zig-Zag's Lackeys:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/lackeys1.jpg

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/lackeys2.jpg

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/lackeys3.jpg

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/lackeys4.jpg

I did them at ultra high-res, so these are just resizes.

By the way... does anyone else notice that everyone wears at hat except for the Mad Holy Old Witch and the brigands?

EDIT: I was wrong, the brigands DO wear helmets! I guess that means the witch is the only one... perhaps it's a wig?
Post
#201380
Topic
Help: looking for... King Kong (1933) Colorized
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201380/action/topic#201380
Time
Why would anyone want the colorized version?

The restored 4K-sourced version used for Warner's new DVD is just stunning. The old colorization was performed at NTSC resolution and has very poor image quality. Compared to the very high-quality colorizations by Legend Films (Carnival of Souls, Plan 9 From Outer Space, Night of the Living Dead, Reefer Madness, etc), it's even worse.
Post
#201270
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/201270/action/topic#201270
Time
You know, if it'll take the load off a little, I can still do the re-editing on Animating Art and I Drew Roger Rabbit. The funny thing is that I was set to go a few days ago, but with the potential better quality source material, I figured it was worth waiting for.

I have a book by Gianalberto Bendazzi called "Cartoons" and there's a short bit on Richard Williams. Oddly enough, it still mentions "Thief" is an adaptation of the Nasruddin stories, despite being a relatively new book.

I'm visiting my old home for the weekend, so I showed my mother the recobbled cut and she loved it! I'm just in awe of how everyone I've shown this to just falls in love with the film.