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OgOggilby

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22-Feb-2006
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5-Sep-2007
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Post
#264579
Topic
Info: Kubrick's 'The Shining'... US & International versions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/264579/action/topic#264579
Time
There's a lot of errors on Vitali's part. For example, he ends up describing the aspect ratio situation wrong... he's confusing the video transfers with Kubrick preferring not to shoot in anamorphic formats like Panavision. Kubrick's widow mentioned in an interview that Kubrick actually wanted to participate in supplemental material after he retired (after Eyes Wide Shut), but it never happened obviously. I'm fairly sure that she hinted at Kubrick being interested in recording commentaries.

As for the Dr. Strangelove alternate ending, I'm fairly sure it's just lost. Columbia also lost the original negative. It only survives because Kubrick kept a pristine fine-grain positive in his personal collection (well, other than some grainy and dupey 4th generation prints in Columbia's collection). Columbia used to take horrible care of their films. The negative for Lawrence of Arabia was being stored in a 80 degree abandoned bowling alley at the time it was to be restored (back in 1988). From what I've heard, until their restoration program was started in the late 1980s, it's a miracle that so much of their library still survives.

Kubrick was quite the packrat, so the deleted Shining stuff is probably all there somewhere (either in his archive or at Warner Brothers). I mean, Charlie Chaplin insisted that hundreds of cans of outtakes from his films to be destroyed, yet they still exist.
Post
#264527
Topic
Info: Kubrick's 'The Shining'... US & International versions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/264527/action/topic#264527
Time
Originally posted by: Bahax
Originally posted by: Murch
...has anybody here ever seen the epilogue with Wendy and Danny in the hospital? Was it ever shown on tv?


Only a lucky few ever saw the epilogue. I believe that only days after The Shining's release in theaters in the US, Kubrick decided that scene had to go, and actually employed editors to go around to movie theaters and snip it out. And I don't think the movie was in wide release for the first week or so.
The footage was probably destroyed. Oh well. He's the artist.


It's bunk that Kubrick destroyed footage. For example, his estate has all the 2001: A Space Odyssey deleted footage (the negatives are indeed gone, but they survive as 65mm color separations).

Post
#264404
Topic
ZigFried's the Thief and the Cobbler Archival DVDs/Combo Pack (CANCELLED)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/264404/action/topic#264404
Time
What are your sources? ocpmovie's DVD-Rs came from a R2 Japanese 16x9 DVD (Miramax cut) and a letterboxed screener VHS (Princess cut). I know he's the only one in the world that has that screener tape and the Japanese disc is out of print. The pan & scan Miramax cut is off limits (and worthless) since it's widely available in R1.

Why on earth would you want to create a pan & scan Recobbled Cut? ocpmovie spent quite a lot of time searching out sources to give us a 100% widescreen version. If anyone absolutely can't stand seeing the film in widescreen, they can just watch the crappy pan & scan Miramax DVD. I know of the controversies surrounding ocpmovie and bootlegging here, but you have no right to butcher such a great fan edit. The film has suffered enough with pan & scan DVDs being out there and it would help if the fullscreen versions were wiped off the radar completely.
Post
#263977
Topic
Info: Kubrick's 'The Shining'... US & International versions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263977/action/topic#263977
Time
Kubrick shot his last three films open matte, but always intended them to be shown 1.85:1 theatrically. In 1991, when he approved new digital transfers of all his films for laserdisc, he opted to have his films unmatted whenever possible. Given the low resolution of laserdisc and the unavailability of 16x9 enhancement, he didn't like how the matting wasted so much of the picture when there's perfectly safe image underneath. However, there's no reason to keep them unmatted now that we have high resolution 16x9 DVDs and also high-def formats. His storyboards for The Shining had marks showing that the images were to be composed for 1.85:1 first, but also made safe for 1.33:1 in the event of mattes not being added.

Just a rundown of official aspect ratios for his films:

Killer's Kiss - 1.37:1
The Killing - 1.75:1
Paths of Glory - 1.85:1
Spartacus - 2.20:1 (or 2.35:1 on 35mm prints)
Lolita - 1.66:1
Dr. Strangelove - 1.66:1
2001: A Space Odyssey - 2.20:1
A Clockwork Orange - 1.66:1
Barry Lyndon - 1.66:1
The Shining - 1.85:1
Full Metal Jacket - 1.85:1
Eyes Wide Shut - 1.85:1
Post
#263123
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263123/action/topic#263123
Time
Originally posted by: klokwerk
Ogg, I know this is off-topic but do you have any of the other AL-TVs? I'm trying to track down good copies of the older ones. I'd ask via PM but I'm in the middle of emptying my overflooded inbox.


I found my VHS tapes for the 1999 and 2003 specials and will eventually put those up (both are very nice SP quality). Maybe someone out there has good copies of the others.
Post
#263014
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263014/action/topic#263014
Time
Originally posted by: ReverendBeastly
Did you upload Keepers of the Frame? I'd really like to get a copy of that on DVD if possible.


Yeah! It's from a off-cable VHS tape though, so you're best off just downloading the MP4 (iPod/PSP) file. FYI, here's all the other stuff I've uploaded to Google Video:

I have all six episodes of the Kevin Brownlow/David Gill miniseries on European silent cinema:
Cinema Europe: Where It All Began (intro episode)
Cinema Europe: Art's Promised Land (Scandanavia)
Cinema Europe: The Unchained Camera (Germany)
Cinema Europe: The Music of the Light (France)
Cinema Europe: Opportunity Lost (England)
Cinema Europe: End of an Era (transition to sound/finale)

I'll be uploading the 1980 13-part miniseries on American silents, "Hollywood," in a few weeks once I get access to my library's tapes. Both have been out of print for some time (at least CE was on DVD). I'm in the process of transferring Abel Gance's 1927 silent epic "Napoleon" and a rare 1943 Fox film "Holy Matrimony." I also have...

Raggedy Ann and Andy: A Musical Adventure (directed by Richard Williams)
The Men Who Made the Movies: Alfred Hitchcock (interview intercut with film clips)
AL-TV 2006 (newest "Weird Al" Yankovic TV special)
Three Strikes and You're Out (silly anti-theft training film for clerks)
"Weird Al" Yankovic - White and Nerdy (Live on The Tonight Show)

Don't forget to check my page of "Thief" video links to Google Video
Post
#263009
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263009/action/topic#263009
Time
ocpmovie's fantastic trailer for the recobbled cut is up: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3118613920320254066&hl=en

PLEASE link this or download the mp4 (iPod/PSP option) to show all your friends... I made sure the A/V quality was top notch for showing off it.

Not really related to "Thief," but very important for viewing is Keepers of the Frame. It's a 70 min. documentary on film restoration and preservation. The documentary is artistically done, but also quite grim... it shows how important it is that we save films for future generations since most in the past didn't have the foresight we do now. We could see the uncut version of Greed if MGM somehow knew people would gladly buy a DVD of it 75 years later.
Post
#262713
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262713/action/topic#262713
Time
Anyone have an invitation code?

FYI, you wouldn't believe how popular my upload of A Christmas Carol is on Google Video!

I originally uploaded it on Nov. 16 and its already recieved 6337 page views and has been downloaded 4436 times!

In comparision, the Recobbled Cut has had 1331 page views and 149 downloads. Looks like a lot of people have a fondness for Richard Williams' take on the story.
Post
#261860
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261860/action/topic#261860
Time
Originally posted by: Esn
That Ken Harris interview is really interesting. Thanks for posting it.

Since this thread is in a bit of a rut currently, I'll post some great examples of animation that I've found recently.

http://www.pascalblais.com/it_petrov_09.html
http://www.pascalblais.com/it_petrov_08.html
^Aleksandr Petrov, a commercial and a recent short film that'll hopefully win the Oscar

Prince Vladimir (click on the 25,66 Mb link)
Street Musique (the first little bit is live action)


The other night, GBStv aired The Curious Adventures of Mr. Wonderbird. It's a 1952 French animated film that's splendid. The animation is stunning... extremely fluid. A lot of the fluid "pose to pose" movement is reflected in the early Nasrudin clip that ocp posted a while back. While American animation often tended to be more graceful, the European works I've seen (also, Zagreb) have nearly non-stop movement. Sort of really fluid counterparts to the bouncy Max Fleischer classics. Richard Williams seemed to have a more European style to his early work.
Post
#261856
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261856/action/topic#261856
Time
Originally posted by: DaveHolmes
Originally posted by: Arnaud
Two interesting links related to the the Thief :
http://its-a-wrap.blogspot.com/2006/12/ken-harris.html


Notice that Ken is working on animating wolves in the photographs - it looks the the bed scene with YumYum and the Thief.


ocpmovie writes:

" No, it's not the bed scene with Yumyum and the
Thief. There is a lengthy sequence with wolves, sort
of a dream sequence, in the Nasruddin script, so it
could be that. However, in the first picture you can
see a title design on the wall reading "Wolves," which
would, strangely, seem to suggest that Ken is actually
animating some short film about wolves which we've
never seen. My best guess though is that it's wolf
material from Nasruddin."
Post
#260765
Topic
Info Wanted: versions of Metropolis?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260765/action/topic#260765
Time
Originally posted by: caligulathegod
Everything I've ever read about silent films indicates that they were never projected at the same rate as they were filmed and that it's a modern convention that they be projected at a natural rate. There was never a standard speed, that much we do know. How it was presented was pretty much up to the projectionist. It seems that they were more interested in the picture ending on time than any sort of natural look. Also, the cue sheets tend to recommend the faster rates. None of them recommend the slowest 16 speed, since the film was too flamable for that. Audiences at the time were accustomed to the slightly stylized look of the projection, which looks silly to us, just as the acting does.

Oh well, this is an ongoing debate among the professionals and aficionados. We won't solve it here.


Well, just look over this article by Kevin Brownlow: http://www.cinemaweb.com/silentfilm/bookshelf/18_kb_2.htm

The basic word of wisdom is to not project too slow or too fast. 16fps is too slow for most, but it does mention that slower speeds are necessary in many cases. At the same time, some films need faster than 24fps. It really does have to be looked at closely since wrong speeds will ruin a great performance.... stylized silent acting may be, it's rarely intended for anyone other than Keaton or Chaplin to appear to sprint every time they take a short walk.
Post
#260727
Topic
FAN EDIT REQUEST THREAD - Post your dream Fan Edits Here!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260727/action/topic#260727
Time
Originally posted by: cashflagg
A simple one, really: ANIMAL HOUSE - anamorphic picture but with the original audio track from the non-anamorphic version. The re-release doesn't use the proper 60's tunes, instead substituting cheesy generic 80's ones. I can't bring myself to watch the DVD.


Both the 5.1 and mono tracks have the original oldies tunes on the "Double Secret Probation Edition" released a few years ago. As far as I know, there wasn't even a non-anamorphic DVD. The first edition was pan & scan, mono, and bare-bones. Then, there was a collector's edition in 16x9, but unconverted from the widescreen laserdisc transfer (also still mono). The "Double Secret Probation Edition" is a brand new 16x9 transfer with 5.1 and mono tracks. As far as I know, none of these discs had altered sound mixes.
Post
#260721
Topic
Info Wanted: versions of Metropolis?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260721/action/topic#260721
Time
Originally posted by: caligulathegod
Right. It isn't supposed to be natural. That's not how they watched films in that era.


That's really inaccurate. It depended on the film and projectionists were expected to "eye" the speed. Comedies tended to be shot with the intention of being projected a little fast... I know The General is about 26 fps on Kino's DVD and looks quite right. The idea that films were always meant to be projected at a fast speed is as much of a myth as silents always being accompanied with out-of-tune piano music.

On the other hand, you'd never want anything faster than 18fps for Intolerance or Broken Blossoms. You can expect films from the teens to require around 18fps, maybe 16 for the much older stuff (I think Georges Melies films are preferable at 16fps). Fast speeds are rarely appropriate for anything other than comedies. Even those were meant to be projected slower than 24fps in a lot of instances (I know Chaplin had some of his silents re-released in "stretch printing" form which visually gave the appearance of being slowed down to 20 fps within a 24fps projection by repeating every other third frame or something). You can expect most 1920s dramas to be around 20fps, too.

Post
#260189
Topic
Info Wanted: versions of Metropolis?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260189/action/topic#260189
Time
Originally posted by: caligulathegod
Originally posted by: OgOggilby
Originally posted by: tweaker
Just a random note: While there are folks that argue the film should be viewed at about 18 fps (roughly the speed at which it was filmed), there is written evidence that it was always meant to be shown at around 24 fps (what was sometimes referred to as "sound speed").


Well, despite any written stuff, it's always a matter of looking at the film for what seems like natural speed. The rule of thumb for a late 1920s silent is usually 20-22fps. I'm fairly sure that 20fps works the best on the restored version.


I respectfully disagree. Considering that this whole forum is based upon the premise that a certain 30 year old movie should be preserved and viewed as it was in 1977 and not with modern tweaks, I'd think some consideration should be given to how silent films were presented back in silent days. It was actually the custom to watch films slightly sped up as they were more stylized and fantasized that way, which may seem odd to modern eyes. There's no evidence that ANY silent film was ever presented at a "natural" speed and there are 1000s of preserved music cue sheets that suggest projection speeds faster than filming speeds.


It wildly varied. For most films, the projectionists would eye the speed of the film and adjust the projector accordingly. Of course, this was at better theaters... many took advantage of the silent film by speeding it up to fit in more shows. Comedies tended to be projected faster than others and this is often replicated on DVD (I think Kino's DVD for The General is 26 fps). Technically, Metropolis had cue sheets marked for 28fps projection. This is probably just because of the urging to speed through the film.

There's so many conflicting notations on the projection speed, though. The orchestral score sheets were marked for 28fps. Enno Patalas (reconstructed the film) says it was 25fps. Martin Koeber (restorer) says it's 20fps, but that's a bit slow. The Murnau Foundation says it's 22fps. It's very unlikely 28fps was intended since the film looks completely ridiculous that way. Given the visual speeds and the time frame, it's 99% likely that Metropolis was intended to be projected at 22fps.

It's totally accurate to just eye the speed and look for what's natural. Too slow makes a film creep too much (like the 18fps Phantom of the Opera released on DVD from Image, before the 2-disc Milestone). Too fast makes action laughable, like Paramount's DVD of The Ten Commandments '23.
Post
#260048
Topic
Info Wanted: versions of Metropolis?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/260048/action/topic#260048
Time
Originally posted by: tweaker
Just a random note: While there are folks that argue the film should be viewed at about 18 fps (roughly the speed at which it was filmed), there is written evidence that it was always meant to be shown at around 24 fps (what was sometimes referred to as "sound speed").

Well, despite any written stuff, it's always a matter of looking at the film for what seems like natural speed. The rule of thumb for a late 1920s silent is usually 20-22fps. I'm fairly sure that 20fps works the best on the restored version.

Originally posted by: 5acrifice
I take it the original length version is not available?


Unfortunately, no. The new digital restoration is the most complete version we have now. It's unlikely we'll ever see a better cut since the new restoration already utilized film materials from every major archive in the entire world.
Post
#259824
Topic
The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259824/action/topic#259824
Time
Originally posted by: crazyrabbits
Originally posted by: What.Cobbler?
I take it that you meant an official Disney restoration when you said "Mark III"? I know we shouldn't expect anything better from Miramax!


I meant that OCP wont be around, because...well, you know.


Well, I'm sure others, as well as myself, will keep this thread going. Personally, I feel that a Mark III would be justified only if a fully progressive source can be found for the workprint in high quality, as well as a better print of the released version(s).

Once we're past that stuff, there's only new 35mm transferring, which is something Disney would only be able to afford and accomplish. Even if someone could get to an archive with a print (like the Library of Congress, which holds a reference 35mm print of Arabian Knight), they're not allowed to perform a video transfer without the permission of the copyright holder.

Post
#259755
Topic
"Banning of OCPMovie"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/259755/action/topic#259755
Time
In the case of his work for The Thief and the Cobbler, it has helped bring the film out from obscurity a bit. The only people in the industry he contacted and sent free discs to were those who worked on the film (or worked with Richard Williams). Openly distributing a bootleg and then meeting with a Disney executive is pretty gutsy, too. I don't like the idea of bootlegs except in the case where they're absolutely necessary. When a studio insists that the only thing they'll do with a film is release a $30 pan & scan, VHS quality, bare-bones, heavily altered version... I have to side with the bootleggers.

As for Star Wars, I have no idea of the details surrounding that stuff. However, ocp never had any problems with me putting the Recobbled Cut on GBStv, nor on Google Video (which you can actually download, along with a lot of other extra stuff he supplied to me on DVD-R). I gave him donations since I'd have to fork over $30 for the crappy "official" disc anyways. He's made a lot of people happy with the RC and I think internet drama is ridiculous.