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OgOggilby

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22-Feb-2006
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5-Sep-2007
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Post
#205603
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205603/action/topic#205603
Time
Good idea to cut out MeeMee. Even in the first workprint, you can kind of tell it was a placeholder. I'm guessing the final version would have just had Yum-Yum being shocked about the smell (as seen in the Calvert WIP).

ANYTHING is better than another feminist rant, though.



BTW, would you be interested in your original programming (Gods of L.A., etc.) to show up on GBStv? We're getting requests for more original non-mainstream stuff, so I'd like to see how your films go. I'll be honest in saying that I totally forgot you sent them along with the "Thief" stuff! Once I'm done with finals, I'm going to sit through the films (along with a couple dozen others I've been waiting to watch due to being busy). I can't wait to see how your original work looks!

I actually re-edited (hastily... in time for a Film Production I entry) a short film from 2001 that I made with my cousins: http://www.ctufilms.com/tromboninator.avi
I shot and edited all of it. Remember that Folk track I asked for? I needed cheesy music for a scene... you'll notice it. It's not exactly good (I literally got the camera the day we shot it), but I think it's funny.
Post
#205364
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205364/action/topic#205364
Time
Originally posted by: SilverWook
Are the Japanese widescreen DVD and the U.S. letterboxed Laserdisc the same cut then?


Yes. However, the laserdisc has the "The Thief and the Cobbler" title and vastly better color/contrast. However, both are very dirty prints (The Miramax cut likely did the cuttiing on an interpositive and made a duplicate negative from that, which would explain the softness). Both are 2.35:1, but only the DVD is 16x9 enhanced (obviously).
Post
#205361
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205361/action/topic#205361
Time
Ok, my presentation was a success! Best of all, when I put up my site URL with links to the YouTube clips, a lot of people were jotting it down (even my professor).

The class was really impressed by the clips and laughed at all the right moments...

Besides the trailer, I showed:

Example of bootleg: The shot of the thief behind the signs from my 3rd gen tape DivX AVI from the torrent was used. Complete with the tape warp at the beginning. It lasted until the 3-D shift (with the overhead shot of the Buddah). Then I cut in the Miramax DVD version of that shot.

Example of pencils-only: The staircase pullback

Storyboard example: Oh ffffff-Phido!

Deleted material: The war machine destruction from Zig-Zag's horse going backwards to the rock falling on the huge billow.

Best of all, I didn't demonize Disney and only mentioned that it was made before Aladdin, but released afterward.
Post
#205194
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205194/action/topic#205194
Time
I can't wait to hear the final audio track. When that part of "Tallis" started when Yum-Yum needs her shoe fixed, that was so wonderful. I did notice some stuff out-of-sync probably due to the workprint AVI having that bad sync.

By the way, I was messing around with Vegas and actually tried to stereoize some of the music... here's part of the opening: www.ctufilms.com/stereoopening.mp3 I don't think it's very good, but maybe there's a better way.


My problem with the Metropolis DVD is that it really doesn't go as in-depth as it should have. The commentary is mostly film theory stuff (Freud, phallocentrism, Jung, etc - standard film theory stuff) and the documentary is mostly on German expressionism and the restoration. I want to make a complement to that, which means my short piece would be more on the actors, the making of the film, a critical look at the movie, etc. Also, you'd enjoy the background on the relationships between von Harbou, Lang, Rudolf Klein-Rogge (Rotwang), and the composer Gottfried Huppertz. The restored cut is supposedly the most accurate re-creation of the original, except that it has some stuff explained in the intertitles for missing scenes that were cut out before the premiere (they didn't need to be mentioned). I think that the omission of some footage has to do with it being outtakes not meant to be in the film. I remember reading about Napoleon and how three different sources could have different takes or different editing forms. I've listened to parts of the Moroder score and they don't really impress me... but I'm kind of biased since the 1927 orchestral score is so great. The Madacy edition actually slows down the film to about 12-16 frames per second, which cheats the running time. Not to mention it's an absolutely hideous print/transfer.

I hope I'm not derailing on this. Now, the "Thief" episode would probably end up being a much longer episode since I want to sort of put in my ideas for the "Cutting the Golden Balls" thing.
Post
#205146
Topic
Little Shop of Horrors original ending (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205146/action/topic#205146
Time
Most people have gotten tired of easter eggs unless they're trivial. For example, some throwaway interviewers are put on some DVD's like Citizen Kane and Singin' in the Rain. Some of the Walt Disney Treasures sets have Disneyland TV show intros and newsreels hidden away. Very easy to find, too.

However, putting a major feature behind a whole slew of trivia questions is just obnoxious. I can't believe you would be inspired by a Madacy DVD. They're the worst DVD company out there. It's like taking cooking pointers from Ed Gein.
Post
#205110
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205110/action/topic#205110
Time
Originally posted by: strangelove
"ish" is right-- all the torrents are dead. The powers must be trying to tell me to get outside.

Og, what other titles do you have in mind for your series? Just curious.


Off the top of my head, Help! (1965 Beatles film), Broken Blossoms (1919 D.W. Griffith/Lillian Gish), The Third Man (1949 Joseph Cotten/Orson Welles), The Bank Dick (1940 W.C. Fields film - source for my name), Duck Soup (1933 Marx Bros.), Metropolis (1927 Fritz Lang), The Gods Must Be Crazy, The Court Jester (1956, Danny Kaye), Treasure Island (1950 Disney), Sunrise (1927, F.W. Murnau), Being There (1979, Peter Sellers), Around the World in 80 Days (1956, David Niven/Cantinflas), Arsenic and Old Lace (1941 Cary Grant/Frank Capra)... maybe Napoleon (the epic 1927 Abel Gance film). Oh, and I almost forgot The Old Dark House (1932 James Whale/Karloff)

I actually starting shooting footage in October for The Bank Dick, but between my camera having terribly noisy audio and not having good editing resources, I scrapped it. Now that I've learned a lot about Sony Vegas and Audacity, I can do anything now. The biggest perk is that I can finally filter my audio to be crystal clear without the camera noise. Vegas will make editing simple, too.

The whole point is that I want to get people to see these films and discover them. I'm always on a crusade to get films released or released in their intended form. If a film can't be seen the way it was meant to be by the filmmakers, it might as well not be seen at all. As for "Thief," I'm still shocked that the cut versions gained a fan following. I think that's a sign of a truly great film if even that much of a mangling can still gain fans. The number of people I get interested or even get them to love the film is growing by the week.

By the way, I'm going to try to see if I can conduct an Atlanta screening of the final recobbled cut. I found that there's quite a lot of Something Awful "goons" in the area. If I can get permission to use one of the high-tech screening rooms at GSU, it would be neat.
Post
#205079
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205079/action/topic#205079
Time
My last finals are on Wednesday, too.

I have to do job searching this week, but if I have time, I'm starting a TV show called "The Flickering Window" which would be broadcast on GBS-TV, as well as archived on YouTube (they'd hit YT after the first showing on GBSTV). Each episode would be about 15-20 minutes covering a single movie sort of like a video version of a term paper. The films I'm choosing are mostly those without decent documentaries on DVD or I'd like to put out more information on. "Thief" would definately be in one episode. I'm basically going with rare films, underrated, and good/great films that don't have proper documentaries on DVD (like the Paramount Marx Bros. films). Thankfully, animation won't be too often since Disney has provided great stuff on their DVD's... but I know I'll be doing A Boy Named Charlie Brown (VERY underrated film) and maybe Raggedy Ann and Andy.

I might even make "Thief" the first episode so it can go with the final Recobbled Cut.
Post
#204840
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204840/action/topic#204840
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Hi there Rob!

Justin's a good man ... an old and dear friend. =) I think he's reading this thread occasionally too.


What we really need in the UK is someone with something like a Sony PD-150 camera, something that plays DVCAM.



Patrick - Actually, a lot of the pencil animation was pretty sketchy in the the Zigzag tower stuff ... Dick had only roughed it out, no ones yet. The Calvert stuff is so bad there because they were taking slightly rough material and interpreting it in a really vague way - didn't really know what they were doing.


Oh, ok. Still, I think they cheated on a handful of shots. In the flyover sequence, the first section with the mountains is all on twos. Once the lake appears, it switches to ones up until the close-up of Mighty One-Eye, which is on twos. The wide shot with all the One-Eye's after that is on twos. When it switches back to Mighty One-Eye (in the two finished shots you added back in), it's in ones again.
Post
#204832
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204832/action/topic#204832
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Nice trailer. Send me a DVD copy and I'll put it in the collection somewhere.

The "world which we see" cut to the Thief's eyes is genius. The "silent comedy" montage goes on a bit long for my taste, but that's your focus in this presentation, I get it ... few too many Calvert shots I think, and an abrupt end. Otherwise good stuff.

Great work!

On paper - It's spelled "Verschoor."

The Brigand crotch hit was never animated (I think this shot was done by the London team for Calvert) ... I'd forgotten about it til you mentioned it. The eye poke was most certainly animated, but cut out. Censorship, bah.

The Zigzag crotch hit is right there ... it's not actually clear what causes it, some kind of chain reaction from One Eye's fist hitting the women, and maybe them hitting Zigzag. This was a Calvert finish of a Williams scene.


Yeah, it was actually a mistake at first. I moved the shot to the wrong place and it went on the video track over the flyover. Then, I had the idea to turn down opacity and it looked cool. I tried to balance out the comedy, epic, and awe within 2 minutes. Personally, I'd rather just show a few minutes worth of clips in complete form (namely the "Dance of the One-Eyes", the Thief being tossed around by the Nurse, and the staircase chase). Or even better, your trailer. The Calvert stuff is regrettable... but I only used stuff that conformed to storyboards or went by quick enough to not stand out. I hate how all the Calvert work in the tower scene omits every other drawing from the pencil animation (it's all in ones in the workprint, right?). But the general story is there. As for sending you something... I'll probably make a different version that's more complete and balanced overall.

Oh, don't look at the IMDB's quotes section for "Arabian Knight" (they still won't change the name). Some idiot added a bunch of quotes... not just from the altered cut, but all from the Miramax-only voices for the Thief and Phido! Geez.
Post
#204827
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204827/action/topic#204827
Time
Ok, that's just awesome. Both the YTMND and that you don't have to live like the thief.

You know, I just thought of something. If I get the videos of Animating Art and I Drew Roger Rabbit from Tequila Mockingbird, I could do the video reconstructions straight from there. That way, it's one less thing you have to do and I can just send you a disc with my final edits when I'm through.

BTW, here's links to my paper and trailer for the "Thief" presentations...


I'm not 100% happy with either... but the paper does what I needed it to do for a grade and the trailer is what makes my group happy. The best thing is that the trailer is going to be projected onto a large screen with the sound booming through the sound system.

www.ctufilms.com/thiefpaper.doc
www.ctufilms.com/thieftrailersm.mov (the finished video is in full DVD quality)

My main regrets on the paper are not noticing a few other bawdy gags. You pointed out Zig-Zag getting kicked in the crotch by one of the "Femme One-Eyes" and I finally noticed it. Speaking of crotch hits, I wish Calvert didn't cut out the shots of the Nurse kicking a brigand in the crotch and then poking the eyes of another.
Post
#204686
Topic
Star Wars: Full Frame + Widescreen = ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204686/action/topic#204686
Time
Originally posted by: mcfly89
If the PAL laserdiscs are the highest quality copies of the pre-special edition Star Wars movies, and widescreen bars are matted (not anamorphic) so we lose a huge chunk of the picture, would it be possible to make a hybrid cut merging the full frame PAL Star Wars with the Widescreen? What would this look like?

I'm just wondering if anyone has tried this before. I'm also guessing the full frame versions are pan and scan, which would mean that the full frame would have to be matted overtop of the widescreen and aligned shot by shot. Sounds pretty painstaking, but possibly the closest we can get to a higher resolution picture without using the DVD releases.

What do you think?


Star Wars was shot in Panavision which means that the 2.35:1 image is the full area on the original film frame. No matting involved.
Post
#204665
Topic
Info: If... (1968)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204665/action/topic#204665
Time
Originally posted by: focuspuller
When I wrote scope I meant to write "metroscope" which should not be confused with the other. Metroscope was a cropped flat "widescreen" system which had a recommended aspect ratio of 1.75:1 but was protected for cropping down to 2:1. The name Metroscope I believe was created by MGM, and the format was popular for a time in Europe (this bieng a film from the UK, the studio in this case is Paramount).

As far as progress, I guess you could say I have about 30% left to finish. I'm having an issue with correctly syncing the audio would I could maybe use help with.


Oh, Metroscope was only used on a handful of MGM's films. None of them were shot for 2:1, but it was MGM's way of pulling off a cheap marketing pull. The Dirty Dozen is on DVD in Region 2 (Europe) at 2:1 and it's very poorly framed. All were shot for 1.75:1 or 1.85:1.

It's sort of how SuperScope was a poor man's CinemaScope which used nothing but films meant for regular 1.66:1 or 1.85:1 showing, but were enlarged and cropped to 2:1 anamorphic. Invasion of the Body Snatchers was shot for regular 1.75:1, but the 2:1 enlarging added a lot of grain and made compositions tight often.

I think only Universal was having films framed for 2:1 from the start in the 1950's through the early 1960's.
Post
#204501
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204501/action/topic#204501
Time
I'm still indifferent about the fight scene, but at least it's not that bad when edited down like in the rough cut. I can't help but laugh at "What, cobbler?" since it's such a horrible Price imitation. The gag with the Thief being lifted up isn't bad, either, since he really does come off as a hero. The only problem is that the guards don't seem to be responsive to his horrible stench...

One thought... I really love is the whole banana leaves flight sequence. The Thief finally finds something he enjoys besides stealing.

I really feel awful that I can't help much with your situation, Garrett. I have to pay rent in a few days and I'll be down to about $600 to my name. Disney ought to hire you as a consultant for the Thief restoration given how much research you've done.


By the way, I made some GIF animations:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8250/shallwetakehisheadaway0sw.gif
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5545/thiefdance9dm.gif

Post
#204255
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/204255/action/topic#204255
Time
I contacted UCLA's Film & TV Archive about their 35mm prints of Raggedy Ann and Andy to see if and how a video master could be obtained in 2.35:1 widescreen. We could at least find out who owns it so we can contact them.

BTW, I found the VHS to be roughly 1.66:1 when de-warped, but it's clearly cropped on the top and bottom, too... just like The Princess and the Cobbler.
Post
#203830
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203830/action/topic#203830
Time
Ok, I'm very low on the green being that it's the end of the semester. I just can't practically burn enough DVD-R's for my class by Wednesday. Instead, I'm going to set up a website people can watch the YouTube clips, as well as a link to GBS-TV. Perhaps I can arrange a showing of the complete rough cut version on Thursday. I really wish I could get copies in their hands, but I can't get my DVD burner to put out a viewable copy, let alone 30.


By the way, what's the story behind the Majestic Films booklet? It has all the original voice cast listed... didn't the CBC already redub everyone by the time they picked it up?
Post
#203756
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203756/action/topic#203756
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
There's a timestamp on the Calvert Work in Progress.


It reads: XFER (transfer) DATE: 10/16/92
AME INC.

CALVERT/COBBLER PROD. INC.
"THE THIEF & THE COBBLER"


Interesting since this version was clearly titled "Princess and the Cobbler." But there's your production title, and date where he was pretty much still starting.


Interesting.... http://www.geocities.com/eddie_bowers/edsummer.html says that Williams gave Calvert a workprint in September of 1992. The version shown in L.A. was apparently produced in June.
Post
#203512
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203512/action/topic#203512
Time
Really nice work! I hate to say it, but the new music was a little jarring - because I've gotten use to the Folk score (at least I haven't gotten used to the actual mangled version in whole). It's a lot better than using The Pink Panther with notes re-arranged. Can't wait to see the rest.

One idea... maybe the opening credits would have only had main animation/production credits? On Raggedy Ann, it was like this, but I don't know if this was an idea Williams had. It does seem kind of weird to have voice actor credits in the opening since they were usually put after the film. It probably doesn't matter much since you have to re-use the "Princess" end credits anyways.
Post
#203397
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203397/action/topic#203397
Time
WOW. Everything is pretty much seamless (probably would be perfect if it wasn't for the worn Miramax print). I'm really amazed by how the workprint matches so well.

Have you considered doing a still-frame background for the pan from Tack to the Thief like you did for parts of the witch shots? It seems like there's enough to work from, but I wonder if the wide-angle distortion would make it worse.
Post
#203287
Topic
FAN EDIT REQUEST THREAD - Post your dream Fan Edits Here!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/203287/action/topic#203287
Time
I've toyed with the idea of a better version of Metropolis (the 1927 silent film).

- Take the superior PAL 25fps DVD that's progressive
- Re-interpolate it to 24fps, with select shots at 22-23 fps (speed issues)
- Delete some of the unecessary "subplot" intertitles that were added. While many allow continuity resolve, some are just too literal and wouldn't matter in this cut.
- Re-sync the orchestral score to fit this version
- The final product would go on a double-layer DVD-R