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OgOggilby

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22-Feb-2006
Last activity
5-Sep-2007
Posts
295

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Post
#208287
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/208287/action/topic#208287
Time
Well, I'm working out details for another GBStv broadcast. I really would like to find a way to simulcast it so that Mac users can watch. If anyone can offer advice, please do so!

Also, while I'm still waiting for logistics on how to do it, both Garrett and I are going to record a commentary for the film. I'm mainly going to contribute film history stuff (like how the film relates to silent comedy, stuff on the animators, references). He'll likely contribute stuff on the restoration, the film itself, etc. thanks to all the interviews and research on the fiilm.
Post
#207401
Topic
Info: The LID Project: Laserdisc is dead.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207401/action/topic#207401
Time
I could be wrong, but based on what I've read about the 1997 restorations by Lucasfilm...

The new DVD's will likely be sourced from either the 1985 interpositives (last used for video transferring on the 1993 laserdiscs). The official audio track for the 35mm theatrical releases were Dolby Stereo, with only the special 70mm prints getting 6-track magnetic.

The restorations in 1997 likely consisted of the following (for Star Wars mainly):

- Original camera negative to Star Wars is heavily worn and damaged (several sections are torn or unprintable)
- This is restored as best as can be
- Some sections taken from the 1985 interpositive to replace the damaged areas.
- A new interpositive is created of the restored o-neg, with the replacement interpositives (which were scanned digitally for repair) and new digital shots spliced in.
- From the new interpositive, new duplicate negatives are created for theatrical prints.

Thus, I'm fairly certain the DVD's will use the 1985 interpositives, but they'll still look quite good. The only problem is that the LD transfers a lot of people have been using for fan edits may seem "better" only because they aren't as detailed and current.
Post
#207376
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/207376/action/topic#207376
Time
When one deals with reconstruction and restoration, even on an amateur level (as great as the Recobbled Cut is coming out, it's by no means a substitute for a true restoration done entirely on 35mm from original negatives, Richard Williams' supervision, etc).

But you have to think of the ethics of it. In this case, the materials to work from are an incomplete workprint, a pan & scan DVD of the first release version, a widescreen DVD of the further cut U.S. release, the recut workprint, and a few odds and ends.

On one level, I think that it should be as close to the workprint as possible - nothing less and nothing more, warts and all...

There's a bigger problem, though... the point is to get people interested in the film so there's an incentive for Disney to put the money into a true restoration. One problem I've seen with some "scholarly" restorations is that they didn't really take any precaution to make sure the film is easier to watch. That's why we're getting Calvert animation in place of storyboards - as mediocre the animation is, it still grabs attention better than the storyboards (which are superb, anyways). There's also the factor of having to use audio from the recuts because of higher fidelity (or in same cases, due to the workprints having unusable audio).

We can't assume the workprint is the exact flow that Richard Williams intended - mainly due to missing footage that doesn't turn up until the Calvert workprint, unfinished audio, and the screenplay being so loosely followed. For example, we know that the shot of the Thief trying to steal an emerald was much longer since footage appears ONLY in the first recut's credits - same thing for the attempt to use springs to get the golden statue. We can maybe assume Williams meant to cut it, but the workprint still has a shot of the Thief walking away injured with a spring on his foot. Then, we know that Williams intended to trim parts of the Thief pole vaulting and the war machine stuff. But what would he have cut out?
Post
#206935
Topic
Idea: Revisionist Silent Films...?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206935/action/topic#206935
Time
There's a million different scores for Nosferatu ranging from mind-numbingly inappropriate to perfection. The best score I've heard is one attatched to the archive.org print. No credit but it's great. There's also a pipe organ one that's good.

It's always important to research... a ton of silent films have surviving "cue sheets" which note what kind of music should be played when. Most silent films never had official scores, but a handful did - Metropolis' orchestral score is so perfectly timed, nothing can beat it. D.W. Griffith intended The Birth of a Nation to have a certain type of score (it had one composed by Joseph Carl Breill).

Some films depend on appropriate music... Intolerance has a synthesizer score - but it's EPIC. It absolutely needs an orchestral score (one exists for the Thames laserdisc/tape). On the other hand, The Unknown (Lon Chaney) has sort of an avant-garde synth track that's absolutely perfect for the film because of the weird nature of the film.

You just have to tread lightly. I'm going to be preparing some edited music tracks for some GBStv silents coming up (The General), but I'm going to research to make sure it fits appropriately.
Post
#206912
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206912/action/topic#206912
Time
Ok:

Russian Easter Overture (around 9:00 to the end - awesome): www.ctufilms.com/rimskykorsakovrussianeasteroverture.mp3



Though I don't know what functions this might have, codecs like DivX offers choices such as doing one-pass or "multipass", as well as whether to go slow, stardard or fast. I too often pick or choose between options when I do my captures as well as change the bitrate depending on how much I want for my videos.


Leeloo Dallas Mooooltipass?

Post
#206883
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206883/action/topic#206883
Time
I'm finally done with the semester, so I'll finally send you the goodies I promised (on Monday).

Tonight, I'm doing a marathon of transferring (I want to send you a DVD rip of When Comedy Was King). You'll get that, the Harry Langdon shorts, all my classical music, the clips for I Drew Roger Rabbit and Animating art, etc.

Also, can you email me your address? I can't seem to find it at hand. You'll probably get WFRR first.


BTW, want an interesting parallel? As you saw my thread on "Napoleon" on SAF... Kevin Brownlow was the editor for Charge of the Light Brigade. Brownlow spent 3 decades of his life restoring Napoleon (1950's through 1980's)
Post
#206832
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206832/action/topic#206832
Time
Ok, I know I'm a pest, but is there any way you can remove the insipid "JUST LIKE YOUR MOTHER" line? It's a terrible cliche... there has to be some way to work around that line.

For that scene, you really did a great job of re-editing it since it was so warped in the Calvert cut, so that's the only nitpicky thing I found.

Also, have you considered using Rimsky-Korsakov's Russian Easter Overture during the war machine sequence with the thief? I synched the last 6 minutes or so with it and it fit perfectly. If you need the mp3, I'll upload it.
Post
#206630
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206630/action/topic#206630
Time
Hmmm.. I can't find it.

Although, I finally noticed a few things...

When the Thief starts gliding, you can see him look back at the wings with a wonderful look of joy. I also saw how the hands seemed to open and close on the background.

I did notice the rough cut lacked the cross-cutting between the witch falling and the thief falling... is this going back?


If anything needs to be taken out, the bit with Zig-Zag with the alligators feels like it should have been placed somewhere else because it doesn't make sense why the film would cut just for that small bit. It feels a lot like it should have gone where the dissolve from sunset to sunrise was.
Post
#206611
Topic
Idea & Request: 2001 & 2010 - special features project?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206611/action/topic#206611
Time
Originally posted by: rmuneton
Originally posted by: ShiftyEyes
I think there's another thread about 2001. Anyway, Warners will be releasing a Special Edition later this year. No plans for 2010 though.
Don't believe it for a second, they have been saying it for years and look what happened to Bladerunner. Beside the number who has viewed this thread shows me how many people are interested.


2001 was a recent revelation... I think the only rumors came out only a month or two until it was mentioned in a Home Theater Forum chat by WB reps. It's on the schedule anyways for September since it'll be a simultaneous HD-DVD and standard DVD release. They're also doing new editions of The Shining, Eyes Wide Shut, and A Clockwork Orange. All new 16x9 remasters (ACO is 1.66:1 16x9) and EWS will be the uncut European version. Malcolm McDowell recorded a commentary for Clockwork.

Blade Runner is a totally different issue because WB doesn't have 100% control over it like 2001: A Space Odyssey.
Post
#206146
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206146/action/topic#206146
Time
Why is it that so many people can't recognize the character development???

I don't know why people knock Williams so much because documentation shows that he was only given a year and a half to finish the film (if it's true that the negative pickup began in 1991). With the limited funding, he couldn't do much (hence why only about 10 minutes of the film were finished in 1982). I can honestly believe only 4 months were needed because it looks like most of the storyboard-only stuff is purely character animation. Save for a few shots never inked and painted, all the hard stuff was already in the can.
Post
#206062
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/206062/action/topic#206062
Time
I could almost smell the bullshit spouted by Jake Eberts.

How dare he justify taking it away on he grounds that Williams doesn't deserve to be considered an auteur! Any filmmaker who follows their creative vision is an auteur.

As for Calvert, it's possible the WIP has all the thief mumbles due to them being added by the CBC, not him. Also, I'm guessing Ed Carroll did the original vocal effects for the thief since you can hear them in the workprint. I really think that with warts and all, Calvert really did a decent job since the released version is somewhat like the workprint (at least most stuff in the Princess cut can be re-edited back to its workprint editorial form). He could have done better, but I'm guessing the CBC breathing down his neck didn't help. Some changes made no sense at all like cutting out the dolly shot before the thief/Tack chase, just a few frames for that whip pan down while Zig-Zag is taking down a flag, and Mighty One-Eye's demise. It's sad how the workprint was partially responsible for it being taken out of his hands...

The banana leaves flying sequence is VERY important because it adds character development to the thief - he's non-stop thieving in the film until he starts flying.


But Ebert's inane comments just show that all he cares about is being cheap and film isn't art. Malcolm X is an excellent movie and Spike Lee had to get direct support from other people (Bill Cosby and Oprah Winfrey) to finish it. And it wasn't even an expensive movie!

I just hate how the cost was made such a big deal when Williams was producing more complex animation than Disney, who spent twice as much on Aladdin!



By the way, in a more ironic sense, I never would have thought the original Star Wars trilogy would be released on DVD. I would have bet money that an official "Thief" restoration would hit DVD before that. Oh well.
Post
#205811
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205811/action/topic#205811
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Done.




Black in every shot I think.


Whoa, I was only showing it as an example (I didn't think color correcting would be practical, not to mention worthwhile). You keep doing all these awesome corrections.

By the way... I noticed some more oddities from the re-cuts. The shots of Zig-Zag charging after Tack, then grabbing Yum-Yum are in ones. Does this mean it was a Williams origin shot or did an animator get away with drawing it better? Also, I noticed that really awful added shot of the Thief at the banana leaves. Ugh. The pullback at the end seems to be in ones (which makes sense since we see the snow/confetti camera test in that test reel), but the close-up for "I love you" is in twos. You probably noticed this, but did you spot the gags in the background while Zig-Zag is showing Mighty One-Eye the map? I spotted one of the One-Eyes holding two female One-Eyes under his arms and they're squirming.

Also, is the Calvert WIP basically everything from Williams (and the other London animators post-takeover - for shots like for "The end") regardless of completeness? Obviously, with the crude storyboards added in for Calvert's version. It also seems like he wanted less to be cut out - as seen by the longer bathtub scene, the Maiden scene, more war machine, and fewer overdubs. One change that never made sense to me is the overdub for Mighty One-Eye. Unless I'm missing something, none of his dialogue was changed or added to, so what gives? Paul Matthews' voice is just demonic... like the rest of the redubbers, Kevin Dorseys' voice is just lame.

ADD:

Wow, I was actually going to suggest that for the shot, but again didn't think it would be worth the trouble. I actually overlaid the Princess DVD that way for a forum signature (so Zig-Zag looked bluer). I'm convinced that the telecine operator for the Japanese DVD transfer decided to take a nap instead of carefully adjusting the image.
Post
#205801
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205801/action/topic#205801
Time
Wow! It's so much more seamless... and I see that the last "fumes" shot utilizes the Calvert WIP version.

BTW, I used Photoshop to do a color replace:

http://ctufilms.googlepages.com/enuchs.jpg

I had to cut a matte around them, though, since it would slightly darken Tack due to his grey shades. (BTW, what's with his hands being so huge in that shot?)

What's funny is that you can tell it was inked and painted in Korea... because they did the same thing to black characters when the Looney Tunes were colorized in the 1960's. One cartoon has a gag with a ghost in blackface and he's in purpleface instead.

Ah, political correctness...
Post
#205796
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205796/action/topic#205796
Time
Yeah, you're right. Although, I feel that I could learn a lot of the mechanics in a professional way. By professional, I mean what gets you paid.

I did check out a great book on screenplay writing... while I disagree with some points in it, it gave me a lot of ideas and advice that's helping me form something coherent. I want to please myself creatively, but I also want others to enjoy it as much as I do.
Post
#205790
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205790/action/topic#205790
Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
Wouldn't work in the least. Noise reduction is a crapshoot as is.

Even if we lived in an alternate universe where that did work, that would take away all the quality that's the reason I'm using the Princess sound in the first place.


A lot of the material I'm using has minimal score actually ... but the FX-heavy soundtrack gives it away every time. =(


Yeah, that's what I thought. It seemed like a good idea at the time!


By the way, looks like my applications for Feature Screenwriting and Film Production at Georgia State U. have been turned down. I'm still on the waiting list, but I didn't make the top. I can at least fulfill credits by taking more film history courses (at least involving some of my favorites - Hitchcock and neo-realism), but I'm aching to get into actual creative work.

Maybe I should just go into film historian fields...
Post
#205716
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/205716/action/topic#205716
Time
This may be a long shot, but if you have a bit of dialogue with only the score underneath is... I wonder if it would be possible to filter it out by using the score CD as the "noise profile" and making sure it's synched with the Princess audio mix. Instead of filtering out noise, you're filtering out the music.

Basically, you'd edit the music back to match what's in the clip of dialogue you want to use and set is as the noise profile. Maybe when you apply noise reduction using that as the noise profile, it'll filter out the music.