- Post
- #194030
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194030/action/topic#194030
- Time
OgOggilby
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- Post
- #194022
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/194022/action/topic#194022
- Time
Originally posted by: tweaker
I'd also really, really like to know what programs and filters you're using. That looks excellent. My only complaint is that the hair looks a little blurred, but I have a hunch that that is the case with the transfer itself, and it just isn't as noticeable with it being all washed out. Either way, won't be able to tell when it's in motion. FANTASTIC JOB.
Tell those pussies at Disney to suck it.
Also, just out of curiosity, what's the runtime on the Recobbled rough cut?
I'd also really, really like to know what programs and filters you're using. That looks excellent. My only complaint is that the hair looks a little blurred, but I have a hunch that that is the case with the transfer itself, and it just isn't as noticeable with it being all washed out. Either way, won't be able to tell when it's in motion. FANTASTIC JOB.
Tell those pussies at Disney to suck it.
Also, just out of curiosity, what's the runtime on the Recobbled rough cut?
Well, Disney should make this film a priority, but I'd imagine that it would be a major restoration project on the level of Lawrence of Arabia. The film has the potential to be a very successful box office hit, as well as an award-winner. All it would take is Disney to do it right. But they aren't, yet, so this is why a Recobbled Cut is happening.
- Post
- #193951
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/193951/action/topic#193951
- Time
- Post
- #193938
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/193938/action/topic#193938
- Time
http://rapidshare.de/files/15620185/Thief_Bump_2.nsv.html
(You need Winamp to play it)
We just aired it on www.gbs.tv (GBS-TV) and it instantly got 5/5 ratings.
By the way, as I was looking for the clip, I noticed this:
I haven't laughed so hard for a while. Ken Harris was a genius.
- Post
- #193887
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/193887/action/topic#193887
- Time
Now all the Arabian Knight/The Princess and the Cobbler voice talent is listed under "re-edited version" and all the original cast is listed! Now we just need to wait on the rest of the artist credits and the title change... good riddance to bad rubbish if they get rid of the Arabian Knight title and drop it into the alternate titles list. Fans can do their part, too. Add quotes, trivia, etc. Goofs would be a good idea in order to expose all the drafting mistakes in the Calvert inks like the glaucoma eyes.
Also, a few updates...
The Thief Who Never Gave Up, A Christmas Carol, and the camera tests reel are uploaded onto the GBS-TV server. I decided to not touch the Recobbled Cut at all, so it'll be as-is on the rough cut. Whenever the newer version is ready, we can just switch it out.
As for the other stuff:
I'm going to do an overhaul on Animating Art tonight. The only problem is that someone checked out Pinocchio from the library, so I'm going to have to wait. However, I'm going to look through all my other Disney DVD's and hope the clips exist in a documentary or something. I'm hoping to have the reconstruction done by tonight. Tomorrow, I'll do I Drew Roger Rabbit, which ought to be easier.
Since the Animating Art source is so poor, would it be a big deal if I reduced the picture and windowboxed it in order to make the image look a little better?
- Post
- #193728
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/193728/action/topic#193728
- Time
The whole marathon is SATURDAY NIGHT, which is MARCH 18th. Saturday gets a higher viewership, so that's why. However, only the Recobbled Cut will be re-aired at the same time on Sunday. It's also worth noting that they can be re-aired any time afterwards.
Also, I found that the version comparison would be kind of boring, but I might do it as an extra for your DVD set. I finally sat down to watch the song scenes and now I can't get the Brigand song out of my head (don't worry, I won't shoot myself until AFTER the marathon). So, I'm thinking it'll be more effective to show Arabian Knight right afterward to drive home the complete molestation made to the film.
I forgot about A Christmas Carol....
Anyway, here's the new schedule:
6:30 PM - A Christmas Carol
7:00 PM - The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Cut
8:30 PM - Arabian Knight
9:45 PM - The Thief Who Never Gave Up documentary
10:40 PM - Commercial Reel and Pink Panther titles
11:15 PM - I Drew Roger Rabbit
11:45 PM - Animating Art
Also, there will be a few surprises. I'll insert the pencil tests reel, trailers, and maybe the Charge of the Light Brigade animation as filler. Basically, keep 6:30-12:30 open.
It'll be re-aired on Sunday at 7:00 PM, too. More showings if it's a really big hit.
One other thing... during the pencil test reel, there's an excellent quality clip of the "Dance of the One-Eyes" music. Where did you find it?
- Post
- #193199
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/193199/action/topic#193199
- Time
By the way, if I can speed through the re-edits of the two documentaries, I think the "Evening with Richard Williams" can happen by Sunday.
- Post
- #192930
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/192930/action/topic#192930
- Time
Also, it depends if I can make it look good, but I might be re-animating the end shot so it can be a commercial bump for GBSTV. Basically, using Photoshop to paste "GBS . TV" over "THE END" and try to animate it so it looks like The Thief is stealing the letters.
- Post
- #192884
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/192884/action/topic#192884
- Time
Also, the pencil tests are facinating. I take it that they were shot directly on PAL video?
Tonight and tomorrow, I'm going to be busy with finishing up some work (college midterms, yay) but I'll have a lot of free time for about a week or two afterwards. I'll get Animating Art and I Drew Roger Rabbit cleaned up and reconstructed. I'll also copy the two docs on RR on Disney's DVD, as well as the trailer.
Basically here's an outline of what I'm putting in the intro:
- Progression over the years
- Visual comparisons (pencil tests, storyboards, finished Williams photography, Calvert inked/painted Williams pencils, brand new animation based on storyboards, totally original sequences, edit differences)
- Audio comparisons (workprint vs. Princess vs. Arabian Knight vs. Calvert workprint, music choices)
- Stuff on the restoration
I'm writing out a script for the narration and I'll post it here before recording it.
However, I'm making it as a companion to The Thief Who Never Gave Up. This way, there's no redundancy and the intro simply puts the Recobbled Cut into perspective.
- Post
- #192875
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/192875/action/topic#192875
- Time
I watched nearly all of it... I'm just blown away by how well you integrated everything. It's just a pity that all this great footage is hidden behind the credits! At least it probably means that all of the 35mm negatives exist somewhere since the superimposition would mean a dupe negative was used. I'm sure they kept all the trims and deleted material archived.
Now I'm going to work on getting it ready for GBS-TV. If you don't mind, I'm going to have tomake some minor changes in order to adapt it for the small resolution Winamp stream. First, I'm going to adjust the contrast a bit in order to take out the blown-out whites to an extent. I've been able to adjust a lot of archive.org stuff and it came out fine.
Second, I'm going to create an intro explaining the history of the film and the different versions. It'll probably run about 8-10 minutes. This way, no one has to be subjected to the awful music numbers in complete form. It'll cover the processes needed to create the Recobbled cut, why animation differs, and comparisons between soundtracks. Sort of like one of those introductions on a Criterion DVD combined with one of their restoration comparisons (for example, there's a 20 min. featurette covering multiple versions of "M" on their 2-disc set). Th
Also, the end credits won't be that legible, so I think I might need to make an alternate end credits (using stills) at the end with only essential items. However, there will be a quick montage of the end titles in the intro as examples of the changes. Would it be possible for you to design a still (or animated if you want) logo for the front for "RICHARD WILLIAMS STUDIO Ltd." to go before the title?
Oh, one more thing... once I finish reconstructing Animating Art, I'll do the same thing with I Drew Roger Rabbit.
- Post
- #192845
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/192845/action/topic#192845
- Time
First off, I'm suspecting the Japanese DVD simply used a 35mm print that had been projected. This would explain the unusual amount of print damage and poor contrast. 35mm theatrical prints are balanced a certain way to work with projectors - nearly all studios have custom-made interpositives made for video transfers.
I see why the whole Maiden scene was cut out since part of it was unfinished.
One really amazing thing I noticed was that the original editing structure of the intended version is magnificent. It's weird how the altered versions would snip just a little off shots. I dunno why they'd alter some shots that were originally unbroken into separate shots. However, a lot of parts from the released versions in terms of sound are very good. The sound effects and music in the opening are appropriate. However, I don't like how they boosted Vincent Price's voice... I don't know if this is because of the Japanese DVD, but judging from the fidelity of his voice, they really didn't need to add so much bass. I'm really shocked that either version cut out a lot of totally finished animation (like the wounded soldier climbing up onto the horse and the thief attempting to steal Yum-Yum's shoes). You'd think they'd use every bit of animation as possible (finished and pencil). Especially since totally new animation would be more expensive than simply inking and painting stuff already drawn. Oh well, it's not like the post-Williams work followed the best logic anyways.
I'm extremely impressed with how well you able to merge everything together. It's facinating to see a shot cut so perfectly to the frame. In this version, you can follow thing so much better... I see how much of a bastard (as RW even said) Zig-Zag is. Seriously, this is portfolio material. It shows how much of a great film it is, as well as your excellent editing. The whole sequence with the Thief attempting to steal the balls, Zig-Zag insisting Nod's dream isn't serious, and Tack watching intercut together is terrific. Although, the "I just have this feeling" shot is hilarious because it's so horribly off-model. The attempts to re-create the style of the original backgrounds are laughable too. It makes me wonder if Calvert's people even saw the finished footage.
I love seeing all these details finally... like the Thief's smug look when he finally gets to the golden balls.
And yes, I'll do the Williams Evening multiple times. I got a ton of work to do for classes tonight, but I'm spending any free time getting stuff put together. This rough cut will be just fine for the GBS-TV initial broadcast.
- Post
- #192648
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/192648/action/topic#192648
- Time
I'll have to take a look at the materials... I think I'll do the GBS-TV airing with the newest cut you sent out so I can go ahead and get viewers while it's still fresh in mind.
I will say this, I'll make sure the Richard Williams Evening is well publicized... I want as many people exposed to the film as possible.
- Post
- #192571
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/192571/action/topic#192571
- Time
To get to the trailer, you have to move around the button's on Benny's dashbord. You should highlight an arrow over some meter and click it. It's not in the best condition, but it's a good trailer. If you want, I can include it on the Animating Art restoration DVD.
FYI, the first disc isn't a total loss. The documentary for kids on RR has some more Richard Williams interviews, as well as all three RR cartoons released afterwards (Tummy Trouble in front of Honey I Shrunk the Kids... forgot the other two). In fact, all three cartoons are 1.85:1 anamorphic widescreen and have 5.1 sound! Not that it means anything for this project since they're not RWS productions. Still, it's nice that they kept the excellent production values and fluid animation style.
If you haven't seen the making-of on the 2nd disc yet, you'll love it. Williams has some interviews and you get to see a lot of raw animation. They would use B&W blow-up photographs to use as layout when animating so everything would line up.
Oh, also, I'm going to be a little busy this week, but I should get Animating Art finished by the end of the week. I'm having to re-do a few clips because I forgot to turn off cropping settings meant for Moving Day (it was windowboxed, unlike any of the other film clips).
I picked up the new remastered DVD for The Return of the Pink Panther and if you don't have it already, I can capture the opening animation. Same thing for Strikes Again if you want. Both of which are the great 16x9 remasters on disc.
And I tried to find out what the source was for the opening workprint music... I ran it by my uncle, who has a music major... he suspected it was Ralph Vaughan Williams (I thought this too), but it didn't match any works he could find! After seeing the Thames doc, perhaps it's possible that Williams had original music composed and orchestrated as he went? I mean, he was supervising effects mixing for individual scenes in 1982!
I also ordered The Animator's Survival Kit in paperback. Only $19 on Amazon.com!
- Post
- #191801
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/191801/action/topic#191801
- Time
However, they were speedy with adding technical stuff (Panavision, workprint runtime, movie connection to Fantasia). I guess it's not high on anyone's priority.
- Post
- #191039
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/191039/action/topic#191039
- Time
http://media.putfile.com/Animating-Art-Restoration-Demo
The compression is just a factor in this sample clip... the real thing has almost no artifacts at all (other than those already in the DVD or the Animating Art video). The doc audio needs work, but I'll do that once I get everything edited back together since I'll have to equalize everything.
By the way, is there a source for Raggedy Ann & Andy in the original 2.35:1 Panavision format?
Oh, also... I realized that the pencil test of "Thief" appears in the workprint. Could you send me the clip of Phido grudgingly stepping onto Zig-Zag's cane from the better workprint or should I just wait for the materials you're sending? I'm going to have to wait for the Pinocchio clips anyways.
- Post
- #190793
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/190793/action/topic#190793
- Time
[URL=http://imageshack.us]
[/URL] - Post
- #190689
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/190689/action/topic#190689
- Time
You know, even if you're constantly re-doing this, you're learning all sorts of stuff as you go. It's interesting that your reconstructing mirrors the creation of the actual film. It's a story of making, unmaking, and remaking.
By the way, the M2V of Animating Art cuts off during the clip of the Queen finding out about the heart (from Snow White). If you can just send the other half (starting after that clip), I can simply edit the two together.
By the way, I'm doing some cleanup... I have some good noise reduction filters that will help get rid a lot of the noise. It'll create some smearing, but I'm doing it selectively so that pencil tests and the like won't look bad. I'm also converting it to progressive 24fps. It won't look perfect, but neither does the original tape!
Here's a before/after comparison:
- Post
- #190000
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/190000/action/topic#190000
- Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
>>Thanks for the "Death and Destruction" clip! What happened to the color/contrast, though?
The Arabian Knight DVD with its blown out contrast ruined certain shots, this being one of them. Some of the early Zigzag animation seems to have had lighter colors used anyway ...
This clip didn't upload all the way. Screw this ... I have to mail all this material to you. The complete audio is in there anyway.
And yes, the doc has an abrupt start.
>>Thanks for the "Death and Destruction" clip! What happened to the color/contrast, though?
The Arabian Knight DVD with its blown out contrast ruined certain shots, this being one of them. Some of the early Zigzag animation seems to have had lighter colors used anyway ...
This clip didn't upload all the way. Screw this ... I have to mail all this material to you. The complete audio is in there anyway.
And yes, the doc has an abrupt start.
I'll be able to create a torrent to send the stuff back, at least. I think I can correct the color on it to an extent. For the banner I put in my signature on SA, I wanted a shot of Zig-Zag, but he was reddish - just a quick fine-tuning in Photoshop fixed it (although, a tiny bit oversaturated). Then again, everything has this neon glow to the colors.
- Post
- #189989
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/189989/action/topic#189989
- Time
This has to be one of the best shots in the film, in terms of character animation. I love how their expressions are constantly moving.
By the way, does your Animating Art have an abrupt start? Should the Thames logo be placed at the front, followed by a fade-in to the Chinese Dance from Fantasia? I can just steal the Thames logo from the other doc if needed.
- Post
- #189853
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/189853/action/topic#189853
- Time
Originally posted by: ocpmovie
No prob with that Alex - been sending the full load to plenty of other people already! It'll probably be 8 discs or something.
>. You know, if I gave you the username and password for my website's FTP, do you think you could upload Animating Art (your print) to my server?
Yes I could. As an M2V/AC3.
>> Too bad they couldn't keep it uncensored, nor keep Deems Taylor's voice (hmm, fan edit time)!
I know, jesus christ. Fantasia needs a Classic Edition. Cos it's a classic, y'know.
No prob with that Alex - been sending the full load to plenty of other people already! It'll probably be 8 discs or something.
>. You know, if I gave you the username and password for my website's FTP, do you think you could upload Animating Art (your print) to my server?
Yes I could. As an M2V/AC3.
>> Too bad they couldn't keep it uncensored, nor keep Deems Taylor's voice (hmm, fan edit time)!
I know, jesus christ. Fantasia needs a Classic Edition. Cos it's a classic, y'know.
Ok, emailed the password and stuff.
It's rumored that we'll finally get a "Masterpiece edition" of Fantasia next year. As long as they allow you to watch it with all the existing Deems Taylor narration (maybe hire a better voice actor to re-dub the lost parts) and have the 30 seconds of the Pastoral segment uncut! It would also be nice to finally have all the extras contained on one disc instead of having the making-of take up room on Fantasia's movie disc and having all the other stuff share the bonus DVD with Fantasia 2000 extras.
What's ironic is that in the bonus DVD notes section, they openly admit to the past censorship, but state the DVD version is uncut! I'm guessing it had to be a last-minute change... there are not any comments on the alterations on the commentary.
- Post
- #189784
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/189784/action/topic#189784
- Time
You know, if I gave you the username and password for my website's FTP, do you think you could upload Animating Art (your print) to my server? This way, I can just drop in the clips on my end, then re-upload it finished back to my FTP. If you can just state what video/audio specs you need for using it ported to DVD, I can get it totally ready. Watching Animating Art... the stuff on Art's childhood is depressing. Lost four siblings and father became paralyzed. Are we feeling happy?
Just looking at the raw VOB of the Chinese Dance (which opens the documentary), Disney's DVD still looks stunning. Too bad they couldn't keep it uncensored, nor keep Deems Taylor's voice (hmm, fan edit time)!
- Post
- #189524
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/189524/action/topic#189524
- Time
You know... if you can get the raw Animation Art to me, I can do the "reconstruction." I really want to try out editing something complex now that I've learned to do a lot of stuff with Sony Vegas 6. As for the audio, I can get the audio to dissolve from the clips to the video mix perfectly. It might be easier considering there's a lot of clips.
- Post
- #189419
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/189419/action/topic#189419
- Time
Here is
By the way, I'm preparing the NSV videos for GBSTV broadcast (that's the format we use). A Christmas Carol converted BEAUTIFULLY. Thanks to the style, you can hardly see any compression artifacts, despite being around 140 kbps video! I did a really speedy encode on Arabian Knight. I simply too the torrent laserdisc version, deinterlaced it, corrected the contrast and color, and letterboxed it (we have to show everything 4x3). I used a low compression bitrate, so it looks soft, blurry, and compressed. After all, who cares how THAT version looks?
Both ACC and the Thames doc look splendid in their NSV encodes. The clips of "Thief" in the doc look as good as the Miramax footage! Of course, when downsizing to 320x240, anything can look better.
Here's a list of the clips that I'll have to source from:
- Chinese Dance from Fantasia
- Moving Day (Mickey Color Vol. 1) [Goofy pushing piano into truck
- Queen holding minichest "Magic Mirror on the Wall..." from Snow White
- Dumbo (Stork on cloud)
- Country Mouse (snapping finger, hitting jello)
- Russian Dance from Fantasia Last 30-40 sec.
- Three Pigs - from end
- Three Pigs - Wolf climbing down chimmney
- Goofy's Moving Day (another push in from interior, this time glaring back)
- Live-action tests for Snow White (supplements)
- Snow White - whistle while you work
- Snow White - One Song
- Snow White - doubly shure
- Pinochhio clocks
- Pinocchio "just the name"
- Animation Strike
- Thief "Destruction and Death"
Not only can I get the animation clips, but I can also get clips of live-action reference, as well as some footage of the strike.
Maybe someone else can provide the Pinocchio clips... I won't be back in Decatur until next Sunday. Also, I take it that you'll drop in that one Thief clip in letterboxed form? Seeing it in pan & scan is a headache. Some of the doc audio and clip audio overlaps, so you might have to do some creative sound editing.
- Post
- #188800
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/188800/action/topic#188800
- Time
You know, besides all the work that the picture will need on a true Disney restoration... I'm really concerned with how the sound will be handled. Even if it's a temp track, every bit of music in the workprint fits perfectly. The sound effects may need work and I'd imagine the voices would need sweetening. A lot of restorations end up having a lot of unnecessary modifications (like the 5.1 mix made for the Vertigo restoration). On the other hand, there's some 5.1 mixes that are completely true to the original mono track like Snow White's 5.1 track or Warner's excellent 5.1 remix of North by Northwest.
It makes me wonder if Disney would go for a full 5.1 mix. If all the separate voice recordings, music tracks, and effects exist in isolated form, they could create a terrific mix... but I don't want to hear something like Miramax's mix that is completely overblown. Maybe just keeping it mono would be a good idea, although, would Richard Williams intend for the final version to be mono... plain stereo, or even 5.1?
Finally, I'm convinced that the temp music for "One-Eye Dance" and "March of the One-Eyes" is original music from Richard Williams' jazz band. The poor audio quality on the old workprint was too distorted to tell, but with the better fidelity, it really sounds like a small jazz sextet. It's obvious because both tracks are brass and drums only. However, I suspect the opening music during the narration is something composed by Ralph Vaughan Williams. Then, the rest of the music sounds like it's synthesizer. There's also a few sections that sound like classical inserted between parts.
If you can get any confirmation from any of the people you've been contacting to get something concrete, that would be awesome. I'd really love to have the original source music in CD-quality if it's non-original.
- Post
- #188633
- Topic
- The Thief and the Cobbler: Recobbled Director's Cut (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/188633/action/topic#188633
- Time
