That’s the eternal refrain for the ST, isn’t it? It’s astounding that there was just no plan.
It also helps that there was at least a rough plan for the prequels, regardless of their eventual execution. Anakin’s fraught relationship with Obi-wan, the loss of his mother, the forbidden love…these storytelling decisions are in service to his character and in the hands of a better director they could have been realized brilliantly. On the other hand, the storytelling decisions of TROS act in opposition to Rey’s character and actively undermine it.
One caveat however - Anakin’s murder of the Tuskens does turn Anakin from sympathetically flawed to ‘bad apple’, but at least it’s not the cornerstone of the story like Rey Palpatine. That puts AOTC above TROS for me, if only slightly.
This is NOT intended to represent a reservation I have about using the Falcon ending shot. This is such a nerdy thing to say that it would have rightfully been shouted down by people if this had been in the movie.
But…
The Falcon leaping right into hyperspace within a few seconds of taking off makes Han’s efforts to escape from Mos Eisley in ANH seem overly cautionary. (Doesn’t seem like entering hyperspace from within an atmosphere or planet’s gravity would normally be a good idea.)
BUT, it’s a perfect visual ending for the story. Just felt obliged to throw a neckbeard comment in for devil’s advocacy.
“From inside the atmosphere, is that even possible?”
“I never ask that question until after I’ve tried it.”
In this case I wouldn’t sweat the details since it’s actually in character for Han’s ship at this point. And as was said above, the limiting factor in the Mos Eisley escape was the Hyperspace calculation, something that isn’t at issue here.
I prefer the movement of poppasketti’s take but I prefer the model work of your take, snooker.
Collaboration, anyone?
Now that is beautiful! I don’t really have anything else to say other than based on every source I’ve seen that just looks ‘right’.
Spoiler alert:
The Jedi spirits could really clog up those Star Destroyer super cannons and the thousand ships could Holdo manure the Sith colosseum.
Ghost Yoda could really do some damage with his Storm ability.
Jedi spirits show up to help Poe, and a fleet of ships to help Rey.
Is it weird that I can see this actually being more effective?
I guess since I’m one of the few people on this website who doesn’t hate TROS, I should just shut up. But I recommend that a lot of the hardcore haters should try and watch it again. If you’ve already watched it twice or more, but still hate it, then I understand.
I saw it twice in theaters. The first time struck me as so bad it was good and as I kept thinking about it that night it became more and more hilarious. Literal side-shaking laughter for a good hour that night.
The second time really just cemented the impression from the first time except that it was less funny.
I was on record here in saying that I would have counted this movie as a win as long as we got an adventure with the entire crew for the first time, and the trailers were a cause for hope. There they all were in the Falcon, there they were in the desert, and for the record that’s the best part of the movie for me. On a surface level their banter is fun and it checks all the boxes for an adventure. The problem is that the entire exercise is tangential to the plot and, crucially, doesn’t move Finn, Poe, Chewie, or Threepio forward as characters. The main plot would have been entirely unaffected had Rey gone alone. So even the sure thing of the group adventure was ultimately a failure. Add to that Rey Palpatine, Sheev again, and the Dumb Sith Fleet and the movie becomes a complete waste of time.
It’s truly mind boggling to me that someone could have two problems with this movie, and one of them is that a specific kind of TIE fighter doesn’t have hyperdrive. Like, you realize how ridiculous that sounds right?
The Space Shuttle Atlantis uncouples from the ISS at the conclusion of another successful mission. On the other side of the space station, a VW Beetle from Russia fires its retro rockets on approach.
Not the same thing. Star Wars isn’t real life, and you don’t need to read an obscure EU book to know that a VW Beetle can’t fly in space. I’m not bothered by it at all, and I love the imagery of an X-Wing and a TIE fighter parked next to each other. It really helps illustrate Rey and Kylo coming together.
Obi-wan says that this TIE fighter is specifically short range in the original movie, no EU required.
But that implies there are also long range fighters. It was only the EU that established none of the Imperial fighters can jump to lightspeed, so I don’t see the problem. And like I said before, I think the idea of “plot holes” as an objective measure of quality is dumb in general.
Obi-wan was commenting on the size of the fighter as a measure of its range. The EU established that Vader’s larger TIE variant could go to Hyperspace, so it’s not a question of type but of size.
Regardless, your overall point is correct. Plot holes don’t make a movie bad. Sometimes they can even help obscure problems in a movie. It’s something I’ve realized on my fanedit of TFA, that the more I fix the logical problems, the more the underlying soul of the movie comes to the surface. In a good film this can be a good thing, like in Adywan’s edits of the OT. In TFA however, the more I fix things the more a viewer can only focus on the core of the story, and there really isn’t much there. Once the superficial problems are gone the true inner hideousness is allowed to shine through.
We could endlessly argue about whether or not a TIE fighter could make it across the galaxy, but this discussion is only a distraction from the fact that the entire Rey/Kylo dynamic of the film is utter trash.
Douglas Adams summed up this style of movie-making far better in SLATFATF:
“In other words - and this is the rock-solid principle on which the whole of the Corporation’s Galaxywide success is founded - their fundamental design flaws are completely hidden by their superficial design flaws.”
It’s truly mind boggling to me that someone could have two problems with this movie, and one of them is that a specific kind of TIE fighter doesn’t have hyperdrive. Like, you realize how ridiculous that sounds right?
The Space Shuttle Atlantis uncouples from the ISS at the conclusion of another successful mission. On the other side of the space station, a VW Beetle from Russia fires its retro rockets on approach.
Not the same thing. Star Wars isn’t real life, and you don’t need to read an obscure EU book to know that a VW Beetle can’t fly in space. I’m not bothered by it at all, and I love the imagery of an X-Wing and a TIE fighter parked next to each other. It really helps illustrate Rey and Kylo coming together.
Obi-wan says that this TIE fighter is specifically short range in the original movie, no EU required. It’s like they chose the one ship that would make the least sense for the scene. Any other TIE variant and you could handwave it.
It’s truly mind boggling to me that someone could have two problems with this movie, and one of them is that a specific kind of TIE fighter doesn’t have hyperdrive. Like, you realize how ridiculous that sounds right?
The Space Shuttle Atlantis uncouples from the ISS at the conclusion of another successful mission. On the other side of the space station, a VW Beetle from Russia fires its retro rockets on approach.
It’s truly mind boggling to me that someone could have two problems with this movie, and one of them is that a specific kind of TIE fighter doesn’t have hyperdrive. Like, you realize how ridiculous that sounds right?
^^ 😃 yes! being this anal will end with someone working on edits of TROS for the next 20 years like saddo George Lucas in his basement. Take Obi-wans advice and “move along…”
Good advice. If anything, changing the specifics of this movie to make logical sense will just decrease the sense of overwhelming shlock, which is the only level on which I can enjoy this shitshow.
The Battle of Endor might not be the best example since it’s almost constant music even in the quieter Throne Room scenes. But you’re right, sometimes less is more, like for instance the last act of ANH. There is no music in the scenes leading up to the final battle because the filmmaker’s thought (rightly) that the absence of music would make its return much more powerful.
Nev, if you could change that shot what kind of ship would you change his to?
Imperial Shuttle.
The fins would be badly beat up and the top fin would be mostly missing. It would be a rusted, barely flyable piece of junk but it would have a hyperdrive. It would also have the thematic resonance of being the same type of ship that the redeemed Vader would have been on, had he survived. In this way Kylo is picking up his father’s story where it left off, in a way.
JEDIT: Now I almost want to do a mockup of the shot. Curse you, RL!
And also with you.
The other thing that bothered me, of all things, was that Kylo took a standard imperial TIE fighter, the kind they explicitly point out that has no hyperdrive in ANH, across the whole galaxy to Exogol. It’s particularly irksome because there are many other tiny details in the movie that show the filmmakers were really paying attention to little details (such as the way Kylo points just like Han). It’s a small detail but feels like a blatantly obvious oversight.
I’m glad someone else is bothered by this.
There’s potentially an explanation if he brings the entire Destroyer with him to the Endor system and he goes back to that after being redeemed to travel to Exegol. That would also explain why he thought he could fit both himself and Rey in his (presumably) single seat fighter. If I’m being particularly charitable I would surmise that maybe they established the Destroyer in the Endor system in an earlier cut but it was discarded for time.
But I’m not that charitable to this tragedy of a film.
Yeah, I figure that for color grading purposes there will be power windows, but I was under the impression that these are beyond even color grading and directly change the brightness and contrast of certain areas to make certain parts of the image ‘pop’ more for 3D.
I am now in contact with oohteedee and we’re talking about collaborating on v3.0 using his D+xy versions as a basis and despecializing them further.
I have said before that now that we have 4K77 and 4K83 as 100% true theatrical preservstions (with 4K80 hopefully coming soon) the focus of Despecialized can shift to being what a modern transfer of the movie, if the SE never existed, could be. This is why I don’t think power-windows, not 100% theatrically accurate grading or redone wipes and such are really a problem.
Color grading and recomposited wipes are a given for a modern transfer based on the original negatives, but power windows to differentiate foreground/background elements for 3D feels noticeably different, at least based on none’s comparisons.
I wouldn’t be too torn up if they appeared in 3.0, but it seems a shame. Is there any idea how many of these power windows exist in the OT?
The Despecialized edition v 2.1 had a particularly strong green hue, so it is a problem with grading.
https://i.imgur.com/ZK7UB6A.mp4
Idir, that video you shared regarding the score made me want to play around with some rescoring.
I wanted to play around with adding Chewie’s Theme from Solo to when Rey realizes he’s still alive. I also feel like this restore add a sense of relief for Rey, relief that she didn’t kill him.
I did three versions, back to back, and I didn’t remove the original score so you might still hear bits of it. Just a rough idea. Let me know if you guys like any or prefer a certain version.
Rescoring opens up so many opportunities, I’m digging the 2nd and 3rd version.
I think the third version bleeds too much into Threepio’s dialogue, but the second version really works for me.
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2020/05/04/taika-waititi-is-getting-his-own-star-wars-movie
So this is nice, if it happens.
From here: https://imgur.com/gallery/pHo3E0W
TBF, nobody has freaking arc in this film.
Poe’s arc… from hothead flyboy to responsible general.
Finn’s arc… from victim of the empire and all alone, to force sensitive leader who teams up with other victims to topple it.
Rey’s arc… from someone who is lost, drawn to darkness, and doesn’t know her place or have a family to someone who chooses good, has a family, and presumably becomes the leader of a new Jedi Order.If that’s not an arc… I don’t know what an arc is then.
Maybe it’s just not the arc you would have written.
All of those arcs seem to have been addressed to my satisfaction in TFA and/or TLJ. At least one twice already.
Exactly. JJ had no idea what to do with his own characters.
Very cool